Shriniwas Rai
Singapore
“Like the Select Committee, Sir, we should encourage the public to put their proposals in writing to the Clerk of Parliament who could then send them to the Minister concerned for his consideration. Sir, I am aware that the GPC does play a very important and consultative role. But it does not come under the purview of this Parliament.”
“Sir, like good health, we take good government for granted. Sir, I end my speech with this remark. We are a young nation. Our institutions are still evolving. We must try to evolve a system of government that suits, and I repeat, our social, economic and political needs. We cannot just borrow from other countries' constitution.”
“Sir, I have the benefit of going through Mr Inderjit Singh's speech earlier, and I support his call for a two-tier category. I think it is something that is worthy of consideration. Although it may not be practical now, I think we should give it serious thought. Sir, this is a very judicious Bill.”
“Of course, if the need arises, and if it is useful for it to be corporatised, that can be considered. Question put, and agreed to. Bill accordingly read a Second time and committed to a Committee of the whole House. The House immediately resolved itself into a Committee on the Bill. - [Assoc. Prof. Ho Peng Kee].”
“Sir, Mr Jeyaretnam has totally taken away my motion. It is not an amendment to the motion. He had been the Registrar of the Supreme Court. He knows the procedure very well. He must have my amendment in some form or other. What he has done is that he has completely taken out my motion and put in his amendment, which is wrong.”
“Yes, I am speaking on the amendment. Sir, I ask the House to reject the amendment. Do not laugh, Mr Jeyaretnam, I am coming to it. I think Mr Jeyaretnam forgets that any Member of Parliament can raise any issue in this Parliament. The fact that he has moved an amendment to my motion signifies that I have the right to speak.”
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“Much obliged, Sir. Singapore being a small country, we cannot have the luxury of having a very heavy diplomatic establishment. But the least we could do is to have friends all over the world and I would urge the Minister to consider maintaining new diplomatic relations, say, with countries with which we do not have so far. This would at least be an opening for us to go into these countries when the opportunity arises. Many of these countries, especially in Latin America, are potential opportunities for us. The example of Mexico is very clear to us how we have in a short while built up the relationship. I think it is in the interest of Singapore, like Switzerland, to have as many friends all over the world. And when we should apply for the United Nations' seat in the Security Council, at least we will have support from the other countries as well. Another matter which I would like to touch on is Roving Ambassador or non-resident Ambassador. As I have said earlier, we do not have a very rich history of foreign relations. We just started from 1965. But it is a credit to the Minister and his officials that we have at least maintained diplomatic ties. If we cannot afford to have an ambassador resident in that country, at least we try to have ambassadors who are non-resident in countries like Sri Lanka, Pakistan, Iran and Latin American countries. I would urge the business community and senior professionals who can afford it to opt, when approached by the Government, to represent Singapore. This is the least they could do for the country. Of course, the Government cannot afford to pay them an allowance which probably they will get elsewhere. Nevertheless, it is an honour and prestige to represent one's country.”
“We could have musicals from China. We could have musicals from India. The Indian and Chinese cultural scene could be created in Singapore and the tourists will enjoy it. This is an area which the Minister may want to study because we are having a lull period now. We should see what other areas the tourists want. I remember reading in the newspaper that the museum tourists are getting bigger. We do not have many museums but at least we have a cultural scene. I would go even further. We should form our own ballet company. At least we could invite the Indonesians and I think they will be willing to come here to perform on a cultural exchange basis for some months. We could advertise this to the tourists and they will come. I am not suggesting that they just come and watch the procession of Thaipusam which has a considerable crowd. There are other aspects of the Indian and Malay cultural scene which could be put on showcase and the tourists will enjoy it. So I am asking the Minister to give some serious consideration to this issue. The other point is this. I know the Tourist Promotion Board does tie up with Singapore Airlines. I think they should also tie up with other airlines to see how we can sell Singapore. 1.30 pm”
“Sir, I agree with Mrs Lim about the need to review our policy on tourist promotion. We have achieved a great deal and I would like to pay tribute to the Singapore Tourism Board and its officials. But, nevertheless, I would urge them not to rest on their laurels. Opportunities are coming up now in the sense that more and more airlines are coming and air fares are getting cheaper. But, unfortunately, as mentioned by Mrs Lim earlier, the haze has created a big problem, and Members have also shown their concern. It is not within the purview of the Minister, but it is very important to minimise this problem. Sometimes the media paints a picture that Singapore is such a dangerous place. The important thing is to drive home the message that Singaporeans are more healthy than probably those in other parts of the world. So the messsage has to be sent. But in the meanwhile, we should also re-examine the issue and I would suggest an angle which has probably not been looked into. There is a growing generation of tourists both from America and Europe who are coming to this part of the world and they are looking at the Museums and the cultural scene. Singapore is uniquely situated in the sense that no other country, probably with the exception of Malaysia which is a big country, whereas Singapore has a very small area, has got the Chinese culture, Indian culture, Malay culture and others as well. What we ought to do is to promote this cultural heritage and I would suggest that we can take a leaf from the Indonesian experience. When I was there years back, the Ramayana Mahabatra Ballet was superbly performed. The tourists enjoyed it. May I urge the Minister to examine the possibility of having the same. We could have Chinese opera, probably in English.”
“I have a similar suggestion, on a smaller scale, but with the same principles, for Singapore businesses that may face the same crippling problems. I would like to ask the Minister to consider the following: Firstly, to create an IMF-style or equivalent bailout package for Singapore- based economies and companies which are still viable for the long term, but are caught by the sudden turn of events that even our Government could not have foreseen. This need not be a handout, but in the form of loans which can be jointly administered by local banks and the Government with special interest rates. The Government can establish stringent criteria so that we ensure only the companies with strong fundamentals qualify and we do not end up helping truly `sick' companies. Secondly, can the Minister or the Government also guarantee letters of credit issued by local businesses, just like the proposal we made for Indonesian companies? This will be another avenue to help ease the cash flow and financing problems faced by our companies here in Singapore. The Chairman: Mr Ahmad Mohd Magad is not here. Mr Singh.”
