Karin Smyth
MP for Bristol South · Labour · United Kingdom
“Absolutely, and I am committed to working with my hon. Friend and many other hon. Members across the House. I was pleased to meet my hon. Friend the Member for Manchester Withington (Jeff Smith) to discuss his amendments concerning medicines.”
“As the hon. and learned Gentleman knows—we have spent many long hours in this place discussing the arrangements with regard to our leaving the European Union—there are different regulations, as a result of Brexit, between Great Britain and Northern Ireland.”
“They provide a clearer legal framework for the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency to share information with UK health systems, organisations and trusted international partners.”
“I thank my hon. Friend for her best wishes and commend the work that she and many other Members are doing directly with their trusts to understand the impact of the work that we are doing to bring down those waiting lists and improve access for patients.”
“Member for Gosport (Dame Caroline Dinenage), who spoke powerfully on behalf of the whole House; I commend the work that she has done. My hon. Friend the Member for Kingston upon Hull West and Haltemprice (Emma Hardy) has spoken to me in great detail about this issue, as has my hon.”
“I will carry on. As the hon. Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham knows well, provisions are already in place to appropriately control access to puberty-suppressing hormones for children and young people presenting with gender incongruence or dysphoria. Children and young people with gender incongruence deserve evidence-based care.”
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“Non-prioritised applicants can still apply for the foundation programme and will be offered places if vacancies remain after prioritised applicants have received offers—I understand that is already happening for the 2026 recruitment round. For individuals who do not secure a foundation post this year, there remain alternative routes to pursuing a medical career in the UK. Those include obtaining GMC registration through the established pathways, such as completing an approved internship in the country where they trained and entering the UK healthcare system through a locally employed doctor role or other non-training posts. I ask the hon. Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham to withdraw the new clauses.”
“Doctors trained primarily in the UK are also likely to be better equipped to deliver healthcare that is tailored to the UK’s population, because they have a stronger understanding of UK-specific epidemiology and NHS practice. In addition, the Government set UK medical school places based on future health system needs. Student intakes and graduate outputs of overseas campuses are not included in our domestic workforce planning. If we prioritised British citizens for foundation training regardless of where they studied, it would undermine our aim to build UK-trained capacity while ensuring that we do not provide more foundation programme places than we need. I would like to emphasise—this is an important point—that prioritisation does not mean exclusion.”
“I appreciate the intention behind new clause 87, but the Government cannot support it. The Medical Training (Prioritisation) Act is designed to support a sustainable medical workforce that can meet population health needs and deliver the best patient care while reducing the UK’s reliance on an unpredictable international labour market. By creating a clear pathway for medical school to speciality training, we also strengthen domestic talent and improve retention. What matters is where a doctor is trained, not where they were born. Data shows that domestic graduates are more likely to stay in the country they trained in than those trained internationally.”
“It would be especially difficult to get consistent and comparable information from across the adult social care sector, where data can sometimes be fragmented. Instead, we think that the modern service framework for dementia and frailty is a more helpful vehicle for setting national standards of dementia diagnosis and care, and will serve to hold the sector to account. Additional reports, such as those requested by the new clause, would distract from that and result in duplication. The framework is still in development and work is ongoing to review the relevant data, metrics and targets to inform it. The framework will also set new national standards, which will help to inform meaningful analysis in the future—something that we are all very keen to see. For those reasons, I ask the hon. Member to withdraw the clause.”
“I completely understand the rationale behind the new clauses and the urgency with which people want to have sight of the sort of information outlined in them, but we do not think that the new clauses are necessary. I will highlight why. Some of the data that would be requested by new clause 96, such as details of research in the NHS and reports of lived experience, is already available and often provided by our charity partners, as well as by others. The new clause would therefore lead to a duplication of work. Provision of the other pieces of requested information and the data collection required to produce the report required by the new clause would likely be very onerous, placing additional stress on an already overstretched sector, and would distract from the core task of improving dementia care.”
