Sir Julian Smith
MP for Skipton and Ripon · Conservative · United Kingdom
“I thank the Minister for her answer and for all the work she is doing on this. Following on from the question from the hon. Member for Broxtowe (Juliet Campbell), the issue of differing profiles is really important; pupils with a pathological demand avoidance profile of autism will require a totally different strategy from staff at the re…”
“I welcome the right hon. Lady to her place, and I am sure that she will be very effective at this job. On the issue of wildfires, may I urge her to talk to the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, which is putting further constraints on moorland owners?”
“I am really worried about this urgent question. We sat here last night and talked about requiring honesty from public servants, and we voted on the Public Office (Accountability) Bill, but as we have heard from my right hon. Friend the shadow Secretary of State and the hon.”
“The Leader of the House had nothing to do with this decision on the business. He knows that, even at the height of Brexit, once an Opposition day debate was agreed, it was agreed.”
“One of the best ways to improve the health of neurodiverse young people is high-quality attention deficit hyperactivity disorder and autism assessments. The Government are proposing to cut substantially the amount paid to providers.”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Now that the new Prime Minister’s special advisers have removed by diktat the opportunity for the Opposition to hold a debate about allowing him to be scrutinised on Monday, can you provide the House with clarity on what other routes might be available for us to hear from the new Prime Minister, from whom…”
The complete record
Every one of 601 lines we hold for Sir Julian Smith, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 6 of 13.
“We are absolutely right to recall David Cameron’s apology in 2010, and I send my best wishes to the families and the people of Derry/Londonderry. Will the Secretary of State confirm that the measures in New Decade, New Approach to protect sustainability and to keep Stormont running will be put on the statute book at the earliest opportunity?”
“I welcome the Government’s dialling down of the rhetoric on the protocol, but may I urge them to speed things up? This issue and these negotiations are affecting our international relationships in steel and other matters, and the very fragile ecology in Northern Ireland. May I also urge the Secretary of State to assist my right hon. Friend the Member for Lagan Valley (Sir Jeffrey M. Donaldson) on his need for a negotiated settlement on the Irish sea checks and regulations?”
“I therefore urge the Government to get the Bill to the Lords quickly, to remove the two-month commencement date and to ensure that they get behind keeping the pressure on all parties to maintain devolved government and maintaining the Good Friday agreement in all its parts.”
“The first clauses of the Bill are designed to put the ball back in the court of any party that seeks to exit the Executive and to shine the spotlight on each political party in Northern Ireland to restore government. Otherwise, the ball comes back into the UK Government’s court. The vast majority of NI citizens want continued devolved government. Yes, there are arguments for change and reforms at the right time, such as new clause 3, but the big issue today is why the Bill has not yet been implemented. More importantly, this House must be clear that the Bill needs to be implemented now. The practical measures that will allow continued government—now 18 months late—will ensure that Northern Ireland business and citizens get the stability they crave.”
“The Bill will stop the political parties from thinking that there is an emergency escape hatch when things become politically difficult and will provide for up to 24 weeks to resolve things. Currently, a number of issues could tempt political parties to use that escape hatch: the protocol, the cultural package, the UK Government’s putative changes to the Human Rights Act 1998, and the legacy proposals. A cocktail of issues are being injected, sometimes recklessly, into the fragile ecosystem of Northern Ireland. In that context, there is a clear and present danger of one Northern Ireland party or more diving for the emergency escape hatch. The Bill will slam shut that cop-out option.”
“On Second Reading, in July, my right hon. Friend the Member for Forest of Dean (Mr Harper) highlighted the fact that the Government were already looking tardy. The sustainability clauses were agreed in order to avoid what happened in 2017, which led to three years of no Government in Northern Ireland. Even when the Bill progresses to the other place, I fear that there will be timetabling delays. As we heard, the Bill also has a two-month commencement date, so it will not be implemented for several months. That is important because, should a First or Deputy First Minister leave office, only two weeks are provided to fill the slots. There is then a duty on the Secretary of State to call an election, but history shows that the election is often not called immediately and Northern Ireland is left ungoverned.”
“Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I commend the debate and the discussion about the First Minister’s titles and many of the other issues raised by the hon. Member for North Down (Stephen Farry). I am particularly sympathetic about the commencement date. However, I do not believe that this is the right place or the right Bill for many of the other amendments. Even more importantly, they risk the House losing focus on the important issue at hand: the need to implement the clauses in the Bill that assert the continuation of the Executive, with Ministers in caretaker roles, should a First or Deputy First Minister exit power sharing. A number of witnesses in Committee raised the importance of those clauses. The sustainability clauses were a key part of last year’s New Decade, New Approach agreement and they have not yet been implemented.”
