Mr Toby Perkins
MP for Chesterfield · Labour · United Kingdom
“The hon. Member for Bicester and Woodstock (Calum Miller) is absolutely right to say that what is behind this is the deep unpopularity of President Milei; it is not anything actually that the UK has done.”
“In Chesterfield, there will be unmitigated despair at the statement we have heard today from my right hon. Friend. For the authorities for which she is doing a review—the 14 that thought they had got their decision in July—could she clarify the basis of that review?”
“It is a great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Desmond. I congratulate the hon. Member for Waveney Valley (Adrian Ramsay) on securing this debate.”
“The report spells out the link between degradation overseas and the impact here. The assessment lays out the consequences: food insecurity, economic insecurity, increased migration and refugees, increased interstate competition, conflict and geopolitical instability, all of which will threaten us here at home.”
“The Government are right to take their time and make sure that they get this right—we saw what happened when the previous Government did not do the work that was needed. This is a delicately balanced decision.”
“Thirdly, will the Minister consider bringing forward the fourth national adaptation programme? NAP3, published by the previous Government in 2023, was deemed ineffective by the Climate Change Committee. NAP4 is not due until 2028, but can we afford to wait two more years before we have an adequate plan?”
The complete record
Every one of 3,898 lines we hold for Mr Toby Perkins, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 9 of 78.
“Let us hope he gets my best side, Mr Deputy Speaker. I am pleased to have secured this Adjournment debate on the vital issue of Derbyshire County Council’s funding and governance. The services that people in our county receive have diminished so much, and although the Minister and his Department must take their share of the blame, it is also important to have an opportunity to detail the ways in which the county council’s leadership have added to their problems. Since the Government came to power here in Westminster, Derbyshire County Council’s budget has been slashed by £780 million in real terms. In 2010, its budget was about £1 billion, which is £1.48 billion in today’s money, but Derbyshire County Council’s current budget is £700 million. Therefore, it is less than half of what it was 14 years ago in real terms.”
“Can the Minister explain how we can ensure that schools such as Brampton are not penalised for their own success in supporting special needs children?”
“It is proud of its reputation for creating a supportive environment for children who have additional needs, but each child who has an education, health and care plan has the first £6,000 of their extra costs covered by the school before any central funding comes in. On top of that, dozens of children are waiting for special needs assessments from the overwhelmed county council education service. While the children and their families wait for their assessment to be heard, the school receives no additional funding for these pupils at all. A school that has gone out of its way to support those who have the greatest needs is crushing into the rocks of an inadequate funding mechanism and a county education service that is failing to support those children.”
“The case of Brampton Primary School, which I referred to earlier, encapsulates all that is wrong with Derbyshire County Council’s budget allocation and service delivery. The school has an excellent special needs unit, but also has a tremendous reputation for how it has supported special needs children within its mainstream provision. As a result of this reputation, many parents from well outside the Brampton catchment area who have special needs children will choose it for their children. However, this reputation for inclusivity comes at a tremendous cost to Brampton. The primary school has 317 children on its roll, with 31% of these children having SEN.”
“It can now be revealed that, throughout this period of hardship, Derbyshire County Council has received around £17.5 million of capital funding from the Department for Education since 2019 for additional special school places, but has spent a paltry £1.5 million. That means £16 million, or 91% of the budget it has received, is sat in Derbyshire County Council’s coffers, while parents of special needs children lose sleep every night at the lack of provision in our county. It is nothing short of a betrayal of those parents and their children. What can the Minister do to work with colleagues in the Department for Education to get this dysfunctional authority to deliver special needs placements for Derbyshire children?”
“Spending on private schools for children with special needs has increased from £5.7 million in 2018-19 to £24 million in 2023-24, according to the schools forum report, while investment in council provision falters. At almost every single one of my weekly surgeries, I have parents in attendance who have children with special needs who are unable to get into a dedicated special needs establishment. Often, these children are excluded from their mainstream school—these children are missing months or, in some cases, years of their schooling—and are unable to make a mainstream placement work, but unable to access specialist provision.”