“We largely agree with new clauses 96 and 97 and the comments of the hon. Member for Isle of Wight East. He cited some organisations: Alzheimer’s Society, Alzheimer’s Research UK and Dementia UK; hon. Members across the House have worked with them, and many other organisations in this field, and value the work that they do. The hon. Member rightly notes the work that they do to support the friends, families and carers of people with this disease, which is increasing in prevalence. He also commented on the importance of getting diagnosis earlier, and we are moving forward but we need to do so as fast as we can; I think we would all recognise that.”
“The preference-informed allocation system was introduced in 2024 following stakeholder engagement, because the previous system was felt to be unfair and stressful for applicants, with a lack of standardisation across schools. Since its introduction, as I understand it, 82% of applicants have been allocated their first choice of foundation school this year, up from 71% in 2023. NHS England has committed to a review of the system, which will commence later this year. Prescribing the allocation method in legislation would pre-empt that review and limit our ability to make future changes to ensure that the system remains fit for purpose. On that basis, I ask the shadow Minister to withdraw the new clause.”
“This is an area of some discussion, some of which we have heard, but we do not think it is necessary, where we are now, to put such a measure in primary legislation. The Medical Training (Prioritisation) Act establishes a statutory process for prioritising certain groups for training posts; it is not intended to change eligibility for training or the high standards that applicants must meet. Embedding some of these provisions in primary legislation would leave them inflexible to future workforce needs or standards of education and training. If Parliament wishes to change how recruitment processes themselves operate, that is best done outside legislation through established routes.”
“We also continue to work closely with the United Kingdom Acquired Brain Injury Forum, which is the umbrella organisation for brain injury charities, as the plan develops and moves towards publication.”
“I think all Committee members can recognise the importance of this issue. An acquired brain injury is a life-changing event for those affected, and for their families and loved ones. Its treatment involves co-ordination between primary, community, secondary and specialist care, and is personalised to the needs and life circumstances of the individual. Its effects are not limited to a person’s health: it can impact their journey through education, their employment prospects and so many other aspects of life. Because of that, they rightly expect coherent, joined-up support from across Government. Therefore, as we have discussed, we are working in partnership with eight other Government Departments, ABI charities, patient representatives and the NHS to develop an ABI action plan.”
“Let me give the shadow Minister the assurance that I believe she is seeking, as are others: a plan will be published as soon as possible. That plan is being developed with the breadth, rigor and pace that the issue demands and is receiving input from across the health system, as well as from other Departments responsible for supporting people with acquired brain injuries and sector-specific stakeholders and organisations. I hope that she will work with us to support the plan once it is published, in the interests of our constituents, who desperately require a new approach to ABI prevention, care and support. I ask her to withdraw the new clause.”
“The Government agree that there should be a plan, and the relevant Minister, to whom I will of course pass my hon. Friend’s comments, will be working on that. The question is whether the proposals in the new clause are best placed to ensure that any plan will be robust, sustainable and timely for the patients it is designed to serve. I say gently to the shadow Minister that I think they are not. First, setting an arbitrary 30-day timeline for publication risks causing either an unnecessary delay or a duplicate plan. Secondly, as I hope she will appreciate, we have engaged more widely than with just the three Departments named in the new clause. As I have said, as many as eight Departments are contributing, which reflects the wide range of areas that are impacted by brain injury.”
“I thank my hon. Friend for her work on and commitment to this issue, as was highlighted by the shadow Minister. I thank her also for her work on the APPG and with organisations such as Headway, to which we pay tribute for its work supporting patients and the public, and for her work with Members of Parliament and the Government on getting this right, which is legion. My hon. Friend has made similar comments in the House. The Minister responsible is continuing to work on the action plan, which I will talk about as we continue our consideration. The new clause raises the issues of prevention, identification, acute treatment, rehabilitation, long-term support, care planning, workforce capability, data and research, all of which are being considered in the work being done across the eight Departments.”
