Jeremy Corbyn
MP for Islington North · Your Party · United Kingdom
“In two minutes, I will do my best, Sir Desmond. I am proud to represent a very small urban area of Britain in which, over the years, we have managed to increase the number of parks and open spaces.”
“I grew up in a country area where we had a competition over who heard the first cuckoo in spring. It is that sort of change in understanding that we have to bring about if we are to win this debate on biodiversity and sustainability on our planet. The Government are pledged to the 30by30 target for the oceans.”
“We have to address the wider issue, which is the pollution emanating from our towns, cities and industries into our rivers and the water companies that do not deal with it. I have 13 seconds left, so I will simply say this: it is great that the House has come back to this issue and that so many Members want to speak today.”
“I congratulate the right hon. Member on becoming Prime Minister and on his stamina at taking questions for already even longer than the longest world cup match. He has said some helpful and useful things about housing, particularly on rough sleeping.”
“Surely the obvious answer is to bring in some kind of ceiling—a rent control of some sort—to the sector, and immediately look at not postponing the rise in the local housing allowance, but to bring real relief to people who are desperately up against it and subsidising their rent out of their benefits.”
“When the hon. Member for Harrow East (Bob Blackman) introduced the debate, he quite rightly drew attention to the huge work done by our constituency and parliamentary staff. It is right that we should thank them on this occasion and also thank all the parliamentary staff for what they do.”
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“There are a lot of things that we can do, but they require imagination. A water company, whose sole interest is in making money out of the water industry, will not be interested in that. That is why the public must have a voice in this process, and that is what the Bill ensures. The levels of pollution are truly shocking—the sewage that flows in and the danger to all of us. The water we drink is not pure and it is not clean, because there is a limit to how much scrubbing of water can be done to make it clean. We end up drinking all kinds of foul things in our water, not to mention the microplastics that exist because of the excessive use of plastic water bottles as people do not trust the water supply. It breaks my heart.”
“If we deforest further upstream, build on floodplains and prevent the river following its natural course, we end up with flooding. There are lots of small-scale natural defences one can have against flooding, such as not building on floodplains, having rivers meandering rather than flowing in straight lines, and letting beavers build their dams on streams and so on. There are a whole lot of solutions, all of which add up to something valuable and good. That will not be thought about by water companies; it is done with imagination. Farmers in Shropshire are promoting exactly that kind of solution. Likewise, what happened with the River Parrett, which had excessive flooding, has partly been resolved—but not completely—by the Environment Agency recreating peat bogs up in the hills.”
“Well, there you go. Thank you very much indeed. I will finish with a couple of points. This country now suffers serious flooding almost every year. We have all experienced the pain that our constituents and others face as a result. Part, but not all, of that is brought about by unusual weather patterns and excessive rainfall. We also need to think seriously about natural river management and natural flood prevention; that is specified in the Bill, and is important. The city of York, for example, is at a confluence of rivers. It has always been in danger of flooding, because it has these rivers flowing into it. There could be a combination of solutions. One is, yes, flood defence walls, concrete barriers and so on to protect central York from flooding. However, there is also the management of what happens upstream.”
“I agree with what the hon. Member is saying about levels of pollution. Does he really think that United Utilities is a fit and proper organisation to carry on supplying water? Does he not think that somebody else should be doing it—like us?”
“Could I take the hon. Member back to the question of farming pollution? Does she feel that the problem is too many pesticides being used in farming, too large fields, or an inability to restore the natural drainage systems, such as ditches, which lead to water going into groundwater, rather than rushing down and filling and polluting our rivers?”
“There are 4.3 million children living in poverty in our society, and 1.2 million people in receipt of PIP are about to lose it following the statement last week. The Chancellor has put a huge amount of money into defence. Could she not think for a moment of reversing the decision last week to take £5 billion out of the welfare budget, and of ending the two-child benefit cap, which has driven so many children and families into really desperate poverty?”
“Like the right hon. Member for Herne Bay and Sandwich (Sir Roger Gale), I have visited Calais on a number of occasions, and I have met people there who are desperate. They are victims of war, human rights abuses, environmental degradation and sheer poverty and desperation. They do not cross the channel without a reason to do it. What conversations is the Minister having with those in European countries, north Africa and the middle east about the root causes of the huge numbers of people globally who are seeking asylum at the present time? Inhumanity and deportation will not work.”
“I strongly support what the hon. Lady is saying, and any specific protection for chalk streams. Does she feel that the Bill goes far enough on that, or is specific legislation needed to preserve these beautiful, almost unique things that we have in this country?”
