Yeo Wan Ling
Singapore
“Thank you, Speaker. I have a clarification for Minister of State Jasmin Lau. In my speech on job redesign, I had asked for AI grants to be tied to mandatory job redesign requirements and productivity gains linked to worker outcomes.”
“Thank you, Speaker. Could the Minister of State elaborate on the specific fire safety protocols in place for HDB car parks with EV charging points, including detection, suppression and evacuation measures?”
“I thank the Senior Parliamentary Secretary. Could the Ministry give further clarifications on how it assesses PWM compliance in procurement processes, including whether firms have met, for example, training requirements for their workers under the PWM requirements?”
“Mr Deputy Speaker, 10 years ago, we built the foundations. Today, we are building the integration. And 10 years from now, I hope we will look back on this Bill as the moment Singapore chose to ensure that our next bound of growth is one that every worker can be part of.”
“As the Bus Contracting Model (BCM) enters its next phase, could a similar transformation support be considered for our bus captains? A refreshed BCM should be a win-win for commuters, operators and the workers who keep Singapore moving. Strengthening Transport Accessibility”
“And our local workforce must move up the skills ladder alongside industry transformations. In this new phase of labour transformation, I would like to put forward three Budget priorities. First, we must continue attracting top global talent in a way that strengthens, not substitutes our Singaporean core.”
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“She spends this time all by herself and she will watch a quick episode of a Korean drama, which, incidentally is also 45 minutes. I was intrigued and I spoke with my friend, who is a clinician about this. She smiled and brought up that, indeed, studies have shown that women need 40 to 45 minutes a week for themselves to recharge before going back to the marathon of life’s responsibilities. Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, considering how many hours are in a day, all this woman needed was a fraction of it, for herself to rest – 45 minutes, an episode of a K-drama, a meal, a nap. If we see our pots boiling over on the stove, do we not remove the lid a little to remove the pressure? As we recognise the pressures faced by our women warriors, I put forth that there might be a need to provide support for respite care that might alleviate the burdens of our women workers. An in-community registry of professional care-givers, who could help with eldercare, childcare, and even cleaning services could be made publicly available for women to access short-term care in community easily. An important figure in this whole eco-system to support the movement of Singaporean women returning to work are actually our foreign domestic workers (FDWs). Many women workers I know have shared with me that they see their helpers as an extension of their own families, and form close ties with these "aunties" who help look after the elderly and young in the family as if they were their own relatives. Although it is regretful that recent spotlights have been cast on negative practices between employers and their FDWs, I believe that the general undercurrent is optimistic.”
“While the urgent need to go green for national security is definitely something that is not lost on our sisters, this 10 cents per litre, means that they would need to spend more long gruelling hours driving their taxis, this made all the more challenging with street hails at a low due to the dearth of tourism and night spots remaining closed. This impacts the careful balance between their caregiving duties at home, self-care for their mental wellness and the time spent on their livelihoods. Indeed, it might be worth noting that many of our female cabbies are single parents and thereby just makes the balance even more challenging. The community appreciates the six-month $3,150 COVID Drivers Relief Fund (CDRF) and is heartened by the close tripartite relationship that brought along the expedited disbursement of the tax and additional petrol duty rebates. But our community is still worried that the COVID-19 situation will stretch beyond six months and would like to know what would happen once the support ends. True to the protective gear that the union would provide for all our workers, our unions would take the feedback and work with our tripartite partners – LTA, the taxi, private hire platforms, taxi platform in coming up with further support to ease the transition into the higher duties and also other COVID-19 related difficulties. I met with a rather distraught constituent who was very stressed about managing her care-giving responsibilities at home. Her husband suffers from OCD. She has three young ones and her youngest one has special needs. After speaking with me at length about her issues, she actually heaved a sigh of relief and said that she would now go over to the nearby KFC. She explained that once a week, she goes to KFC for 45 minutes for a coffee break.”