“I know that there are obstacles but we should try to examine our opportunities in the sub-continent as well as in Latin America again. And, if necessary, I think MTI should take a mission, make a study on its own, and then get our investors interested in the project. I said this because unless MTI takes the lead, I do not think we can proceed. MTI can take the lead, convince our people that there is some hope, and this can be done only if there have been studies done by MTI. So I will ask the Minister whether he and his officials have done any study as to the opportunities of building properties, and construction in Latin America and Africa as well. Mr Inderjit Singh: Sir, once again, I would to like to bring up the issue of the short-term problems businesses in Singapore are facing due to the regional crisis. No one could have predicted the extraordinary outcome of the regional crisis where the regional economies and their currencies `nose dived' at such a fast pace. No matter what actions the governments of the affected countries took, none were effective and none could restore the loss of confidence in these countries. Many companies in the region are effectively bankrupt and many of our own companies used to do business with these companies. The net effect on Singapore businesses has been widely spoken about in the House over the last few days. The bottomline is that many Singapore businesses are faced with short-term cash flow and credit financing problems. Sir, Thailand and Indonesia, as countries, faced similar problems, resulting in the crippling of their economies. For these countries, the IMF rescue package was set up to bail out their economies.”
“Sir, I agree with what Mr Leong has informed the House earlier that we should look for opportunities in the region and the fact that the regional economies are not doing well should not deter us. In fact, we should be bold and courageous and look for new grounds. As pointed out by Mr Inderjit Singh, we can seize the opportunity, and in this regard, I would request the Minister whether he and the experts in his Ministry could advise the would-be investors what are the areas that our investors could go into. I think we should also look beyond the region. We should look for markets. I was rather surprised that a Malaysian company got a project in Andhra Pradesh in India to build roads. I do not see why with our vast experience in building construction our builders were not encouraged to do so. If the Malaysians can do, so can we. 1.00 pm Sir, the other question that bothers me is this. We are focusing ourselves too much in the region. I think there are fertile markets that we have not explored, eg, Latin America. I am glad that the Ministry of Foreign Affairs has got roving ambassadors. We should examine markets where nobody has gone, and I think we should be the first to go. Because in these countries - Africa, Latin America, and the Caribbean - there may be some opportunities. One area which I think we should seriously explore is that our banks should see whether there are openings in other parts of the world, and take an equity participation in viable banks. Similarly, I think in the world, the United Nations, are places for our building construction. We should also explore ideas with other institutions in other parts of the world on how we can go about building houses, and in this area, I think India would be a classic example where there are a lot of opportunities.”
“Much obliged, Sir. ESTIMATES OF EXPENDITURE FOR THE FINANCIAL YEAR 1ST APRIL, 1998 TO 31ST MARCH, 1999 (Paper Cmd. 3 of 1998) Order read for consideration in Committee of Supply [2nd Allotted Day]. [Mr Speaker in the Chair] Head N (cont.) Resumption of Debate on Question [11th March, 1998]. "That the total sum to be allocated for Head N of the Main Estimates be reduced by $100." [Mr Leong Horn Kee]. Question again proposed.”
“Sir, what steps will the Government take for drivers with foreign driving licences? I read in the newspapers that in Malaysia, somebody was driving with a foreign driving licence. Would these drivers with foreign driving licences be given an orientation course? Assoc. Prof. Ho Peng Kee: Sir, Traffic Police has announced that all persons who hold foreign driving licences will have to sit for a written test, to ensure that they are familiar with the signs and other rules that are in force in Singapore.”
“As for publishing banks' results quarterly and having more transparency, I think the banks have a Committee under Elizabeth Sam now working on disclosure standards. I am not sure that they are looking into the question of quarterly publication of results. But it is something which we will put to them to consider. There are pros and cons. The Americans do it. It used to be thought that this is too much of a short-term approach because everybody was watching the share pricing. Every wiggle up or down causes great anxiety amongst managements who have share options. So you may have a fixation with the short term rather than the long term. But since the countries, which have a long term view, ran into some difficulties, like Japan, this criticism has not been heard so often. I think we have not been working on quarterly results, but we have been reasonably successful. I would be hesitant to change in a hurry. As for banks doing fund management and being encouraged to do so, they already do, not in a very big scale but they do, and there is potential for them to build up further. It depends mainly on their finding the right team to do this. It is not the same sort of skill or mindset as managing other people's money, deposits, loans. You need a different set of instincts and aptitudes, but it is something which we can build up over time.”
“But they add to their competitive strength by merging, as Members have pointed out. And also there is a question of POSBank and what its role should be in the banking system. That is a policy, but whether they merge or they do not merge, I think the shareholders have to decide. And you have seen some of the statements made by two of the banks, I think, in yesterday's Business Times. So I believe that they understand the imperatives but they want to judge the best time. So we will continue to encourage them. As for fund management incentives, Mr Leong asked about the $5 billion offshore management incentive and whether we should make it lower. I think, if I remember rightly, when the Finance Minister announced this incentive, $5 billion is not a hard lower bound. In other words, even if you do not have $5 billion to manage, you have less, but you are going to do substantially more than you did before, you can come to MAS and MAS is prepared to consider giving you tax-free status on your income from managing these funds, perhaps not for five years but for a shorter period. So the door is not completely closed, even if you have not reached $5 billion. We know that it is quite a high target, but I think psychologically that is not what we want to aim for, and it is achievable over a period of time. As for having two tiers, one tier for local fund managers and the other for foreign companies managing funds in Singapore, I do not think that is desirable. I think we should have an even playing field and the same rules should apply, whether you are a local company or a foreign company. We operated like that with manufacturing. I think that is right. And we should operate it similarly, increasingly, in the case of the finance industry.”
“If conditions are tight and banks judge that they need a higher interest rate to compensate for the risk of lending, interest rates will go up, and the banks will hold more cash. If the banks feel more confident of economic circumstances and they are prepared to accept a lower margin, then interest rates will tend to be lower, other things being equal. So it is not something which MAS has a luxury of directly manipulating or influencing. I think we have to accept that. As I have said, many countries have got into serious trouble because they try to influence their interest rates one way and their exchange rates another way. And when the two policies were incompatible, they crashed, and they took a long time to unwind the pieces. I think in Singapore, the interest rates are not very high. They went up to 14% briefly, short-term rates, went down back to 4+%. Now they are 6+%. I can understand that companies which have borrowed will worry about every quarter point in their interest payments. But we have to accept that. For the small companies, we have the Local Enterprises Financing Scheme, and the Finance Minister has announced we are improving the Scheme and expanding it and putting more capital into it, so that we can lend more to the local companies. I think that will make a difference. As for banking mergers, as I explained on14th January in this House soon after Keppel Bank and Tat Lee Bank announced their intention to merge, the Government will encourage our local banks to merge and will support them bringing in foreign minority partners if they can add technology and expertise. Each of the banks is financially sound and indeed they are among the soundest in Asia, according to Moody's and according to many other assessment agencies.”