“Instead, it risks duplicating activity undertaken in recent years and diverting resources from the effective operation of the current system. For that reason, I hope the hon. Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham has the reassurance she needs and will not press her new clause to a vote. Question put, That the clause be read a Second time.”
“The UK is already a world leader in medicines reclassification, and the MHRA has reclassified more than 140 medicines over the last 30 years across varied therapeutic areas, including pain and inflammation, and continues to approve new reclassifications each year. The Government have taken proactive steps to support further reclassification. The MHRA has worked closely with industry partners in recent years to streamline and improve the reclassification application process to ensure that it is as efficient as possible for applicants, while maintaining high clinical standards. Creating an additional statutory reporting requirement would not improve the assessment of individual applications, and nor would it accelerate access to medicines for patients.”
“We are not setting a ceiling on what local areas can deliver, and that approach will drive progress more than dictating an overly prescriptive national approach would. For those reasons, we do not think it is helpful or appropriate to define the contents of a neighbourhood health plan in legislation. Moving to new clause 106, the Government recognise the important role that medicines reclassification can play in supporting self-care, improving access to treatment and helping patients manage their health more effectively, where it is safe for them to do so. There is already an established, evidence-based, proportionate framework for medicines reclassification in place, which is overseen by the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency.”
“The neighbourhood health framework is clear that ICBs and local authorities should work together through health and wellbeing boards to develop locally led neighbourhood plans to improve local population health and reduce health inequalities. The framework sets out what should be included in those plans, and is clear that neighbourhood health plans should be informed by local joint strategic needs assessments. If local areas think they would benefit from having a greater focus on self-care and health literacy, they are of course free to do so. However, that is for them to decide, based on their understanding of the local area’s needs. That permissive approach recognises that local leaders know their communities best and are therefore best placed to determine how to meet the population’s needs.”
“On new clause 105, I can assure the hon. Lady that the Government are committed to supporting self-care. Community pharmacies already play a vital role by offering accessible advice and, where appropriate, over-the-counter medicines for minor ailments. Through Pharmacy First, patients can walk into a pharmacy or be referred by NHS 111, a GP or A&E for expert support, including access to treatment under the seven clinical pathways. That helps people get the right care quickly while easing pressures on other parts of the NHS. However, we do not think that it is necessary to specify health literacy and self-care in neighbourhood health plans.”
“It will measure identification, access, quality, outcomes and inequalities. In the context of that ongoing work, the new clauses are not necessary. The MSF will give the House and the public a far more comprehensive picture of access to care than a single count could. It will also do so as part of improving the entire patient journey for people who need palliative and end-of-life care. Because this is a non-statutory approach, there will be more flexibility to adapt and change over time, rather than the system being required to follow requirements set out in primary legislation. I hope that that gives hon. Members the reassurance they need not to press their new clauses to a vote.”
“The MSF will support commissioning away from grants and block contracts to sustainable contracts based on integrated assessment of population need. It will consider contracting arrangements more widely, including a move away from short-term grant funding as part of the more comprehensive reform that the sector agrees it needs. We are also strengthening data and evidence. We commissioned the National Institute for Health and Care Research’s policy research unit to build the evidence base on palliative and end-of-life care, including on inequalities in access and the identification of need. We also expect the MSF to give us better insight into the performance of the system. Its metrics and accountability framework are being co-developed with people with lived experience and partner organisations from across the sector.”
“Both new clauses are likely to be answered by work already under way or included in the modern service framework. On funding, we recognise that the sector faces a serious challenge, and the Public Accounts Committee found in March that integrated care board funding ranges from 0% to 80% of an individual hospice’s income, and that commissioning relies on grants and block contracts. There are also wider funding issues, such as the reliance on historic grants. The Government are acting on those issues, and we have provided around £80 million over three years for children and young people’s hospices, or at least £26 million a year to 2028-29, adjusted for inflation. We have also provided a separate £125 million capital boost for both adult and children and young people’s hospices. That is the largest investment in hospices for a generation.”