“Indeed, the same forces which kept our women workers out of the workforce – long working hours, long work commutes – are now being resolved, and there is now a wonderful open opportunity for a different narrative on redesigning jobs for a more inclusive workplace, not only just for women, but also for workers who need flexible work arrangements such as PWDs, seniors and well, people who just prefer such progressive work cultures. Indeed, we must make use of this opportunity to continue to let women reimagine their many possible livelihood options. Women can be anything they choose or desire to be: a career in STEM, a professional crane operator, a plumber, a harbour pilot! Our career choices are limited only by the imagination, and the union will work with our Labour Movement companies and associations to redesign and reimagine jobs. In turn too, I hope that the Government would be able to place more resources to encourage companies to have a relook into their work processes and to support companies through their job redesign strategies. Every woman warrior needs to be equipped with armour so that they can go the distance. I recently met with our female union leaders of our taxi driving sisterhood and they made a very passionate point about how the recent petrol duties hike would impact their livelihoods in adverse ways. The petrol duties increase effectively means that for our drivers, they pay another 10 cents per litre of petrol that they need for their livelihoods.”
“Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, perhaps it is because I am a female Member of Parliament and a Labour Member of Parliament at that, that I have been meeting with many women who have come up to me with their dreams and their aspirations of being able to contribute to their family and, at the same time, to be part of Singapore's economic recovery. Even as we weather the storms of crisis, where households incomes have taken a hit, women have once again risen to the occasion. In World War II, as men were called to the frontlines, women held the fort by stepping up to the plate at home, in industry, in healthcare, to carry families and nations through, in times of great crisis. Today, it is no different. Our women warriors are gritting their teeth and putting on their battle gear as they enter, or re-enter the workforce, take on multiple jobs, or keep at it with their unwavering work ethic to maintain their family's livelihoods, while keeping the nation's economy vibrant and diverse. COVID-19 blew into existence, a strong and wicked storm that devastated many livelihoods and brought many to their knees. This same storm also brought with it, strong tailwinds that created the opportunity for reimagining the impossible. For decades, companies had struggled with the notions of flexible work arrangements vis-a-vis company productivity and bottom line. With COVID-19, overnight, most companies had to deep dive into work from home arrangements and many companies are now considering making this the default in their new normal.”
“Mr Deputy Speaker, 2021 is a very exciting year for me and many fellow women, as this has been earmarked as a year for Celebrating Singaporean Women. Indeed, there is much to celebrate! Our sisterhood in the union is stronger than they have ever been, with our sisters being represented in leadership positions in every single union, and indeed, even in Parliament, the female voice is strong. Out of the 93 seats for elected Members of Parliament, 29% of the elected seats belong to women, compared to just four seats two decades ago. As I look upon the women in my life, whether it is my mother and sister who are always there for me, the ladies in the taxi unions who would make passionate points about the need for self-care; the young ladies at my Edusave Awards who would beam at me with such pride when I tell them to shine bright for other little girls; the women in my constituency who comes to me with tired eyes because of their relentless care-giving duties. I cannot help but think that there are miles to go before we sleep, that there are miles to go before we sleep. Indeed, while we live in a contemporary society that promotes equal opportunities in school and proactively creates level playing fields at work for both men and women, the work must continue to hum along to allow women to: one, reimagine their career and livelihood pathways; two, protect women when their decisions impact their livelihoods; and three, to ignite women to fully achieve their potential as they reach for the stars and beyond.”
“Mr Speaker, I thank the Senior Minister of State for her response. I have two supplementary questions. The open areas outside of many common public hotspots such as MRT, LRT stations, pathways leading up to shopping malls, which may house polyclinics as well as dialysis centres are often open air and unsheltered. However, these pathways are frequented by families with young children as well as patients with compromised immunities and vulnerables such as seniors. In such high human traffic thoroughfares, often, the smoking community would also find it convenient to take a break and smoke, especially if there are litter bins around for the disposal of the cigarettes. In such areas as well as in places where there are high incidence of complaints which turn out to be areas which are not prohibited, would the Minister consider to locate such litter bins to areas where there is less human traffic but still convenient and safe for our smokers to take a break? The second supplementary question is, would the Minister also consider to place advisories or send emissaries to the areas for the community to be considerate of each other's needs?”
“We have already seen several maker spaces, which are public workshops with 3D printing capabilities, where people can come and realise their designs in community, tapping on one another's experiences and resources. These spaces are also good opportunities for the education of budding 3D printing enthusiasts to uphold community guidelines such as the Nerf community's compromise on the realism of their blasters to prevent panic. Mr Speaker, Sir, I would like to end off my speech with fair warning that regulation, without education and awareness, puts us on a slippery slope. Should this Bill fail to provide an answer for the actual threat it is seeking to defuse, we set a precedent for shackling any novel community at the slightest hint of danger. This Bill must live up to the responsibility it seeks to hold over the 3D printing community, lest we end up fighting a battle that simply did not exist in the first place. This concern notwithstanding, I support the Bill.”