“We have no immediate plans to change it. We have strengthened against the ASEAN currencies significantly but, as you know, we have weakened against the US dollar and other major currencies. So on a trade-weight basis, the Singapore dollar has been relatively stable. In fact, it has appreciated slightly since July last year when the trouble started. It has enabled Singapore to maintain price stability while protecting the overall competitiveness of the export sector. What will happen if our neighbouring currencies go down further? Will we drive down, do we need to go down to match their competitiveness? As I have explained, I think in the last sitting, the countries whose currencies have depreciated against us, we expect will experience high inflation, and this will erode their competitiveness over time. We are already seeing this in Indonesia - very high inflation in January, even higher in February. So it is the real effective exchange rate which matters and not the nominal effective exchange rate. Therefore, I do not see us having to make major adjustments to our policy as a result of regional currency movements. As we have said, in MAS, our policy is not on auto-pilot. There is a trade weight which we monitor, but we exercise judgment in deciding how closely to follow it over the short term. As for interest rates, both Mr Inderjit Singh and Mr Rai expressed concern over high interest rates. Interest rates have to follow market trends, market forces and reflect liquidity conditions in the market and risks, and also interest rates overseas. We are a very open economy. So we do not have the luxury of setting our own independent interest rate policy, apart from what happens overseas and apart from what happens to our exchange rate policy. They are inter-related.”
“Sir, the banking sector is an important part of our GDP. Our banking sector has growth potentiality. Mr Leong has urged for mergers of local banks and DPM had earlier indicated to this House that he would encourage mergers. But I think the Government may have to take a lead in persuading these banks to merge earlier than planned so that they could take advantage of the regional opportunities that are being offered, like what DBS has done by going into Thailand, which other banks may want to consider. The other points which I would like to make is this. Banks are an important part of our institution. They should regularly publish their results and I would urge that they should do so every three months. This would be very transparent and transparency will help both the shareholders as well as the public in knowing how the particular bank is doing. 6.15 pm The other concern which I would like to raise is this. In the past, the banks in Singapore have been also allowed to trade in shares. In view of the opening of fund management to the outside world, should we also encourage and give different criteria to our banks, but not as high as required for fund managers? I think the banks should also seriously think of these areas if they want to compete with other international banks. BG Lee Hsien Loong: Sir, I will answer the points on the Singapore dollar and the banking issues, and the Finance Minister will take the point from Mr Sin Boon Ann concerning investment disclosure rules. First, on the Singapore dollar. As Members know, we manage it flexibly against a trade-weighted basket of currencies, comprising Singapore's major trading partners. We revise the basket from time to time. We believe it is reasonable, in line with our trade patterns now.”
“Sir, my two other colleagues, Mr Leong and Mr Inderjit Singh, have already spoken on this matter. I would like to ask the Minister two questions. First of all, whether he is happy with the present arrangement in our basket of currencies or whether we should change the composition. The other concern is that lots of Singaporeans have this nagging question: what would be the exchange rate of the Singapore dollar in months to come? Unlike other countries, Singaporeans have faith in their currency. They have not gone to the money changers to change or put their money in fixed deposits. This shows the inherent strength of the Singapore dollar. But, as Mr Inderjit Singh pointed out earlier, we have to also look at the exports and since the regional currencies have actually fluctuated and gone down considerably, what are the Minister's options in case the regional currencies go further down. Another point that I would like the Minister to answer is: what would MAS do to see that the interest rate does not go on rising? In fact, we have three increases within the last few months. It is important that doing business does not become expensive, and mortgage loan does not become expensive, which will affect the man at large. Even a quarter point increase is going to be quite painful. So I would urge the Minister to address these issues.”
“I know a lot of lawyers, who are conservative, are not in favour of this. But I would urge that we should introduce a new system. Sir, on the question of mediation, I know the Attorney-General is committed to sending disputes for mediation. But what I am suggesting is that whenever the Attorney-General is a party, either as plaintiff or potential defendant, the Attorney-General's Chambers should first look at the option of mediation and not wait for a writ to be filed in the court and then talk terms. I think it would save a lot of time. The other point which I would like to touch on is the legal officers. It would be in the interest of the country if the Attorney-General's Chambers pass some of its work to the members of the Bar. This is practised in other Commonwealth countries. In this way, we could save some funds. In this way, he could also benefit from seeking opinions from members of the Bar on important issues, whether it is a constitutional issue or other issues. Once again, Sir, I think we should be loath to question the Attorney-General's office and, as I have said earlier, it is a constitutional appointment and, as a practising member of the Bar, I say let us not undermine the confidence that the Constitution has given him.”
“Sir, the office of the Attorney-General is a constitutional appointment and he has the sole discretion to prosecute or not to prosecute. And we in this House should never question it. To do so would be to undermine the office of the Attorney-General. The Attorney-General is assisted by the Solicitor-General, and I will come to that later. What I would like to say is that in many countries the office of the Attorney-General has been politicised but, here, it is separate from the Executive. He is not accountable to Parliament and we should not in any way question the discretion vested in the office. Now I come to the Solicitor-General, Sir. The Solicitor-General is the next senior person in the most important office of the land and, regrettably, I see no appointment to this office after the retirement of the last Solicitor-General. It is indeed a sad reflection and I think there is no lack of challenge either in the legal service or outside. To have this important office vacant for such a long time does not speak well for our judicial and legal system. Sir, the other topic I would like to touch on is plea bargaining. Sir, whether it is white crime or any crime under the Penal Code, the accused person may be prepared to plead guilty or to plea bargain with the Attorney-General's Chambers. I am suggesting that we should do away with our traditional British practice and follow the American practice. If the prosecution and the defence can work out a bargain, then it would be in the interest of the community. Money could be saved and the poor accused will know exactly what he is going to meet at the end of the day. As it now stands, he does not know what sentence the judge is going to give to him. So I am suggesting that we should look afresh.”
“I am giving my views. Would you bear patience with me?”
“Sir, I am rather surprised that Mr Jeyaretnam should question the right of the Attorney-General's office. He himself is a trained lawyer.”