“Much time was spent by negotiators on the other side of the argument who wanted to balance and to limit the scope of the provisions both in legislative terms and in practical terms, particularly for signage and public signs. I make no comment on the merits or otherwise of this, but there is no Irish language Act in the New Decade, New Approach agreement—rather a series of carefully nuanced cultural provisions to reflect and represent all communities in Northern Ireland.”
“While I would support a vote here in extremis, I believe that, following the agreement between the two main parties and the Secretary of State last week, we should encourage the new Executive and the Assembly to enact those themselves. Many hours and days were spent agreeing these and the other provisions of the NDNA agreement, and I would make two broad points. First, it is wrong for some to claim or to report that there is an Irish language Act in the NDNA agreement; there is not. Negotiators wanting an Irish language provision won important language provisions, but not the all-encompassing Act that was their initial goal.”
“As well as dealing with the covid crisis, the Northern Ireland Executive have done positive work over the past 18 months on infrastructure, on city deals, on climate change and on getting the finances under control—the Fiscal Commission and the Fiscal Council have been set up—so although the last year has been very bumpy at times, much has been achieved by this group of people. This Bill does not contain components of NDNA that have been in the media recently—namely, the cultural package and the protocol. While I understand there are parties here that want to propose amendments to the Bill to enact the cultural components of NDNA, it is in my view important that that should be the final resort. The cultural components of NDNA are clearly a matter for the Assembly.”
“Nichola Mallon, Conor Murphy, Robin Swann, Naomi Long, Michelle O’Neill, Arlene Foster and all the other members of the Executive got stuck in during this period, and that has been really important. I would also like to pay tribute to Diane Dodds, Peter Weir and Gordon Lyons, who left the previous Executive. Let us see whether they will be in for just a short period on the Back Benches; they—or one of them—could well be back very soon. I also join colleagues who have sent congratulations to the right hon. Member for Lagan Valley (Sir Jeffrey M. Donaldson) on his election as DUP leader.”
“I rise to support the Bill, and I would like to pay tribute to the MLAs and to the Northern Ireland Executive for the role that they have played during the coronavirus crisis. There were lots of reasons why I was delighted that the Executive and the Assembly got up and running last January, but that was before we knew about covid. To have had no Government during this period does not bear thinking about, and all my thoughts are with the families and friends of those who have lost loved ones across Northern Ireland as a result of these tragic 18 months. It is worth pointing out that one of the exciting things in the restoration was the fact that all five parties engaged with it.”
“I would argue that all parties got a lot, and all parties negotiated hard, including the hon. Member’s own, and of course the DUP. The second item that is not part of this Bill is the Northern Ireland protocol. I note that the Government have now asked for an extension of the grace period, and I am pleased to see that the EU response looks positive. I called last year for the Government to negotiate a grace period for the whole of 2021, and I believe now that they should cut a deal around the offer by the EU of a veterinary zone—a temporary veterinary zone. I would encourage a compromise on both sides to meet halfway and to ease the many practical complaints from Northern Ireland business. I am pleased that the rhetoric is easing, and I would encourage everyone to continue to dial it down.”
“The UK Government cannot guarantee a Unionist First Minister for ever more, and they cannot change the fact that they signed an international agreement to exit the EU, which contains issues that need to be resolved. We in this House must be clear and honest about those facts. However, the Government can and will support the Assembly and Executive in supporting and developing this important and unique part of the UK, and in doing so they create the best possible protection of the Union. The Bill contains important technical amendments to the Northern Ireland Act 1998, to ensure that the best vehicle for doing that, the devolved Northern Ireland Assembly, continues to prosper. It also reconfirms today that the Good Friday agreement remains the only show in town.”
“It also risks missing the opportunities provided by the protocol, and not maximising the big opportunities of power sharing, and how that can deliver on the issues that matter most to the majority of Northern Ireland citizens, such as improving waiting lists, inward investment and jobs, education, coming out of the pandemic and enhancing incomes and life chances. There is the first Northern Ireland Youth Assembly in years, and a fantastic new head of the Northern Ireland civil service, whose obsession is innovation and how to make Northern Ireland more competitive globally, given its position on the cusp of the EU and UK, is about to take power at Stormont.”
“As they have shown during this covid crisis, this Government will continue to do that for the foreseeable future. If that is the case, the noise and headlines of the past few months risk leading many people down paths that will not come to pass, and missing the massive opportunities that the GFA hybrid situation provides, such as all-Ireland opportunities for infrastructure and climate change, east-west opportunities for work and progress on health and other issues, and huge opportunities to maximise Northern Ireland’s position coming out of the pandemic.”
