Mohamad Maliki Bin Osman
Singapore
“Just a quick response to the question on JKJU. Indeed, we continue to pay attention to the health of the Malay/Muslim community. I mentioned earlier while we have been making progress, there have been some areas that we continue to want to improve on, particularly, increasing in our rates of participation in signing up for Healthier SG, p…”
“00 pm (In English): Mr Chairman, beyond our shores or closer to home, efforts like M3's Aid for Gaza and our initiatives for local communities in the M3@Towns show how our acts of care and contribution, as donors or volunteers, and how we can connect with one another to do so, can make a difference to those around us.”
“The other dimension is that having Dian ambassadors help with the cultural dimension, because not all family coaches from ComLink necessarily understand the dynamics of Malay culture, the nuances, and so the Dian ambassadors help them and tell them that these are the ways in which we can connect with Malay families in a manner that will g…”
“This will also mitigate the impulse to normalise or chase the extremes in the contest to circulate ever more startling videos and content. While firm actions will be taken to address the parties involved in each incident, the school will also use the opportunity as a teaching moment for all its students.”
“Sir, I agree with the Member that we have to strike a balance. We cannot just swing one way or the other. Just to assure the Member that MOE did commission a National Institute of Education study – it was a two-year study which was commissioned in September 2022, but it is not completed yet.”
“Mr Speaker, the short answer is yes. We welcome anyone who is keen to join the SPED sector. We know this SPED sector is a very challenging sector to be in. It requires determination. It requires passion. It is a calling.”
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“Sir, as I have mentioned earlier, given the description by Mr Low, one of the options that we will offer them is the interim rental housing. This is a short-term rental housing to help them with accommodation if, as Mr Low mentioned, they really do not have any other rental accommodation options. Of course, we would prefer that they continue to stay with their family, if they have family members to support them. While they are staying in the interim rental housing, we will look and explore other possibilities, like how we can support and help them. The reasons why they are not earning or not working will have to be explored. These are situations where we need case management by the social service sector to be able to help some of these families. I think if Mr Low has a specific case in mind and would like to refer it to us, we would be more than glad to review the case. PNEUMOCOCCAL VACCINE (Inclusion in National Immunisation Programme) 13. Dr Fatimah Lateef asked the Minister for Health in view of the increasing cost to society as a result of invasive pneumococcal disease with increasing multi-drug resistance and higher case fatalities, whether the Ministry will consider to include the pneumococcal vaccine in the National Immunisation Programme.”
“Secondly, we will also refer them to the CDCs to see whether they can improve on their earning capacity so that they are able to get another loan from HDB subsequently. The other alternative that we have is to offer them interim rental housing which is a scheme that HDB has put in place where the managing agents of HDB flats manage some of these flats and they will refer these families for interim housing. We do not want the families to be entrenched in such interim housing but it is meant for temporary accommodation while they work towards longer-term solutions. So, effectively, there are options available for some of these families. If they really cannot find other options, we will consider them for rental flats.”
“Sir, I understand Ms Denise Phua's concern and in fact, I think many Members of the House have come across many similar cases where residents came to them and said that HDB forced them or asked them to sell their flats. Sir, HDB's intention is really not to displace families. HDB's intention is to help families manage their arrear situation, and many of them have accumulated their arrears quite significantly. What HDB is trying to do is to prevent them from accumulating their arrears further so that they do not come into a situation where their outstanding loan becomes larger than their original loan, which means that they have accumulated so much interest that the loan has become larger or that the property value is lower than the outstanding loan, which means they are in negative equity. So when HDB advises them to sell their flats, it is effectively to advise them to downgrade hopefully to a flat that is more affordable to them. How does HDB help them? They will look at some of the possible alternatives after that. Firstly, we look at the possibility of granting them another loan. If they are really in financial difficulties, HDB is prepared to give them another loan to downgrade. Some of the challenges that these families have are that their income is not high enough or they are not able to afford a loan that will allow them to purchase another flat, which means that they are not ready to own another home, as I mentioned earlier in the reply. As such, we look at other options. Do they have family members who are able to accommodate them while they try to save to improve on their financial situation and purchase another flat?”
“The flats were subsequently put up for sale under our balloting exercise.”
“I should stress that rental flats are heavily subsidised and should be reserved for only the truly needy with no alternative accommodation. Mr Zainudin Nordin also asked about the HDB Loan Eligibility (HLE) Letter. This was introduced in January 2007 to encourage financial prudence and forward planning among flat buyers. To date, 8% of HLE applications have been rejected. A third of those rejected were financially not ready to commit to a home loan. The rest were ineligible for a HDB loan.”
“Sir, both Mr Zainudin Nordin and Ms Denise Phua asked about assistance for HDB lessees affected by compulsory acquisition due to mortgage arrears. HDB has spared no effort to help households in difficulty arrive at a financially sustainable solution. Some of the solutions that HDB explore with these households include: (a) subletting a spare room; (b) including working family members to share the loan burden; and (c) reducing the monthly instalments by extending the loan repayment period. Notwithstanding these options, if they still cannot afford to keep their flat, HDB will help them to downgrade, by providing them an additional loan that they can afford. However, despite providing ample time and assistance, HDB occasionally encounters lessees who are not willing to work towards a sustainable financial solution. In such cases, HDB has no choice but to undertake compulsory acquisition but, only as a last resort, to prevent their debt from accumulating further. Even after HDB issues its letter of intent to compulsorily acquire the flat, HDB will still allow the lessee to sell his flat in the open market if he is serious about doing so without further delay. This is evident from the small number of flats recovered by HDB compared with the number of accounts in arrears. Since 2007, HDB has recovered 1,260 flats due to arrears. This is 0.3% of the total number of outstanding HDB loans. Compulsory acquisition will continue to be our last resort, to be used only when necessary. We will ensure that those affected by compulsory acquisition have alternative accommodation, including a rental flat if necessary. Indeed, most of the 1,260 cases were allocated a rental flat as they have no other viable option.”
“Sir, may I take Question Nos. 11 and 12 together as they are related?”
“I thank the Member for the suggestion. We will certainly do more to especially educate rental flat applicants or even current lessees who are thinking of selling their flats because the eligibility criteria have changed quite significantly since February. We will improve on efforts in reaching out to these households and informing them of the new criteria. HDB FLATS (Number repossessed by HDB) 11. Mr Zainudin Nordin asked the Minister for National Development (a) how many flats have been repossessed by HDB in the last three years and how many more is HDB expecting to repossess; (b) what are the follow up actions to assist the affected families; and (c) since the introduction of the HDB Loan Eligibility scheme how many applicants have been rejected and what were the main reasons for their rejection. 12. Ms Denise Phua Lay Peng asked the Minister for National Development if priority can be granted to rental flat applications by applicants who had to force-sell their flats due to financial hardship and high arrears with HDB.”
