Debbie Abrahams
MP for Oldham East and Saddleworth · Labour · United Kingdom
“I thank my right hon. Friend for his statement and congratulate him on not just the content, but the tone of his delivery. He has elevated the status of not just this Parliament and this Government, but this country, by ensuring that everybody—all states and all individuals—are seen as equal before the law and in terms of human rights.”
“I welcome my right hon. Friend to his place and thank him for his statement. I particularly agree with what he was saying about social security and tackling the drivers of the high rates of young people not in education, employment or training.”
“] I have just about half a minute left, if that is convenient, Madam Deputy Speaker. The Committee recommends a more holistic approach to future assessments. The Department should consider the cumulative impact of policies on individuals.”
“We also heard that almost half of people aged 60 to 66 in the lowest income quintile were already classified as frail. These are people who are vulnerable to deterioration in physical and cognitive functioning.”
“The evidence that we received was clear: financial resources, the capacity to work, and good health help people manage the transition to a higher state pension age. However, many people reach their early 60s in poor health and unable to work, after years in low-paid and often physically demanding work.”
“There are other reasons why people leave work before state pension age, including becoming family carers. On the flip side, we heard about older workers who wanted to work but could not find a suitable job, and people who had left employment because of illness or caring responsibilities and could not get back into work.”
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“Of these, 148,000 can be linked to austerity”— directly linked to austerity. “In 2020, the first year of the covid pandemic, there were a further 28,000 deaths” that could have been prevented. Those are the consequences of the poverty and inequality that we have in this country. The Select Committee is undertaking an inquiry into the adequacy of social security support. With that in mind, I once more commend the Joseph Rowntree Foundation and the Trussell Trust, which have put together some interesting recommendations on the essentials guarantee. They suggest that what we provide should be based on need rather than on some quite subjective view of what the level of support should be. I hope the Work and Pensions Committee can support some aspect of that.”
“We need a healthy labour market to be able to provide the growth we all want to see across the country, but, again, all the evidence suggests that will not happen for the reasons set out by my right hon. Friend the Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell). This is becoming an increasingly unhealthy country. Our healthy life expectancy is declining and our life expectancy is declining, and that has been happening since 2017. At the time, Professor Sir Michael Marmot warned what the consequences would be, and he was right. In the report that he produced at the beginning of the year—I asked the Prime Minister a question about this just last week—he said that “if everyone had the good health of the least deprived 10% of the population there would have been 1 million fewer deaths in England in the period 2012 to 2019.”
“That is a very good point. The Department for Work and Pensions has the largest spending across Government. The state pension accounts for the largest part of the Department’s spending, followed by universal credit, but third on the list is housing benefit and the support provided through the housing element of universal credit. Given that the Government are investing a large amount of taxpayers’ money in housing, one would think there was some way to safeguard its quality. My hon. Friend the Member for Wirral South made important points about the escalation in the use of food banks. As I have said before, we did not have a food bank in Oldham before 2010; we now have several to meet the need. We are aware of the impact of poverty on the labour market, which I know is of interest to the Minister.”
“Yasin Malik, a political leader of the Jammu Kashmir Liberation Front, was given a life sentence in 2022. The Indian authorities appealed that sentence last year, seeking the death penalty, and the judgment is due on 14 February. Given the UK’s long-standing opposition to the death penalty, what discussions has the Minister had with the Indian authorities about this important case?”
“I also have several cases in my constituency, where children and young people can wait months, if not years, not just for assessment but for a plan to address their needs. Sense has reported that less than half of local authorities have multi-sensory impairment teachers, and the National Autistic Society reports that three in four parents say that their children’s schools do not fully cover their needs. What are the Government doing about that?”
“I am increasingly worried about the trend in this Government towards the casual acceptance of international law and international courts when it suits. That really is not good enough. The ICJ interim ruling stated that article II of the genocide convention must be upheld, including ensuring the provision of humanitarian assistance to civilians in Gaza. Given what the Minister has said about UNRWA, and the fact that it is the largest humanitarian agency in Gaza, if the UK and other donors decide not just to pause their support, but to cease it completely and permanently, how are the Government and other international donors going to ensure the same capacity of humanitarian relief—and if they do not, are they in contempt of the ICJ ruling?”