“This is a really important subject, as everyone approaching the end of their life deserves dignified, compassionate and high-quality palliative and end-of-life care. Hospices provide extraordinary care, and hon. Members are right to highlight the issues the sector faces. That is why the Government are committed to developing a modern service framework for palliative care and end-of-life care. The final framework will be published in the autumn. New clause 108 would require integrated care boards to collect and report data on people who died while waiting for end-of-life care. It would also require the Department of Health and Social Care to publish that information nationally. New clause 109 would impose a single statutory three-year funding period on hospice funding.”
“Furthermore, the existing armed forces covenant duty already places a legal obligation on integrated care boards to give due regard to the unique obligations and sacrifices of the armed forces when carrying out their statutory duties.”
“On new clause 110, the Government are proud of the courage and dedication of our armed forces. We must all play our part in upholding the armed forces covenant, including for our armed forces veterans. The original covenant was under a Labour Government; I was proud, as part of my commissioning duties in Bristol, to work with the Royal British Legion to implement that more than a decade ago, and the work continues. I am therefore sympathetic to the intention to promote the health and wellbeing of our armed forces veterans, but I can assure hon. Members that the new clause is not necessary. The Government’s vision for veterans is clearly set out in the veterans strategy, which recognises veterans as one of the UK’s greatest strategic assets.”
“Members know, the single patient record will, wherever possible, draw on and connect relevant information in source records, such as GP IT systems and hospital electronic patient records, and allow the patient to see their record in the NHS app. That innovation further renders the measure unnecessary. For those reasons, and because the objectives are already being delivered through existing duties and ongoing reforms, I ask that the new clause is not pressed to a Division. Question put, That the clause be read a Second time.”
“There are established processes to allow for the safe transfer of relevant medical information to the service leaver and their new GP when that person leaves the armed forces. Service personnel receive a medical care summary, and are advised to register with an NHS GP and share the summary with their new GP. Existing data protection legislation also allows an individual to request their full record on discharge. We recognise that, in some instances, the process does not work as well as we would like, which is why the Defence Medical Command is already working towards greater interoperability with NHS systems and the electronic transfer of medical records from Defence Medical Command to NHS GPs. As hon.”
“Any annual report on compliance with the armed forces covenant duty produced by the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care would cover precisely the same subject matter and would be a duplication of information already publicly available. New clause 111 relates to providing service personnel with their medical records within one month of discharge. The Government agree entirely that it is important that a patient and their care providers have access to their medical records. Primary healthcare for serving members of the armed forces is the responsibility of the Ministry of Defence and is provided by the Defence Medical Command. As a result, such care would be outside the scope of the amendment.”
“On new clause 112, a requirement on the Secretary of State to publish an annual report on compliance with the armed forces covenant duty would be wholly unnecessary. Legislation already requires the Secretary of State to lay a covenant annual report before Parliament each year covering the effects of membership, or former membership, of the armed forces on service people in the fields of healthcare, education, housing and the operation of inquests. Under that legislation, the Ministry of Defence must obtain the views of relevant Government Departments, including the Department of Health and Social Care, when preparing the report.”
“Beyond that, ICBs have a range of inequalities-related duties relevant to the circumstances of veterans. They include a duty to have regard to the need to reduce inequalities between persons in accessing health services and in outcomes achieved from those services; a duty to have regard to the wider effect of decisions, including inequalities relating to health and wellbeing and to the benefits obtained from the provision of health services; and the public sector equality duty, with which all public sector bodies must comply. Therefore, there is already a range of legal duties on integrated care boards to promote the health and wellbeing of veterans as part of the community the ICB serves. It is precisely because those duties already apply that we do not consider it necessary to replicate them in relation to neighbourhood health plans.”