“Sir, indeed that is the plan. We recognise that whilst they stay in rental flats, they should not be entrenched in rental flats, especially for work-able individuals or households with work-able individuals. And that is why I said in my response earlier, especially for the younger households, we work with the CDCs. In fact, we also work with the Family Service Centres to refer these cases, who have potential to actually gain better income, to upgrade themselves, so that home ownership becomes the end point for them. And that is why we also put in place the two-year term tenancies, so that every two years, we review the cases to ensure that they continue to work towards upgrading themselves, to ensure that home ownership becomes a possibility for most of them. Even for those who have downgraded, meaning that they have sold their flats and they really need rental flats, we do not see rental flats as the end point for them, but it is transitional. Hopefully, they can continue to improve their circumstances and, therefore, move up and go for another home ownership flat.”
“Examples of successful projects include the Little Tao Shu – The Warrior Boy which has won the US-based iParenting Media Award; The Home Song Stories has received seven nominations at the Golden Horse Awards; and I Got Rocket – an animated TV series has won an Emmy Award for 3D Animated TV Series in 2008. Our locally made productions through the support of SCREEN actually had made headway internationally. As of 31st March 2009, more than 1,000 full-time equivalent jobs were created under SCREEN, with $164.8 million committed by international and local production houses to be spent in Singapore. Through SCREEN, MDA has helped to build up a core group of local TV, film and animation companies which own or co-own intellectual property and these companies are capable of producing top quality projects with leading international players.”
“Under the Media 21 Blueprint, MDA established the Scheme for Co-Investment in Exportable Content (SCREEN) to better ensure our own local media sector and the industry can gain a larger share of the production and post production work done in Singapore. MDA adopted a co-investment approach instead of just simply giving a direct grant or subsidy through SCREEN for the purpose of reducing market distortion. AGO reported that $9.89 million of revenue was outstanding to MDA from the 46 projects observed under the SCREEN. MDA would like to explain that this $9.89 million is actually a forecast or projected but yet-to-be-realised revenue from the 46 projects. Based on the media industrial norm, it will usually take a few years for these projects to yield their actual revenue. So far, some of these projects have already produced about $130,000 which is due to MDA as at the end of June this year. MDA is currently taking steps to collect this amount from the relevant project owners. MDA aims to complete this collection by the end of 2009. MDA will also further monitor closely the development of all the other 46 projects and will initiate action to collect the revenues whenever they are due. In terms of returns and the benefits from the SCREEN initiative, it is actually a programme that is conceived mainly as a capacity building tool to boost our local media sector. In the past three years, SCREEN has raised the profile of Singapore as an emerging creative hub with more than 180 co-production projects made, sold, distributed or broadcasted in more than 50 countries.”
“The Parliamentary Secretary to the Acting Minister for Information, Communications and the Arts (Mr Sam Tan Chin Siong) (for the Acting Minister for Information, Communications and the Arts): For Mr Baey Yam Keng's question, I would like to explain that the $6.06 million are actually not cases of over-collection but rather they are un-refunded vehicle radio and household TV licence fees. Unclaimed refunds for vehicle licences make up about 85% of the 684,000 cases with TV licences the remaining 15%. Most car owners and car dealers do not actively seek refund of their vehicle licence from MDA after their vehicles are transferred or deregistered as the pro-rated refund amount is quite small. Almost half (48%) of these 684,000 cases have outstanding refunds only below $2.50, while the rest of the cases of outstanding refunds are mostly below $20. For household TV licences, property owners have similarly not sought refunds for the TV licence cancellations. Since the audit by AGO, MDA has refunded $2.3 million of the earlier unclaimed amount of $6.06 million. To clear the rest of the outstanding cases amounting to about $3.8 million, an automated process to proactively refund excess payment and an auto-posting of undue claims to MOF’s website on unclaimed public monies will be implemented by October this year. Previous owners of houses or vehicles which have changed ownership may refer to www.unclaimedmonies.gov.sg or approach the MDA for licence fee refunds if they have not done so. And now I would like to respond to Ms Audrey Wong's question.”
“Sir, I think, as far as Town Councils are concerned, they are the ones responsible for the management and maintenance of the common spaces. We will leave it to the Town Councils to see whether it is befitting for them to put up these notices. We have seen Town Councils put up different types of notices along void deck spaces. We have seen "No Playing Soccer", "No Cycling", different kinds of posters being put up to remind residents. Being a local issue, we would probably want to leave it to the Town Councils to see fit what kinds of notices to put up. There is nothing stopping Town Councils from putting up the notices that specifically remind residents of certain offences that they will be committing should they violate some of these bye-laws that are within the Town Councils Act. Column No : 1127 RADIO AND TV LICENCE FEES 8. Mr Baey Yam Keng asked the Acting Minister for Information, Communications and the Arts (a) if the Ministry has identified the lapses in the fee collection process which resulted in the over-collection of $6.06 million in radio and TV licence fees from about 684,000 households since 2005; (b) what steps it will take to correct this and prevent future mistakes; and (c) how and by when the money will be refunded to the affected households and parties. 9. Ms Audrey Wong Wai Yen asked the Acting Minister for Information, Communications and the Arts in view of lapses in the administration of the Scheme for Co-Investment in Exportable Content (SCREEN) noted in the Report of the Auditor-General for FY08/09 (a) what measures are being taken by the Media Development Authority to recover outstanding revenues; and (b) what have been the financial and non-financial returns from SCREEN so far.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, Town Councils maintain common property, including void decks and lift landings, in HDB housing estates. It is an offence under the Town Councils’ Common Property and Open Spaces By-Laws to post paper notices on common property without prior written approval from the Town Council. The offence carries a maximum penalty of $5,000. Town Councils can compound such an offence, in lieu of prosecution, by collecting a composition sum not exceeding $1,000 from the offender. This is under section 49 of the Town Councils Act. If a Town Council comes across an illegally posted paper notice that bears an address or contact number, the Town Council will normally contact the offender and advise the offender against such acts. Should the offence persist, the Town Council would proceed to serve an offence notice to the offender. Generally, offenders would heed the advice of the Town Councils. Therefore, none of the Town Councils have prosecuted such offences in the past two years.”