“I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The sum of $63,564,790 for Head E ordered to stand part of the Main Estimates. The sum of $23,924,900 for Head E ordered to stand part of the Development Estimates. Head B -”
“We plan to set up two more centres to serve the northern and western regions of Singapore, probably by the end of the year 2000. So that is our game plan. Four centres in the east, central, north and west. Prof. Chin talks about the need to have trained mediators. In fact, this is the heart of mediation, and much efforts have been expended by the Ministry of Law's Alternative Dispute Resolution Division in this matter. As a foundation, a core group of trained mediators has been assembled. These are experienced mediators who are lawyers and other professionals, as well as mediators from the Singapore Mediation Centre. In addition, suitable grassroots leaders from diverse backgrounds have been assembled and trained. They include a school principal, a retiree, a doctor and two managers. So this core group is the first group that will do mediation at the Marine Parade CDC, comprising about 30 in number. The first CMC at Marine Parade has made a good start. So far, 14 cases have been successfully mediated, and 20 more cases are scheduled to be mediated over the next few months. And feedback from residents have shown they appreciate the opportunity they now have to have their disputes resolved amicably at the CMC. So as more CMCs are set up, more grassroots leaders will be identified for the task. As you know, the plan is to co-locate CMCs with Small Claims Tribunals. So over time, Singaporeans will find convenient one-stop centres where they can have small claims as well as minor disputes settled at one location. 5.30 pm”
“But there have been cases in the past, important cases, where the Chief Justice in his discretion had constituted a five-man Court of Appeal to hear such cases. So the point is that there is no need really to institutionalise it, because then you have five Judges, and resources are used up in a Court of Appeal hearing just appeals. So I think the current position is good enough where you have this flexibility reposed in the Chief Justice to constitute a five-man Court of Appeal when the need arises. The third point that Mr Rai mentions is whether or not criminal matters involving private summons and other minor offences should not, in fact, be mediated at the community level. With the setting up of the Community Mediation Centres, indeed this is being done. Because there is one rule, under the CMC Act, which spells out the powers of the Community Mediation Centres whereby in a suitable case, a Magistrate hearing a complaint of a minor dispute involving a criminal nature - it could be voluntarily causing hurt or mischief - could ask the parties to go to a CMC to settle the dispute, but, of course, with their consent. So the process is there. The CMCs are fairly new. We have just set up our first Community Mediation Centre at Marine Parade, which has worked well. And 10 or so of such cases were, in a sense, diverted from the Magistrate Courts to be heard before the Community Mediation Centre. Let me say a few words about the development of the CMC which is something of interest to Mr Rai and also to Prof. Chin. The first centre was set up in Marine Parade CDC in January. We are targeting to set up a second centre somewhere in the central part of Singapore, probably in the Ang Mo Kio/Cheng San CDC to be operational by the end of this year. Thereafter, we will assess.”
“Presently, the District and Magistrate Courts already hear all these cases, except, of course, those punishable by death for drug cases, and within the monetary limit of $250,000 for the other cases that he has mentioned. Some are heard in the High Court which, I understand, the waiting period, in fact, is very short, just a few weeks. And the waiting periods are also constantly monitored by the High Court. So we feel that there is no need to transfer everything to the Special District Courts. The division of jurisdiction and cases between the High Court and Subordinate Courts, in fact, has been effective in adjudicating these matters that Mr Rai mentions. Case precedents have been developed over a period of time in these cases. Mr Rai mentions the Family District Court. Indeed, a Special Court was set up in the District Court, called the Family District Court, and matters which were originally heard in the High Court were transferred down. But he would agree that family matters are quite different. Family, matrimonial matters, with its complexity involve not just legal issues but also social issues. And indeed having a Special Court set up at a District Court level has allowed the Court to be very creative in using counselling resources, community resources in the family justice process. The other suggestion of Mr Rai is whether or not our Court of Appeal could have five Judges hearing the appeals. In fact, as he himself has mentioned, currently under section 30 of the Supreme Court of Judicature Act, the provision is already there for the civil and criminal jurisdiction of the Court of Appeal to be exercised by three or any greater uneven number of Judges of Appeal. Appeals are generally heard by a three-Judge Court in Singapore, which is adequate.”
“We have landlord/tenant cases and accident cases still being heard by the High Court, although the jurisdiction of the District Court has been increased considerably, to $250,000 now. I think it would be better to have it transferred to the District Court, as we have done in the case of family law. And I think family law is more important than landlord and tenant cases. I urge the Minister to consider this. Time is running short. Sir, I will just be very brief on the subject of mediation, since Prof. Chin has touched on it. I would like to urge the Minister, in private summons cases involving neighbours and family members, we have a different set of hearing. Instead of going to the court, let us create a Community Tribunal, and we could do justice. Because in my experience as a member of the Maintenance of Parents Tribunal, I have found it very conducive to have a hearing where no lawyers are involved, no press is involved. And I think the Community Tribunal could be a proper forum to hear cases, and not the District Court where the atmosphere is intimidating and, of course, lawyers are always involved. As a lawyer, I would urge the House and the Minister to reconsider the position and try to use mediation even on small-scale private summonses which involve members of the same family as well as the public. Assoc. Prof. Ho Peng Kee: Sir, Mr Rai has correctly observed that our courts have been proactive, making many innovations to improve the system whenever it has seen a need for such changes. Here, in this House, Mr Rai has made several suggestions for further changes. The question is whether there is a need for these changes. First, he has suggested setting up Special District Courts to hear certain types of cases, like drug cases, landlord and tenant cases.”
“I am suggesting to the Minister to consider whether in important cases - I know that from time to time we have five Judges, but that is very rare - we could have five Judges sitting in important cases, whether it is criminal law or constitutional law. In this way, Sir, we would have greater participation and I think the public interest will be served. I have discussed this matter with senior lawyers and they are supportive of this move. Sir, I move to another area of concern, and I know I am going to touch on a very sensitive issue. Drug offences, which now carry a capital offence, are heard in the High Court whilst cases which carry 20 years' imprisonment are heard in the District Court. I am suggesting that these cases should be transferred to a Special Court which could be headed by either Senior District Judges or senior members of the Bar. I say this because it costs the public immense amounts of money to hear these cases. And after all, our District Judges are interpreting the law (Misuse of Drugs Act) every day. The principle of law is the same. Unlike murder and treason and other capital cases which are heard in High Court, crimes of passion, I call it, you have the mens rea, you have all sorts of defences, and the Judges have to be experienced. But I see no reason why the law which is applied in the District Court cannot be applied to these cases. For the benefit of Members, let me say this. I was in India recently. In India, for a long time, murder cases are heard by District Judges, and a single Judge. I think this is, of course, a very radical departure, but I think we ought to look into it. The other area which I would like the Minister to consider, Sir, is this.”