“Small businesses are the backbone of our economy, but unfortunately late payments continue to blight the ability of small businesses to trade, with an average of £684 million a year being lost. Unfortunately, that is on the increase, with a 7% increase in 2023. I appreciate what the Minister said about another review— I think we had one a few years ago—but what specific actions are the Government taking to address this appalling abuse of power, which is contributing to 50,000 small businesses going under a year?”
“T5. Will the Post Office Minister meet me and my constituent, who was a postmistress? She lost £250,000 in 2000. It is an unusual case, otherwise I would write to him, but it does need him to meet her, so I would be grateful if he would do that.”
“As the UN has stated: “There are deep inter-connections between ending such blatant violations of those rights, providing freedom from fear, and the right to security, dignity, equality and justice.” I want to talk about the case of Yasin Malik in more detail. The Supreme Court of India is awaiting a decision on whether his life sentence will be changed to a death penalty. That is imminent. It seems absolutely at odds with the fact that India is a signatory to the UN convention. I would very much appreciate a response from the Minister on that point.”
“The UN reports raised concerns about women’s rights in particular, and reported the use of gender-based violence in Jammu and Kashmir in Indian-administered Kashmir. There are also considerable concerns about the detention without trial of Khurram Parvez, a human rights activist—we still have not had any news about his release—and the unsafe conviction of Yasin Malik. Those are just two examples about which a range of human rights agencies—Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and, as I mentioned, the Office of the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights—have raised concerns. They have advocated for the repeal of the public safety act and the Armed Forces (Special Powers) Act, which contravene international humanitarian law.”
“Once again, I call for an immediate ceasefire, the safe return of each and every hostage, the delivery of unrestricted humanitarian aid, and the end of the total siege on the Gaza strip. As I mentioned to the Leader of the House and the Prime Minister yesterday, the partner of one of my constituents is still awaiting evacuation from southern Gaza. If the Minister has any news, I would be very grateful. I mentioned yesterday that he was attacked over the weekend, suffered a broken leg and has not received any healthcare. I turn to Kashmir. The Office of the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights has done some excellent work. Many Members here will be familiar with the reports it produced in 2018 and 2019 on human rights abuses in both Indian-administered and Pakistan-administered Kashmir.”
“That seems to me to be disproportionate and collective punishment of innocent people. Human rights and the rule of law must apply to all, and at all times, not just when it is convenient, whether for the UK or its allies. Those deaths must be investigated by the International Criminal Court. Similarly, I await the judgment from the International Court of Justice on the potential genocide of Palestinian people. The international community must do better, and we must do better. I have been working with the Office of the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, on both Kashmir and, more recently, Gaza. I am also involved with the Global Compassion Coalition, trying to spread the message of the International Association of Parliamentarians for Peace. We all collectively want to see actions to support a ceasefire.”
“I have campaigned for a two-state solution ever since, including by supporting the work of the Saddleworth Palestine Women’s Scholarship Fund, which has funded Palestinian women in Gaza and the west bank through education. We had a presentation from somebody from the fund who visited Gaza in the summer to see how the women we had been supporting were doing. Back in November, she reported that, unfortunately, a number of the students we had supported had been killed in attacks. I cannot describe the sense of loss. Since the heinous attacks of 7 October and the abduction of the hostages, there have been attacks on Gazan civilians by Israeli forces, with over 25,000 deaths, three quarters of which were women and children, over 60,000 injured, and many thousands missing.”
“Quite frankly, I was absolutely horrified by what I saw and heard: healthcare being withheld from Palestinians, the destruction of Palestinian homes and schools on the west bank, the physical exclusion of Palestinians from their own farmland and the arbitrary application of law. By that, I mean that children who were picked up for throwing stones at cars and soldiers had the full force of an adult criminal justice system thrown at them, and were often detained without trial. It really was quite horrendous and draconian. All those actions are clear contraventions of rights associated with articles of the universal declaration of human rights.”
