Sir Bernard Jenkin
MP for Harwich and North Essex · Conservative · United Kingdom
“Despite long and historic disagreements between successive UK Governments and Israel, it has remained a steadfast ally in counter-terrorist efforts to keep our people safe in this country. We are now embarked, it seems, on a full diplomatic dispute with Israel and tit-for-tat expulsions of diplomats.”
“I would very much have liked to have discussed the medical devices questions arising from the Bill. The Minister made an incredibly short speech about that important matter. It is quite clear that these provisions are part of the covert dynamic alignment with the EU and the covert rejoin agenda being pursued by the Government.”
“I am as keen as anybody to get on with discussing the Health Bill, but this topic is too serious an opportunity to miss, given that the hon. Member for Leeds Central and Headingley (Alex Sobel) has raised such important issues. I really commend his speech and his initiative. Everybody should read it.”
“The Minister shakes her head, but she is yet to give a good reason as to why this measure is in the Bill. When we had an Adjournment debate in July with the then Minister for patient safety, the hon.”
“The chief executive of the CQC is wantonly conflicted in terms of looking after the safe space, so he cannot be the one left in charge of that function. The real point here is that we are missing the opportunity to save so much money. Governments keep having public inquiries.”
“I asked the Minister, in a letter I sent her after the debate in July, to give us the information on how much the transfer of all this would cost. Nothing has arrived. I never had a reply to the letter. Of course, the Government have changed the Minister and the new Minister for patient safety, the right hon.”
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“However, we also need to mend our ideas about how we deliver it, because as I have said, undergrounding high voltage direct current cables is not only technically viable, but the most sensible and sustainable solution for the future of our entire energy network.”
“That report should make it easier for the Government to change the out-of-date policy of a presumption in favour of pylons, which we said in our manifesto that we would review. I am very happy for the Minister to blame the previous Government for the difficulties he is facing and to change the policy accordingly, but it will be very odd if he comes to the Dispatch Box to defend what the previous Government were doing, after what the hon. Member for Camborne and Redruth (Perran Moon) just said—but I suspect that that is what he will do. I put this issue forward in a bipartisan manner. We should all be able to agree that the great grid upgrade is not going fast enough, and that we need to streamline the planning process and speed up delivery.”
“I accept that the present Government have inherited a planning system and a philosophy of upgrading the national grid that is out of date. When we were in Government, we were very slow to recognise that such a big, strategic upgrade needed a proper strategy. We started moving towards holistic network design. We commissioned a report from Charles Banner KC to look at streamlining the planning process—I will come on to putting that streamlining in place—and I very much welcome that the Government have commissioned a spatial review of the entire network, which should have been done years ago. I think we were blind to the failings of the structure inherited from the Electricity Act 1989; we should have moved much sooner.”
“There is no comparable resistance from campaign groups, which is clear evidence that underground HVDC gets public support, making it a far more practical and feasible solution.”
“The great advantage of undergrounding HVDC is that there will be far less public resistance. Moreover, as I have said, the planning procedures could be streamlined— as recommended to the Government recently by Charles Banner—to conform to the regime for installing new major water pipes. If we had the same planning regime for underground cables as we did for water pipes, we could speed up the process for undergrounding cables. Underground HVDC offers a scalable, future-proof solution that can be delivered with far less environmental impact, with public support and much more quickly. Schemes without pylons that are already planned by National Grid—for example, in north-east England—are being delivered without public opposition or long delays, which seems to be an enormous advantage for the Government’s objective of decarbonising the grid.”
“I am not necessarily disagreeing with the principle of what the hon. Member for Bournemouth East (Tom Hayes) says, but undergrounding DC cables has great advantages. The latest estimated cost of just one year’s delay for Norwich to Tilbury is four times more than the additional £1 billion cost of undergrounding HVDC— I hope the hon. Gentleman was listening to that: £4 billion a year for delay against £1 billion extra for DC undergrounding. I think that puts this into the field of a no-brainer. Why would we spend all that money fighting through the courts for a very unpopular scheme when we could save time and legal expense by going for a different method? In the National Energy System Operator’s East Anglia network study, which was published earlier this year, undergrounding HVDC was set out as alternative option 8.”