“Millions around the world saw in real time last night the destruction of life, the loss of children’s lives, more destruction and the Israeli attempt to annex northern Gaza, if not the whole of Gaza. That is clearly what the whole agenda is about. Israel continues to commit war crimes through the denial of food, water and electricity to the people of Gaza. Will the British Government confirm that they are in breach of international law? Secondly, will we cease all military co-operation with Israel, including arms supplies and the use of RAF Akrotiri as a staging point for the delivery of weapons?”
“I compliment the Transport Committee and its Chair on this report, which, from what I have read so far, is absolutely excellent. I have two very short points for the hon. Lady. In London, ticket offices were closed by Transport for London some time ago. Does the report include anything about the possibility of reopening those ticket offices or having better information available for people, particularly those with sight or hearing difficulties, going to stations? Secondly, there are still a large number of underground stations with no lift access whatsoever. What evidence has she had that Transport for London will bring forward a programme to make all underground stations fully accessible for everyone?”
“That leads to the second question: if we, as a country, knowingly accept that Israel is in breach of international law and continue to provide it with the weapons with which people can be killed in Gaza then we ourselves, as a country, also become complicit in breaches of international law. Those laws are there for a purpose, to try to prevent genocide and the crimes against humanity that are happening before our very eyes.”
“We watch people being starved to death in front of our very eyes, while there is food aplenty just a few kilometres away, deliberately denied to them by a decision of Israel. That is a war crime. We have to be quite clear about that. In a statement in the Chamber yesterday, in response to the G7 summit that the Foreign Secretary had attended, I asked a specific question about international law and the war crimes that I believe Israel has committed. He, it seemed to me, conceded that Israel was in breach of international law. That is quite significant. Presumably, there are many Foreign Office briefings going around saying that Israel is in breach of those laws.”
“I am grateful to the hon. Member for Leicester South (Shockat Adam) for securing the debate, as well as the authoritative way in which he introduced it. Last night, 400 more people died in Gaza as a result of direct bombardment in breach of the ceasefire. At the same time, Israel is denying access to food, water and supply of electricity to the people of Gaza, who are now going through the most ghastly time ever, on top of all the horrors they have been through over more than a year. So many people—69,000—are now known to be dead there, and more bodies are found every day that rubble is cleared away. Those who survive will forever live with survivor’s guilt for the fact that they survived while all their friends and family died around them. This is devastation beyond belief on live television all around the world.”
“What exactly is going on at RAF Akrotiri? What was it that the Prime Minister on his visit there said he could not talk about, but there was lots of it going on? That was a very strange statement and comment to make on television at that time. Why are so many flights going from Akrotiri to Israel? What is happening, as the hon. Member for Leicester South mentioned, to the information collected by those flights over Gaza? Is all the information collected going to be provided to the ICC and the ICJ to pursue their investigations, if they request it? The 300 licences that still exist have been increased by another recently approved 34—”
“I will be brief, Ms Jardine, because we need to get through the debate and have the Front Benchers speak. I endorse what the hon. Gentleman said. I attended the International Court of Justice hearing, where South Africa presented an historic and brilliant case that led to that historic opinion being offered by the court. I was also at The Hague for the launch of the Hague declaration by a number of nations that have dedicated themselves to pursue support for the ICJ and ICC decisions diplomatically, and recognise that Israel is in breach of the fourth Geneva convention on the obligations on occupying powers in countries, which applies to Israel in Gaza and the west bank. I believe the Hague declaration is an important step forward. I would be grateful if the Minister would answer some specific points.”
“This whole statement is predicated on saving £5 billion at the expense of people with disabilities in our society. Anyone who has been through the trauma of trying to apply for a personal independence payment knows about the intrusive nature of the questioning, and about the great difficulty of obtaining that payment and then continuing to receive it in future. The Secretary of State’s statement has caused consternation and dismay to many people around the country—particularly those with disabilities—who are understandably alarmed that their benefits will go down and that they will live in greater poverty as a result. Can she say with hand on heart that no disabled person will be worse off after her statement, or will that £5 billion be taken at the expense of those in our society who already live the most difficult lives?”
“The Foreign Secretary described the blocking of aid to Gaza in his statement as “appalling” and “unacceptable”. Why does he not also confirm that it is illegal and in breach of international law, as is the continued bombardment of Gaza and the bombardment of the west bank? When will the British Government finally say to Israel, “We will no longer supply weapons to you and we will no longer continue security co-operation while you continue to illegally occupy territory and commit war crimes in both Gaza and the west bank”?”
