Chris Bryant
MP for Rhondda and Ogmore · Labour · United Kingdom
“I detected the Duran Duran quotes there. It is important that we are able to secure mutual recognition of professional standards; otherwise, we do not have full business mobility. That is one of the key things we are trying to sort out with the European Union at the moment.”
“Or deviate. Or repeat! I do not want to exaggerate, but this may be the most significant iconic moment for the UK and Switzerland since Sean Connery and Ursula Andress met one another in “Dr. No” back in 1962. [ Interruption ] —no exaggeration at all, of any kind.”
“The outcomes of the deal will support the discovery and development of new medicines, and it does not change UK legislation or practice, maintaining the existing balance between supporting pharmaceutical innovation and the NHS’s access to lower-cost generic medicines.”
“On top of this, we know that Swiss-owned businesses employed around 150,000 people in the UK in 2024, and bilateral foreign direct investment stood at £87 billion at the end of 2024. The agreement we have reached ensures that job creation and investment will continue to grow as our bilateral trade grows.”
“Of course, we also have to protect key sectors, and we will never compromise on animal welfare or food standards just to get a deal. This last year, this Government have made good on that responsibility. We secured the best deal with the USA of any country in the world.”
“One of the great things about Northern Ireland, of course, is that it gets the double benefit of being both in the European single market and in the UK’s single market. That has undoubted benefits. If I could point to one tiny area where having left the European Union has caused us an enormous headache this year, it would be steel.”
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“Their intent sometimes mixes a desire for cash with a desire for some kind of spurious infamy, but I just think of all of them as criminals. As for my inimitable style, I can neither confirm nor deny it.”
“The right hon. Gentleman makes a very good point about personal data. When I was the data Minister, that was one of the things I was trying to push very strongly—there is no point in trying to get people to give data if it is not then secure. That is the single most important part of what we have to do, not least because if people do not trust that their data is going to be secure, it is perfectly understandable that they are not going to surrender it. That does not just apply to Government, although it is very important in Government; it applies across all sorts of different companies. I slightly take issue with the right hon. Gentleman’s delineation of those three groups; I think there is just one, which is a bunch of criminals.”
“No, I meant that every country in the world is increasingly susceptible, not just the UK. This is a growing business, and the worst thing we could do would be to feed that business model. I would urge caution about one thing. It may well be that we do not know all the incidents that have taken place, because understandably, lots of companies will not want to make them known publicly if they feel that they have managed to deal with the issue fairly swiftly. That is why, as I said, we consulted on the issue of ransomware earlier this summer, and I was gratified by the response we had from more than 70% of businesses.”
“The hon. Member is right. For that matter, I suspect that every single Member of the House will have had some kind of attempted cyber-attack, whether that is phishing or vishing or whatever it may be on their mobile phones, where something comes up that looks remarkably possible. Then you say to yourself, “Oh, no, HMRC probably wouldn’t ask me to do that.” I urge all Members, incidentally, to take their own personal cyber-security seriously, and the House provides facilities for that. One other thing that we can do is for all companies to follow the cyber governance code of practice and provide board training. The more that board members understand these issues, the better.”
“Basically, every organisation in the country should be considering whether they might be the next under attack. It is possible that there might already have been an attempted attack on them. Obviously, iconic brands such as M&S and JLR are possible candidates in that sense, but I urge all organisations to take these issues seriously, because the costs are dramatic, both financially and in staff power.”
“The hon. Member is absolutely right that it is not just about big companies, listed companies or, for that matter, big organisations in the public sphere; it is also about much smaller ones, which may have all sorts of different attacks. I am not sure whether she is asking for financial support.”
“Ah, she is. I saw the nod. I am not sure how Hansard records a nod, other than the fact that I have now said it. The important point is making sure that everybody has an understanding that cyber-security is important to every single organisation, big or small, and the services of the state are there to help.”