“It is an absolute pleasure to serve under your chairship, Dame Maria. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Luton North (Sarah Owen) on her absolutely superb speech, which was so broad ranging. It really was fantastic. I want to focus on human rights abuses in Palestine and Kashmir. I am chair of the all-party parliamentary Kashmir group, and vice-chair of the Britain-Palestine all-party parliamentary group. My focus in both groups has been on human rights and our common dignity and humanity. We are all born free and equal in dignity and rights. I visited the Occupied Palestinian Territories back in 2014, when I was a relatively new MP.”
“I totally agree. As we have seen, we were asleep at the wheel on Israel and Gaza. A few years ago when we visited Pakistan, we were warned by the high commissioner that Kashmir, at a geopolitical level, is the most significant concern for stability and safety. We cannot go on ignoring Kashmir; as my hon. Friend mentioned earlier, we must get resolution, together with the Kashmiri people, who are right at the heart of this. I will not try your patience any more, Dame Maria. Human rights apply to every single one of us, wherever we are and at all times. We cannot dip in and out of them when it suits our purpose.”
“Q5. If everyone had the same good health as the least deprived 10% of the population, in England there would have been 1 million fewer deaths between 2012 and 2019, and 28,000 fewer deaths in the first year of covid. Those inequalities are not inevitable. Does the Prime Minister think that cuts in social security to 85,000 low-income households, including people in low-paid work in my constituency, will help to address those health inequalities?”
“We have just had a debate in Westminster Hall on human rights, and Gaza came up. During the debate it was revealed that the Foreign Office had sought evidence from its legal advisers on the legality of actions that have been taken by Israel, going back to 10 November. We did not receive a satisfactory answer from the Minister responding to that debate, but should the Government not publish that advice? I also understand that since the new Foreign Secretary arrived he has asked for a review of that legal advice.”
“I, too, share concerns about what the strategy is, what the contagion to the rest of the middle east will be, and the possibility that might be bolstering the Houthis’ position in Yemen. Can I ask the Prime Minister about a constituent’s partner, who I mentioned to the Leader of the House last Thursday? He has been awaiting evacuation from south Gaza for a number of months. He has now suffered a broken leg and is receiving no healthcare. I urge the Prime Minister to liaise with the Israeli and Egyptian authorities for his immediate evacuation—it cannot carry on.”
“If it’s not about making people’s lives better, don’t be a politician.” I ask all colleagues, in Tony’s memory, to redouble our efforts to make people’s lives better. Rest in peace, Tony.”
“Tony was the embodiment of politics as public service: deeply humble, conscientious and compassionate. He worked tirelessly in the interests of his constituents, not for himself. As a constituency neighbour, I know the work that Tony put into his work in Rochdale. He called me just before Christmas, because there was a particular issue that he said he needed my help on and wondered whether the wording of a letter was just right. The way he worked was so collaborative; it was quite special. Tony was not interested in politics as a game or a sport. He was passionate about changing lives and our politics being the vehicle to do just that. I will always think about his poignant words when speaking to a young constituent: “For me politics is about all people, it’s that sense of human solidarity that matters.”
“As police and crime commissioner, Tony organised a roundtable on tackling violence against women and girls. He invited me along because he knew that I was passionate about that. He showed such empathy to the women who were there because of their experiences. I also remember his help in a constituency case for a mum who had lost her son to murder. Again, the way he was with her was quite remarkable. Most recently, when we knew that Tony was poorly, I was really keen to organise a Parliamentarians for Peace event—thank you for that, Mr Speaker—and as soon as I sent the message around, he was the first to respond, saying, “Yes, we must do something. I’ll be there.” Unfortunately, he was not able to be there, but I knew that he absolutely wanted to be.”
“It is so sad that today we are paying tribute to our dear friend and colleague, and my constituency neighbour, Tony. I have listened to so many stories this afternoon, and it is a testament to the person Tony was that people from all sides of the House have spoken so strongly about him. I hope that provides some comfort to his family and his staff, who I know loved him so much. One thing that sticks out is not only the enormous impact that Tony had on British politics, but the high regard in which he was held, which is quite unusual in this place. What has really stood out is that almost everyone has an individual story and mentions his kindness. I absolutely agree with that. My recollection is of the kindness he showed me when I was a new MP and he was chair of the parliamentary Labour party.”