“What is interesting about Germany is that its presumption was in favour of undergrounding, so the idea that that is a great big experiment and we do not know what it means is incorrect. There is plenty of expertise in Europe. When we look at cost comparisons between undergrounding and pylons, it also depends on the territory we are dealing with. Our problem is lack of community consent, as Fintan Slye, the executive director of the National Energy System Operator, rightly says. It is a question of swings and roundabouts, but in the case of Norwich to Tilbury, the consequence of delays from trying to run roughshod over the very widespread and well-funded public opposition will be to put up the cost, which makes the cost of undergrounding advantageous over pylons. That is my point.”
“Germany will not give up HVDC undergrounding altogether, but that is the presumption in our planning system, which I suggest the Government need to revise. The Government must show decisive leadership and embrace an HVDC future. This is about more than just reducing costs and avoiding delays; it is about ensuring we meet our renewable energy goals in a way that works for communities, the environment, the economy and the planet.”
“Wind power stations are increasingly located along the coast or just off our coastline, and a DC transmission network would reflect that. Converting power to AC at landfall is inefficient and duplicative. A properly designed onshore and offshore HVDC network would reduce the infrastructure needed, cut down on converter stations and enable us to focus on building for real demand, rather than just peak production. Globally, HVDC is becoming the standard for modern energy networks. By investing in HVDC now, the UK can maintain its leadership in renewable energy, create jobs and develop skills that will keep us competitive. The alternative is clinging to outdated, mid-20th century technology that will leave us falling behind other countries.”
“If we started building a DC grid network—for example, if energy ran all the way from Norwich to Tilbury on a DC line—all those connections could go straight into the DC network, avoiding the need for extra infrastructure. Incidentally, that would apply to the interconnectors for energy coming from the continent. Electricity arriving from the proposed Tarchon Energy interconnector would be DC, so we would not need a massive DC-to-AC converter at Ardley in my constituency; we could have just one DC-to-AC converter at the point at which the electricity needs to be converted to AC much nearer London—at Tilbury or even the Isle of Grain. It is clear that HVDC is right for many parts of the United Kingdom, not just East Anglia.”
“I would very much like the proposal to underground cables to be extended to other areas, such as the Roman River valley, which is technically not in the special landscape area but is just as special. The Government have an obligation to respect sensitive countryside, so that could be another cause for a judicial review. A much better solution would be to underground DC, not AC, cables through that sensitive landscape. Another reason why this proposal is so advantageous is that offshore DC to onshore AC requires huge DC-to-AC converters at the cable end points. When DC current generated by a wind farm lands somewhere such as Friston in the constituency of Suffolk Coastal, there has to be a massive DC-to-AC converter for it to go into the AC grid network.”
“The Stour valley is an archaeological site of the same importance as Stonehenge. If there had been stones in the Stour valley, we would have a Stonehenge, because there is evidence of a wooden henge. Ancient tribes lived there in prehistoric times and it was a significant area throughout Roman times and the middle ages. All of that is at risk, in addition to the massive destruction of trees, ancient woodland and hedges, in order to install AC underground cables. I am all for mitigating the effect of pylons by undergrounding, but let us not kid ourselves that it is a solution for the most sensitive areas of landscape. It is also much more expensive to underground AC cables than DC cables.”
“For Norwich to Tilbury, the onshore undergrounding HVDC proposal will cause significantly less environmental damage than overhead cables and AC undergrounding. Let me expand on that. For a start, the entire route would be underground, not just through the sensitive landscapes. The cable trenches required for undergrounding HVDC cables are far narrower than for AC cables. AC undergrounding is proposed for the area of outstanding natural beauty, the special landscape area that I share with my hon. Friend the Member for South Suffolk (James Cartlidge). That requires a 120-metre-wide trench, because AC cables need to be spaced out. That means a very wide swathe of destruction, as that vast trench is dug and refilled, and everything in its path is destroyed. It is extremely expensive to avoid going through archaeological sites.”
“That includes digging a trench through the sensitive landscape of Dedham vale across the Stour valley, almost exactly where the pylons or alternating current undergrounding will go. Nobody is objecting to that underground scheme. I have not had a whimper of complaint about that pipe going in. Why stick to pylons when that method is slower and delays will make it far more expensive? The Government may argue, as the hon. Member for Chelmsford (Marie Goldman) mentioned, that community benefits will compensate for the disruption to affected areas caused by pylons, but those ideas will not buy off the hostility to pylons and other unwanted infrastructure. Solutions that respect communities and their interests, as well as deliver for our energy network, are the future.”