“At this juncture, I would like to assure everyone that I am not playing down the possibility that on an off-chance, someone might indeed 3D print a weapon and use it for harm. However, while such fears are warranted and everything should be done to curb any instances of such behaviour, it must be asked, are there better ways to do so? As hon Members, Mr Sharael Taha and Mr Melvin Yong had mentioned, not only would it be extremely challenging to monitor the Internet traffic of those with 3D printers, an implausible response time of mere hours, if not minutes, would be required to intervene between the download of a 3D weapon's blueprint to its production. Mr Speaker, Sir, I reiterate that it is with great caution that we must proceed with the regulation of 3D printing lest we produce an unwanted chilling effect on the use of such innovative technologies. Proposed controls on 3D printing activities reminded me of the controls we placed on colour copiers from 1979 to the late 1990s. Yes, colour copiers. This is too familiar a tune. These same controls on colour copiers were lifted also because of their onerous restrictions, making way for innovation in counterfeit-resistant currency notes in Singapore. With the imminent difficulty of enforcement, potential futility of regulation and stifling of a vibrant community with controls on 3D printing, we must consider alternatives. In this vein, I must inquire, even as we move to enact heavier regulations from above, have we been conscientious to fly low to the ground and explore community alternatives? With an already active community eager to facilitate the free flow of ideas and pool resources for the furthering of their hobbies, initiatives toward visibility sharing of designs and builds would not be too far-fetched.”
“Gerald’s interest in 3D printing began when he had to print parts for a robotics competition in school and, since then, during the pandemic, he has put his 3D printing skills to good use as he printed face shields in bulk that were donated to our constituency to help reduce the spread of the virus. Mr Speaker, Sir, I wish to make the case for the 3D printing community and, indeed, the passions of researchers, inventors and adventurers, that even as we ramp up regulations on this versatile technology, we are careful not to set a precedent for further restrictions that might stifle the creative winds taking their community by storm. It is easy to be afraid of the unknown, as with exciting new technologies such as 3D printing. So often, in the face of uncertainty and "what if's", our first foot out the door is to come down hard with regulation. When I consulted those in the 3D printing scene, from researchers, inventors to hobbyists, I found that many felt that the idea that one with malicious intent would resort to using home-based 3D printing to produce dangerous weapons such as guns would be a pretty distant one. Many pointed to lower hanging fruit such as pipe guns, given the impracticality of using a household-appropriate 3D printer to print functional weapons. Not only would important aspects of a functional weapon, such as ammunition, be impossible to forge using such 3D printers, 3D printed weapons themselves – according to the experts – would be unable to withstand the pressure of firing a bullet due to the way the plastic is layered in the 3D printing process. One researcher from the 3D printing community even remarked, "they had better chance making a bow and arrow", when asked about those with malicious intent.”
