Jon Trickett
MP for Normanton and Hemsworth · Labour · United Kingdom
“The shadow Minister has said, “Well, we’ve got to be a bit careful. We don’t want to over-regulate these things.” The idea that these activities should be dealt with using a light touch will raise a bitter laugh in the communities I represent, and in communities all across the country who are suffering from the same kinds of problems.”
“They told me that it is probably the worst site in the north of England—other sites are competing for that award, but let us put that to one side for a minute. However, it became clear fairly quickly that the Environment Agency was understaffed and under-resourced and lacked the powers it needed to begin the process of enforcement.”
“At first, the Conservative Government envisaged light-touch regulation. It seemed to me—this has now been confirmed by the Minister, and I welcome her comments—that light-touch regulation simply does not allow the EA to take the necessary enforcement action when activities such as those I have described take place.”
“I welcome the robustness and energy that the Minister has brought to her task—it is very welcome. Inevitably, the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Chester South and Eddisbury (Aphra Brandreth), wants to revert to some kind of light-touch approach, but we need to make sure the communities we represent are adequately protected—if necess…”
“Many, many years ago, permission was given under licence to do some recycling there, in order to eventually turn it back into arable land. When the people who live there bought their houses or moved in, they had a more than reasonable expectation that that work would be finished within a 10-year period.”
“Secondly, last Monday, we were having a planning appeal on this site, and the planning inspector went way beyond his brief and said to me—I am a Member of the governing party, but he thought I was the Government—“Will you ask the Government what they are going to do about those operators who deliberately take millions of pounds of profit…”
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“I welcome the Chancellor’s statement about public sector pay, but is it not clear that, after savaging public services, holding down public sector pay and driving 3 million people into food banks, this crazy ideological austerity programme of the Tories has failed massively while at the same time, the richest 250 people in the country gained wealth of £500 billion? Can I tempt the Chancellor to say that, while we accept that there are hard decisions to make, we reject the ideological commitment to this form of Tory austerity?”
“I thank the Minister very much for her response and I welcome the whole team to the Front Bench. The problem with outsourcing is that, normally, the outsourcers will drive down pay and conditions for the workforce, thereby creating a two-tier workforce; they are not properly accountable to Ministers; they are exempt from freedom of information requests; and finally, there is the question of public service centres. Will the Minister confirm that we will proceed with abandoning the previous Government’s ideological obsession with outsourcing?”
“It is good to see you back in your place, Mr Speaker. The new Minister will recall the old saying that a new broom sweeps clean, and I am sure he will make progress very quickly indeed. It seems to me that the Post Office scandal reveals a wider problem in British society. Whether it is Orgreave, Grenfell, contaminated blood or the problems at Hillsborough, the British establishment seems incapable of listening to the voices of ordinary people. Will he raise that matter with other Ministers and see whether there is a way for this Government to ensure that is not repeated?”
“I am grateful to my great and hon. Friend and I welcome you to the Chair, Mr Henderson. Is the population of my hon. Friend’s constituency sparsely distributed? Mine has got 23 separate villages, and there are probably four or five high schools, so making a choice is limited by the geographic spread of the secondary schools especially. That impacts communities like my hon. Friend’s in the north east, and mine, and those elsewhere, too. In that respect, competition between secondary schools and academies does not necessarily help parental choice in my hon. Friend’s constituency.”
“I am grateful to my hon. Friend for giving way again. Has he had the experience of some entrepreneurial secondary academies excluding kids who have issues about attainment in an effort to drive up the average result for those schools? And if he has, what does he think happens to those children—those young people—who have been excluded?”
“I absolutely take your guidance, Mr Henderson. I have not asked to make a speech, but my hon. Friend is raising a number of issues of national importance. With your forbearance, Mr Henderson, can I make one final intervention, please?”
“You are very generous, Mr Henderson. We have a 90-minute debate and my hon. Friend probably has an 85-minute speech, so he will have to cut it down slightly. I have noticed that the proportion of young people in my hon. Friend’s constituency with no qualifications at all is almost one in five; in the city of London, only 6% have no qualifications. Is that due to social class or is it partly about the density of the population in London compared with the sparsity of the population in his area? In my own constituency, 24% of all the kids have no qualifications at all when they leave school. Is that not a disgrace?”