“We are not blocking; we are trying to help. In my constituency, one local group wrote to National Grid, in response to a consultation, saying: “By all means, build closer to our houses and shorten the route, just put it underground.” That demonstrates that communities are not opposed to infrastructure or the objectives behind it. They are just against bad decisions to achieve it. I mentioned streamlining the planning system to bring it into line with what is required of water companies laying major water pipes. There is a massive underground Anglian water pipe being installed from Bury St Edmunds, across my constituency to Abberton reservoir in the constituency of my right hon. Friend the Member for Witham (Priti Patel).”
“I am grateful for the hon. Lady’s intervention. As the new Liberal Democrat MP for Chelmsford, she demonstrates that this is a cross-party campaign, supported by people who are as committed to decarbonisation as anything else. As has been said, there is no comparable resistance from campaign groups in the north-east of England. That is clear evidence that underground HVDC receives public support, making it a far more practical and feasible solution. In East Anglia, the opposition to overhead pylons is not subsiding; it is growing and becoming more intense. Campaign groups are united in their resistance to this outdated approach to infrastructure. The Government, including the Minister, have made it clear that local campaigners will not be able to block their nationally important mission to build clean energy infrastructure across the UK.”
“Does the hon. Lady acknowledge it was the previous Government who commissioned the Banner report on streamlining the system? Let us approach this on a bipartisan basis—we are all on the same side, trying to achieve the great upgrade of our electricity grid—and stop scoring party political points, shall we?”
“The hon. Member for East Thanet (Ms Billington) made the relevant point that there are balancing factors. First, once cables are undergrounded, they are maintenance free, but pylons require constant maintenance, which therefore adds to their carbon footprint. Everybody has seen that. Secondly, salt marshes are very often Ramsar sites and migration bird sites, and we do not want overhead power lines interfering with the migration of birds. We often see that scores of swans have been killed on power lines because they are not very good at navigating around these things.”
“Very briefly, the ESO review of the east of England network demonstrated that there is a higher up-front cost for undergrounding of an extra £1 billion from Norwich to Tilbury, but in the longer term it saves money. It is just not correct to say that undergrounding is automatically much more expensive. That is a departmental mantra that is now discredited—just read the ESO and NESO documents.”
“I thank the Minister for his engagement and for the meeting he had with MPs. It would be very kind if he could write to me with the further detail that he has not been able to put on the record today. I would also point out that the only orange flag against ultrahigh voltage direct current undergrounding in the ESO review in the spring was about cable availability. It was not a red flag but an orange flag. With streamlining of the planning process, this could be sped up. It is a possibility, and I hope the Minister will continue dialogue on this issue, because I think he will need this as a solution to the problems he will run into. Motion lapsed (Standing Order. No. 10(6)).”
“We have not had a public inquiry into a rail accident ever since, because of the safety regime that he implemented following the inquiry. Every survivor of the Paddington rail crash and subsequent rail crashes is grateful to him for what he did for passenger safety on our railways. If for nothing else, we should remember him for that. I send my best wishes to John’s family and to all his friends and colleagues on the Government Benches at this sad time.”
“He was right to insist on a public inquiry into the Marchioness disaster, which the previous Government had refused to hold, and he was right immediately to announce an inquiry into the Paddington rail disaster as soon as it happened. I recall getting one of the most surprising telephone calls of my political life when, having told the Conservative conference that he was right to call that public inquiry and that we should wait for its outcome, I got a call from him to thank me for that bit of bipartisanship—something even he was capable of when the cameras were not looking. I pay tribute to John for that, because the Cullen inquiry came up with a completely new safety regime for rail, including a rail accident investigation branch for the Department for Transport.”
“Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. I first collided—if that is the right word—with John Prescott when I was shadow Secretary of State for Transport as he ploughed on with his integrated transport plan, which was one of the centrepieces of the first Blair Administration. I found that some of my colleagues tried to treat John Prescott as a bit of a joke. That was a mistake. Yes, we teased him about his two Jags, and he rather loved that, but he was utterly sincere in what he did, passionate, and pretty brutal with his Opposition opponents when he felt he was on top. We clashed again over the proposals for regional assemblies. Great campaigner though he was, he lost the north-east referendum, and I do not think he ever really forgave me for that. When required, however, John could be a great statesman.”