“Whether as a result of what people have been through, its contested status, or the beauty of its land and the skills, capabilities and intelligence of its people, Northern Ireland is a unique part of the world. It is a great place to live, an exciting place to do business, and it is full of positivity and dynamism. There has been much talk about a new Ireland, a united Ireland, and threats to the Union in recent weeks, but the high probability is that the Good Friday agreement will maintain the status quo for many years to come. Successive UK Governments have said that they will respect that agreement, and that the provisions in it, particularly those on the Executive and the Assembly that we are discussing, will have ongoing support from this House.”
“Finally, the Bill will ensure stricter adherence by Ministers to the Nolan principles and to higher standards in public life, following various scandals such as the renewable heat initiative scandal, and others, and address the misuse of public money and the need to maintain high standards in ministerial office. We have heard reference to the significant tension in the politics of Northern Ireland over the past weeks and months regarding the protocol, language, leadership putsches and leadership contests. There have been burning buses, marches and demonstrations. The headlines of the past few months do not represent my experience of Northern Ireland.”
“The petition of concern provisions came from hard-fought negotiations by the Alliance, the SDLP and the Ulster Unionists, to ensure that both the major parties did not continue to abuse the veto mechanism, as had historically happened. Although provisions in the Bill do not go as far as those parties had hoped, they contain practical and positive improvements that make the petition of concern more difficult to abuse. The UK Government have also agreed in the overall agreement to review the usage of the petition of concern, and lay a report before Parliament every six months.”
“I strongly believe that the protocol can be light touch, but it does require significant amounts of practical working behind the scenes and not politicising every particular issue. I strongly believe that can happen, and I believe it will happen. I would urge both the EU and the UK Government to continue a positive, practical dialogue through the Joint Committee. The Bill provides for a number of important and practical measures. It ensures more time to work through the creation of an Executive should there be Dissolution after an election. The 24 weeks for things to be worked out in a positive way is important, because we must avoid the three-year impasse that we have had before.”
“I support the Prime Minister’s comments on Jo Cox and, as a former Chief Whip, his comment on Sir Roy Stone. Sir Roy gave amazing service to me when I was Chief Whip during the worst of the Brexit years in dealing with a hung Parliament and with the occasional disruptive Back Bencher. Northern Ireland faces some challenges over the coming weeks in terms of nominating a First Minister and a Deputy First Minister. Does the Prime Minister agree that it is vital that the parties stick to the agreements that have been made in the “New Decade, New Approach” deal, which he and I negotiated 18 months ago, and that if they fail to do that—I know he does not like this concept—the UK Government ultimately act as a backstop?”
“I welcome the Government’s apology today. This tragic case lays bare again the horrors of the troubles for victims and families from all parts of Northern Ireland. When I and the Government signed the New Decade, New Approach agreement over a year ago we committed to intensive discussions with victims’ groups, but for a variety of reasons that has not happened. I am concerned about that. Will the Secretary of State commit today to undertaking comprehensive discussions with victims’ groups and victims directly, and give us a timeline for that? Will he also confirm that he will not bring legislation back to this House until that engagement has happened and victims and families have been able to shape and be part of what the Government are proposing to resolve the issues of legacy?”
“I thank the Prime Minister for the decisions he took last year that have meant that the vaccine programme is in such a good position this week. Despite that success, it is vital that the programme keeps pace with the changing variants. Will he update the House on where the UK stands on ensuring that the UK supply chain is in place and that we do not get behind as the virus mutates?”
“What does the EU need in return from the UK on other fronts to resolve these issues in the long term, and what does the EU need to do to give confidence, particularly to Unionists across Northern Ireland, that it understands that the Good Friday agreement and the protocol are matters of a joint duty of care for both the EU and the UK?”
“The action taken last week follows the EU’s track record of a lack of understanding of the sensitivities in Northern Ireland. We saw it during the Brexit process, with the EU’s intransigence about not providing the then Prime Minister, my right hon. Friend the Member for Maidenhead (Mrs May), with an exit mechanism to the backstop, and we saw it again in the run-up to the protocol, with the EU ignoring our requests for trusted-trader schemes and other flexibilities. I urge my right hon. Friend to take this discussion out of the purely technical discussions around the Northern Ireland protocol and transform it into a more strategic discussion with the EU.”