“I thank the hon. Lady for referencing that service in her constituency. I am not aware of the complications in the funding, but I will commit to getting back to her to understand that better, and I will see what the responses are from the commissioning function—I suspect it is a specialised one that falls between many different people. I am sure it has a long history, but I am afraid I am not directly aware of it, but I commit to getting a satisfactory response to her. The covenant duty is underpinned by two core principles: first, that disadvantages arising from membership of the armed forces community should, where possible, be removed; and secondly, that special provision may be appropriate for those who have given the most, such as the injured and bereaved.”
“I thank the hon. Members for Farnham and Bordon and for Sleaford and North Hykeham for their kind comments and good wishes. I also thank members on both sides of the Committee for their contributions over the past few weeks. Despite the heat, I, too, have enjoyed our discussions. I think that we have given the Bill a very good airing and there has been constructive engagement and scrutiny. They have given us lots of food for thought, which we have taken careful note of, regardless of whether we have taken up the amendments.”
“Friend the Member for Ealing Central and Acton (Dr Huq) and the right hon. and learned Member for Kenilworth and Southam (Sir Jeremy Wright), for guiding this Committee—[Hon. Members: “Hear, hear.”] I also thank the Clerks for everything that they have done behind the scenes. This is the first Bill that I have taken through a Public Bill Committee, and the work really is quite legion. The Clerks’ expertise is second to none and a delight to see closely. Equally, I thank the officials in the Department of Health and Social Care and the lawyers, some of whom have worked on several Committees over the years. Again, I have learned so much from them and their expertise. It is a dedicated team, and their hard work and expertise on Bills over many years is good to see. I thank them for their support in making this Bill go forward.”
“Under clause 63, as the Committee has heard, the Care Quality Commission will be able to take action to bring proceedings against a health and social care provider for a serious breach of regulations. However, that provision will apply only to new offences. To ensure that we can act to prevent cases falling through the gaps, we are committed to bringing in the measure as soon as possible after Royal Assent, while respecting the routine two-month window, as is set out in the Bill. Clause 72 is self-explanatory and provides that, once passed, the Bill may be cited as the Health Act 2026. I commend the clauses to the Committee. Before I conclude, I put on record my thanks to you, Ms Lewell, and to the right hon. Member for Herne Bay and Sandwich (Sir Roger Gale), my hon.”
“Amendments to other legislation made by this Bill will have the same territorial extent as the legislation that will have been amended. Clause 71 sets out when provisions in the Bill will come into force once it has received Royal Assent. As is usual, the clause provides the Secretary of State with the power to commence the majority of the Bill’s clauses on a date to be set out in regulations. It may also be appropriate to bring different provisions in the Bill into force at different times, and the powers in clause 71 will allow for that. The powers will also enable the Secretary of State to make saving or transitional provision in connection with the coming into force of any provision, which will enable the commencement of the Bill to operate smoothly and efficiently.”
“She said that she will not press amendment 77 to a vote, but I hope that what I have said provides her with the reassurance she was seeking. Clause 69 is a standard clause that appears in Bills that provide for the expenditure of public money. It simply provides for any expenditure incurred by the Secretary of State as a result of changes made under the Act, once it has received Royal Assent, to be paid out of money provided by Parliament. Clause 70 sets out the territorial extent of the Bill. While most of its provisions extend only to England and Wales, some are UK-wide. The clauses in the Bill largely apply to England only, and in previous sittings we debated the consequences for Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland, and any issues relating to devolution, as and when they have arisen.”
“However, where we are introducing new regulation-making powers, we have carefully considered what parliamentary scrutiny arrangements should apply. For example, any regulations that are made to facilitate the single patient record will be subject to the affirmative procedure, because we understand the importance of debating that issue in both Houses. Furthermore, any statutory instruments made under clause 68 that amend, repeal or revoke provisions made by primary legislation will be subject to the affirmative procedure and will need to be debated and passed by both Houses. I hope that the hon. Member for North Shropshire agrees that a blanket requirement for the affirmative procedure would be disproportionate.”