“In the past couple of years, 3D printing has made itself a staple in the Nerf community, where about half of those in the estimated 5,000-strong community own a 3D printer. The technology allows hobbyists to forge more powerful blasters that greatly enhance their game. While store-bought blasters typically fire at about 80-100 feet per second, our resourceful hobbyists are known to modify blasters that propel their foam darts up to 150-200 feet per second. Also, modifications to the aesthetics and performance of blasters are shared among the community to encourage innovation and celebrate each other’s achievements. Mr Speaker, Sir, I am not sure about you, but as I learnt about this, I was delighted! The Government spends years and pours loads of resources for Singaporeans to pick up new technologies. But here we have a community that has eagerly adopted the exciting technology of 3D printing as an integral part of their interest. More than that, I am heartened by the community spirit they display in wanting to be responsible citizens as well. For example, modifications to blasters’ aesthetics that paint them black are frowned upon, as such realism might cause panic to the public. Hobbyists actively and responsibly refrain from such realism so as not to put the wider Nerf community’s interests at risk. And that is, indeed, thoughtful of the community. The 3D printing community has also come under the spotlight for good reason during the pandemic. I would like to raise the example of one Gerald Yeo from my constituency.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, given my background at the Singapore Economic Development Board and as a start-up founder, I am always excited by the proliferation of innovative technologies in Singapore. It is this appetite for and dedication to innovation that has put us on the map for seven consecutive years as the Asia Pacific’s most innovative nation, according to the Global Innovation Index. Imagine, Mr Speaker, Sir, being able to speak into existence virtually any object the mind can conceive. This is the enormous potential of the innovative technology we know as 3D printing. It has birthed communities fascinated by 3D printing’s ability to unleash their creativity with endless practical applications. Other than formal settings, such as professional manufacturers and designers or even academic institutions, 3D printing has found a place at the heart of several interest groups that tap on its versatility. Those passionate about drones, e-scooters, Nerf, Warhammers, even baking, and so many more, have found 3D printing to add incredible value to their hobbies and passions. Beyond its obvious economic benefits and industrial uses, 3D printing has also been an added catalyst for hobbyists resourceful enough to tap on it. For example, the Nerf community in Singapore, they have been around for many years, and this, traditionally, has been a competitive game involving the use of foam-based weaponry fired from primarily foam-based blasters. Hobbyists seek out and improvise their own arenas of play in parks or other spaces, where games are hosted and played by those within the Nerf community. Those who participate find this an exciting way to keep active and creative.”
“These choices should not be seen to be second-best options. Through implementing strong protective safety nets, we can remodel these choices into strong first choices that merely look different. We need to ensure that no one falls through the cracks, so that we can build for our women to reach for the stars. Mr Speaker Sir, I support the Budget adjustment.”
“Till today, Mdm H has yet to be paid for her services, but she has kindly deemed it to be an act of community service, even though she needed the money for her own family. Mr Speaker, in considering safety nets, we may need to look at the following. One, awareness and education. As micro-jobs and other non-traditional employment types come into play, we will need to educate both micro-jobbers and their service buyers of their obligations. Perhaps all micro-jobs below a certain amount needs to be cash upfront payments as an informal industry standard. Such informal practices are set by strong first movers and I look forward to the leadership by the CDCs. Two, contractual safety nets. Micro-jobs run into the danger of work agreements that are contracted with no overriding legal agreements set into place. This is especially so should the work be contracted with individuals as service buyers. Without dampening the spirit of the flexible nature of micro-jobs, it is necessary to look into some standards for issues such as payment terms and service waivers. We perhaps can take a page from the Public Transport Council that penalises and fines fare evaders through the Public Transport Council Act. Three, dispute management and mediation. Hassle-free escalation pathways need to be created to protect both micro-jobbers and their service buyers. In Mdm H’s case, she had no recourse other than herself to recover her service fees. She is not covered by the employment act, and TADM would be too large a blade to weld in her representation. Could we perhaps have a mediation hotline set up for a small fee for such cases? Micro-jobs and other non-traditional career pathways can be viable livelihood choices for women seeking to balance work with home.”
“She is both the sole breadwinner as well as the sole care-giver in her household. I was excited to hear from Deputy Prime Minister Heng that he will be setting up an initiative to look at creating micro-jobs in the community through the good and safe networks of our Community Development Councils or CDCs. Women need choices in their work arrangements and I believe that micro-jobbing would be something very welcomed in our communities. In my constituency work, I have come to recognise that more women are coming back to the workforce as part of their efforts to supplement their household incomes. However, in reconnecting with work, the issues that took women away from the workplace still remain. Their children and elderly loved ones still need caring for and women need to be able to be in full control of when they work, where they work and how they work. Thus, the prospects of in-community micro work will be an attractive option for many women. However, in enabling women with this option, we must be certain to be able to provide protection and safety nets. As micro-jobs pick up in popularity and leave the safe protective hands of the CDC and into the invisible hands of the free market, the House may need to consider some protective areas. Take Mdm H for example. She was contracted to look after an elderly for three hours while his family members went out for the afternoon. After four hours, the family had not returned, and Mdm H had to leave to pick up her granddaughter from school. The elderly she was caring for told her to come back another day for payment, as his family member had left him with no money to pay Mdm H.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, thank you for allowing me to speak on a topic that is professionally very important to me as the Director of the NTUC’s Women and Family unit, as well as a career woman in the making for the past 20 years of my life. Just two weeks ago, in my Secondary school alumni chat group, one of my alumni mates posed a question to the ladies in the chat group. She asked for our opinions as females progressing in our careers and workplaces. Mr Speaker, Sir, I may like to declare at this time, that I studied in an all-girls environment for 10 years of my life and it was not by design that we excluded men in our straw poll. Now, in that chat group, we have women born in the1970s, 1980s and even 1990s. Many are executives in MNCs, SMEs, some are business owners, recruiters, community leaders and we even have Members of Parliament in there – not just me, but also the hon Ms Carrie Tan. As the answers came in, I saw the most fulfilled and happiest of us, are women who are able to adapt well because they have the opportunity of choice. Due to these choices, they are able to move freely in and out of different work arrangements. Indeed, we all know of sisters, mothers, daughters in our lives who have made changes to their work and lives due to changing family responsibilities. These are women who have heeded the call of motherhood, taken on the role of being sole care-givers, stepped up to take on extra work in the face of job and wage cuts. I recently met with Ms L, who used to work 9 am to 6p m in the office as a manager, but now works full time as an interior designer at home to take care of her home-bound adult special needs brother. She intends to continue to make adjustments to her work and her life as her brother and her grow old together.”