“The primary relationship is between my Department, because we have responsibility for businesses and making sure that they can prosper in the future, the Department for Science, Innovation and Technology, as represented by my hon. Friend the Member for Vale of Glamorgan (Kanishka Narayan) here, and the Minister for Security in the Home Office, but the hon. Member makes a good point. The MOD has an equal responsibility for ensuring that we are all secure. Mr Speaker, I am sure that some kind of digital identification service will be available for identifying the right MP to call.”
“In fact, the first of these big cyber-attacks was on the British Library, which is an arm’s length body of the Department for Culture, Media and Sport, so some of these lessons were taught immediately to Government. The hon. Member is absolutely right, and we need to make sure across every Department that not only is data—personal data and all other kinds of data—secure where it needs to be, if it is not open-source, but that cyber-attacks can be rebuffed, spotted and prevented at all costs. That is an ongoing piece of work between the different parts of Government. When we are able to bring forward the cyber Bill in the very near future—sorry, soon—I hope that we will be able to address some of these things and discuss them in the round in the House.”
“If I might, Madam Deputy Speaker, I will start with an apology. As I told the shadow Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport, the hon. Member for Droitwich and Evesham (Nigel Huddleston), last night, I am not able to be here for the end of this debate—I do apologise.”
“When it came to the lettuce-defying catastrophe known as the Liz Truss premiership, the shadow Business Secretary was not just a casual supporter; he was the Financial Secretary to the Treasury. He actually helped to put together that disastrous Budget. He was not just in the room when it happened, to quote “Hamilton”; he held the pen! He was Kwasi’s amanuensis; he was Truss’s handmaiden. This is a man who could not see the writing on the wall even if it were spitting out fire 50 metres high. Even when the Bank of England had been forced to act to shore up the economy following the mini-Budget, he went out to defend it.”
“Well, I am glad that people like me being here—that is very kind. I am not going to be kind for the rest of my speech, so the shadow Business Secretary, the hon. Member for Arundel and South Downs (Andrew Griffith), should not get used to that. What an absolute joy it is to see the shadow Business Secretary up close. He must think that amnesia has hit the whole country. I mean, he was the business adviser to Boris Johnson—and we know what expletive Boris Johnson used when referring to business, don’t we? Did the shadow Business Secretary resign as a Minister when all the others were resigning, though? Oh no, he lashed himself to the Boris Johnson mast until the very end. In February of last year, still he was calling for the return of Johnson. But that is not all, is it?”
“He likes the additional spending on the NHS, he approves of our spending on prisons, he supports more spending on policing, and he clamours for more spending on defence—and, no doubt, on trains, telecoms, universities and schools—but he does not want to pay for it, which is why it is as plain as a pikestaff that he has not changed a bit. He would re-run the Truss mini-Budget in the twinkling of an eye. It was doolally economics when Truss introduced it and it is doolally economics today. I give you, Madam Deputy Speaker, the Minister for doolally economics. Let me deal with two specific points that he made.”
“They don’t like it up ’em, do they, Madam Deputy Speaker? The shadow Business Secretary then said, “We think they’re the right plans because those plans make our economy competitive.” The problem with the argument that he has made today is that he has not learned a single thing since that mini-Budget. He still wants us to tax less and spend more at the same time. Yes, of course he wants to reverse the national insurance increase, but does he point to where the money should come from? No, of course he doesn’t.”
“Did they bring in any amendment that would have improved the situation for hospitality? Nary a one. We recognise the vital role that hospitality businesses play in driving economic growth and strengthening economic cohesion across the country. That is why from 2026-27, this Government intend to introduce permanently lower tax rates for retail, hospitality and leisure properties with rateable values of less than £500,000. That is a permanent tax cut to ensure that hospitality benefits from much-needed certainty and support.”
“I will make a couple of points; then of course I will give way to the Father of the House. The shadow Business Secretary condemned what he calls the reduction in retail hospitality and leisure business rates relief from 75% to 40% for 2025-26. Does the House note the sleight of hand there? When the Conservatives left office, they had no plans to extend the business rates relief beyond the financial year, and hospitality was facing a complete cliff edge, going from 75% relief to zero relief—so I am proud that our Chancellor introduced the 40% relief. I am also proud that the Government are creating a fairer business rates system that will protect the high street, support investment and is fit for the 21st century. The Conservatives had 14 years to do that.”