“Sir, we have the most independent, honest Judiciary that anyone can talk about in the world. The abolition of the Privy Council has led to the establishment of our own Supreme Court. When the Privy Council was abolished, there were a lot of concerns. I had spoken, in fact, to Prof. Jayakumar long before the abolition. I appealed to him to have it abolished, and I am happy that after the abolition of the Privy Council, our Judiciary has come of age. In fact, it is due to our judicial system that one of the judgments, the famous Pertamina case, that was heard by Justice Lai Kew Chai, disagreed with the Privy Council's earlier decision, and it was a very bold decision, and the Privy Council was persuaded by Justice Lai's decision. Sir, I am suggesting to this House that we should look afresh at our judicial system especially. In the last five years, the Supreme Court and Subordinate Courts have achieved outstanding results and it is to the credit of the Chief Justice, the Judges of the High Court, the Registrar and his officials, as well as the Subordinate Court Judges in bringing this about. The Court is moving from a long-established adversarial system, which is the British practice, to one which is keeping with our Asian tradition - mediation, conciliation and arbitration. In fact, in the High Court of Singapore, less and less cases go to trial. Most cases get settled either by the court officials or through the intervention of the Singapore Mediation Centre set up by the Singapore Academy of Law. In many Commonwealth countries, Sir, the courts are crowded with cases. We are very fortunate. We do not have such a situation. Sir, on the quorum of the Court of Appeal, as it is now, in most cases, only three Judges sit on the Court of Appeal.”
“Sir, I beg to move, That the total sum to be allocated for Head E of the Main Estimates be reduced by $100. Sir, may I have your permission to take the three cuts together?”
“Therefore, it is very inequitable under the present law to protect the banks and not the others who by right should be given a lien on the property or on the project account to protect their interest. I like to cite the UK practice on statutory right to suspend work. In 1996, they enacted a law to give builders the statutory right to suspend work in the event of non-payment under section 113 of Housing Grants (Construction and Regeneration) Act 1996. That means a contractor can, after giving seven days' notice, suspend performance of its obligations for non-payment. There is also provision for automatic time extension for completion for the period during which their employer remains in default of his payment obligation. Sir, I would like to ask the Minister to study this biased and unfair practice and provide an equitable protection to the parties involved in the building process.”
“Sir, it would be in the interest of Singapore lawyers as well as the business community and property developers to have the entire Singapore under this title deed as soon as possible. Mr Chuang Shaw Peng (Nominated Member): Sir, it is known by now that the property market in Singapore is bad. The chances are property prices will continue to fall further. Quite a few property developers had halted their construction projects. If the situation persists, it is not unimaginable for some property developers to go under and the bank will take over their building and land. Sir, under such circumstances, the professionals, the builders, the suppliers and the workers working on the project will suffer greatly. And this is because under our current law, it is stated that whatever sits on the land belongs to the land. If the land has been mortgaged to the bank, then whatever contribution that the builders, the professionals, the suppliers and the workers had made during their building process will go with the land. The CPF of course has the first charge. The residual amount would be first taken by the lending bank with whatever remaining distributed to other creditors, such as the suppliers, professionals, builders and workers. It is not unusual for an ailing developer to slow or stop payment to the builder months ahead of their collapse. Hence, a lot of values, contributed by the professionals, builders, suppliers, workers, etc. are not paid for and yet they are taken away by the bank. What makes it worse is that under the law the builder has no statutory right to stop work even if it is not paid.”
“The Public Trustee takes a shorter period because he does not have to go to court and I would urge the Minister, for the benefit of our people, to look afresh at the legislation and amend it, if necessary, Sir, I would like to commend the Public Trustee because, from time to time, whenever lawyers, and I myself, avail themselves of the service, and we feel that clients would be better served by the Public Trustee, the Public Trustee has unstintingly obliged and has done a good job. I think this House should be aware of this fact. May I be permitted to move to land titles, Sir. When the British started the settlement of Singapore, we had what we lawyers call "common law titles". Sir, I would at this stage like to declare my interest. I am the owner of a private property and I have made an application for conversion of this property to land title. Sir, when the common law title started, and many Members who have bought properties would have known each document is added after each transfer and it becomes very cumbersome and difficult. Sometimes it is difficult even for lawyers to read one title from the other. And rightly, the law was changed. We have what is called the Registry of Titles and they have done a good job over the years. I stand corrected, but I think there is a plan to have all of Singapore under the title deeds. I am concerned, and feel perhaps the Minister may want to enlighten the House as to how long it would take before the whole of Singapore is governed by this Torrens system. Sir, I think we are moving very fast and the Registry has now been computerised. I think Members and the public will be interested to know when the Land Titles Registry expects to convert the common law title to that of land titles.”
“Much obliged, Sir. First, I will deal with the Official Assignee and Public Trustee. The Office of Public Trustee is a very important legal office. The present holder of the office, Dr Chandra Mohan, besides being a Public Trustee and Official Assignee, also acts as the Registrar of Moneylenders, Commissioner for Charities, Registrar of Pawnbrokers, amongst other things. He administers all monies collected under road accident cases. As the Registrar of Pawnbrokers, he has reorganised the auction of pawned goods for the benefit of the public. There is greater transparency now. In fact, the public has benefited. The public is getting more out of these auctions. I commend him and his men for doing a fine job. 4.30 pm There is another area which I would like the Minister to consider, and that is, the Office of the Public Trustee. With growing affluence, more people are leaving properties behind and we should consider increasing the jurisdiction of the Public Trustee. As Members may be aware, the Public Trustee is allowed under the Act to administer estate with a certain limit. I think it will be beneficial to the community at large if this was increased. Also, Sir, we should think of corporatisation of this aspect of the Public Trustee. When I visited Australia, the State of New South Wales has got this and it offers its service, as lawyers do, to administer estates. Sir, I am suggesting this because in normal cases, the court takes about six months to get the proper documents for administration.”
“Over the years, the NS units have grown from just being operationally ready and competent to undertaking other administrative responsibilities. NS units, given the necessary resources and assistance, can and are ready to play a larger role in community relations.”