“I thank the Minister of State for her response. Mr Speaker, Sir, I declare that I am the Director with the NTUC ARU unit. Usually, an employment agreement ties an employer with an employee legally. So, in this case, I understand that for Ms Parti Liyani, warning letters were issued to Mrs Liew as well as to Mr Karl Liew who were not her employers. So, in this case, may I ask if the MOM will be reviewing this and to see if the MOM would also be responding to why the letters were actually written to Mrs Liew as well as Mr Karl Liew?”
“Therefore, there is now a greater need for us to review the policy framework to safeguard the welfare of freelancers, to ensure they have adequate Medisave and retirement funds. This is why we also need to adjust our human resource policies and change the concept of employment, even as we embark on economic transformations. Only then can we attract more Singaporeans to take on jobs in the emerging industries and to build a more inclusive and diverse workplace with a Singaporean Core. (In English): Mr Speaker, I support the Motion. 3.06 pm”
“If an employee needs to take care of his family and wish to break up his work hours, will employers be receptive? This pandemic has prompted some women to return to the workforce to support their family. At the same time, they still have to take care of their family or elderly parents. They would prefer to work on project or freelance basis, so that they can manage their time more flexibly. I know a nurse who provides home nursing care. She is a kind and capable person who chooses to work night shifts. She has almost no rest days and is always toiling over her patients. I often wondered why she did not choose to work in the hospitals instead. We found out later that she worked so hard because she has to support her adult son, who has cerebral palsy. She is her son's only caregiver. She looks after him in the day, and works at night to earn a decent livelihood for her family after her son has gone to sleep. She is a great mother, taking care of her child in the day, and working hard as a home nurse to support the family at night. The situation that the nurse is in, is a common one faced by many. I believe that during this period, more women will become freelancers. Some have chosen to reenter the workforce as freelancers because of the economic hardship brought about by the COVID-19 pandemic, while others have chosen to go off the beaten path to pursue multiple career pathways. Whatever the reason, everyone hopes to supplement the family income by making use of pockets of their available time. In the future, the gig economy will become a common trend, and there will be greater needs from freelancers.”
“I believe that Singaporeans will only be able to build a rich national identity when we allow ourselves to deep dive into the richness of the lives around us. As many of us spend more time at home than ever before and as we are faced with the anxieties of this age, the bonds we have with our community are exposed. As the saying goes, 远亲不如近邻, better a close neighbour, than a distant relative. As much as the Government will work hard to build social safety nets and implement policies to ensure Singaporeans emerge from this pandemic stronger, norm is but a distant relative. When the rubber hits the road, it is our Singaporean community that must band together. It is these communities that Singaporeans can have to hope to be able to lean back on. In this House and in the many households across our Singapore, we must heed our President's call to embrace our plurality and diversity, under girding it with a deep appreciation of the lives of those around us. Then, and only then, can we work out community solutions that will allow us to become greater than the sum of our individual parts. Speaker, Sir, I shall continue in Mandarin. (In Mandarin): [Please refer to Vernacular Speech.] Mr Speaker Sir, earlier, I shared the challenges faced by our society as a result of COVID-19. While we work to overcome challenges of the outbreak, we must work even harder to resolve the economic crisis brought forth by COVID-19. I feel that while we actively promote training and transformation amongst workers so that they are equipped with future skills, and advocate for diversity at the workplace, we should also relook our definition of a "job". Is a "job" considered as one only if we work from nine to five?”