“I will be very straightforward with the right hon. Gentleman: of course we recognise the problems that small businesses are having—I have heard from many—and I am about to come to the issue of national insurance contributions, which I accept, of course, have provided difficulties to many different businesses. However, it is all very well everyone campaigning against the tax, but if they are not prepared to say where the billions are to come from otherwise, then they will the ends but they do not will the means.”
“I am more of a Chelsea bun person than an iced bun person, but my hon. Friend makes a good point: there are businesses up and down the country opening anew and afresh. Far from such businesses dismissing the opportunity of having a national health service that works more effectively, a rail service that works effectively and a secure set of working rights for people; they welcome that provision, and they want people to have a proper wage when in work because they know that motivates their staff better.”
“Gentleman—because he does not seem to understand the facts—that the hospitality sector is made up predominantly of smaller businesses, and we took decisive steps to protect the smallest businesses from the impact of the increase in employer national insurance by increasing the employment allowance from £5,000 to £10,500. That means that 865,000 employers will pay no employer national insurance contributions at all this year and that more than half of all employers will either gain or see no change. Employers will be able to employ up to four full-time workers on the national living wage without paying a penny of employer national insurance contributions.”
“I agree. I note that an awful lot of Conservative MPs are saying, “Oh, they’re Swedish”, as if foreign investment in the UK were a bad idea. [ Interruption. ] Yes, that is what they were doing—they can furrow their brows as much as they want. The shadow Secretary of State pointed to the increases in employer national insurance contributions. Yes, of course the Government have taken a number of difficult but necessary decisions on tax, welfare and spending to fix the public finances, to fund public services and to restore economic stability after the situation that we inherited from the previous Administration, but I have to point out to the hon.”
“I passionately support what we have done about the national minimum wage. I remember when we had to sit through the night in this Chamber to ensure that the national minimum wage was introduced in the first place; incidentally, I remember that the Liberal Democrats voted against that, as well as the Conservatives. We want people who work for a decent number of hours every week to be able to put food on the table, pay a mortgage and give their children the opportunities in life that they may not have been able to achieve. That is why it is important that in this sector, perhaps above all other sectors, we ensure that people are properly paid.”
“We are not taxing them out of existence, as I have tried to explain to the hon. Gentleman. He is another one of those people who is awfully nice when you meet him in the bar— [ Interruption. ] The shadow Secretary of State is saying that that sounds terrible, but he was saying earlier that every single pint that is pulled represents an increase to the economy, so the hon. Member for Meriden and Solihull East (Saqib Bhatti) helped out. The point that I am trying to make—not very well—is that it is impossible to simply say, “We are not going to tax,” and still want to see the same level of expenditure. That is what got us into the trouble in the Truss Budget, and for family finances that meant—”
“I will not give way again. That meant that mortgage rates rose faster than they have ever risen in our history, which made it almost impossible for people to survive economically.”
“The honest truth is that the UK hospitality sector is absolutely amazing. Whether it is the Lake district, the night life in Manchester and London, the gastropubs in the Cotswolds, the movie locations up and down the land, the Royal Oaks, the White Harts, the Red Lions, the Prospect of Whitbys, the Moon Under Waters, the Eagle and Childs, Bamburgh castle, Chester zoo, which I loved visiting last week to feed the giraffes, the British Museum, all the V&As and the Tates, Windsor castle—the pub and the castle—Stratford-upon-Avon—”
“The right hon. Gentleman makes a perfectly legitimate point. No, of course I do not want that. I want the police officers in my constituency to be policing the streets, as my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care said this morning, not policing tweets or private conversations between individuals— [ Interruption. ] I have made my point. The police in my constituency, where, incidentally, we lost large numbers of police officers during the time that the Conservative Government were in office, are hard pressed enough to deal with the problems they have without trying to take on ludicrous and preposterous elements as well. My biggest complaint about the speech made by the hon. Member for Arundel and South Downs is that he is so determined to do down the Government that he ends up dragging down the sector as well.”