“While Labour-run Chesterfield continues to enjoy the lowest council tax in the country, the Tory administration on the council has raised council tax by almost 5%. The need for social care for adults is only going to grow and grow as people live longer lives. I am sure we can all agree that this is a good problem to have, but more funding is needed from Government if councils are to be able to provide essential services such as this. Can the Minister set out the guidance he has provided to county councils and authorities to plan for the delivery of services in the context of demographic change and real-terms cuts to budgets? The children of Derbyshire are suffering massively under the current council leadership, too.”
“The cost of living crisis, spiralling rents and ever increasing mortgage rates are destroying the social contract in real time, and the inability of a council to provide services that facilitate for the most in need is a damning indictment of 14 years of Tory rule and local mismanagement. This situation could mean 162 vulnerable residents being turfed out on to the street. The council is now closing its own centres and using the private sector more—it is spending more and getting less. Spending on private care homes has increased by 61% since 2018-19, at a time when the authority has had to close seven of its own care homes, losing 156 beds. It has also closed 140 beds in its remaining 16 care homes and has around 30 vacancies. Where is the county’s duty of care to those living in its care homes? It is not as if the council is efficient.”
“The right to dignity in old age is a sacred covenant in this country. Old people should know that when they work hard for their entire life and make a contribution to society, they should be able to retire with a degree of comfort and security. I feel that the covenant is now disintegrating before our eyes. The governor from a school in Brampton was in such despair at the situation that she attended the most recent full meeting of Derbyshire County Council to set out that, to meet budgetary constraints while continuing to deliver the required level of care, the school is being forced to cut 160 teaching hours a week.”
“Jon Pearce, Labour’s parliamentary candidate in High Peak, has teamed up with local Labour councillors to support the community’s plan to create a community hub and preserve the centre at Gamesley, which houses a youth club and boxing club in one of Derbyshire’s most deprived communities. Those clubs were shocked to receive a call out of the blue from DCC to say that they had a matter of weeks to find another venue, because the decision had already been made to close the building. The community is attempting to form a constituted community organisation and has secured a three-month extension, but it is engaged in a race against time. We have also recently heard that Derbyshire County Council is looking to close two thirds of the care homes that it manages, as well as eight older people day centres.”
“The authority got in touch with me and with other Derbyshire MPs to ask us to lobby Ministers for more money, which I and many other MPs did, as the authority was being charged excessive amounts by private providers of children’s services. Derbyshire has embarked on a savage programme of privatisation of services and so would be vulnerable to private sector overcharging, because it has crippled the strong publicly provided services that it inherited. One feature of this Administration’s approach has been the unfortunate habit of marrying serial incompetence with careless arrogance and indifference to public opinion. The closure of these buildings is a case in point.”
“When the Minister responds, can he tell us whether he believes that the loss of 44 of Derbyshire’s 56 children centres during the past 14 years of a Conservative Government is primarily down to electing a Conservative Government or down to electing a Conservative council? We will come on in due course to the authority’s failings in special needs education, but at every school I visit, experienced headteachers say to me that they have never seen so many children with serious special needs. Has anyone in the Government considered whether the stripping away of these early years services may be contributing to the huge increase in the number of children presenting on their first day at school without being school ready and often in need of support with speech and language, dressing and toileting?”
“We know that the work done by the staff in the centres has a massive benefit to the children and families that they help. I was first elected to this place in 2010. During the election campaign, the issue of whether Sure Start was safe if the Conservatives were elected was a key plank of the Labour party campaign. The Conservatives furiously denied Gordon Brown’s claims that one in five Sure Start centres would be endangered if the Conservatives were elected. Well, in Derbyshire, Gordon Brown was indeed wrong: we have seen not one in five of these children centres close, but four in five. Now, the Government wonder why they are spending more than ever on the costs of failure, but they have failed to invest in the early years.”
“It would not be an Adjournment debate without the hon. Gentleman’s contribution and I am grateful to him for it, because his point is well made. The budget cuts we have seen in Derbyshire have come alongside an increase in the population and there is an argument, which many of us in Derbyshire have made, that the authority has been particularly badly treated on the finances. The point he makes is a very valid one. When the UK and Derbyshire were both run by Labour administrations, there were 56 of these children’s centres, but after 14 years, if these plans are approved, there will be just 12. The centres provide essential services such as health visits, speech and language development, healthy eating, parenting, school readiness, family support, parenting groups and help to improve family relationships.”