“Employers' support is extremely important. We must recognise their contribution. We can do more to overcome some of the perception gaps and frustrations that sometimes confront employers when they communicate with the SAF. The most important and frequent reasons why employers would want to communicate with the SAF is to ask for deferment of in-camp training for their staff. Usually this happens a little too late, but, quite understandably, business unpredictability sometimes makes it difficult to plan one's in-camp training, even when notices are given six months ahead. Sometimes employers get the feeling that their problems are not being understood or appreciated adequately, especially when they deal with some unknown officials either in writing or through the phone. I think NS units can play a very important role here. They put a human face and touch when dealing with employers. Such institutionalised programmes can lead to more meaningful and strong relationship between NSmen and employers, and thereby effectively enlarging the SAF community. Who but the NSmen themselves can better demonstrate that when employers ask for deferment on behalf of their employees, they are actually asking other NSmen to shoulder additional responsibilities brought about by the absence of one soldier. The SAF, like any other forces for that matter, is organised such that the absence of one member in a unit or group can seriously affect training and handicap the capability of a unit as a fighting force. I ask for a new focus and emphasis to establish and enhance the relationship between employers and the respective units to complement the roles already played by SAF public relations unit.”
“Sir, the topic that I am going to raise, I believe, has been raised earlier. I am suggesting that we consider the proposition to allow our girls to serve some national service or what you call community service, for a period of three to six months. I do this in seriousness, because some Members felt that this matter should not have been brought up. I think we are being unfair to our girls. We are discriminating against them. They should be given the opportunity also to serve the country. Some of them are already serving in the non-uniformed branches. May I urge the Minister, as a long-term policy, to consider my suggestion. He may be aware that some other countries are having national service for girls. They have a longer period which I do not agree. I do not think girls should serve the same period as the boys. I think anything from three months to six months would be sufficient, and they could be a contributing factor, both in time of peace and in time of crisis. Sir, boys who have served national service have developed a sense of camaraderie, a bond which only the school days can rival. Similarly, the girls too can benefit. I urge the Minister to give some consideration to this matter in the long-term interest of Singapore. The other point is that we are having a declining workforce. If we could allow girls to serve from three to six months, then we may want to consider I am not saying that we should reducing the period for the boys from two and a half years to two years and three months. Mr Zulkifli Bin Baharudin (Nominated Member): Sir, I propose to the Minister for Defence to introduce institutionalised programmes for key appointment holders in NS units to meet with employers directly, both during and outside in-camp training, to improve community relations.”
“Similarly, the employers must realise the important contribution that their employees do when they perform National Service. And I will go one step further, that those employees who have done outstandingly well in their National Service should be considered as a plus point for promotion. Sir, I cannot overstate the fact that the defence of Singapore is the responsibility of everyone of us, including the Members of this House, some of whom are actively serving National Service now. Sir, in order to have a good armed forces, we have to have money invested both in machines as well as men. And I would urge the Government to second some of the best brains of the country into the armed forces, which I think the Government has been doing. I think it is gratifying to note that we are developing defence ties with other countries, like Sweden. The fact that they are prepared to have defence ties with us shows the capability and efficiency of our armed forces. I would urge the Minister to go and explore and have defence relationships with as many countries as possible. Sir, there are many Members who are going to speak. I will just touch on only one point which is of importance to us. We always think in terms of production, in terms of money, dollars and cents. The defence personnel may not be helping in GDP, but let us bear this in mind. Without them, we would have no GDP. So, please give them their dues, and I think we should salute these men who have helped in defending Singapore.”
“Sir, I am reassured having heard Dr Tony Tan's reply. We have come a long way from the days of Dr Goh Keng Swee to that of Dr Tony Tan's. The fact that the Prime Minister has given three Ministers the responsibility of defence shows the priority the Government has. I would like to urge the Minister, and I share the sentiments shown by Dr Wang and Mr Charles Chong, that the fact that 6% is the upper limit should not deter us from reviewing this upper limit should the time arise. Sir, our defence, our peace, will ensure the quality of life that Singaporeans are going to enjoy. The fact that your area has not been burgled does not mean that you keep your house open. There is an Indian saying: in order to have peace, you have to defend it at a price. The fact that we do not have enemies around us is a good sign. But the fact still remains that we live in a very turbulent world, and we must build our defence capability. Sir, it is reassuring that none of the Members, when the debate on the Budget Statement took place, questioned the spending on defence, and I think that is right. I would like to touch on another area which I think has equal priority, and that is, the people must realise that defence is part and parcel of their life. It is not just our armed forces. Every Singaporean must realise that he has a role to play. And I urge the Government to reconsider giving the citizens a right perspective of our defence. And I would urge the Minister, in collaboration with the Minister for Education, to ensure that every school child in Singapore shall realise that the defence of Singapore is also his responsibility. His parents must tell him how we must nurture ourselves in the world we are living in.”
“Sir, I will be very short. While credit must go to the political leaders for our achievements, I think the role of civil servants in assisting Ministers in achieving Government's promise cannot be understated. I would urge the Prime Minister to try to get more people from outside to join the civil service for two to three years. If they cannot be persuaded to join the political circle, they could at least join the senior rank of the Administrative Service. BG Lee Hsien Loong: Sir, on the base-up wage system, yes, there are ideas to work it out. In the civil service, we will have to find ways to narrow the ratio between the maximum and minimum salary points. Right now, more than half the salary scales have a ratio of exceeding 1.5, which is the desired target. The way we have implemented the NWC revisions - 2.15 pm”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, may I ask my friend for some clarification on one issue? He represents the Chinese Chamber of Commerce. I am interested to know, and probably the House may be interested to know, whether the views he has expressed are also the concerns of the other Chambers of Commerce?”
“Moral responsibility and a good sense of long-term interest should guide these scholars who are role models for our young. Sir, the Minister for Finance has provided us with a Budget that seeks to fuel investment confidence at a time of economic uncertainty. It is to be especially welcomed in this regard and I hope that the Minister will consider more measures for the young families that may face hardship. On the whole, I strongly support the Minister in his motion.”