“Again, at the end of day, it is a fairer system where they have to ballot for those Studio Apartments. We recognise that Studio Apartments are very, very popular amongst the elderly and we continue to put forth new projects. As I mentioned earlier, we will be putting up about a thousand more Studio Apartments in the next two years. On the issue of allocation of flats near the lifts for elderly, I think it is a complex system if you want to consider that. At the end of the day, first we have to look at where the elderly are today. We have met the needs of the elderly by providing access to lifts through our Lifts Upgrading Programme (LUP). We have not had spectacular requests specifically for them to be located next to lifts. I think it will require a lot more issues that have to be dealt with in relation to how we can actually facilitate such a process. For now we are quite assured that the needs of the elderly have been met through the LUP, meaning that they have access to lifts on every floor. We have provided an array of opportunities for them to continue to be housed adequately and at the same time have adequate economic resources for their retirement. Column No : 1125 NOTICES AT VOID DECKS 7. Ms Ellen Lee asked the Minister for National Development (a) what action is being taken to eradicate the problem of posting of paper notices at void decks, lift landings and common properties in HDB estates; (b) whether such postings constitute an offence and, if so, under which statute; (c) what actions can be taken against these offenders; and (d) whether there were any prosecutions of such offenders in the past two years and what were the sentences, if any, meted out to them.”
“Sir, I think first we will have to make a distinction between the types of flats that we are talking about. If we are talking about flats which are 2-rooms, 3-rooms, 4-rooms, 5-rooms and newer flats, I think we will have to probably be fair to all flat applicants. It is an issue of subsidy – those who have had earlier subsidies and are not first-timers, probably it is only fair for them to get lower priority. We also have a lot of calls from first-timer applicants who have been asking for priority and the system that we have put in place will be able to weigh in favour of those who have not had their first flat. In the example that Dr Lim mentioned, the Hong Kong system is applied to allocation of rental flats rather than purchase flats. In terms of allocation of rental flats, we have put in place certain criteria respecting the uniqueness of the housing policies that we have. I think what we want to try to address is really whether the elderly have got housing options. And when we talk about housing options for the elderly, it really is – at the same time we must also bear in mind – the other aspect of ageing which is economic adequacy. So that is why we talk about allowing them to monetise and unlock their flat equity. For the elderly, if they want to downgrade or they want to unlock their flat equity, there are several things as I have mentioned earlier – either you sublet the whole flat, give your children, sublet the rooms or Studio Apartment. As far as Studio Apartments are concerned, they are treated separately from the 2-room, 3-room or 4-room flats. In that case, it is the elderly who are so-called "competing" amongst themselves with regard to who will be able to access to Studio Apartments.”
“(In English): Sir, I came to this House in 2001 and then we were faced with the economic downturn as a result of the 911 attacks and its effects. Then, at the community level, I went through my first initiation into the world of Chinese songs. I was asked to lead in a song that was aimed to inspire my residents – the song "Ming tien hui geng hao" or "Tomorrow will be better". I shall not attempt to sing the song today but allow me to share the English translation of the chorus for fear that I would forget the Chinese lyrics. It reads: "Sing with passion and stretch out our hands Let us embrace our dreams Let us come together with sincerity Let us smile with pride Let us look forward to a better tomorrow". I believe this song will continue to be relevant now and as we face subsequent downturns, we must believe that the next day can and will be better. Even more so, if we reflect on our experiences today, learn from it, work together with our hearts and minds, the people and the Government, towards a common dream and a common destiny. Mr Speaker, Sir, "ming tien yi ding hui geng hao". I support the motion. 1.47 pm”
“Often, we find that the direct consequence of divorce is the failure of fathers to give maintenance to the children after their divorce. What complicates the problem is that the father made a decision to remarry, even though he still fails to give maintenance to the children from his first marriage. This failure to do so often continues after he marries again. Mr Speaker, we are aware that even though they have divorced from their partners, they are still fathers, still accountable, and must continue to provide maintenance to these children. Their role as mentors, advisers and observers should continue after divorce. Unfortunately, we find that the main reason for dysfunctional families is when these men fail to continue their roles as fathers and leaders to their children. More importantly, what is the role of the community to ensure that our men are compelled to exercise their responsibility? If they fail to provide maintenance and special attention to their children – but they still want to remarry with the possibility of continuing to neglect their responsibilities – what then is the community’s response to them? Should the community encourage them to continue their plans to remarry? Or should we remind them of their incapability to play the roles as fathers to the children from their first marriage? I hope that this issue that I highlighted will be the starting point for the Malay/Muslim community to analyse the role of men in the social problems of our community. Also important is the role of the community members to become the catalyst that can increase the awareness of men towards their responsibilities. *Cols. 531-534.”
“We are often reminded about the issues of dysfunctional or problematic families that continue to burden our community. The problems faced by these families are very complex, and will become more complicated as they face this economic downturn, because they usually have many family members. What should and can we do? I feel that an important issue is to help high-risk families by providing them the skills to outline their family’s vision. What do they want for their own families after 20 years of marriage? Where can they see achievements in their careers? Have their job skills improved and thus increased their pay scale as well as their family’s source of income? Where do they see their children going to? Is it to a post-secondary institute or the university? Have they planned or will plan to provide early schooling to strengthen their children basic education? Are family income, intellectual capability and skills enough to ensure that they can achieve this vision? If not, what can they do? If necessary, how can they balance the process of planning for the family with the resources they possess, to ensure that they can give sufficient attention to guide their children and develop their families? These basic questions must be presented to the Malay/Muslim community so that we can together ensure stronger and more confident Malay/Muslim families, and that we can create a new generation that is successful and contributes to the nation. Sir, the second issue is related to divorce matters, reconstituted families and the community’s role in this. I have, on a few occasions, highlighted the issue of divorce and remarriages, and its effects, before this House.”