“The tired homemaker who has been moving furniture at odd hours could have her hours stretched in the daytime because there has been more people at home. It is on us to open our hearts to the stories that run deep and to extend a helping hand to those in the community who might need it. Sometimes, I wonder: have we been too quick to judge? When I was previously running my company, we had an employee who had been consistently putting in good performance. However, one day, the HR department came to me and raised some serious doubts. The employee had started to make a habit of sleeping on the job and it caused him to miss many calls. That was an issue because he was a call centre operative. But what we decided to do was to give him the benefit of the doubt and asked him about his recent performance. As a result and after quite some digging, we discovered that he had recently become the sole breadwinner in a family of seven, and that was because both his parents had lost their jobs because of COVID-19. In order to support his family, extended family actually, he had to take on extra work as a delivery driver from 10.00 pm to 4.00 am every day. Understanding his story helped me empathise with his situation and allowed us to work out a favourable solution, instead of releasing him on the basis of moonlighting and poor performance, we decided to adjust his working hours to allow him to come in to work later in the day and make up for the lost time over the weekends. When we are willing to listen, everyone is a winner. Be it at home or at work, it will go such a long way if we all fostered an interest in each other's lives and uncover the stories that lie beneath.”
“And all the shopkeepers need to do was to place their day's earnings in cash on the counter and could count on receiving a faultless chit the next time they came around. My father, the neighbourhood doctor, delighted in the service he provided to the community. There were many occasions where he did not take money from patients because they could not afford it. However, without fail, we would receive a gift at our doorsteps from them. If they raise chickens, would get eggs; and if they made sauces, we would a bottle. The kindness and trust I saw in the community were not naive. It did not ignore the challenges and struggles that faced the community but stood strong despite these trials. When times were tough Uncle Muhammad had to sell his business and started selling magazines under the bridge, but it never did break his spirit. It never caused us to turn cold towards each other. The bond that held us together as a community ran deeper and would not tear at the sound of trouble. This was because of the intimate interest we had in each other's lives. My dad knew Uncle Muhammad both as a patient and as his friend. My mom knew his wife, Aunty Gowri, and the troubles she had raising three children. And I knew one of their daughters and chatted with her often when we were growing up. Within the community, we knew the challenges others faced, and we knew the stories behind these faces and, more importantly, the stories behind the challenges. In the same way, my hope for Singaporeans is that we will continue to be champions for kindness in the community, built on understanding and apathy towards the challenges others in our community might face. The incessant shouting you might have been hearing at home could actually be a couple in financial distress.”
“Mr Speaker, there is indeed a pressing need for solidarity and a shared sense of identity that is crucial to tide us over these uncertain times. The pandemic has posed a threat to Singaporeans in two key spheres – at home and at work. Just as these anxieties have, at a global level, caused governments to turn inwards, it is increasingly tempting for us, as a people, to do the same. This could bring us down the slippery slope of apathy and distrust. Therefore, at every juncture, we must evaluate the lengths to which we go in the name of self-preservation and what it would cost us as a people. I would like to paint a picture from my childhood where I spent much of my days in a row of shophouses along Holland Drive where my father had his clinic. Though I have not been back there in the past decade since his passing, I have fond memories of the sincerity and kindness the community lived by. I remember the neighbourhood and the people living in the neighbourhood as if it was yesterday. Right next to my father's clinic was the neighbourhood hair salon run by aunties. It was the neighbourhood water-cooler where residents came by, not just for the latest fashion tips, but also to find out how they are neighbours were doing. Further down the street was a stationery shop run by Uncle Muhammad, an Indian-Muslim from India. He would affectionately call me Ling Ling every time I came back, and remembered the comics I like to read. And I never left his shop without a sweet in hand that he would give me. At Tat Lee Bank next door, all their businesses ran on the currency of trust. Our neighbourhood sole proprietors and hawkers knew the names of the bank staff and sometimes, even those of their families, their children, their spouses.”