“The Office for Budget Responsibility is responsible for giving clear advice to the Government on their fiscal and budgetary strategy. Has the Leader of the House noted that the other day a senior representative of the OBR said that the Government’s figures are a “work of fiction”, because the projections for cuts after the election have never been printed? Will she comment on that? Is it a work of fiction? Can we have a debate on the OBR and its role?”
“The fact that thresholds are being held steady while wages are rising means that people are paying more as a proportion of their income than they would have done if the thresholds had risen at the same rate.”
“The right-wing papers are saying that there is some “fiscal headroom” in the Budget—in other words, the Treasury is sloshing around with money. But where has the money come from? It has come from hard-working people who are overtaxed on their income. There might be other ways to fund state services, but it is the working people who have created the additional money in the Treasury. That has been done through a cruel system, which is no longer quite as invisible as it was, called fiscal drag, whereby people’s wages and salaries are increasing but the threshold at which they pay tax is being held steady by a Conservative Government who have clearly set out to raise more money from working people.”
“If there were to be a wealth tax, we might well be able to change the way we tax inheritance, but that is not the case; it is not a serious proposal for now, but it is something to think about in the longer term. It is good to see so many Members here. I begin my reflections on inheritance tax with the following reflection: it is always interesting to look at the language politicians use, especially those from the governing party. When Labour proposes a spending commitment, the Government say that we have found a “magic money tree”. When the Tories find money to spend or give away in tax gifts, suddenly it is “wise”, “prudential” and “management of the economy”. Of course, it is no such thing; it is propaganda.”
“I beg to move, That this House has considered inheritance tax. I am looking forward to your firm guidance from the Chair, Sir Robert. I am grateful to the House authorities for allowing us to have this important debate. The whole British tax system is skewed in a very odd way. We simply do not tax wealth sufficiently, but we do tax income from work. Income from wealth is relatively untouched by the taxation system, but income from work is taxed and people feel the burden of it. If we were to redesign our whole tax system, I wonder whether that is the way we would structure it. My office wrote a report on this issue three years ago, suggesting a wealth tax.”
“I do not think it is a rational decision and a proper way to spend money, and nor do the public. In two recent polls, 75% said they were against a cut in or the abolition of inheritance tax.”
“I guess that all Members present will have been around their constituencies in the recent Christmas and new year recess, and they will have seen people hungry and living on the streets, schools closed because the concrete problem has not been resolved, hospitals with cruel waiting lists, people unable to heat their homes, and even unfilled potholes. What we have seen in our own constituencies is true for the whole nation. There are massive pressures on our civil society and the way we live our lives. If we were the Treasury and had £7 billion, would we really want to hand over money to some of the richest people in our society, when all those needs are still there, and when maybe we should be trying to help people on lower pay with some assistance on tax? I don’t think so.”
“I find that a very interesting intervention. I am not opposed to considering that idea as part of the wider debate, but let me return to the point I was trying to develop. It looks as though right-wing ideologues in newspapers and elsewhere are hinting that there is a significant amount of money available in the Treasury. Those papers are saying that we should end inheritance tax or perhaps cut it. It would cost £7 billion of the Treasury’s reserve of money to abolish inheritance tax completely.”
“If it is agricultural land that is being farmed, there is no inheritance tax on it. Such estates remain there—a blight on our system and a way of securing the continued existence of the British class system, which has caused so many problems for our country. Let me turn from the very wealthy to other people who pay inheritance tax. Less than one in 25 people who die leave an estate that is subject to inheritance tax; that is under 4%. More than half the constituencies in the country pay no inheritance tax at all, or none that can be measured. That figure is from the Financial Times. Ending inheritance tax would not put a single penny into all those constituencies. There would be no benefit to them whatsoever, as far as I can see, from the relief of inheritance tax.”
“None the less, it is extraordinary that someone earning £10,000 or £15,000 a year—struggling—is paying bloomin’ tax, but a multimillionaire with hundreds of millions of pounds and an estate can avoid tax by handing over a bookshelf that remains in the very house where their family have lived for centuries. The senior economist at the Institute for Fiscal Studies, which is hardly a hotbed of Marxist thinking, said overnight that it is not in favour of changing inheritance tax, except to say that we should avoid all of the reliefs and the systems by which people can escape inheritance tax, which makes it unfair and skews the taxation system as a whole. It wants to see the loopholes that some of these richer families use closed. For example, it is possible to put money in a trust.”