“I believe, however, that studies have also shown the importance of child care and pre-schooling in the pre-primary years. A study in the United States that took nearly three decades to complete revealed that the group under review who participated in pre-primary schooling had excellent results in terms of social discipline, in avoiding undesirable behaviour and in doing well in college. This motivated in fact the Federal Government to spend about $3 billion a year on such programmes. Admittedly, of course, the situation is different in Singapore but it certainly deserves more attention. We, unfortunately, do not have figures for Singapore which in itself is a cause for concern. As Singapore moves towards its goal of becoming a developed country, such facilities grow in importance and should be provided on a larger scale. It is hoped that such measures may be considered in due course. Finally, in these times of economic turmoil, all of us would do well to remember that when times are hard, the need to show character and regard for others is paramount. No doubt, the need to earn a comfortable wage is always uppermost but one must be careful not to sacrifice principle for pay. One of the most unfortunate incidents that has been mentioned in this House that has come to light is the conduct of scholars in relation to their bonds, that is, the so-called bond-breakers. Scholars are role models for their younger counterparts who are still in school. They shoulder not just legal obligations but moral ones as well. Now these scholars have redeemed their bonds, have not committed any offence or civil wrong. However, the moral responsibility rests on them to fulfil what they promise to do.”
“At the moment, the provision of child care centres is within the aegis of the Ministry of Community Development while pre-school facilities are undertaken by the PAP Community Foundation and other private agencies. There is an acute shortage of trained minders and teachers in relation to the provision of facilities for the pre-schoolers. We do not have the quantity, and the quality can always be improved. It seems to me that there should be provision in the Budget for several measures. First, to provide for institutions to train more child minders and teachers for the pre-schoolers. Second, to provide concessions or subsidies to those who are providing such services so that they can employ better teachers and minders. And third, to provide incentives or subsidies for the training and retraining of teachers and minders for the pre-schoolers. There is no provision for such measures in the current Budget. The provision for child care in the MCD budget is a small one, relatively speaking. Child care services and pre-schooling are taken very seriously in advanced countries. For example, in France, 98.8% of three-year olds and 100% of four-year olds are enrolled for pre-primary schooling. In West Germany, the figures are 30.8% and 68.5% respectively. In the US, the figures are 28.5% for the three-year olds and 53% for the four-year olds. The source is from the OECD: `Education At A Glance', published in 1995. Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, as the industrialised economies move from brawn to brains, it is never too early to start cultivating the minds of our young. The Minister has mentioned the excellent achievements of our students in international surveys. That is a cause for happiness and congratulations to our educators.”
“There is no doubt that in terms of macro-economic planning, the measures introduced in the Budget would go some way to meeting the challenges posed by the crisis. To the young working population, however, the crisis translates itself not in terms of the IMF, Central Bank, or macro-economic policies. To these young workers, the questions are: Does the wife have to go back to work? Where can we put the children, if she does that? And what else can we do to service the debts that we have accumulated. Every last cent counts. This is typified by one young constituent who said to me: Why only 5% rebate when we need every cent we can earn? He knows about the crisis. He knows that one needs to be prudent but he nonetheless is concerned that he cannot make ends meet. It is in this context that I have to ask whether the measures of relief to taxpayers, the 5% rebate, and the rebate on HDB S&C charges, are sufficient to cater to the needs of many young families who are facing a year of uncertain wage policies. The spectre of retrenchment, of bankruptcy also may loom large for some. Paradoxically, at a time when there are fewer jobs, housewives who did not contemplate an early return to work now may have to in order to buttress the family income. But they are constrained by factors such as the lack of child care and pre-school facilities. This is an issue that should be addressed in the current Budget. One of the key pillars of Government policy is to invest in the young. There is no doubt that much has been done in this regard, especially in relation to the building of schools and the roll out of the IT Master Plan for schools. But I am talking about the care for the very young - the pre-schoolers.”
“Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, what I was trying to state is that we all support the defence policy. I am not questioning the right of Members to debate this issue. I am saying that so far the Members, who have spoken, are in support of the Government's defence policy. We know where our priorities lie. I am not checking for a moment the constitutional right of the Members to question either in Committee stage or now. I hope this will satisfy the hon. Member from the Opposition. I am saying our priority on defence and education is right. We are not saying: why are you spending more on education and defence? I hope he understands the position. Assoc. Prof. Chin Tet Yung (Sembawang): Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, the economic turmoil in the region has brought to us the realisation that Singapore may not be the master of its own destiny. The economies of the region are interlinked and interdependent. Prosperity or misery felt by one may equally be felt by others, although the dosage of bitter medicine may differ. For many young Singaporeans who have known only prosperity in their working lives, the crisis is surprising and frightening. The usual response is: We are doing well. Why are we affected? The Minister for Finance is to be complimented for giving a detailed account of the crisis, although we may need an update as the situation changes even as we speak, such as the delay by the IMF in paying the next tranche to Indonesia, and Indonesia responding by saying that the IMF's demands are unconstitutional. The Minister has presented a careful, restrained Budget, recognising the need to help ailing businesses to promote certain desirable businesses and the need to continue to strengthen the infrastructure of Singapore.”
“We are a safe haven where they can come and work and settle here. Sir, many Members are disappointed that the tax rebate has not been increased. I am one of the minority who says that the Minister has been very prudent. The 5% is a fair figure, bearing in mind that the people who are going to pay these taxes are those who are in a higher bracket. However, I would have been happier if some of the savings from the 5% could have been allocated to skills training. I am hopeful that the Minister would look into this area when reviewing this, and when the need arises. Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, if we look at the totality of the picture and not some areas, we are in a better position than many countries of the world. There seems to be a fear that because of the problems facing our neighbours, we may be in a long period of economic recession. I agree with the Minister that there will be no recession as our fundamentals are very strong. Our growth may be slow, but there will be some growth. It is better to have a period of cooling-off. An overheated economy can burn our pockets. We have overcome worse economic conditions. We can do so provided we are united in our resolve. Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, some Members have said that the Minister has failed to stimulate the economy. Artificial stimulation, whether in the economy or in any human organisation, can never be satisfactory. Let the natural process take its place, and only when we have a need do we introduce stimulative measures. Sir, I support the motion standing in the name of the Minister for Finance.”