“I thank the hon. Member for her excellent speech and for the brilliant event that was organised last night. Does she agree that many brave black parents in the late 1960s, and even earlier than that, recognised the abominable way in which their children were being treated, including people like Bernard Coard who led the campaign against the banding policy in Haringey? At that time, black children were unfairly treated and classified in the way that the hon. Member has described, and we should pay tribute to the brave work of those people and acknowledge the abuse that those families suffered because they stood up for their rights. Her debate today and the meeting she held last night are a testament to the efforts that they put in all those years ago.”
“I thank the Minister for coming to the House and making what is a very important statement today. Is he able to make any comment on the continuing presence of foreign troops in Syria? Russian, Turkish, American and Israeli forces are presently occupying at least the demilitarised zone just beyond the Golan heights. What pressure is being applied for the withdrawal of those forces and the cessation of their military activities within Syria, to give Syria an opportunity to bring this appalling period to a conclusion, hopefully with peace and justice in the future?”
“Some 61,000 people are already dead in Gaza, there is a rising death toll in the west bank and, as the right hon. Member for Gainsborough pointed out, the Israeli Government are encouraging the settlement policy. Let us have some transparency and let us hold our Government to account so that we can play our part in bringing about peace and justice for the people of the region.”
“Today, the death toll in Gaza has exceeded 61,000; two Israeli officials are now warranted by the ICC for war crimes; and Britain has played a highly influential role in all of that. A recent report by the British Palestinian Committee outlined the extent of that relationship, including the sale of weapons, the supply of intelligence and the use of RAF bases in Cyprus. Many of us have repeatedly objected to the use of those bases, and the continuing supply of weapons. We must pursue all the avenues that we can for an independent inquiry and some transparency about what is going on. Our Government—both the current and previous Governments—have supplied weapons, have supplied intelligence and have allowed the use of the RAF bases in Akrotiri.”
“I wrote yesterday to the Prime Minister to ask that he initiate a Chilcot-style inquiry into the whole gamut of policies in relation to Israel, Palestine and the conduct of this war. I think that we, as a country, need examine ourselves in this, and what we have actually done over the past few years. I say that with respect to both the current and previous Governments, because some of us were in the previous Parliament or previous Parliaments before that. Indeed, the right hon. Member for Gainsborough and myself have been here for an equal length of time; it is just that he signed the book 15 minutes earlier than I did on that fateful day in 1983. I compliment him on his speed. In my letter, I put the following points to the Prime Minister. History is repeating itself.”
“It was my pleasure to go to the International Court of Justice with the South Africans to observe the proceedings there. I was recently in The Hague, alongside the hon. Members for Leeds East (Richard Burgon) and for Coventry South (Zarah Sultana), for the launch of The Hague Group. The group is made up of a number of nations that have determined to proselytise on every global stage for the carrying out of international law, with respect to the illegal nature of the occupation and the bombardment of Gaza, as well as the continuing bombardment of the west bank. As Members of Parliament, we have been elected and we are all very proud to be here. Our primary function is to hold the UK Government to account and to demand policies of our Government that are appropriate to a given occasion.”
“I am delighted that we are having this debate. I compliment the right hon. Member for Gainsborough (Sir Edward Leigh) not just for securing the debate, but for the decent, human way that he presented the case for people who want peace in the region. That must be the message that we all put forward today. The images that we have seen and heard about today are unbelievably horrific; I can relate to many of them, having visited Israel, the west bank and Gaza many times and seen those horrific images for myself. People’s thirst to gain peace, and in particular peace through justice, has led to a search for peace through international law, hence the application that was made by South Africa to the International Court of Justice and the application that was made to the International Criminal Court.”
“There have now been 60,000 known deaths in Gaza. Israel is already accused by the ICJ and the ICC of war crimes, including genocidal acts, and it is now committing a new war crime by denying food and water to the people of Gaza. What will it take for the British Government to cease all arms supplies to Israel and to end the use of the RAF base in Akrotiri as a staging point for delivery to Israel? When will we end the security co-operation with Israel to make it absolutely clear that we are not prepared to support a regime that is breaking international humanitarian law in so many respects?”
“We all want to see an end to this ghastly conflict in Ukraine and an end to the loss of so much innocent civilian life, as well as an end to the deaths of soldiers of all sides. Can I take the Prime Minister back to the answer he gave to the hon. Member for Leeds East (Richard Burgon) earlier? Under what circumstances does he envisage British troops being deployed in Ukraine, under what circumstances does he envisage them taking part in fighting activity against a belligerent, and will he guarantee that any such decision will come to the House before it is taken?”