“Can we be absolutely clear about what the Government are saying? It seems that the Government are not saying that there would be an automatic arrest should Benjamin Netanyahu arrive in this country, but they are saying that there would due process. Can the Minister confirm that “customary international law…does not permit the arrest or delivery of the serving Prime Minister of a non-State party to the ICC”? So the Minister is committing himself to due process but not to arrest. Am I correct in my understanding?”
“What does this announcement tell us about how the strategic defence review is going? One lesson of the Ukraine war is that old kit can be very useful. As my right hon. Friend the Member for Chingford and Woodford Green (Sir Iain Duncan Smith) said, America’s airfields and dockyards are stacked full of old kit for future contingencies. We are throwing away capabilities that are only out of commission because there was not enough money. Now the Secretary of State is telling us that there is probably even less money. Please will he not come to this House and pretend he is just clearing out an old cupboard of rubbish that everybody had forgotten about and that the defence chiefs are hopping up and down with delight at his clearing out.”
“I thank the Foreign Secretary for his statement, but I cannot hide my disappointment that he has nothing to say about freeing the hands of the Ukrainians to use our long-range missiles. How can he lament the attacks on Ukrainian infrastructure when he will not allow the Ukrainians to use our weapons to strike back and retaliate? He says all the time, “We’re doing all we can,” but we are not, and we are now foot-dragging. We used to lead; now the Americans are in the lead. Can I invite him to change the paradigm of this war and lead from the front by setting an example—as the former Defence Secretary, my right hon. Friend the Member for Stone, Great Wyrley and Penkridge (Sir Gavin Williamson), described—as we did in the past? Otherwise he is foot-dragging, not leading.”
“I emphasise how mystifying it is that these documents have not already been released, 40 years after the conflict. It is not about identifying blame or who was responsible. In my view, it is about making sure that lessons are transparently learned for future operations about command chains and accountability during conflict. What is the reason for withholding these documents? Will the Minister show compassion for those who still live with this, whether as bereaved relatives or as people bearing the scars and injuries of this dreadful event?”
“I thank the Minister for agreeing to meet the OffSET—offshore electricity grid taskforce—group of MPs later today; we are very much looking forward to the meeting. Does he recognise that achieving the 2030 deadline set out in the NESO report requires an acceleration of the process, which, in turn, is dependent on much higher levels of public consent?”
“Let me assure the Secretary of State that those of us who have followed the defence debate over the last 10, 20 or even 30 years know that he takes these matters extremely seriously and understands the scale of the challenge that we face. In that vein, I encourage him to start telling the truth: that we will have to spend far more than 2.5% of GDP on defence within quite a short number of years. A former Chief of the General Staff has warned that this country might be directly at war within the lifetime of this Parliament. May I suggest that the Secretary of State use his friends throughout this House to influence both his Government and the Treasury influences on the Conservative side, because we are going to have to bust a gut for a major rearmament programme that we have not seen in this country since the 1930s?”
“The attitude that taxation is somehow an inherent good has limits, and we are going beyond those limits.”
“It is naive to believe that taxing wealth creators, wealth creation and capital formation will not drive entrepreneurs and business leaders out of our country, which is happening. It is also deceiving, because the Budget reflects that Labour’s plans were not fully costed, and it is destructive of wealth, wealth creators and pensions. The Budget massively reduces people’s incentive to save into their pension pot, as they will now be taxed on what is left over at the end of their life to pass on to their children. Of course, there is also a streak of vindictiveness towards wealth creators. I heard a Labour Member shout “Good!” when the shadow Chancellor said that we are climbing the league table of countries with higher tax rates across the economy, moving beyond Germany.”