“Therefore, I have no hesitation in supporting the Government's move to allow talented people to come and work here. Singapore would benefit from these people. Our diplomatic missions abroad should promote the policy as other countries are equally interested in wooing these people. They are in short supply. We must not miss them. Sir, I have no doubt that the Government will not allow these talented personnel who have come here to take away jobs from our people. The simple truth is that we do not have such people in our midst. Even developed countries are trying to attract these talents. We need them more than they. This is why even USA, with a highly successful workforce, is trying to get computer engineers from Asia. Similarly, medical specialists are in high demand both in USA and UK. I support, and I hope every Singaporean support this move. In Singapore, where we do not have any natural resources, we are depending on our manpower and our location. It is therefore very vital that we attract top talented people. They will enrich our workforce. They will add high value to our economy in the end. The whole economy will benefit. And we must not be shortsighted, as some people think that the Government is neglecting its own people. The truth is that Government is concerned about Singapore citizens and we will always be concerned. The Government in allowing these people to settle is going to help the workforce. However, Sir, I have one caveat, and this is an important caveat. We must try to persuade these skilled people to train our workforce, to train our senior echelon in the area of speciality. We must make an extra effort and sell to these people our sound fundamentals and sound educational system. We have very good local as well as international schools.”
“It is reassuring to note that the glut in private property would not increase as the Government will control the release of land. I urge the Minister to review the position from time to time to see that the property market does not fall dramatically. I believe a long slump in the property market will not be good for the economy. But having said that, let me add a word of caution, Sir. I share the sentiments of Mr Inderjit Singh. We must not allow the free market forces to be stifled. While we must see that the property market is protected, we must not allow the free market to be flouted. Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am a little disappointed, and I share the sentiments by some Members of this House, that despite the urgent need for skills training, the Minister has not been very generous in this area. No special fund has been allocated from the Budget to train the workers. All we have is a previous set-up under the Skills Development Fund. I urge the employers to take more interest in skills training. Wherever possible, they should not wait for retrenchment or wait for the Government's call for skills training. They on their own initiatives should try to find out which area of skills development will help them. The Government could in some cases offer financial assistance to small enterprises so that they can take full advantage of the workers' training. I believe the present system is not adequate. Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is encouraging that our financial sector is being reorganised and I congratulate the Minister for the various tax incentives in this area. I am sure this area will further grow, and let us hope that we will become the best financial sector in the Far East. We should encourage more fund managers and financial experts to settle down in Singapore.”
“I am glad that no Member so far, either opposition or from the Government backbenchers or the NMPs, has questioned the spending on defence and it is important because we are living in a turbulent world. Defence and stability cannot be taken for granted. Sir, we have a very pragmatic budget. This did not come about because of the planning just of last year. It is the result of careful finance balancing and planning that the Government has taken over the years. Some Singaporeans take it for granted that this is a natural process. Some believe that there will always be some surpluses. Sir, while talking of the surplus, I am a little disappointed that the Minister could have been a bit more charitable by giving less surplus and the money could have been channelled to areas which I am going to discuss later. Sir, a stable, open, transparent, honest Government which is committed to improving the life of the people has brought about this Budget. Even the Government's worst critics cannot deny the Government's sound fiscal policy. In any economic development, the people have a pivotal role to play. So is the case of our economy and our people. The people must undergo some sacrifice now for a better future. All of us should upgrade our skills even if it may mean some change in our lifestyle. Here, I agree with Mr Seng Han Thong that we should all, irrespective of what our position in economic life, train ourselves. Some temporary loss would yield gain in the future. Sir, I would like to share some concerns shown by the private property owners. They are concerned that the prices are falling, distressed sales are on the rise. The bottom line is yet to come.”
“Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, thank you for giving me this opportunity. Sir, before I proceed with the Budget proper, I hope you will allow me to comment on the point raised by Dr Tan Cheng Bock, and state my view to this House. Sir, I agree with him and the other Members that no civil servants should undermine the confidence of Members of Parliament and their standing in public as well as in Parliament. However, Sir, when we discuss the conduct of a person who is outside this House, we should be cautious, temperate in our language, and we should see that in no way do we cast aspersion of the civil service as a whole because no matter how strong the political leadership is, if the civil servants are not committed to carry out the work, goods will never be delivered. Sir, if a Member wants to speak on the conduct of a civil servant, he should at least file a proper motion. Dr Tan Cheng Bock, in fact, spoke more on the Chairman of EDB than on this Budget. I think it is proper that we, the Members, should abide by the Standing Orders. I especially remember reading in the papers some years back when an hon. Member of this House criticised somebody outside this House and Members took great exception. I think we should re-express the same sentiments today. Sir, when we examine the Budget presented by the Minister for Finance with the background of the turmoil that is facing many South East Asian countries, we can say that this has been a Budget without pain. The Budget is positive, prudent and, if I may say so, promising. Our priorities are right. Defence and education have been given top priority and they should be so.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, could I have a clarification from Mr Chiam? He said that one has to stand for election to know whether the elections are fair. I think he is wrong. In fact, the public of Singapore, the 3 million people, know what is a fair election. Is he saying to the House that he came to this House by unfair election?”
“Not related to this, but I would like to touch on, is the question whether we want our women to be treated in the fashion that some of the Indian films portray. Sir, the Indian PAC has conveyed its views to the Minister about television programmes but censorship does not come under our purview. I hope the Minister will take this into consideration. Whilst SINDA and the Indian community are trying hard to uplift the Indian community, the Indian films are our biggest drawback. Sir, Mr Simon Tay has mentioned that we are here not to support the Government or the opposition. We are here, chosen by Parliament, to give our views independently so that the decision-making process of this Parliament would be easier.”
“I support the move to increase the fines but not in the way it has been done. I think we have overdone it. Let me give the House an example. Under new section 29(4)(b), the maximum fine is $100,000. We all know that the courts normally do not impose the maximum fine, but they always bear in mind the quantum laid by Parliament, and in this case, it is $100,000. When we compare the fine imposed in more serious crimes under the Penal Code, this House will realise that the proposed fine is excessive. The other area I am concerned is the definition of young persons, which I do not think any of the Members has raised. So I will raise it here. I think we should start a new definition of a young person as anybody who is above the age of 12 instead of 14. Most secondary students have the mental and physical attributes which their parents 30 years ago may not have. I wonder why the Minister wants to conform to the traditional definitions of young person. In any case, I must congratulate him for giving the protection to young people. Under the proposed law, they would not be exploited and abused. This is to be welcomed. As the Minister has pointed out, flyers and all sorts of literature appear in letter boxes both in HDB estates and even in private residential estates. Sir, there is another area which I would like the Minister to consider. Both Tamil and Hindi films seem to have a great deal of violence and obscenities, not pictorial obscenities but in the words used. The fact that the Indian censors have cleared the film must not lull our Board of Censors. Some of the words, especially in Hindi, are indeed obscene and cannot be mentioned.”