“There are clear inequalities in vaccination uptake, including MMR, which reflect various socioeconomic inequalities. What extra support is being given to those areas, and to places such as mine, and why, as the Chair of the Health and Social Care Committee suggests, was the risk assessment of the UK Health Security Agency seemingly ignored by the Government?”
“I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend the Member for Slough (Mr Dhesi). In spite of the Minister’s protestations, the evidence is to the contrary — [ Interruption. ]”
“The fact that Ministers’ mates can get these lucrative contracts, as last month’s evidence showed, while tens of thousands of our constituents struggle to put food on the table is an absolute disgrace. Of the £12.6 billion-worth of personal protective equipment contracts let in 2020, will the Minister confirm—I have evidence on this, so I advise him to choose his language carefully—that up to a third were fraudulent, or the result of profiteering or conflicts of interest?”
“May I add my condolences to Tony Lloyd’s family? He was a dear friend and colleague, and he was particularly kind to me when I was first elected in a by-election, 13 years ago. My constituent’s partner has been awaiting evacuation from Gaza for months now. Her partner has evidence that others in exactly the same circumstances as him are being prioritised over him. Although my office and I have been in almost daily contact with not only the Foreign Office—I thank Lord Ahmad for his support—but the Israeli and Egyptian embassies, I would be grateful if the Leader of the House could liaise with the Foreign Office and identify exactly when my constituent’s partner can be brought home.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Paisley. I have a couple of quick questions for the Minister. First, on clause 3 and the assessment that the Government have undertaken of its economic impact on the sector, particularly in relation to the current TV ads slump, how much will it offset that and what timescales are the Government considering? On clause 4 and theatre production companies, is there a size limit for the companies that the measures will relate to?”
“May I absolutely confirm that there will be no retrospective tax collection deductions of carer’s allowance? That is so important, given the issues around deductions.”
“Just to clarify, if notification is given 12 months in advance, does that mean that there will be a more progressive approach to taxation for private jets in this Budget?”
“Indeed, it is almost a universal law that most of the societies with the smallest gaps between rich and poor do better than other societies, not just in health but in social mobility, crime reduction, increasing trust and so on, which are things that I think all of us here would subscribe to.”
“I refer to 1980 because that was when our real understanding of the relationship between poverty and health began. The Black report was in 1980, and it was followed by Dame Margaret Whitehead, my former colleague at the University of Liverpool, authoring “The Health Divide”, which described the socioeconomic inequalities that drive health inequalities. Of course, that was in post-war Britain—a Britain with the NHS. Everybody thought that the NHS would be the saviour that would end all our health woes. Evidence of the relationship between poverty and health has increased. “The Spirit Level”, by Professors Pickett and Wilkinson, showed that this is a universal experience and not just one in the UK. Health is driven by inequalities in societies right across the world.”
“It is not about changing anything in the Bill; it is about understanding what its impact will be. It is about our not working in silos and understanding the Bill’s impact on the NHS, education and so on. That is why I tabled it. The new clause is also about transparency, to which the Prime Minister is very committed. It will have an important impact on the electorate’s lack of confidence not just in the Government, but in politics and all politicians. It is important that we are seen to be transparent and to be evaluating the work that we do. We can do that in a prospective way that anticipates what the impacts will be. Finally, although the Government have a massive commitment to levelling up, we are experiencing one of the biggest health divides since 1980.”
“I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time. It has been a pleasure to serve under your chairship during today’s proceedings, Mr Paisley. New clause 3 would compel the Chancellor to assess the impacts of the Finance Bill on poverty, inequality, and health and healthcare demand across the UK, and to lay a report before the House within six months of Royal Assent. Let me expand a little on why the new clause is so important. This is the first opportunity I have had to come to a Finance Bill Committee to advance these arguments, although I have regularly made them on Report and Third Reading. The new clause partly reflects my experience as a former public health consultant and academic, and relates to one of the reasons that I became an MP. It is about tackling health inequalities.”