“I will be interested to hear the Minister defend that. It was extraordinary to find that the owners of that property in my constituency avoided inheritance tax on one of the largest estates in the country, which has been left untouched for four centuries, because they were able to gift to the nation a bookshelf—okay, it was a valuable bookshelf. That bookshelf was given in place of paying inheritance tax. How can that possibly be correct? What is even more extraordinary is: where is that bookshelf now? It is in the very stately home where that particular family still has some residential rights. Of course, it is available for the public to see if they visit.”
“That is barely touched through the way we deal with inheritance. I do not think that is justifiable, when the half the land of a whole nation is held by 500 families. I discovered something quite extraordinary in my constituency while researching this issue. I will not name anyone, because this case has not been in the papers. There is an estate of more than 3,000 acres in my area, with 5,000 acres elsewhere and a further 3,000 somewhere else. That large estate, in place since the 16th century, has been barely touched by any form of inheritance or wealth tax over the centuries. That estate remains in place. What is extraordinary is that there is an agreement between the Treasury and the people who leave these large estates that if they cannot pay the inheritance tax, they can donate a work of art.”
“I do not want to name too many very wealthy people, but let me name one, because it has been in the newspapers. The Duke of Westminster, one of the richest men in the country, inherited well over £6 billion—I think, nearly £7 billion—through various trusts and other arrangements, but according to the right-wing newspapers—the Daily Mail , Daily Express and others—the estates more or less avoided any form of tax at all. How can it possibly be right that that kind of wealth should be handed on, while people who work hard and have maybe managed to accumulate more than £1 million in their lifetimes are paying 40% tax on the residual amount they arrive at? In Scotland—I have no doubt my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow East (David Linden) from the SNP may well mention this—500 families own half of all the land.”
“If someone leaves more than £1 million, they may well be required to pay inheritance tax. Let me deal with what actually happens, based on figures provided by the Financial Times , which are based on Treasury figures. If someone leaves an estate worth more than £5 million, they will find that the amount of money they pay in inheritance tax declines. The people between £1 million and £5 million are probably paying 40%—unless they have made certain arrangements—but the really wealthy estates above £5 million, where the power and wealth in our society resides, pay less and less tax the more wealthy they are. Hon. Members can see the graphs; they are freely available on the internet. The richest estates in our country pay virtually nothing at all in inheritance tax. Can that really be right? I do not believe it is morally justifiable.”
“When the second person in the marriage or civil partnership dies, the first person’s £500,000 is accumulated to the second person’s £500,000, so that is effectively £1 million per house. Nobody in a couple who owns a house in that particular way would pay any inheritance tax on the house, so it is a specious and false argument to say that inheritance tax would somehow deprive people of their houses. Look at the figures. In Yorkshire, only one in 300 properties is worth more than £1 million. All the rest are worth substantially less. In the whole of Yorkshire, there are 7,500 households worth more than £1 million. Across the whole country—of 60-odd million people—there are 700,000 properties worth more than £1 million. It is important to put that on the record, before we go any further into the debate.”
“I said I would give way twice. The right hon. Gentleman has already had one intervention, so I will only take another from somebody else; a lot of people want to speak. I am sure we are all clear on this, but let us remind ourselves how the system works. One argument that might be made is, “Are you really saying that if you’ve worked hard all your life and managed to buy a house, your descendants can’t inherit that house?” Well, the rules are quite clear. It is not as people might imagine, because a person is allowed half a million pounds with no inheritance tax on the house value. With a couple, however—whether they are married or in a civil partnership—the partner left behind after the other has died inherits the house with no tax; we all know that.”
“No, I will not give way—the right hon. Gentleman will have a chance to speak in a moment. I want to illustrate what is happening. I think I am right in saying that, if inheritance tax were abolished, it would put £12 million back into the Minister’s constituency, which makes £60 million in a five-year Parliament. In all the 42 red wall seats in the north of England, which went from Labour to Tory, that sum is hardly more. All those seats together would raise £15 million a year in inheritance tax. Abolishing inheritance tax would put a fraction of the amount of wealth in our country back into those constituencies, and then only into the hands of the richest in our society.”