“The biggest cheer from the Labour Benches yesterday seemed to be for the 1p cut in draught beer duty, but I have since spoken to people in the hospitality industry, and they have described this as a shattering Budget. The money that publicans and restaurateurs will now have to pay their staff, and pay for their staff, massively dwarfs any benefit they could possibly pass on to their customers from the 1p beer duty cut. In fact, most of the increased beer prices that we will see as a result of this Budget are a direct consequence of the tax increases inflicted on businesses. I am afraid that those cheers demonstrate a complete lack of reality about the world we live in. The character of this Budget reflects a reversion to the failed Labour policies of the 1960s and 1970s.”
“I congratulate the hon. Member for Ribble Valley (Maya Ellis) on her spirited maiden speech. Her speech, along with the other maiden speeches, underlines how new Members come here with good will in their hearts, full of good intentions and full of ideals. It is heartening to see that in new colleagues on both sides of the House. I do not think the new Labour Government have any lack of good intentions, but this Budget is happening in something of a political bubble. Much of the Chancellor’s discourse seems to reflect a continuation of the general election campaign, which we now know could have been fought more honestly, openly and transparently by the Labour party. That said, I am sure the Chancellor believes she has produced the best Budget for this country.”
“As Chancellor, Gordon Brown was the successor to Margaret Thatcher and continued with many of the same policies. Gordon Brown did not set up a ludicrous vanity project like Great British Energy. He did not believe that taking control of investment in a sector like energy would increase the wealth of the country. All the equivalent state-owned enterprises around Europe lose money—the Government will not make a return in that sector.”
“Apart from the initial impact of the extra spending in the forthcoming year, the throttling back of expenditure, then the decline in borrowing and the burden of the extra taxes, suppresses economic growth, which the Office for Budget Responsibility is perfectly clear about. It was an empty promise for the Prime Minister to say, “We are going to prioritise economic growth.” This Budget simply does not prioritise economic growth. We have forgotten all the lessons of our economic history, learned from the disastrous policies of the 1960s and 1970s. If socialism worked, everyone would do it. Socialism does not work. This is a more socialist Government than we have seen since the 1970s. They have forgotten what Tony Blair and Gordon Brown did. It was Gordon Brown who cut the capital gains tax rate.”
“The idea that these measures are pain free, and that getting more tax revenue in and borrowing more is going to bail out the economy, is very flawed. I do not suggest there is going to be a bond crisis tomorrow, but we are enmeshed in a debt trap in this country, as are so many other mature democracies, after the energy crisis and covid, so there is likely to be another liquidity crisis of some kind over the next few years. How well prepared will this Government be, if they have already put up taxes and borrowing to spend on more consumption, rather than for our long-term economic benefit? This is not a Budget for growth.”
“When Margaret Thatcher was elected in 1979, we were the sick man of Europe. What she, Lord Howe and Lord Lawson did to the British economy in that period put us on a faster growth track than the German economy. Since that time, we have been falling behind again. This Budget will help us fall behind again. Elements of this Budget are a defiance of reality, because behind the cheer for the 1p cut on draught beer is the real world outside. I have been watching the gilt rate—the 10-year bond rate—on my telephone. It closed yesterday at 4.362% after going up substantially in the last hours of trading, and now stands at over 4.5%. That means the Budget has spooked the markets into increasing the cost of borrowing, which the Government will have to pay.”
“I wish we could all have everything that we wanted. Gordon Brown inherited a golden economic legacy from the Conservatives in 1997— [ Interruption. ] Yes, he did. Debt was falling and growth was outstripping our competitors. By the time of the financial crash in 2008, he had already increased borrowing and spending. The consequence of the financial crash is that he achieved what every Labour Government always achieve: they leave office with higher debt, higher unemployment and higher inflation. That is what Labour Governments always do, and that is what this Labour Government are set to do again.”
“Members will tell them not to do is to stack up more debt, but that is what the Government have chosen to do. That is not a long-term policy. Finally, what about GDP? I take no pride in saying that growth in GDP has been struggling for a decade or more—”
“This Government are profoundly un-strategic—just look at what the OBR says about investment: “Tax rises in this Budget weigh on real incomes, so private consumption falls as a share of GDP”— that means people are going to be getting poorer. It continues: “Corporate profits are expected to continue falling as a share of GDP in the near term”. It adds that “business investment falls as a share of GDP as profit margins are squeezed, and the net impact of Budget policies lowers business investment.” Is that good for the British economy? I submit not. What about debt? If someone has too much debt, the one thing they should do is not borrow more money, if they want to get out of a debt trap— [ Interruption. ] Members on the Government Benches have surgeries attended by people who are in debt. The one thing hon.”