“We should keep the principle of families on HOPE to keep their families small so that they can focus their resources on providing their children with a stable and supportive environment. But I what I am suggesting is to consider extend HOPE to families who may be more vulnerable today and tomorrow – the group that we thought were not as vulnerable previously – so that they will be able to keep their families small and not have to struggle as much and be better able to cope when the next and subsequent crises come. Sir, I would like to continue speaking on the next learning point, specific to the Malay-Muslim community. Learning point number 3 – the Malay community, strengthening families through community efforts. Please allow me to continue my speech in Malay. (In Malay): [For vernacular speech, please refer to Appendix A *.] Mr Speaker, the economic downturn that we are facing today has highlighted a few pertinent issues for the Malay/Muslim community. President Nathan in his Address has outlined the Government’s plan to ensure that our nation can overcome this downturn and continue progressing in a new era that is said to be uncertain. We often come across news about many workers, including Malay workers, who are directly affected by retrenchments. Just imagine the knock-on effects towards their families. Sir, this is not the first time that we face economic difficulties, but the time may have come for our community to begin pondering on what we should do to ensure that we are more prepared to face the next downturn. I would like to focus my speech on the aspect of family development – an institution that is important as a pillar to ensure our community’s progress.”
“Sir, as part of the reflection process on learning from this downturn, I urge that we systematically study the groups of Singaporeans that are most severely affected by the downturn. We know that no one is spared – not even the PMETs. We also know that in an economic downturn, reduced household income becomes the order of the day. However, lower income, coupled with larger family size, makes the family even more vulnerable to falling into severe crisis during a downturn. The approach as laid out in the President’s speech and the various Ministries’ addenda is right – invest in the children and secure a better future for the next generation. However, I think it is time that we studied further, from the experience of this downturn, the profile of families who are more vulnerable. There will be a group who might have been eligible for the HOPE scheme but chose not to join the scheme. MCYS should continue to reach out to this group to strengthen their coping capacities and minimise their risks of being severely affected by the next downturn. But there may be another group who may not have been eligible for HOPE currently. For example, HOPE is currently extended to couples who possess post-secondary education. Applicants with post-secondary education must not earn more than $1,000 to qualify for HOPE and the household income must not be more than $1,500 a month. This may be the group whom we feel will be able to manage and cope and have more children. Can we study the profile of those affected by the downturn to ascertain their level of vulnerability and perhaps begin to relook at the eligibility criteria for HOPE? I am not suggesting that we expand HOPE to those with more than two children.”
“To ensure that we do not compromise the current system of savings for retirement, the monthly CPF contribution will have to be increased, to be channeled into this account. However, the Government may ensure buy-in from Singaporeans for such a scheme by offering attractive interest rates to this account as it did in the recent move to offer an additional 1% to the interest rate of the first $60,000 of the members’ combined CPF savings. Further sweeteners can come in the form of CPF top-ups that Government may give during good years and channelled to this account with more going to the lower income group to incentivise them further. Sir, I know how the Government religiously protects the CPF system and it should be rightly so. What I am proposing is to ride on the current infrastructure in the CPF system as well as Government’s already existing method of redistributing wealth to Singaporeans, to prepare for the next downturn. Indeed, when we are faced with an economic downturn, we constantly hear calls by Singaporeans to allow them to use their CPF savings to buffer the crisis. “It is my money,” they say. This proposal serves to meet this sense of personal security that Singaporeans want to have in riding out an economic downturn. Sir, I am confident that when the next downturn comes, the Government will continue to help Singaporeans ride it with enhanced social safety nets. The proposal of an ED account can supplement Singaporeans’ enhanced self reliance, confidence and esteem as they will have their own savings to buffer the downturn. Learning point number 2 – the family and the next generation.”
“Similarly, the Government and related agencies should also reflect on the learning points in terms of how the current policies implemented previously have met their objectives – for example, in encouraging self reliance, increasing resilience in the people through programmes like Work Support and Work Income Supplement (WIS). Sir, one clear key learning point from this crisis is for us to ensure we have savings for a rainy day. Today, we see the value of this in the Government’s ability to use its reserves (or savings) to support Singaporeans to ride through this severe economic storm. Can we translate this learning point to encourage Singaporeans to save more for future economic storms that may hit us? Can the Government facilitate through financial incentives for Singaporeans to save more? Sir, we know that apart from our compulsory savings through the CPF, Singaporeans’ rate of personal savings is low. We are able to achieve a record 90% home ownership rate because of our compulsory savings. Thus, can we use this national savings infrastructure to encourage further savings by Singaporeans? While the CPF mechanism was designed to ensure Singaporeans have sufficient savings for old age, can we start thinking how we can capitalise on the mechanism to help Singaporeans save for rainy days, given the frequency and shorter intervals between rainy days. Today, the individual member’s CPF account consists of the Ordinary Account, Medisave Account and Special Account. Can we consider creating another account, say, the Economic Downturn (ED) Account, within the individual member’s CPF account? We can allow members to withdraw this part of their savings during an economic downturn.”
“However, given the shorter interval between economic crises, will this head of household be prepared for the next downturn? Or will it take another perhaps even wider and deeper safety net to be spread for this family at that time? What would this family have learnt from this downturn that will better prepare them for the next? Perhaps, the need to manage expenses better for financial prudence? Or the importance of investing in the young and prioritise household expenditure to reflect this? Or the importance for constant upgrading and finding new niche areas to ensure longer term employability? Sir, in the last decade alone, we have been confronted with three major crises – the economic downturn following 911 in 2001, SARS in 2003 and now, the global financial crisis. But have we systematically assessed what have we, as a society, learnt to ensure that we are always better prepared for each subsequent downturn. What have Singaporeans learnt about household financial planning during the previous downturns to ensure that they are more prepared for this and subsequent downturns? Sir, we have said repeatedly that we have grown stronger after every crisis and we will do so again this time round. Sir, it has been said that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. With individual households reflecting and identifying their learning points, collectively as a society, we will be able to see better what we have gained from this crisis. This, in essence, is building up our individual and societal resilience. My fear is that if we do not consciously go through this process of reflection, we may lose the opportunity and be faced with the next crisis having to reinvent the wheel – expanding our social safety net, asking Singaporeans to retrain, etc.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, thank you for allowing me to join the debate. Sir, much has been said about the unprecedented circumstances that we are now in today and how we should turn adversities into opportunities as we close our ranks, build up our resilience, ride out this crisis and emerge a stronger people. Indeed we have overcome many crises in our short history and each time the interval between crises seems shorter. Certainly, those who appreciate and take up the opportunities and face the challenges head on will succeed. However, the implication is that there will be those who will be left behind, widening our income gap. To many of those in this latter group, it may not be due to the lack of motivation but perhaps the lack of understanding of the new realities and challenges that the President had spelt about. What they constantly hear, probably, is the need for them to upgrade, get retrained and acquire new skills. But, Sir, for someone who is a sole breadwinner – perhaps just earning $1,200 a month – supporting a spouse and four school-going children and faced with reduced income due to cost cutting measures of his employer, his immediate worry is certainly how to supplement his income to ensure his family’s survival, not upgrading or retraining. We hear much of how our extensive social safety net has been developed to meet the needs of such a family. His family will probably be saved by the safety net this time round. His children will benefit from MOE’s increased funding, being able to go to school, receiving support for their meals, pocket money, transportation, etc. He may be assisted with another HDB loan to downgrade to a smaller flat to right size the housing loan that he may be able to afford with his reduced income.”