“I welcome my right hon. Friend’s remarks. I particularly welcome the confidence that he is planning to give to UK businesses to continue to trade in Northern Ireland—a fantastic base for their products and services. Will he confirm that the protocol is a joint UK-EU responsibility and, in that light, will he look at setting up immediately the joint working group, beneath the Joint Committee, and also use his negotiating talents and the relationships that he built up last year in completing the protocol to make 2021 a grace period for supermarkets in Northern Ireland? I think the EU will be up for that deal, so let us make it happen.”
“I welcome the agreement and thank my right hon. Friend and his civil service team for getting us to this stage, but may I urge him to spend some time with the Protestant Unionist loyalist community, who have retained concerns about the detail? I suggest that Mikala’s Kitchen on the Shankill Road is the best place for that engagement. Could he also now spend some time with the nationalist community, unaligned voters and passionate supporters of the European Union in Northern Ireland to demonstrate to them that the practical approach that he and the EU have taken on the protocol can now be replicated on issues such as climate change, health, jobs and the future of all people across the island of Ireland?”
“I support the Prime Minister on the difficult balance and the difficult decision that he had to make this weekend, but I urge him, before he signs off on the guidance for care homes, to do everything possible to help families who visit loved ones in care homes and to look into ideas such as the designation of a family member who would be tested regularly and able to visit.”
“There has been really positive engagement between No. 10, the Government and local authorities in the north of England over this weekend. I support calls for local authorities to do more on track and trace and on the issue of care home visitor access. Will the Prime Minister keep encouraging his teams to look at creative solutions between local authorities and Government, and how we allow loved ones to visit their sick and elderly relatives?”
“Does my right hon. Friend agree that the independent commissioner, established under the 2016 Act by this House, has, in the 2018 report of the analysis on MI5 and other agencies, written very positively about the processes, the applications for CHIS and the rigour that these organisations go through? It is important that the House realises that these processes are rigorous, detailed and already in place.”
“In its legal adjudication on the third direction earlier this year, a majority on the Investigatory Powers Tribunal—the special tribunal overseeing the intelligence services—found that the oversight powers currently given to the Investigatory Powers Commissioner provided “adequate safeguards against the risk of abuse of discretionary power”. It is important in our debate on the Bill to recognise those comments in that judgment, which is partly the reason that the Government have introduced the Bill.”
“The women and men in our intelligence agencies, and those who supervise and work with them, work behind the scenes, are never publicly recognised. They are civil servants of the highest quality and integrity, and I believe the Bill will further strengthen their ability to do their work.”
“The House and colleagues have to take comfort from the initiatives of the Intelligence and Security Committee, the application of the European convention on human rights to CHIS activity and the role of independent commissioners to provide rigorous oversight. The Bill is clear that these powers do not give carte blanche to agents. The Crown Prosecution Service can still consider prosecutions for activities that fall outside those that have been authorised. Finally, it is vital to note, as my right hon. Friend the Member for Chipping Barnet (Theresa Villiers), the former Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, has just stated, that the Bill is not retrospective and will not impact on any historical investigation.”
“As IPCO’s annual reports show, the double lock on warrantry applications, for example, involves detailed interaction between the authorising Secretary of State and their officials, and IPCO and its judicial commissioners. Anybody who has been involved in the process will know that it is a very strong double lock. The Investigatory Powers Tribunal, which is independent of the Government, provides a further independent appeal route, which is available to all at no cost. The third point, with regard to CHIS, agents and criminality, is that this is an area of intelligence-gathering activity that is invariably difficult to manage in the same way as other intelligence gathering—for example, warrantry. We cannot hope to micromanage such activity from this House.”
“The 2018 Investigatory Powers Commissioner report, which is well worth reading, confirms that there is adequate guidance in place within MI5 regarding agent handling and that the then Prime Minister directed the commissioner to ensure that that guidance was being enforced. The report also points to the quality of applications by MI5 for the use of CHIS, noting that there are strong controls already in place. The second point is that this Bill builds on an already rigorous oversight regime for our intelligence services. This stringent control environment has developed over many years, but the Investigatory Powers Act 2016 established a new single oversight body. The Investigatory Powers Commissioner has had a transformative impact on the level of oversight on all aspects of intelligence gathering.”
“I support the Bill, and I congratulate the Security Minister on bringing his practical knowledge from many years to guiding the Bill through the House. I want to make four brief points on the security services. This Bill makes the ongoing function explicitly clear in law, but it is really important that we fully understand that there are already very clear processes in place regarding agent handling and how they interact with criminal acts. As the third direction hearing and adjudication by the Investigatory Powers Tribunal showed, no further powers were required. It was just a win—it was 3-2—but the IPT said that it was lawful.”