“It is a political strategy to move money into those areas where the Tories are now extremely worried that they are going to lose their seats. This is about pumping money into blue wall seats. It is a political strategy rather than a fiscal one. That is where we are. The Government think that they can bung people, whether with contracts or honours or by putting money back into the pockets of the richest people in our society, in order to secure their own continuance in office. But the British people do not like this stuff. It is grossly unfair and it should not be happening. I hope that the Minister can say, “Well, we might have had a look at it, but we’re not going to do it, because—you’re correct—it would be unfair.””
“So in Tory seats in the south and south-east, and to some extent in London, £1.5 billion was paid, while only £15 million was paid in all of the so-called northern red wall. That is a completely extraordinary set of figures. I think Ministers and right-wing commentators really fail to understand the way in which our society is structured, with the inequalities and all the other problems that we face on a daily basis. If it were to happen, the abolition of inheritance tax would be one of the largest shifts of wealth that has ever taken place under any Chancellor, certainly in recent history. I have been in Parliament for 28 years and I do not remember anything as large. Here is the central point: this is not a fiscal strategy, and it is not about justice, or fairness, or responding to what the people of the country want.”
“The hon. Gentleman raises an important issue, because I think there is £800 billion of wealth in our country that nobody—not even the Treasury—knows the owners of. That is a colossal, unimaginable amount of untaxed wealth, which has simply disappeared because the Treasury cannot find out who owns it. It is true that people can reside in one place and own property in another, but I am talking about someone’s place of residence when they died. Let me remind Members of the figures, because I do not want to lose the argument. In all of the red wall seats that Labour lost to the Tories, £15 million in inheritance tax was paid; only in three of those seats did anyone pay any inheritance tax. However, in the 42 blue wall seats that I have looked at, £1.5 billion was paid in inheritance tax.”
“Out of the 29 constituencies in the north-east of England, only three paid a penny of inheritance tax in that last tax year. Does my hon. Friend think that cutting inheritance tax will put massive amounts of additional resources into his region?”
“This year, whenever the election is, we will see what exactly will happen to the kingdom of injustice that the Conservatives have created. Question put and agreed to. Resolved , That this House has considered inheritance tax.”
“First, inheritance tax is paid by a tiny minority of people who are based largely in Conservative-voting seats; that tells us exactly what fears are in the bellies of the Ministers who are trying to pump money into Tory areas to try to protect their majorities. It will not work. Secondly, to respond to the hon. Member for Strangford, who is no longer in his place, this issue is about the big estates. It is not about somebody who has built wealth through hard work with their hands; it is about entrenched estates that have been there for centuries, right back to the Domesday Book—estates that the Minister’s party protects and that presumably fund his party, too. Let me finish with the words of a man who was alive at the time of Christ, the philosopher Seneca: “A kingdom founded on injustice will not survive”.”
“I will be very brief. “The politics of envy”—talk about predictable. What we have actually heard from Government Members is a politics of wealth, privilege and greed. We have a tax system that simply reinforces the gross inequalities in our society, as we have heard from almost every Member, including the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) and a couple of Members on the Government Benches. We have a system that is grossly unequal, deeply unfair and unjust, and the system of so-called inheritance tax reinforces all that. The Minister has refused to deny that the Government are looking at inheritance tax. We look forward to the announcement on 6 March, and we hope that the Government will listen to the points that we have made. The Minister did not respond to the two central points that I was trying to make.”
“If you are one of the tens of thousands of small and medium-sized enterprises bidding for contracts from the public sector, you will be met with a wall of bureaucratic paperwork designed to prevent relationships between the contractor and the service provider. If you are an ex-Prime Minister, you can make dozens of phone calls on behalf of an interest in which you seem to have been involved, including nine texts to the current Prime Minister. Is it not clear that that was reprehensible behaviour, and that the lobbying rules allowed it to happen? When will the Minister tighten the lobbying rules properly to prevent people from being able to benefit from the old system of “It is not what you know, but who you know”?”