“I am afraid the answers for Derbyshire lie at its own door. The services provided by Derbyshire bear no relationship to those that existed in 2009 when Derbyshire and Britain were run by Labour Administrations. We cannot go on like this. On 2 May the voters of Derbyshire have an opportunity to send a message to those who have let our county down so badly, vote for a Labour Mayor and police and crime commissioner, and start the process of rebuilding our shattered public services in our beautiful county.”
“The council has no plan for co-ordinating disruption to road services from different organisations, so why do the Government not adopt Labour’s plan to have oversight of those contractors so that motorists do not go through the inconvenience of a road being dug up and patched up by one contractor, only for someone else to dig it up again the next week? Having benefited from support throughout covid, instead of investing extra money in its services the council chose to award Tory councillors by creating additional cabinet posts, and lifting its spend while cutting back on services. It also scrapped the chief executive role only to create the post of managing director who, at a princely £176,000, is paid more than the Prime Minister and is a £38,000 increase on the previous incumbent.”
“The leader of the county council, Mr Lewis, was closer to the mark when he admitted that his authority adopted a “patch-up and sticking plaster approach” to improving our roads. When the figures are investigated it all becomes clear: Derbyshire spends just £54.81 per head on road repairs, the lowest in the country, with an average spend across councils of £86. Derbyshire is allocating 36% less than the average council per head on road repairs. No wonder potholes are so omnipresent across our county.”
“I have had to replace two tyres and a spring this winter, and the state of our roads is the No. 1 local issue raised by my constituents when we are out speaking to them on the doorstep. While potholes are a danger for drivers, they are lethal for cyclists. I have not yet found the courage to tell the enraged motorists of Chesterfield that the Conservative leader of Derbyshire County Council claims that the council is one of the best in the country at pothole repairs, but I have seen how a penny-pinching approach creates even more work for the council, often returning to the same holes over and over again. Some 24% of Derbyshire’s principal roads need repair, compared with the second worst county councils, Kent and Sussex, at 6%, way below.”
“Budgetary constraints have produced an atmosphere of pressure within public sector delivery bodies, and I have a profound respect and pride for workers doing their utmost in trying circumstances, but the leadership of the council can and must do better. Derbyshire enjoys the dubious honour of being the pothole capital of the UK. The Beatles may have sung about 10,000 holes in Blackburn, Lancashire, but research by Mac’s Truck Rental found that Derbyshire was home to over 90,000 potholes, and I am pretty sure I have been over them all. Potholes are a serious problem, with profound consequences for road users and public safety. At the behest of a constituent, I recently drove from Ashgate Avenue along Old Road towards Old Brampton, and then to Loundsley Green. The number of potholes I saw on that stretch alone was staggering.”
“I join the hon. Member in paying tribute to the special educational needs placements he talks about. Their work is outstanding. I was intending to be at Ashgate Croft School on Monday, but, unfortunately, I was unable to make it, and I will be returning there soon. He is right about the importance of respite care, and the perverse impact that cutting those services ends up having on the amount of money the authority spends. I agree with him on both those points. Although the council’s budget has been dramatically reduced by the Government since 2010, its use of the precious available funds has been nothing short of appalling.”
“Prices have been incredibly volatile over recent months and years. That has posed economic challenges domestically, but the challenges are particularly acute for those operating in international markets. It is important that a balance is struck between risk appetite, businesses’ ability to trade, and checks on goods. How often does the Minister plan to review the legislation to ensure that businesses and customers are paying a fair price for services and that we can have confidence in the risk rating of products? The Opposition will not oppose the changes, but I hope that the Government understand the need for further consideration of the impact they may have for businesses and the public. I look forward, as I am sure the industry does, to hearing the Minister’s response to my questions.”