“Sir, may I seek clarification from the Second Minister. He mentioned earlier that when enlistees come in, about 50% of them reach the silver level of NAFA. Another 50% require the extra four weeks of physical training. And now MINDEF is thinking of extending it to eight weeks within their enlistment period, meaning that it is eight weeks shorter. I am quite concerned because we already have reduced the duration of NS to two years. With a reduction of another four weeks because of physical fitness, I wonder if MINDEF has worked with MOE – and what is interesting is, Second Minister is also Minister for Education – to require or to look at the possibility of ensuring more of our boys reaching that silver level requirement, and also ensuring that the fitness level reaches a point before they get enlisted, such that they do not need more than that four weeks extra to attain a certain fitness level required by MINDEF. I think compromising the duration of NS because of fitness is something that we should work out with other Ministries, especially MOE, ensuring that the fitness level can be up even before they reach the enlistment levels.”
“45 pm Sir, as our youths look to showcasing their talent and skills in hosting the inaugural Youth Olympic Games next year, bringing the attention of the world here, it is timely that they also begin to be introspective and reflect on how that very talent and skills can be channelled towards our defence and security.”
“How can we continue to instil in Singaporeans the importance of embracing and internalising Total Defence and their role in it? Defence and Youth While Total Defence is the responsibility of every Singaporean, we must pay particular attention to the younger generation and their understanding and attitude towards defence. The youth are our future and their attitudes will shape their actions and has serious implications on the future of Singapore. Sir, we have a good and effective SAF. Singaporeans feel secure and confident that we will be able to defend ourselves against any external threats. We attract many foreigners who decide to make Singapore their home because of this sense of security. However, is this sense of security being taken for granted, especially amongst the youth in Singapore? Sir, the Government has been engaging our youth to take ownership of the country through various channels and initiatives. New programmes have been put in place by MCYS and the National Youth Council, for example, the Young ChangeMakers grant, National Youth Forum, and others. Often times, however, these platforms see youths keen on issues that benefit them directly. Sir, I think we have to start engaging our youths on defence and security issues to ensure that they do not take these issues for granted. They, like other Singaporeans, have an important role to play. Thus, I would like to ask the Minister if MINDEF has plans to engage young Singaporeans constructively on defence and security issues? If so, how and to what extent? How can the youths be enthused to take greater interest in the defence of our country? 12.”
“Sir, this Sunday, 15th February is Total Defence Day – our 25th. The siren will be sounded. Every Singaporean will realise that it is Total Defence Day. After the siren stops, everyone will go on with their own lives and continue where they had left of. And we wait for 15th February 2010 before we are reminded again of Total Defence Day, and the siren is sounded again. Sir, is this an accurate scenario? I hope not. It has been 25 years since we launched Total Defence. I would like to ask the Minister how MINDEF determines its effectiveness in making Singaporeans appreciate their role in Total Defence. What is MINDEF's strategy in raising the level of awareness and appreciation of Total Defence amongst Singaporeans, apart from organising events on 15th February and sounding the siren on that day? Sir, the importance of Total Defence cannot be more underscored now than ever before. We are now being struck by the economic tsunami. Everyone is anxious and many feel economically vulnerable. Indeed, economic defence is a key pillar of Total Defence. The Resilience Package in Budget 2009 aims to strengthen our economic defence, ensuring that we do not slip further into a deeper recession. Sir, while economic defence may be at the top of our minds, I hope Singaporeans will not lose their guards on the other defences – social, psychological, civil and military. This is especially so as the threat of terrorism still exists. I would like to ask the Minister how has Total Defence helped us cope with the security challenges like the threat of global terrorism. Are there lessons that we can learn from the Mumbai attacks to prevent such events from happening in Singapore? If in the unfortunate situation that such an event does happen here, are Singaporeans ready?”
“Sir, National Service has evolved over the last four decades. NS is seen as a rite of passage for male Singaporeans – being transformed from boys to men. MINDEF's role is to transform them from civilians to soldiers. Sir, I would like to raise two issues regarding NS. First is the impact of the reduction in the duration of NS. As the SAF graduates into a 3G defence force, the duration of full-time National Service has been reduced to two years. The shortened duration of service, while welcomed by the men, might have effects on the operations of MINDEF, in effectively executing the training programmes and ensuring that the NSmen arrive at the same level of competence as their predecessors. Has MINDEF assessed the impact of the reduction in duration on the quality of training and level of competence of our NSFs? Sir, the reduction in duration of service also implies a more hectic training schedule and possibly lead to a lesser sense of commitment on the part of the NSFs. How does MINDEF ensure that NSFs continue to be sufficiently motivated and committed to defence? The second point, Sir, relates to the scheduling of NS enlistment. Given the flexible nature as a result of the modular system in many of our post-secondary institutions, like the ITEs and polytechnics, the graduation period of NS-liable boys vary significantly. Many have plans to further their studies after NS. However, the dates of NS enlistment sometimes affect their plans significantly, especially if they plan to study overseas. In some cases, it would mean that the boy has to wait almost a year after completing his full-time National Service to start his undergraduate programme. How does MINDEF manage such intake requests (be it early or later) of NSFs affected by such circumstances?”