“What assessment he has made of the timescale for the implementation of the pension scheme payments for victims of the Troubles in Northern Ireland.”
“Paddy Cassidy and Raymond Trimble have died since the pension and payment scheme became law, and many other victims are extremely ill. I urge my right hon. Friend to do whatever he can to provide the Executive with confidence that money will be forthcoming in the usual way through the block grant. Will he also do everything possible to dispel the horrendous myths that have been peddled about the payment scheme over the past few weeks? The scheme will primarily benefit civilians on both sides of the community who are desperate to have the recognition that they have been promised.”
“I thank the Minister for that answer. Many business sectors across Northern Ireland are extremely concerned about the challenges for their individual areas. May I urge the team over the summer to work as hard as possible to ensure sector-specific approaches to implementation so that we do not just go for a one-size-fits-all policy?”
“With so many of our small and UK-wide businesses struggling to survive following the covid crisis, the idea of adding additional friction and cost to the trading relationship with their biggest market is deeply problematic and worrying. My right hon. Friend has worked extremely hard for the country over the past few months, but I urge him to do everything he can to ensure that the UK gets a deal with minimal tariffs and minimum friction.”
“I welcome the Minister’s comments on speed. We need to give people and businesses notice as soon as possible about the changes that they need to prepare for. On guidance, may I urge her to look at the fact that many businesses have not realised the consequences of coming out of the single market and the customs union? We can start preparing them for that reality. On the Northern Ireland protocol, there are businesses reporting to me that they are now moving jobs to the Republic. What progress has been made on implementing and discussing the checks and other measures that businesses will have to prepare for in Northern Ireland?”
“It is worth saying that these regulations do reflect the very sensitive situation in Northern Ireland on conscientious objection and the locations that abortions can be performed in. I support the Minister of State in saying that we did give an option, at every stage since the Act was passed last year, for politicians to get back into power and shape these reforms. I urge him to keep pushing forward and have the best interests of women and girls at the forefront of his mind.”
“The Department of Justice stands ready to administer the scheme. The panel that has been set up will look at each case in its entirety and make an all-round judgment on it. My big worry is the victims who are, in many cases, in ill health and a difficult mental health situation. They are desperate for this to be resolved. I urge my hon. Friend to continue to press the Executive, to tell the Justice Department to get on with it, get the scheme going—the money will come—and get this thing started.”
“I welcome the Command Paper, but we now, as my right hon. Friend has said, need quickly to reassure the Unionist grassroots on their fears about the exact nature of the processes referred to, and nationalist and non-aligned voters who have serious concerns about leaving the EU. Above all, on business, I am not sure that we have got seven months. Businesses in Northern Ireland, as in the rest of the UK, have got their backs against the wall with covid. Please, please will my right hon. Friend use all his energy to work with them on exactly what they will need and a constructive approach with the EU to getting a practical solution?”
“More than 5,000 rough sleepers—90% of the homeless population in the UK—are now in temporary accommodation as a result of action taken by the Government at the start of this crisis. Will the Prime Minister commit to providing all funds necessary and taking all action needed to ensure that this positive way of dealing with the homelessness crisis can be made permanent and that each of those individuals can be given a long-term home?”
“The UK Government are providing the restored Executive with a £2 billion financial package that delivers for the people of Northern Ireland and supports delivery of the “New Decade, New Approach” agreement. This financial commitment represents the biggest injection of new money in a Northern Ireland talks deal in well over a decade. The £2 billion of extra investment gives the Executive the means to transform the lives of people in Northern Ireland for a generation.”
“Indeed, the hon. Gentleman is right. There has been a very good start, and there have been multiple meetings here in Whitehall with joint Ministers. We have had a Joint Ministerial Committee in Cardiff, and yesterday both the First and Deputy First Ministers attended, for the first time ever, a recruitment drive by the Police Service of Northern Ireland. We have seen a very positive start, and I hope that that continues.”
“Indeed, my hon. Friend is right. Voters in Northern Ireland realise that this is a good package. There is a Budget coming up in March, and I am sure that if the Executive prioritise their programme of government there will be a positive future for the whole of Northern Ireland.”
“I think that the hon. Lady knows that this package is a unique package for Northern Ireland, and is not subject to the Barnett consequentials. She also knows that there is a very, very good Secretary of State for Scotland, who enjoys working positively with her and her colleagues.”
“The answers are to be found with the Executive. It is up to the devolved Government to look at how best to spend the package. It is up to the parties and the Executive to work through how they deliver on their side of the agreement, which is to transform both the health service and education. It is not for me to come up with those answers, but I look forward to hearing theirs.”