“The legislation makes use of a tight definition of a “final user”, as a person acting on their own behalf and outside of their professional interests. As the Minister will be aware, the National Farmers Union proposes that final user be redefined to also mean a business that imports plants or plant-based products that are for its own purposes and that never leave its site. Goods that will not leave a business premises clearly pose a smaller biosecurity risk than those intended for broader commercial use. Will the Minister therefore set out why the Government are not considering the approach suggested by the National Farmers Union, which might reduce bureaucracy for smaller and medium-sized enterprises? The core function of the changes is to adjust inspection rates and relevant fees, and to define scope.”
“Does the Minister anticipate that this will lead to further delays, and what assurances can he give to importers that are worried about further Government-created delays to products being received? The changes set out in the legislation will alter fees at a time of great financial hardship, when customers are battling with the cost of living crisis and businesses small and large are attempting to grapple with the inflation we have seen under this Government. The legislation will result in a material change to the cost of importing for businesses that have been hampered by years of uncertainty about their ability to trade. Will the Minister consider conducting an impact assessment into the changes made by the legislation to ensure that the Government can provide any support necessary to the industry?”
“The regulations set out the goods of medium risk that will be subject to checks, but many in the sector are deeply concerned about the move. In a letter to the Secretary of State that I have seen, the Horticultural Trades Association raises grave concerns about border control posts’ ability to handle the volume and speed of goods that they will receive, and to ensure the free flow of imports. The Minister spoke about reducing friction, but the association is worried about friction increasing. It further cites concerns about the capability and equipment available at border control posts to undertake the complex checks. What steps has the Minister taken to ensure that the new system can manage the volume of checks that will be required? Does the new system have the ability to check the products now defined as medium risk?”
“I would hate, as I am sure we all would, any legislation passed in this place to make it harder for these assiduous horticulturists to access the wares they need to realise those vibrant visions. It is essential that the checks on the organic produce that we import are carried out conscientiously and efficiently, so I have several questions for the Minister. Plants and plant product imports are valued at around £753 million every year, so it is crucial that the legislation works. Many hundreds, if not thousands, of jobs depend on it. As we know, one of the key changes in the move to the border target operating model is that inspections of many plants from the European Union, including all those categorised as high risk, will now take place at border control posts, rather than at the goods’ place of destination.”
“Will he undertake to now listen to those businesses most affected by this suite of policies? Will the Minister allay the fears and concerns of businesses whose future depends on these decisions by informing and reassuring them on a series of questions that still require clarification, and will he do so urgently? On the plant health and official controls regulations, it is vital that plants and other commercial produce that enter Great Britain are subject to the appropriate checks and inspections on arrival to these shores. In my constituency, Chesterfield, we are blessed with many green-fingered enthusiasts, several of whom won awards in the Chesterfield in Bloom awards last year. Our town would be much poorer for their absence.”
“Will the Minister explain why the common user charge rate was so delayed and what impact he thinks that will have had on the ability of businesses to plan ahead? It is the middle of April: we are discussing changes that will be implemented in just a couple of weeks. Businesses are still in the dark about some key features of the new BTOM. The British Chambers of Commerce has said that there is a real problem with communication, adding that: “Until businesses on both sides of the Channel have all the information it’s very difficult for them to plan ahead.” It slammed the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs for failing to listen to the industry over these changes generally. Does the Minister regret that the UK’s largest business representative body believes that it has not been listened to by his Department?”
“If those on the remain side of the Brexit referendum had warned of empty supermarket shelves becoming a regular sight in post-Brexit Britain, they would have been accused of engaging in “Project Fear”. It is extraordinary how quickly we have become accustomed to that. A future Labour Government will look to improve food security. Many logistics businesses have been pressing the Government since the Brexit vote for detail on the level of charges and how and when they will be implemented on imported goods. The Government said that the common user charge rate would be confirmed by December 2023 at the latest. The additional three-month delay has further hampered the ability of logistics businesses to prepare.”
“Our colleagues in the House of Lords also expressed their concern about the impact of the changes particularly on small businesses in their recent report on this impending legislation. Will the Minister explain why there was no impact assessment on the changes? It is worth reminding the Committee that 30% of food consumed in the UK comes from the EU. Is the Minister worried that there is a risk that all these changes will lead to confusion, delays and further chaos at border points, which could have a significantly detrimental impact on fresh produce or produce that requires specific controlled temperatures? This presents the possibility of a return to the food shortages we have seen in recent years.”