“There is somebody else’s money that people spend on themselves: when people use expense accounts, they go on the most expensive aeroplane or get the biggest car their company will pay for. Finally, there is somebody else’s money that is spent on other people: that is what Governments do. It is a reality that Governments are the worst allocators of resource for ensuring future wealth creation. That is just a fact. The record will always confirm that if we want to create more wealth, the smaller the state can be, the faster economic growth will be and the more we can afford to then spend on public services.”
“I am not going to give way any more. We need only look around the world to see that the idea that an ever-larger state makes the people richer is confounded by economic experience, otherwise the richest countries in the world would be those with the biggest state. It is businesses and free enterprise that generate the wealth that pays for the public services we need. We can all recall Milton Friedman’s four ways to spend money. There is people’s own money that they spend on themselves: they think about it, spend it very carefully and make sure they get the maximum value for money. There is money that people spend on other people, such as when they buy a present: they may want to keep the cost down and may not be sensitive about whether the person really wants a particular gift or not.”
“What is happening to our demographic, including the ageing population and the ratio of people in work and out of work? What are this Government doing to address that trend and to address the immigration trend, because that is adding to the cost of our economy? How will we be able to increase defence spending? The Chief of the General Staff has recently said that this country could well be directly involved in a war within the lifetime of this Parliament. We will have to spend more on defence, as well as controlling the rest of the public sector. It is many decades since health, education and welfare started swamping out every other kind of expenditure in the Government. If we are to survive as a country, we will have to address these very damaging long-term trends.”
“Yes, I do not think we did enough to dynamise the British economy. We did not do enough, but I was very grateful for the support of the Liberal Democrats for the first five years of the Conservative Government. That helped us to keep public expenditure under better control so we could begin that process. GDP per head has really been flatlining. We are falling significantly further behind the United States, but what are the trends? On these trends, we will be overtaken by Poland by 2030 in terms of GDP per head. What are this Government doing to address the real long-term trends? Let us look to 2050. What is the shape of public expenditure going to look like in 2050? This Budget does not begin to address that. What will be our national debt on a long-term basis?”
“If the hon. Gentleman will forgive me, I am just drawing to a close. What is the true cost of decarbonisation? That is something that the Government are hopelessly naive about. It is as though investing in decarbonisation is somehow a get-out-of-jail-free card, and everybody’s bills will start to come down, but anyone involved in the industry will say that that is not the case. The need to dynamise our zombie economy is still there and being made worse by the burdens that this Government have inflicted on us. How will we re-industrialise our economy when deglobalisation has taken away the opportunity to import all the cheap things that we used to make, but no longer do? Those are the real strategic challenges, and the Budget does not begin to address them.”
“One hon. Member complained about food banks. Actually, food banks started under Tony Blair. I think that we need to share these problems and concerns. We need to understand each other’s different approaches to economic policy if we are eventually to have a solid approach to reviving the economy of this country, but I am afraid that this Budget does not do that. There will be more poor people as a result of this Budget.”
“It does seem rather odd to introduce a new tax and then to defend it on the basis that very few people will pay it. Why is the Minister so confident that it will yield anything recognisable in terms of a contribution to the public finances? The few landowners who will be caught by this measure will be making other arrangements to ensure that they avoid it, particularly the very large landowners.”
“Can we take it that the Government did not think that the Chancellor’s announcement in America last week was important? I think most people in this House felt that it was. Therefore, if it was important, did the Chancellor break the ministerial code?”
“Let me just reassure him that I am one of the many Conservative colleagues who were open-mouthed in astonishment when we announced that we were going to have a golden era with that communist dictatorship, and I never had anything to do with it.”
“I thank the Foreign Secretary for actually coming to the House on this occasion, but does that not underline the fact that he should have volunteered a statement, rather than being forced to the Dispatch Box by an urgent question? Having listened to these exchanges, are Members of the House not still entitled to ask what exactly the Government’s overall strategic policy is towards China—given, for example, the huge build-up of nuclear weapons that China is funding, developing and building? Will he bring to the House a proper and full statement, or even a White Paper, that sets out that strategy once and for all?”