“Whether it is St Mary Redcliffe, Canterbury cathedral, the O2 or the Stadium of Light, we should celebrate every single part of our hospitality industry across the whole of the UK and be proud that we are British.”
“One of the arguments I have been trying to make is that as much as I love Stratford-upon-Avon—which, incidentally, is very difficult to get to by train; that is one of the things I would dearly love for us to sort out—a lot of international tourists come only to London and the south-east and perhaps to Oxford, Cambridge, Stratford and Edinburgh. I want them to see the whole diversity of the hospitality industry and the tourism sector across the whole of the United Kingdom.”
“Yes, and I would add another point to that. In Stratford-upon-Avon, as in many other parts of the United Kingdom, the hospitality industry, the tourism industry and the creative industries are intrinsically bound together. A number of people will go to the theatre, stay in a hotel, go to the Lazy Duck or one of the other pubs—apparently other pubs are available in Stratford-upon-Avon—and go to the most visited church in England, which is in Stratford-upon-Avon. It is a multifarious concoction of different industries that fit together, which is why we need to try to foster all of them so that they can all flourish together. The hon. Lady makes a very good point.”
“I was looking in the direction of the right hon. Gentleman, so I think I will have to take his intervention first. I will then take an intervention from my hon. Friend.”
“At nearly every meeting that I have with any sector in my portfolio, the sector says to me, “Can we have a cut in VAT?” While people in the hospitality sector have said to me many times that they would like a cut in VAT, that is also said by people in the theatre industry and a whole series of others. These are matters for the Chancellor, not for me, as the right hon. Gentleman well knows. The right hon. Gentleman is absolutely right about islands. We are an island nation, and we should embrace that as part of our tourism and hospitality industry across the whole of the UK. Specific challenges arise for coastal areas and islands, and I hope we will be able to address those when we come to produce our tourism strategy later this year. I will take an intervention from my hon.”
“The number of international visitors who come to the UK solely for a premiership match is very large, but the number of people who went to the theatre last year in the UK is double the number who went to a premiership match, so we need to get the whole of this sector moving as much as we possibly can. We need to make sure that there is investment in the right parts of the sector, and that that investment takes place across the whole of the United Kingdom.”
“When an international visitor comes to the UK, they bring dollars, euros, yen or whatever it may be to the UK. That is a net gain to our economy, but I argue that when a domestic visitor decides, “You know what? I’m not going to go to Spain this year, because I know that there is so much here,” they will then stay in the UK, and that is a net gain for us as well. Frankly, there is also a climate in the summer in the UK that is rather more agreeable for human beings nowadays. We need to explore all those different elements. My hon. Friend referred to the east end of London. Of course, quite a lot of sporting events happen in the east end of London, and sport is just as much of an intrinsic part of why people come to this country.”
“One of the first things I did when I became the Minister was to set an ambitious target of reaching 50 million international visitors to the UK by 2030; we are at something like 43 million visitors at the moment. If we are going to get to that target of 50 million visitors, we will have to ensure that we have the mix of accommodation across the whole United Kingdom. That poses some challenges around how we deal with short-term lets to ensure that there is more of an even playing field and that coastal areas and areas that are heavily dependent on tourism do not end up being completely denuded when the tourists go away at the end of the season. We need to do more to extend the season so that it is not just the summer months. We can do a whole series of things to ensure that that happens, but this is not just about international visitors.”
“I am not going to do the Chancellor’s job, but we have no plans to introduce a tourism tax. Of course we are looking at different places in the country that have gone forward in different ways—Manchester, for instance, has a system that has been voluntarily agreed, and there is the situation in Scotland and in Wales, which the hon. Gentleman referred to. We want to look at how all of that progresses, but many people in the sector have made the point to me that they feel taxed enough. I do not know that we would want to add any more to that. As I say, there is a job of work to be done on short-term lets, because it seems intrinsically unfair for somebody who is effectively providing hotel-like accommodation to not be subject to any of the same rules, or the same taxation, that a hotel—even a small hotel—would be.”