“Financial experts such as Allianz Trade estimate a much higher bill, however, and have suggested that consumers will be forced to spend as much as £2 billion on a range of food from the continent when the new border checks come into force at the end of this month. I am afraid that I do not buy the Government’s claims that businesses will save £500 million through efficiencies created by digitisation. That strikes me and others as a considerable overestimation, particularly if the extra costs, disruption and paperwork that any new system inevitably brings are factored in, as well as the general hit on competitiveness that businesses fear they will suffer as a result of these charges. Will the Minister clarify which hidden costs were factored into the estimate of digitisation savings?”
“I am particularly concerned about UK companies that import on a smaller scale or rely on imports of niche products, which may find it challenging to absorb those costs and charges. The charges facilitated by the official controls regulations should be considered in the broader context of increased costs that British importers have been subject to since 2021, when the UK officially left the trading block. Indeed, the Government have already conceded that the extra costs incurred by businesses due to the post-Brexit border controls on animal and plant products imported from the EU would be as much as £330 million annually.”
“Many who contacted me said that their original response to the consultation on the border trade operating model had, they felt, been ignored, and so they did not respond to this specific consultation. That is a real shame. There is a real risk that these new changes will lead to increased costs for food importers and an increase in prices at the till. Hard-pressed consumers have already suffered a year of skyrocketing food inflation. Does the Minister anticipate that these changes will lead to food price increases? If not, how can he reassure those in the sector who feel that it might? If the increased costs that these charges will generate is not passed on to the consumer through higher prices, does he expect all companies affected to simply be able to absorb those costs? What evidence does he have for that?”
“It is a great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Rees. The Labour party recognises the need to ensure the UK’s biosecurity. Preventing the entry of diseased organic matter and pests into this country is extremely important. Many UK businesses have had a real trading disadvantage for some time; we have had an asymmetrical arrangement with other countries in the European Union. We will not be opposing this legislation, but we do have serious concerns about the border target operating model and, more specifically, the provisions made in these statutory instruments. Concerns have been vigorously and emphatically articulated by a number of stakeholders.”
“I am listening with great interest to what the hon. Lady says. Is it her contention that the instruments before us are necessary but do not go far enough, or is she suggesting that they will make things worse?”
“Before the Minister moves on, he has explained what will happen, but he has not really explained why. The hon. Member for Dover made a number of points about why she felt the move might be a bad idea for security and the facilities at Dover. Will the Minister expand a little more on why that has happened, rather than just on what will happen?”
“I am grateful to the Minister for giving way before he sits down. He said that he will continue to listen to industry. The hon. Member for Dover and I both asked why there had not been an impact assessment. It might have better enabled him to listen to industry had he done an impact assessment. Will he explain why there was no impact assessment?”
“For almost two years, the Sandpiper Hotel in Chesterfield has been used as a hotel for asylum seekers. The North Derbyshire Refugee Support Group has told me that not a single person who has stayed there has been asked to go back to their country. In fact, the vast majority of them have had their applications approved, which undermines the Government’s suggestion that all these asylum seekers are not entitled to be here. Actually, the Government approve the vast majority of applications, so their approach is a waste of money. Why do the Government continue to fail in this way? For the Minister to celebrate the extraordinary usage of hotels just because it is diminishing slightly is hopeless. When will we get the Sandpiper back in public use?”
“T3. The murder of Gracie Spinks in Chesterfield sent shockwaves through the town, and the report on Derbyshire police’s handling of this desperately unhappy situation was salutary. There is still far too much inconsistency in how stalking and violence against women are handled, so will the Home Secretary back Labour’s plan to bring in mandatory national standards, and mandatory training on tackling violence against women, so that we see consistency in policing on stalking right across the country?”
“The question from the right hon. Member for North Somerset (Sir Liam Fox) exposed that there is much more we could be doing to undermine the murderous Iranian regime. Simultaneously, the way that Israel continues to ignore the United Nations resolution is deeply troubling. Is the Prime Minister worried that his approach at the moment risks failing, both on Iran and on Israel?”