“On that basis, I did ask a question at the autumn statement. In relation to the social security measures, I asked what were the anticipated impacts on the health of social security claimants. I have heard nothing back from anyone on that. If that evidence exists, what is it?”
“T5. More than 15% of families in my constituency live in fuel poverty, with a median energy efficiency score of just 65. How much of the 2019 general election manifesto pledge to spend £9.2 billion on improving energy efficiency has gone on retrofitting existing properties and not on new builds?”
“As much as the Houthis might wish to conflate their piracy with support for the Palestinian people, their indiscriminate attacks on shipping from across the world indicate otherwise. But while I agree that under international law there was justification for this military intervention, what was the Prime Minister’s assessment of the risk that the action could ignite conflict across the middle east, and of apparent double standards in when the UK or its allies choose to observe international law?”
“We have come such a long way in the past 20 years, with incredible advances in scientific research that has culminated in the discovery of those novel drugs. Such effort cannot be wasted by Government inactivity and failure to respond. Simply put, scientists are doing their job to give us new treatments, but now it is up to the Government to do theirs and ensure the system is ready to deliver therapies to the people who need them. It is time to make dementia a priority and we should make a start. I thank the Alzheimer’s Society for its support with the APPG.”
“We need a transformational change to the diagnostic workforce to ensure sufficient workforce capacity with the necessary skills and expertise to administer the required specialist tests and make diagnoses. Meaningful involvement of the people living with Alzheimer’s disease and their carers must be central to plans for system preparedness, with continuous consultation from the outset and ongoing oversight through an established group. I am sure we would all agree that we are at a pivotal moment for dementia in this country. Lecanemab, donanemab and the treatments that might follow have the potential to improve the lives of hundreds of thousands of people, but we need to act now to ensure we are ready to deliver them as soon as they become available.”
“As I mentioned, a specific diagnosis is required and the PET scanner and CSF test are the only tests that can give evidence of the presence of amyloid in the brain, but access to those tests is woefully restricted due to lack of equipment. I had not picked up on the cost-effectiveness, so I thank the right hon. Member for raising that. Workforce and diagnostic barriers can be overcome with clear and decisive action from Government. I want to see at pace an expansion of diagnostic capacity so that everyone with suspected Alzheimer’s disease can access a test to confirm eligibility for treatment at an early stage in their disease progression. We must address the current inequalities in diagnosis across the country.”
“First, not enough people are being diagnosed at an early stage of disease progression. Many memory services are struggling to meet current demand, let alone the expected increase if disease-modifying treatments do become available. Secondly, there is a lack of sub-type diagnosis. As I mentioned at the start, there are more than 100 different diseases that cause dementia. Too often people receive a general diagnosis of dementia without a sub-type. Without that, it is impossible to determine an individual’s suitability for the new drugs. Thirdly, there is insufficient access to positron emission tomography scanners and cerebrospinal fluid testing—the lumbar puncture testing that the right hon. Member for Ashford mentioned.”
“Currently, none of those individuals would be able to access these novel therapies. A few months ago, the APPG on dementia produced a report on diagnosis rates and the inequalities in the diagnosis rates. I heard of a diagnosis rate lower than the rate of 50% in Hereford mentioned by the right hon. Member for Ashford: a rate of 40% in Devon. The top marks go to Stoke. For whatever reason, Stoke seems to be doing very well, with a diagnosis rate of over 80%. Oldham, at 78%, has got a little bit of catching up to do to Stoke, but we are quite pleased with the direction of travel. We have not recovered to the pre-pandemic diagnosis rates. We all need to recognise what we can do about that. I urge the Government to look at the following three areas as a matter of urgency.”
“As co-chair of the APPG on dementia, I am quite happy to write a letter along those lines as well, together with the chair of the APPG on adult social care, the right hon. Member for Ashford. It just cannot happen. I urge the MHRA and NICE not to procrastinate, and to try to get this sorted as soon as possible without compromising the validity of their assessments. However, very worryingly, even if these drugs were given clinical approval tomorrow, we would unfortunately not be in a position to make use of them. That is the state of our health system at the moment. For lecanemab and donanemab to be effective, they require an early diagnosis of dementia and a specific sub-type diagnosis of Alzheimer’s disease. In England alone, a third of people with dementia do not have a diagnosis, and many only have a non-specific diagnosis of dementia.”