“Will the Minister for a moment acknowledge the hardship and horrors that all Chagossians have been through since they were illegally expelled from their islands many years ago? They all deserve recognition, the islands themselves should never have been separated from Mauritius anyway, and what we are doing now is correcting an historical wrong. I ask her not to be invited down a neo-colonial route by the Conservative party.”
“Before the Minister concludes, will she put it on record that this debate is about the most grotesque injustice that was done to people under colonial subjection by this country? Since the 1980s, they have fought for their right to return to their islands. Righting the historic wrong done to the Chagossian people should be central to our thoughts.”
“It is disappointing that the Prime Minister’s statement did not include any reference to the United Nations, or a pathway to end the dreadful conflicts in Ukraine, Gaza, Sudan or the Democratic Republic of the Congo. Clearly, his statement will have a massive effect on the poorest people in the poorest countries in the world through a cut in overseas aid budgets, but what effect will it have on the poorest people in this country—for example, those disadvantaged by the two-child benefit cap or by the housing crisis that so many face? The Prime Minister says that tough decisions are coming up; what is going to be the effect of the increase in defence spending on the poorest people in this country?”
“Could we take a moment to reflect on the hundreds of thousands of lives that have been lost in this war—Ukrainian civilians, Ukrainian soldiers, Russian soldiers—and all the families who are mourning today? Efforts were made earlier on by Latin American and African leaders and the Pope to try to negotiate an end to this war, and we may now have an opportunity to demonstrate that one country should never occupy another. Does the Minister believe that there is any possibility in the near future of a ceasefire, ahead of negotiations, that would be acceptable to the people of Ukraine as well as the rest of Europe, because we need to see an end to this ghastly conflict?”
“I strongly support the request of the hon. Member for Brent West (Barry Gardiner) for a statement on Thames Water. This company pays out its huge profits to shareholders and executives, presides over leaks across the region and pollutes our seas and rivers. To me, it is an example of the disaster of privatising the water industry. We need a clear statement from the Government that, instead of regulation, they will return Thames Water to public ownership so that the people of London and the whole region can enjoy clean water, and so that our seas will no longer be polluted.”
“My last word is this: if we continue supplying weapons to a country that is in violation of international law, we ourselves are in violation of international law.”
“I thank the hon. Member for Alloa and Grangemouth (Brian Leishman) for securing today’s debate. I was at the International Court of Justice when the South African application was originally made, and I think we should congratulate South Africa on what it put forward and the work it has done to apply international law for Palestinians. For the record, the ICJ’s judgment included settlement activities in breach of article 49 of the fourth Geneva convention, Israel’s attempt to annex parts of the Palestinian territories, and violations of international law prohibiting racial segregation and apartheid. These are very serious cases indeed. What we need to hear from the British Government is that they fully accept and fully support all the ICJ’s decisions, and that they will implement them.”
“I am most grateful to the Home Secretary for giving way. Nobody in this House supports criminal gangs or people smugglers. We recognise that they are grotesque people who exploit those in very vulnerable situations. However, the people who get on those boats are desperate. Many of them are victims of war and the most grotesque human rights abuses, and they deserve to be treated with respect. Does she agree that, by way of balance, we should work out more sustainable safe routes for asylum seekers to gain a place of safety, in recognition of the massive contribution that many of them will make to our community, our country and our society?”
“Does the right hon. Gentleman not agree that the European convention on human rights and the European Court of Human Rights are not a pick and mix? If we are signed up to the convention, we have to abide by the decisions taken by the Court. The right hon. Gentleman seems to be taking an approach that does not accept the jurisdiction of that Court over UK law, which is implicit within the Human Rights Act 1998 in this country.”
“They have suffered too long and too hard, and they have been treated so brutally that they deserve justice.”
“Can the Minister assure us that he will not be dragged down the road of rebuilding the empire, as he was invited to do by the hon. Member for Clacton (Nigel Farage), and will he also confirm that in international law, the Chagos islands in their entirety have become part of Mauritius? Should we not be concentrating on the right of return of all Chagossians to the islands, for which they have been campaigning ever since the 1980s, when they were so disgracefully removed? This is an issue of decolonisation, and of the Chagossians’ right of return. I should be grateful if the Minister confirmed that any agreement with Mauritius will include their automatic right of return to the archipelago and their right at least to visit, and if necessary reside briefly in, Diego Garcia.”
“Before the Minister gets on to the pension issue, may I just say that the order requires the Secretary of State to examine the effects of benefit uprating and the effects of the existing payment of benefits? What studies has he done on the effect of the two-child benefit cap? Secondly, last week we passed a welfare spending cap—a cap that, obviously, could be breached in the future. Will the Government revisit the whole idea of the welfare cap, with a view to abolishing it, so that we ensure that the motive force in deciding on benefits is the level of need, rather than an arbitrary figure decided by the Treasury?”