“For all the positive words from the Secretary of State, the reality in our prisons is that people are being sent out, and the prison estate has not kept pace with the rhetoric that we hear from the Government. The Government are constantly sending criminals on to our streets because they do not have the prison facilities to house them. Is not the reality that we need fewer fine words and more action from the Government to keep our streets safe?”
“I understand what the deputy Foreign Secretary says about wanting both sides to acknowledge United Nations Security Council resolution 2728, but he must know that the people in Gaza facing starvation, going to bed every night wondering whether it will be their last, do not have the power to bring the hostages back. The people who have the power to bring the hostages back are sitting in five-star hotels in Qatar, so it is useless to allow the aid for people in Gaza to be blocked by Israel, and for them to continue to be on the end of a bombardment, while somehow suggesting that they are masters of their own destiny. Will he say what this Government will do in the event that Israel continues to ignore a binding United Nations Security Council resolution?”
“People across Chesterfield were delighted when the long-standing campaign for the Staveley regeneration route was given the thumbs up by the Government, but were then sent into despair when Derbyshire County Council said it did not have the funds to provide its small contribution towards it. Will the Secretary of State update us on whether it will be delivered? What concerns does he have about the fact that the poverty of local government sometimes gets in the way of money that his Department has allocated?”
“The Leader of the House could have announced today that next week, the Safety of Rwanda (Asylum and Immigration) Bill, the Football Governance Bill or the Renters (Reform) Bill would be before the House, but she did not. We are told that senior Government figures have said that the reason why Conservative MPs are being sent home on a one-line Whip until the middle of April is to placate them and ease tension. This Government have simply ceased to function. Their way of stopping their most important policy is to send Tory MPs home, so that they do not have to vote for it. It is beyond a joke. Can we have a debate most urgently about when we will have the general election that this country needs to get this useless Government out of office?”
“It is clear from what we have heard that the Minister is here to tell us how well the Government and the water companies are doing. Meanwhile, out there in the real world, the recent “State of Our Rivers” report exposed that not one English river is in a good overall condition. The capital’s water supplier is on the brink of collapse, and the only solution that the Government are even considering was stolen from the Labour party. Is it not the truth that what Britian’s rivers really cannot afford is five more years of this useless Government?”
“The hon. Member has secured a really important debate. One big problem that comes across strongly in Derbyshire is the lack of capacity within the local authority to do the assessment. Many schools are supporting parents and their special needs children, but are unable to get assessment for months or even years. How big an issue does he think that local authority resources are in all this?”
“10. What assessment she has made of trends in the number of level 2 and 3 apprenticeship starts since the apprenticeship levy was introduced.”
“I can understand why the Minister does not refer to the trends, because he knows that level 2 apprenticeships are way down. The Government’s reforms have seen level 2 apprenticeship starts fall by two thirds since 2012-13, and the number of people employed on an apprenticeship with a small and medium-sized enterprise has fallen by 49% since the levy’s introduction. The Minister talks powerfully about apprenticeships, but why does he think that young people are now half as likely to be on an SME apprenticeship than they were when the levy was introduced?”
“The Minister is talking about the state of the nation’s finances in 2010, and at that point we had a national debt of £1 trillion. We now have a national debt of £2.6 trillion. Does she think that the Conservatives have sorted out the nation’s debt when it is now almost three times higher than it was?”
“Twenty-five MPs who will not be extolling how wonderful it was are the New Conservatives. The 25 Conservative MPs who support that organisation said: “We cannot pretend any longer that ‘the plan is working’. We need to change course urgently.” Does my hon. Friend question, as I do, whether those 25 MPs who want to change course urgently will vote for this Budget? If they will, how can they possibly suggest that they are changing course?”
“Our economy needs growth, but our country also needs a shot in the arm from a Government with a commitment to tackling poverty and the causes of failure that have gone unchecked under this Government. No more a country where people die on an NHS waiting list, waiting for the treatment that could have saved them. No more a country where the trains do not run and the roads are not fit to drive on. No more a country where the place someone is born is the biggest determinant of their chances in life. Change is coming, and it cannot come a moment too soon.”