“T3. Palantir has this week received one of the largest contracts imaginable. The company is based in silicon valley in California. It was established by the CIA and it has continuing links with the American defence network. It looks as though huge amounts of British NHS money and profits will be migrating back across the pond to California, but the most concerning thing is that information about millions of our fellow citizens—their health data—will be handled by that company. How can that be right?”
“I will leave the House with that point. There is money in our society that could be used for public services and to help working people, which the Government pretend they are trying to do but have failed to do.”
“The thing is, we left the European Union in part because we supposedly wanted to be free to adjust our VAT rates, but we have done none of those things, really. We let inflation rip. My final point—again, this was not mentioned in the statement—is about the asymmetric way we deal with income. As we have heard, we tax earnings from work to a significant amount—part of that is just to pay for the debt that we have incurred while this lot have been in government—so someone who earns £50,000 will receive £38,400 after tax and national insurance. Someone who earns £50,000 from dividends will take home another £8,000 and receive £46,250. If we were a Parliament for working people—one that valued work and labour as a way of contributing to our society—we would not tax work more heavily than income from wealth.”
“But I have covered 40 separate financial statements since I was first elected 28 years ago, and I remember sitting here and seeing the faces of Conservative Members when the Budget was introduced—they started off rosy and finished up pale, even white and ashen—but what did they do? They voted for it—all of them, I think. We know what the consequences have been since. Was there another option for the Government to try to protect working people? I think there was. Spain, for example, with the same spending pressures from oil costs, harvests, the wars and so on, has managed to keep inflation down to 2% while ours was roaring away at up to 11%. What did Spain do? It removed VAT from basic foodstuffs, capped prices, made payments to households, and reduced VAT on electricity and gas.”
“The faulty memory of Government Ministers—let us put it no stronger—has resulted in a rather rosy picture of what will happen to our country, but the people will see what has happened to their families, their households and their neighbours, and they will understand that this Government are simply for the rich rather than for the rest of society. I return to inflation. The right hon. Member for North Somerset (Dr Fox), who is not in his seat, talked about how we should explain inflation and said it was produced purely by external forces. Of course, external forces have made a difference.”
“The people I represent and the people of Britain as a whole are not fools. We might see tomorrow’s right-wing newspapers bellowing out a great triumph for the Conservative Government, but people will look at their pay packets, and they will see that the Treasury is still taking £100 more than it would have had thresholds changed. That is an unfortunate situation to be in. It is what the economists call fiscal drag, and it is estimated that next year alone, the Treasury will take back £8 billion from working people, which is £270 a person a week.”
“I represent large numbers of working people—we all do, I guess—and the average salary or income in my constituency is £29,200, which is way below the national average. With wage increases needing to match food inflation, I calculated the result of today’s announcements for people on £29,200. The amount of income tax they pay will increase by £456, because the Government have not increased the thresholds. That is £9 a week. Okay, the Chancellor announced a reduction in national insurance of 2p, but that will still leave people in my constituency on the average salary more than £2 a week worse off. What the Government pretend they are giving with one hand with a cut to national insurance is then taken with the other hand, as they have not increased the thresholds. Effectively, people are falling further into poverty.”
“That is shocking, when we reflect on the levels of difficulty that we see in our constituencies. The other thing that the Government seem to have forgotten, while they have been claiming that inflation is going in the right direction, is that inflation as a whole is one figure, but the cost of food is increasing by 10%. I looked at the figures to see where we are with food poverty. The bottom four deciles—that is, two fifths of the population—spend more than 40% of their total household income on food and housing. Food prices going up are driving people further and further into destitution and poverty. All those facts seem to have been forgotten by those on the Government Front Bench. I will not speak for too long, but I will make a couple of other points. Ministers have said that this is a Budget for working people.”
“The Government forgot to mention that the OBR has said that the plans published today require £19 billion worth of expenditure to maintain our public services, but the Government have provided only £4 billion. A spokesperson for one of the larger well-known think-tanks has said that the cuts that the Government are proposing are “completely implausible”. I looked at the figures. Schools are looking at a cut in real terms. There is no attempt to match inflation. The Government are going to reduce the amount of money going into schools. How will those cuts be made? Services, after 13 years, are almost beyond repair without a new Government. The Government seem also to have forgotten that the OBR has said that working people are facing the worst cut in living standards since records began.”