“In his assessment, what estimate has the Minister made of the increase in poverty and child poverty in our society and the effects of largely uncontrolled rents in the private rented sector, often well above the local housing allowance, which leads people into poverty?”
“The Chief Secretary has referred to the great benefit of infrastructure projects. The Elizabeth line is a very good example of that, but it was way over budget and very late, and the same applies to HS2 and most other big infrastructure projects. What plans do the Government have in that regard? Later we will discuss the welfare cap, an attempt to control welfare spending for the next five years. Does the same cap apply to infrastructure projects?”
“On the point of support for people who are on benefits, the Social Security Act 1986 ended the requirement on the now Department for Work and Pensions to provide advice and welfare support to people. Will it now be the policy of the DWP to automatically offer advice and support to people on the benefits they are entitled to claim, or to give more support to voluntary advice agencies so that people get what they are entitled to?”
“If next year’s report recommends an increase in welfare spending, would that be impossible within this cap, or will she come back to Parliament to ask for a change in the cap well ahead of its 2029 expiration?”
“I think we should be more cautious, rather than adopting a gung-ho approach and saying, “We are cracking down on welfare.” I want to crack down on poverty, I want to crack down on unemployment, and I want to crack down on those who prevent people from achieving the best that they can in their lives and in our society.”
“Surely the principle of the welfare state must be that we help and support people when they need that help and support—and yes, help them to be available for work and get back into work, and say to employers, “You need more flexible working arrangements so that people can work part time.” We must look at the levels of unemployment among people with disabilities who simply cannot get work because the employment laws are not strong enough to require employers to provide work for people who, despite having disabilities, are well able to work.”
“There seems to be one approach to investment in major infrastructure projects that run way over budget, and another when it comes to a welfare budget: anything that might go over will be prevented from going over by the Treasury. We cannot predict who will be injured next year, what illnesses will come or what needs will arise.”
“I hope that we will hear a reply from the Government in which they accept the need for a re-examination of the levels of poverty in society and demonstrate a preparedness to change the welfare cap in the future to accommodate any increased needs that result from it. The thinking behind the cap was not about eliminating poverty from our society; it was all about limiting the level of welfare payments and the benefit that people gain from them. In an intervention in the earlier debate, I pointed out to the Chief Secretary to the Treasury that huge infrastructure projects had gone massively over budget and had been financed. I support the Elizabeth line—it is a wonderful thing—but it was way over budget, like plenty of other projects.”
“Surely we should be measuring the levels of poverty, the increased levels of child poverty and the educational underachievement of children living in poverty, rather than saying that the most important thing to do is limit the level of welfare spending. There is a reason for that. I meet many people, in my constituency and in other places, who are receiving DWP benefits. Some are in work, some are unemployed and some have sickness problems and cannot work. They are not shirkers. They are not skivers. They are people who need help within our society. For too long we have had a culture of blaming anyone who seeks help within the law through our benefits system.”
“I also understand all the points that have been made about the role of the Department for Work and Pensions in relation to people seeking work. In 1986, I was a member of the Bill Committee that took a sledgehammer to the then Department of Health and Social Security’s methods of supporting people who were out of work and helping them into work. We have suffered ever since as a result, and I am pleased that the DWP is reforming its ways of doing things and will help people into work by providing more advice and support. The reality is, however, that many people in this country suffer because of the mental health crisis that we are in, have suffered industrial injuries or are living in great poverty, and they need support.”
“Any Member who goes to a food bank—we all have food banks in our constituencies—and talks to the parents picking up food will find a wholly disproportionate number of, usually, mothers of children in very large families who cannot make ends meet because their benefits apply only to the first two children. We need to get rid of the two-child benefit cap, but what we are being invited to support today will ensure that we keep it, while maintaining the removal of the winter fuel payment and boxing us in when it comes to what we can do to improve both the take-up and the availability of disability benefits as a whole. I must therefore caution the Minister and question her optimism. I recognise the need to overshoot the cap today because I understand why it has come about, but we need to look at the levels of poverty in our society.”
“The Government have already removed the winter fuel allowance, which is included in the estimates for the next five years, and are maintaining the two-child benefit cap, which restricts the amount of money paid on benefits to families. I understand all the points the hon. Member for Loughborough (Dr Sandher) made and the passion with which he made them, but the reality of not removing this ridiculous cap, put in place by the right hon. Member for Chingford and Woodford Green (Sir Iain Duncan Smith) when he was Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, is that we have a lot of children living in desperate poverty.”