“The hospitality and tourism sectors are the beating heart of our towns, cities and rural economies, as the hon. Member for Arundel and South Downs (Andrew Griffith) said. They are vital to our high streets. They provide jobs and skills for young people, entry routes into work for those who might otherwise be excluded from work, and vital social spaces that bind our communities together. This Government will continue to back them with action, not rhetoric. Finally, I encourage every single Member of the House to find a business in the sector—not in their constituency, but in somebody else’s—that they can boost this weekend.”
“We are slashing red tape to overhaul planning and licensing rules, making it quicker and easier for new cafés, bars and music venues to open in place of disused shops, and we are increasing access to finance for entrepreneurs through a massive £4 billion finance boost. We are ending the scourge of late payments, which cost the UK economy £11 billion annually and close 38 businesses daily. That is another issue that is repeatedly raised with me. We are not complacent at all about the sector. We want to get 50 million international visitors to the UK by 2030. As was mentioned earlier, we are preparing to publish a visitor economy growth strategy later this year. It will set out how the UK can capitalise on global opportunities, increase investments and strengthen the long-term resilience of the sector.”
“Representatives of the sector have repeatedly told me that there is a skills shortage, particularly of people who are five or 10 years into the sector. We want more people to stay, because nearly every chief executive you meet in the sector is somebody who started on the shop floor—pulling pints, working as a barista, changing beds or something like that. For us as a Labour Government, this sector is essential to social mobility. In July, the Government set out our plan for small businesses, which is the most comprehensive package of support for small and medium-sized businesses in a generation and will be transformational for the sector.”
“The sector-based work academy programmes have seen nearly 10,000 starts in hospitality over less than two years, and we have extended the destination hospitality SWAPs to 26 areas across England, which aim to specifically help jobseekers gain the skills and experience needed to enter employment in hospitality and tourism. The one area in which I agree with the shadow Minister is that this is a unique sector in one sense: that a person can go from having no skills, no qualifications and no experience to being a skilled worker in the sector within six to nine months. That is absolutely transformational for many people, and I want to make sure that more young people in this country do not think of it just as a job, but as a career.”
“I have just binned that bit of the speech, Madam Deputy Speaker. When the Government took office, the sector was already under strain. The aftermath of the pandemic and the cost of living crisis left hospitality and tourism businesses facing real difficulties. In particular, domestic tourism had struggled to get back to pre-pandemic numbers, which is still the case in many parts of the country. We inherited a very distressed sector, but we have acted quickly and decisively to stabilise it, supporting jobs and laying the foundations for growth. We continue our work to get people into jobs, in collaboration with the Department for Work and Pensions.”
“I am always happy to make representations to the Chancellor on lots of different things, but I have no intention of sharing them with the House.”
“That is matched with the deal that the Ivors Academy is doing with Sony, for £100,000 a year. We have to invest in the songwriters of the future, so that we have the strong music industry we want for the future, but I am not impressed by his fur-coatery.”
“I made this point several times. In the EU, there is an equitable renumeration clause in legislation, and if we felt the need for that, we could progress that. However, after our really good discussions with all the parties, I am very confident that all of them want to comply with this package. I will make one other point about songwriters. Lots of people know the famous names we all talk about—the hon. Gentleman referred to Ed Sheeran, Oasis and so on—but a lot of those who really deliver are the songwriters; they create the things that rattle around our brains for years and years. Making sure that they are not out of pocket was one of the really important principles I wanted to adopt. I am really proud that, for the first time, there will be per diems—£75 a day, plus expenses—to make sure that no songwriter is out of pocket.”
“Some people who signed a contract before streaming came into existence might have been on a rate of something like 8%, 9%, 10% or 11%. They will be able to negotiate that up to a digital right more like 20%, 25% or 30%. That will make a significant difference to legacy artists. Many people have made the very strong point that it is all very well increasing the number of streams of a legacy artist’s work, but if they do not get any more money as a result, that will not really benefit either the record label or the legacy artist. I am very confident that this package will deliver. The hon. Gentleman asked about having a review in 18 months’ time. I can do better than that: as I have said, we will review this in 12 months’ time, because if the package has not delivered, we reserve the right to bring in legislation.”