“Hopefully, one day, Alzheimer’s disease could be considered a long-term but manageable condition alongside diabetes and asthma. Lecanemab has already been approved as a safe drug by the Food and Drug Administration in the United States. As we have heard, we expect the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency to make a decision very soon. Then, of course, there is the clinical guidance associated with the implementation and use of these drugs, which is undertaken by NICE. I have to say that I had not picked up that, as the right hon. Member for Ashford said, it would look only at the impact on social care. I hope the Minister will respond that she will be writing to NICE to say that is just not acceptable.”
“As an aside, when I was undertaking personal care for my mum as she got to the late stages of her life—lifting her, lifting her head, and so on—I could feel the change in the shape of her head, because her brain was shrinking; it was just imploding on itself. I hope that gives a sense of what is happening in somebody with Alzheimer’s and of the ravages of the disease. To have two new disease-modifying drugs for Alzheimer’s disease in the space of a year is a turning point in the fight against the disease and could mean the beginning of the end of this devastating condition. Science is proving that it is possible to slow down the progression of the condition, and lecanemab and donanemab are the first of what we hope will be many more effective treatments.”
“In the past 18 months, we have seen the announcement of two effective disease-modifying treatments for early-stage Alzheimer’s that have been proven to slow the progress of the disease by 20% to 40%. That is really significant, and I share everybody’s excitement about it. Lecanemab and donanemab target and remove a protein called amyloid, which is what builds up in our brain and is harmful to it. It basically stops neurones communicating —not just with each other in the brain, but with all different parts of the body as well. They are really important drugs that will reduce the build-up, or clogging-up, of the neurones.”
“I was disappointed that the Government decided to absorb dementia into the major conditions strategy, and not give it the focus and attention that it deserves for all the reasons that the right hon. Gentleman has given. Unfortunately, that reflects a number of things, not least what is wrong with our political system and the short termism driven by where we are in the political cycle. Despite the serious challenges, this is an incredibly exciting time for dementia research. I advise people to look at the all-party parliamentary group’s report on dementia research, which we conducted a couple of years ago. It went right through all the developments, from prevention and looking at biomarkers all the way through to the quality of care and the evidence base around that. There is a lot to be excited about.”
“In addition to his point about NICE, we also need to be serious about the future of social care reforms, particularly the reforms recommended back in 2015 by Andrew Dilnot. Most importantly, we need to recognise that dementia is now the UK’s biggest killer. It has overtaken heart disease and cancer as the biggest killer in the country. We also need to understand that dementia is not a natural and automatic part of ageing. Although, yes, because we are an ageing society, there will be an increase in the prevalence of dementia, it does not mean that we automatically get it as we get older. It is clear that dementia is the most significant health and social care challenge of our time. I was disappointed that dementia has not had the political priority that it deserves.”
“I point people to the excellent work of Professor Sir Michael Marmot, who this week published his update that the picture is not changing, unfortunately. People with dementia account for more than 70% of those in residential care homes over the age of 65, and 60% of those receiving home care. As we will have seen from today’s NHS performance data, it is estimated that a quarter of NHS beds are occupied by people with dementia, who remain in hospital on average twice as long as people who do not live with the condition. Again, I agree with the right hon. Gentleman that, unfortunately, that reflects the crisis we have in social care. We just cannot discharge people from hospital knowing that they are not going to have the support that they need, whether that is in the community or in specialist residential care beds.”
“I also totally concur with him about the importance of prevention. We know that what is good for our heart is good for our head as well. The previous debate that you were chairing, Mr Sharma, was about smoking and tobacco use; we know that has a significant impact on dementia prevalence. I will reiterate some of the points that the right hon. Gentleman made about dementia. First, on prevalence, there are 900,000 people living with dementia in the UK, and that is likely to increase. I will pick him up on his point that life expectancy is increasing. It is not increasing; it is flatlining and has been since 2017. In areas such as mine, it is actually going down. The prevalence of dementia is reflected in that trend.”