“A group of young Singaporeans once told me that our community on the whole, needs to go through a paradigm shift or a major and meaningful change of mindset, to ensure that we are able to compete in the global arena successfully. Is it possible that we encourage such youths to come forward and take action, by formulating strategies to achieve this paradigm shift? Impact of Government Budget Measures and Downturn on Malay/Muslims”
“[For vernacular speech, please refer to Appendix A*.] We have heard of the possibility that many Singaporeans will lose jobs, and Malay workers count as the majority in sectors that will be badly affected. The Resilience Package from this year’s Budget aims to save as many jobs as possible. But most likely, the monthly income of many of our workers will reduce. We have seen more people asking for help as the water and electricity supply in their homes had been cut off. Other than assistance schemes provided by the government, do Mendaki and Muis have additional assistance for Malays who still need help? How can we ensure that this assistance continues to be in parallel with the help given out at the national level? Malay/Muslim organizations have also continued giving assistance. This is good. However, how can we ensure that our community do not get too comfortable and will just depend on financial assistance, and thus, increase the risk of losing their resilience to be self-reliant? We continue to instill the importance of upgrading to increase our personal stock value and our stake in getting jobs. The government has provided many opportunities. Mendaki, through SENSE, have worked hard to help members of our community upgrade themselves to get jobs. What is its effectiveness? We have heard of the attitudes of some people who do not show the determination to help themselves, and these people give many excuses when they were given jobs – like the workplace is too far, low pay, shift work and others. What is the experience of SENSE in this matter? What can be done to change their mindset and attitudes?”
“Can MCYS work closely with the Family Court in addressing this issue of compliance to maintenance orders by ex-husbands? How can the process be made easier? While there is the option an Attachment of Earnings Order, how extensive is this option used by the Courts? Sir, the situation is worsened when the men decide to remarry and set up another family. His ability to pay maintenance to his children from the first marriage will be severely compromised. What is left for the woman to do? Drained by repeated struggles, feeling helpless and desperately needing economic support, she gives up and, subsequently, she sees remarriage as a solution with the hope of having a new husband who can support her and her children. Thus, begins the new chapter of the story of a serial marriage and, potentially a serial divorce with potential dysfunctionality. 2.15 pm Sir, divorce is a breakdown in the marital relationship between the man and his wife, but the parental relationship between him and his children and, thus, his responsibility towards them remains intact. Sir, I do acknowledge that there are many responsible non-custodial fathers who do pay maintenance, and I do empathise with those who are generally struggling economically. However, I think what is more important is for the men to understand that their children need them, and financial support is very important to ease the struggles of these children.”
“Mr Chairman, Sir, the number of divorces has increased by almost one-and-a-half times over the last 10 years, from about 4,700 in 1997 to about 6,800 in 2007. From limited statistics available, we can estimate that there can possibly be at least 5,000 children below the age of 18 years affected by divorce every year. Multiply this by 10 years, we have a conservative estimate of about 50,000 dependent children from divorced families at any one time. Sir, these children go through an emotional and psychological roller coaster dealing with their parents' divorce. Many also struggle financially as often their mothers have difficulty providing for them especially when their fathers default on maintenance payments. Sir, a typical case upon divorce: the Family Court issues an order of maintenance of children; man defaults, wife returns to Court; he promises to pay, and Judge orders that he pays by a certain date or appear in Court to explain - in some instances, he makes payment on or a day before the Court date; in other instances, he still does not pay. In the former, he often defaults the next month; woman goes to Court again to file another complaint and the cycle continues. Sir, one woman related to me that she has to go to Court five times in three months. Another lady had to go 21 times in the first 20 months after her separation from her husband. Sir, in some cases when they do not have alternative childcare arrangements, the children are dragged to Court too, only to witness their mothers' constant struggle to get money, causing undue anxiety; sometimes in anger towards their fathers. Sir, why does this happen this way? Can the Minister enlighten the House on the extent to which men are defaulting on their maintenance payments each year? How serious is this problem?”
“Are there plans for MOE to facilitate the conversion of mid-career PMETs to come into this sector? What incentives, if any, are being put in place?”
“Mr Chairman, the importance of pre-school education cannot be further underscored. Although MOE has an explicit policy that compulsory education is only at the primary school level, its efforts at supporting the pre-school education over the last few years is laudable. However, I would like to ask the Minister the extent to which MOE oversees the development of the pre-school sector, both in terms of curriculum as well as human resource development. First, on curriculum development and outcome indicators. I understand that MOE issues licences to pre-school operators. In this regard, I would like to ask the Minister what are the conditions for the issuance and renewal of licences to pre-school operators. What are the processes and outcome indicators that MOE places for these operators? Has MOE revoked licences of pre-school operators who fail to meet MOE's licensing conditions? How does MOE ensure that the pre-school is in line with the primary school learning objectives? Much has been said about giving our children a headstart through pre-school education. This means ensuring that the pre-school education facilitates the transition and emersion into primary school. With the new initiatives proposed by the PERI Committee, how will the pre-school sector fit into the system, ensuring the seamless continuum of educational experience for our children? Next, human resource development. Sir, one of the challenges in the pre-school sector is human resources. The need for quality and trained personnel is critical. With the growing emphasis on giving good foundation at the pre-school level, how does MOE plan to increase the quality and quantity of the pre-school teachers? With the current economic recession, much has been said about the PMETs and alternative careers for them.”
“Sir, we have seen reports on the increase of incidences of dengue outbreaks in neighbouring countries, especially over the last few weeks. Singapore will continue to be susceptible to dengue transmission in the foreseeable future as we are situated in a dengue endemic region. Sir, the local dengue incidence tends to follow the current natural cycle of five to seven years, and it was expected that we are likely to see a further increase in incidence of dengue after 2007. I would like to ask the Minister what was the dengue incidence in Singapore in 2008, and how does this compare with 2007. As mentioned earlier, we reported a rise in dengue cases in the region. What is MEWR's strategy to keep dengue under control in this and ensuing years? Sir, everyone needs to play a part to be vigilant to minimise mosquito breeding at homes and in public places. We have seen the extensive public education campaigns by NEA and MEWR in this regard. I would like to ask the Minister what is MEWR's assessment of Singaporeans' level of awareness on dengue and their willingness to play an active role in dengue prevention. What more can be done to increase Singaporeans' sense of ownership and responsibility in reducing dengue transmission? We also know that fines are imposed on those found to have mosquito breeding sites. I would like to ask the Minister how many people have been fined for mosquito breeding in their homes in the last five years, and whether these measures have been effective in reducing the number of breeding sites. Dengue and Chikungunya”
“Sir, I can appreciate the Member's concern about the residents who are driving heavy vehicles and the fact that they come from low-income families. I also hope that the Member can also appreciate the concerns of the other residents in that area who, time and again, have given feedback about the possibility or even actually the disamenity that it has created. As I mentioned earlier, it is actually striking the balance. We are trying to appreciate the situation in Sengkang and Punggol areas and will re-evaluate it again. But, in general, the principle is to try to provide what we can to try to minimise the disamenity, yet at the same time get them to understand that there are heavy vehicle parks available, albeit not in the strategic or ideal locations that they want. Perhaps, you have to try to look at the other solution of trying to get them back from the heavy vehicle parking lot to their homes, whether it is in the middle of the night or early in the morning. These are solutions we have to find comprehensively, rather than assume that one solution is to provide them with something that is ideal for them because there are the concerns of the other residents that we have to take care of too.”