“It has taken a Labour Government to sit down with industry and creators to make sure that we delivered a change for people. The hon. Gentleman asks what happens if people fail to comply. I am absolutely confident that all the labels that we are talking about will want to adopt the principles, because they have been part of the negotiating process. We had to have tough conversations at various points, but they have signed up to the principles and will deliver on them. I am confident that if any legacy artist says to their label, “I want to renegotiate my contract,” they will have a chance to renegotiate, although the precise terms of that renegotiation will of course be a matter for the artist and the label.”
“Incidentally, I see that the former shadow Secretary of State is here, the right hon. Member for Daventry (Stuart Andrew), now shadow Secretary of State for Health and Social Care. We wish him well in his new job. It is a great delight to hear from the hon. Member for Old Bexley and Sidcup (Mr French), but he is always so grumpy when he actually wants to say, “Well done.” I do not know about you, Madam Deputy Speaker, but I sometimes think of the Conservatives as the “all fur coat and nothing else” party, because they make nice statements but never actually do anything. It is fascinating to hear him say, “We have a concern about the remuneration of musicians.” Why did they do absolutely nothing on this subject when they were in government?”
“Friend is absolutely right that Lord Brennan, who was on the Select Committee, was one of the driving forces making sure that there was not only a first report, but a second report in the last Parliament; he held the Government’s feet to the fire. I am determined to do precisely the same when it comes to the record labels. I honestly believe that we will now have one of the best arrangements in the world for the remuneration of artists from streaming, and I am sure that the record labels will stick with the arrangement.”
“First of all, can I wish—was it Big Huge New Circle? [ Interruption. ] Yes, Big Huge New Circle. So we have got it in Hansard three times now. I will take my fee later—10% obviously. Or 15%; it is 15% for lots of agents these days. Obviously, the future of the music industry in the UK depends on having a pipeline. The single most important thing we can do is make sure that every single child has an opportunity to be a musician at school. Creative education in our schools not only delivers by providing musicians, but is a force multiplier for lots of other forms of education. That is something on which I am working very closely with the Department for Education. I note that Lord Brennan is up in the Gallery—that is another song from music hall, I think. My hon.”
“Julie Andrews, when she took the role of Maria in “The Sound of Music”, decided—or this is how the negotiation ended up—that she would just take an up-front free, and she never got paid any royalties thereafter. That was probably a poor decision, or she was not given any other choice. However, I think Schwarzenegger, when he made movies, quite often decided to take the royalties and did not take any up-front fees. Different artists will enter renegotiation in different ways, but we wanted to rebalance the equation so that it is more in the interests of the musicians, and that is what we have done.”
“We will be looking at precisely how that happens. If anybody is not happy with their renegotiation, we have included in the principles a means of appealing. That is obviously a major role of the Musicians’ Union, but if by the autumn we suddenly find that lots of musicians are saying, “Excuse me, but I haven’t managed to renegotiate with my label”, then we will be returning to this issue. The record labels are fully aware of that, but they are determined: each is going to put together a bespoke package to try to revitalise legacy work. They are also looking at wiping off unrecouped balances and making sure people can earn more into the future. The one thing I have always been nervous about it is that I do not think Governments should be writing contracts. This is really important.”
“I think the hon. Member is in danger of becoming a national treasure herself. [ Interruption. ] Oh, I see that I have not united the House on that, but— [ Interruption. ] The right hon. Member for Daventry cannot keep heckling; he is the shadow Health Secretary now. The important point is that the hon. Member for Harpenden and Berkhamsted (Victoria Collins) asked what confidence we can have that this will be adhered to, and I am very confident that it will. I have had face-to-face conversations with all the chief executives of the major record labels, and although sometimes I have been asking them to go further, they have gone that extra mile, and I am absolutely sure that they will deliver on this. I am confident that any legacy artist who wants to renegotiate their contract will be able to do so.”