“Look around: where has the money gone? Our services have collapsed in many cases, including schools, hospitals and the police force. Our people are living in increasingly difficult times. There is an increase in poverty and the necessity to use food banks. Our growth is more or less static. Okay, there is a small percentage increase, but over the medium term we are not looking at any growth at all. Where has all this money and all this borrowing gone? It has been spent by a profligate Government who do not have any sense of the country’s priorities, and that worries me. One section of the population has done well—the big corporations and the wealthy—and I might return to that if I have time.”
“Thank you for your guidance, Mr Deputy Speaker, and I will try to be brief. The first point I want to make is that the Chancellor and the Chief Secretary, who spoke at the beginning of this debate, seem to have omitted certain important facts. I do not want to suggest that they deliberately misled the House—that would be totally inappropriate—but perhaps they had memory problems, so I will try to assist those on the Government Front Bench with some things that seem to have been forgotten, but are quite important. First, right hon. and hon. Members on the other side have suggested that Labour has a problem with borrowing, but look at the figures. Since 2010, the Government have borrowed £1.5 trillion, and they seem to be heading towards borrowing of £3 trillion, an increase of 28% of GDP since Labour left office: they are the borrowers.”
“They are effectively taking the power to bully these people by saying, “If you don’t have this X-ray, there will be a presumption that somehow you are not under the age of consent.””
“How on earth can we explain to people, many of whom will be below the age of majority, and who may be frightened and may not have English as their mother tongue, in a way they can understand, the risks of radiation exposure engaged in the procedure—x-raying a single tooth—that they are about to undergo? It raises the question in my mind that informed consent, which is a basic requirement imposed on medics generally and on the health service, will be lacking in significant numbers of cases. That is why I am not convinced by the Minister’s arguments, and why I could not possibly vote for this measure, given the arguments he has made. What are the Government doing?”
“Secondly, Professor Andrew Rowland, the officer for child protection at the Royal College of Paediatrics, says that the evidence shows that using X-rays to determine age is “widely inaccurate”, and that the “practice is ultimately unethical”. He goes on to say that we will be exposing children to radiation. There is, surprisingly—perhaps not surprisingly, given the nature of the British establishment—the Age Estimation Science Advisory Committee, presumably to provide advice to the Government. It talks about informed consent, which is my third point.”
“I will try to be reasonably brief, although I need to repeat some of the points that have been made. First, we are not dealing with a huge number of people—over six years, from 2016 to 2022, there were only 700 people a year who were said to be under the age they were claiming to be. Seven hundred a year—that is perhaps two a day. Most of those people have already been identified using other techniques. It is therefore hard to see what the Minister thinks will be added by doing this very unethical and slightly dangerous procedure. Will he tell us how many people he thinks are escaping scrutiny at present?”
“The final sentence on page 6 says that the authority notes all this, and says that the applicant—that is, the Government—should “cease using X-rays when alternative methods are validated.” If the justifying authority has major reservations about the use of X-rays in this unethical and unscientific way, what are the Government doing to look into alternative examinations, which the JA is clearly proposing we should do?”
“We are already massively under capacity. I can only imagine that this will mean diverting people from looking after the health of ourselves, our friends, our neighbours and our citizens in order to carry out a practice that is unethical, impractical and unscientific. Where will these radiologists come from, and how long will it take to examine each individual? I will refer to the report that the Minister has referred to, which says: “Biological age assessment involving ionising radiation is limited to radiography of the third molar” and/or of the wrist. This is hardly a great operation, is it?”
“I am complaining about the fact that this procedure will be done to children, who are not capable of giving informed consent, which is a basic principle of medical practice. That is my point. Here is the thing: there is no evidence whatsoever that these X-rays will demonstrate the age of the person—the victim. The scientists are not saying that to the Minister. If he can say otherwise, let him say so, but the people who are responsible for this and the advisory committee do not think the procedure produces sufficient evidence. I will just make one further point. Where are the practitioners doing these x-rays coming from? According to the Royal College of Radiologists, there is a massive under- supply of clinical radiologists in our country. In fact, by 2027, we are going to need an additional 3,365 clinical radiologists.”