“Sir, I think the issue is not a matter of an excessive supply or demand but one of preference and striking a balance between the needs of the heavy vehicle drivers as well as the residents in residential estates. What I have highlighted earlier in my reply was that there are enough heavy vehicle parks available all over Singapore, the bulk of them are in the industrial estates where the heavy vehicles rightfully should be. We do recognise that many drivers prefer to have their vehicles parked near their residential areas. But we have to strike a balance between the disamenities that these vehicles will cause the residents of those residential estates. So it is not so much that there is a long waiting list. Of course there will be a longer waiting list in areas that are highly preferred but that does not mean that the supply is not readily available. As Mr Chong mentioned earlier, the vehicles will have to have a parking lot first before they can be registered. We have about 21,500 registered heavy vehicles with 42,000 parking lots available. So the issue is really one of preference but, at the same time, I hope Members will appreciate the need for us to ensure we reduce the potential disamenities that can create in our public housing estates.”
“We have to ask ourselves whether it is better, cheaper and easier to grow our own or buy from overseas. In some cases, it is; in others, it is not so. For example, local egg production has proven to be valuable, as our shell egg supply is not well diversified. The aquaculture industry is another example to reduce our reliance on wild catch. AVA has invested in high-value upstream technology to produce robust fish frys, which is the weakest link in the food fish production. Growing-out of frys can then be carried out in nearby waters. I am pleased to say that we have achieved some success with our R&D, such as the "super seabass" which feed our market last year. Mr Charles Chong asked about our safeguard against the incursion of Avian flu. Avian flu is endemic in this region, and its recent resurgence in China, Vietnam and Indonesia is a stark reminder of this. Although the WHO has assessed that there is no risk of a full-blown epidemic across Asia like we have seen previously, AVA will remain vigilant and continue to enforce and review our multi- layered defences. Our safeguards include importing poultry only from HPAI-free countries or zones, and enhancing biosecurity measures and disease surveillance at our local establishments. Sir, the task of balancing food safety and supply has become more challenging. We will continue to work with the industry to achieve a resilient supply of safe food at affordable prices for our people.”
“Mr Chairman, I thank Dr Lim for his question on the safety and resilience of our food supply. Ensuring food safety is key priority of AVA. Diseases such as the avian flu and abuses such as the melamine contamination of milk in China show clearly the need to remain vigilant, especially since most of our food is imported. In this regard, AVA will be establishing a dedicated Unit to monitor early signs of food safety threats. The Unit will undertake horizon scanning to gather information from various targeted sources, such as Internet, open literature, news feeds and networking with strategic partners including key industry players. It will then carry out trend and impact analysis to determine a potential threat, and coordinate responses to such alerts. This will allow us to take pre-emptive calibrated responses in line with our overall risk management philosophy. This Unit will work closely with its overseas counterparts, and partner regional and world organisations, such as WHO, OIE and the European Commission, which allow rapid information-sharing to respond to potential health threats. Let me now speak on the resilience of our food supply. The sharp price inflation last year also showed the volatility of the global food demand and supply situation. As a small country, diversifying food imports remains an important strategy. We will strengthen our diversification efforts and consider other complementary strategies such as encouraging and supporting our companies in investing in agriculture businesses overseas. Dr Lim also raised the idea of developing our agriculture industry to provide food and employment for Singaporeans in this economic downturn. Given our land scarcity, we need to consider this very carefully.”
“I seek the Minister's comments on what role Singapore can play in efforts by the international community to reduce the violence and manage the conflict in the Gaza Strip.”
“Mr Chairman, Sir, the Middle East was rocked by the escalation of violence in the Gaza Strip in December 2008. It was reported that the three-week onslaught of fire power resulted in over 4,300 Gazians wounded, some 1,300 killed and about 900 of them were civilians. On the Israeli side, it was reported that 10 Israeli soldiers and three civilians were killed with 500 wounded. Sir, whatever the reason, violence cannot be condoned. The death of many innocent lives is a stark reminder that international disputes must be resolved through diplomatic and other means. The role of the international community is critical in this regard. The United Nations issued a resolution for the violence to cease immediately. Unfortunately, it seems to have fallen on deaf ears. Why did this happen? Is there a gradual role by the UN in ensuring peace in the Middle East? Sir, I would like to ask the Minister what else can a country like Singapore do. We have often taken the position that we encourage the disputing parties to exercise restraint. But is this insufficient? We have been compared to our neighbouring countries to have issued more strongly worded statements. At the international level, can there be a stronger international influence in finding immediate and longer term solution to the conflict in Gaza? Sir, the Middle East conflict has been going on for a long time, with various attempts by different world leaders at brokering a peace agreement. We will never know when the next escalation of violence will occur and how many more innocent lives will be lost. And each time it happens, we will not know the extent of public sympathy or anger that may generate here or in the region.”
“Sir, 2008 marked the milestone in ASEAN's development as a regional grouping with the completion of full ratification of the ASEAN Charter. It brings promise and hope for a stronger grouping, making its mark in the world stage. Sir, in the face of this optimism, ASEAN was greeted with various serious challenges in 2008. Individual member countries continued to be faced with various domestic, social and political problems. For example, Myanmar's refusal to allow foreign aid during the cyclone nine days' calamity, the Philippine legislators attempting to impinge their President and, most recently, the political standstill in Thailand. Apart from the individual member countries facing unique domestic issues, ASEAN is also faced with the challenge of disputes between member countries. For example, the dispute Thailand and Cambodia over a patch of land where a historic temple could have turned into war if they started shooting at each other. Sir, the current global recession is not going to make it easier for ASEAN. While we continue to uphold the core principle of non-interference in domestic affairs of member countries, ASEAN must also be mindful of the effect of these domestic affairs on how the larger world views ASEAN and its credibility. For example, Singapore effectively played its role as Chair of ASEAN but Thailand's current chairmanship has been gritting with ASEAN's inability to hold its annual summit. I would like to ask the Minister for his assessment on how ASEAN is being viewed as a regional block in the last six months, and what more can be done through the Charter to strengthen ASEAN itself and to continue on its course. Bilateral Relations with Neighbouring Countries”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, we empathise with cases such as the one highlighted by Mdm Cynthia Phua. I think the issue that Mdm Phua raised on whether the HPS should be paid or can be paid by instalments or should be made to pay in lump sum. Prior to March 2001, the requirement was that HPS was to be paid in lump sum. But I think there was the recognition that there were difficulties, so my understanding was that post-March 2001, CPF has allowed HPS to be paid by annual premiums through annual payments. And annual premiums are more affordable if they paid annually. Of course, the issue really, is to make sure that the mortgages are able to be continuing paying that annual premiums. The premiums can be paid through CPF or by cash. And the premiums are a lot more affordable for them if they are able to pay annually. And the system allows for that, at this time. MARINA COASTAL EXPRESSWAY (Clarification on exceeded budget) 13. Mdm Ho Geok Choo asked the Minister for Transport whether he will clarify on the exceeded budget of the Marina Coastal Expressway which is currently under construction.”
“However, there is a wide range of COV for each flat type across different towns, including transactions at or below valuation. For transactions in third quarter 2008 with positive COV, the median COV ranged from $4,100 in Ang Mo Kio, for example, to $23,000 in Bukit Merah for 2-room flats. For 3-room flats, the median COV ranged from $12,000 in Pasir Ris to $38,600 in Bukit Timah. HDB has provided resale information to help flat buyers make informed decisions. Every quarter, HDB publishes the median resale prices as well as the median COV, by town and by flat type, to aid flat buyers in finding a resale flat that meets their housing needs and affordability. The existing stock of 2-room and 3-room flats is mainly in the matured estates, where demand is strong. HDB is building more 2-room and 3-room flats in tandem with the rising demand. This will further increase our stock and geographical spread of smaller flats in the resale market over time. I should point out that the COV can be positive or negative depending on market conditions. As buying a flat is a long-term commitment, flat buyers should exercise prudence and buy a flat within their means.”
“The structure is that you get subsidies through the housing ownership policy or through the rental policy. If you have obtained one subsidy, you have differentiated levels of subsidies subsequently. And if you have obtained two subsidies, then it is fair for you not to have further subsidies unless it is really an extenuating circumstance. I think we can continue to study the issue of how we allocate subsidies. But at the end of the day, we have to ask ourselves how much subsidies do we want to give Singaporeans, to what extent do you want to give subsidies to Singaporeans, at what point do we actually stop and say, that is it, I think you have benefited and let us find other solutions for you. 2-ROOM AND 3-ROOM HDB FLATS (Reasons for high cash-over-valuation) 7. Mdm Ho Geok Choo asked the Minister for National Development (a) if he will explain why cash-over-valuation of 2-room and 3-room HDB flats are so high; (b) how will this situation develop in the short term and long term; and (c) what measures are taken to address this issue. The Senior Minister of State for National Development (Ms Grace Fu Hai Yien) (for the Minister for National Development): Mr Speaker, Sir, resale HDB transactions take place on a "willing buyer, willing seller" basis. Resale prices, including cash-over-valuation (COV), are influenced by factors such as location and attributes of the flat as well as the circumstances of the buyers and sellers. Based on third quarter 2008 figures, 25% of the 2-room and 3-room resale transactions involved COV of $10,000 or less. The median COV amounts for 2-room and 3-room resale flats are $16,000 and $19,000 respectively. They have stabilised in recent quarters and are comparable to other flat types.”
“The question is really what are the solutions we have for some of these families. I think we are working towards multi-pronged approaches. The reason why some of these families get into difficulties, is really sometimes, at the onset, they might have not made their calculations right. They might have bought flats which are beyond their ability, given the economic circumstances or their reduced income. What do we have for them? I think one of the solutions we have is for them to downgrade. The concern of many MPs really is the supply of smaller flats for them to downgrade to. We are looking into that, as the Minister had mentioned in his earlier response, and we are actively freeing up the supply of our smaller flats, including 2-room flats and 3-room flats. At the same time, when we talk about the solution, we are talking about MPs coming to us all the time. We all also acknowledge the fact that there are many appeals and your own experiences tell you that many appeals come through HDB. And it takes a while for us to process each and every appeal, and for us to micro-manage each appeal is really an arduous process. So, I beg the forbearance of Members to appreciate that it is not an easy task to help families go through that whole process. At the same time, families do have their own expectations and their own preferred solutions. Like we say, in our assessment, sometimes the preferred solution is really not what they want or what we think is doable for them. So I take the point about alternative rental housing, whether we can differentiate the rentals as well as subsidies are concerned. I think the whole principle behind it is really how do we allocate Government subsidies to Singaporeans today.”
“They live with their extended families for a while, save up so that they can get enough savings to be able to pay for the next flat or improve their income level so that the loan that HDB is prepared to give is higher and that will enable them to purchase the next flat. So, the point that we are trying to make is to make sure that every lessee understand and go through that process with the HDB officer on all the different options. Often times, the option that HDB presents to them is not their preferred option. Because certainly their preferred option is a simple rental flat which is heavily subsidised, but we have a lot of issues with subsidised rental flats as we had talked about before in this House. We talked about the fact that their numbers are limited, we talked about the fact that we want to focus and target subsidised rental flats to the really needy who have not obtained subsidies before. So I think it is not about just looking at rental flats as the only option. It is one of the options, but let us look at other options that are more viable for them too.”
“Sir, let me respond to the first part of the question, which is responses by HDB officers. We have 420,000 households that are having outstanding loans and it is a massive programme, and HDB officers work very hard to try to respond to each and every case. And I appeal to Members' forbearance as far as HDB's responses are concerned. But we will try to reach out to every resident as far as possible. On the issue of rental flat, rental flat is really one of the options. A lot of times lessees see it as the only option. So when HDB officers counsel them and look at the alternative solutions, often times we look at what is the next possible solution. Sometimes when they sell the flat, they have the ability to actually downgrade. There are proceeds to the sale of their flat, and the proceeds may allow them the potential to own another flat. HDB may be prepared to give them another loan but the loan that may be given to them is actually not sufficient due to their low income. So what we tried to tell them to do is, "Let's look at your other options. You may not be eligible for rental flats because you do have proceeds, you are not totally low income." Sometimes they do have income of more than $1,500, which means that they are not eligible for rental flats. So what are the options? First, they may be able to rent in the open market, which is less favoured by many people. Second, really I think we should start talking about the possibility of getting support from their extended families, and many of the lessees actually do get support from their extended families.”