“I will respond to the hon. Gentleman in a moment, but first I will address clauses 68 to 72, as well as amendment 77, which was tabled by the hon. Member for North Shropshire. Clause 68 will allow the Secretary of State, by regulations, to make provision that is consequential on this Bill. Amendment 77 would amend that provision. The Government recognise the importance of parliamentary scrutiny of the significant changes proposed in the Bill. While the Bill contains some new regulation-making powers, the majority are existing powers that have been amended in the light of the abolition of NHS England. They will therefore be uncontroversial and consequential, so we consider it proportionate for the same parliamentary scrutiny arrangements to continue to apply in respect of those powers.”
“I thank the hon. Member for her kind comments. As the former Minister, the right hon. Member for Melton and Syston, recognised, I have been on the other side when considering a previous Bill. Opposition is hard work—the process is quite hard work on this side—and I commend Opposition Members for conducting that important scrutiny. I thank Members for their contributions and I think the Bill is stronger for those efforts.”
“The new clause would mean that all health data collections and data-sharing initiatives would have to be preceded by public consultation. That would capture any of the essential collections that NHS England undertakes, and indeed any collection by NHS organisations, not to mention the use of that data. The burden would be considerable, with very real consequences for the ability of the NHS to use that data to improve outcomes for patients. Likewise, I cannot see how requiring all health data to be held anonymously and accessed only through a trusted, secure research environment would be compatible with delivering direct care to a patient or using confidential patient information for planning and commissioning services or research. It seems that the new clause would prevent such uses. For those reasons, I ask the hon.”
“Once the functions of NHS England have transferred to the Secretary of State, the Secretary of State must have regard to the need to respect and promote the privacy of recipients of health services and of adult social care in England, which is in addition to the requirements already set out in UK GDPR. The Secretary of State will be able to issue guidance to the health and care sector relating to the processing of information to which NHS bodies must have regard. The Secretary of State will be under a duty to have regard to guidance given by the Health Research Authority on the disclosure of confidential information. The proposed trust functions would also encroach significantly on the operational role intended for the health data research service, and would place cumbersome constraints on vital data collecting and sharing within the NHS.”
“It is good to see you in the Chair, Dr Huq. I am grateful to the hon. Member for North Shropshire for tabling this new clause. I am sympathetic to its intentions: the security of data, the transparency of use and even realising the value of data. Its principles are in the interests of the public and the NHS, but we do not consider it necessary to achieve our aims. It would impose onerous operational requirements and could have a damaging impact on the ability of the NHS to function. There is also a significant overlap with the role of the independent national guardian and potentially that of the information commissioner.”
“The proposed new clause risks creating some significant ambiguity around accountability and risk, constraining rather than enhancing the independence of directors of public health, which I am sure is not the intention of the hon. Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham or of the Committee. I hope I can offer reassurance to the hon. Member and indeed to the Committee that we are proud of our strong and coherent public health system, that this Bill does not alter its importance and that we will continue to champion the role of directors of public health and ensure clarity in the new architecture. I ask that the new clause be withdrawn.”
“Directors of public health are also required to be members of health and wellbeing boards, which will be the central mechanism for partnership working between local authorities and ICBs in the new neighbourhood health system. As such, directors of public health will be well placed to help to shape ICB system-wide plans and strategies on public health issues going forward, something that we discussed earlier in the Committee. There is a statutory duty on ICBs to obtain appropriate and expert public health advice, and a legal duty on local authorities in turn, carried out by the director of public health and their team, to provide public health advice to ICBs. Beyond those requirements, the NHS, including ICBs, is of course free to employ its own senior public health professionals.”
“Although they are employed by local authorities and appointed jointly with the Secretary of State, their role is designed to bridge local government and the NHS. They are also required to provide objective, evidence-based advice, without political interference, and they are expected to be suitably qualified and regulated public health specialists who take a population-wide perspective to health outcomes and health inequalities. At the heart of their role is their statutory responsibility to prepare an annual report on the health of their local population. That crucial document underpins the plans of health and wellbeing boards and, through them, the ICBs.”
“I absolutely agree that public health expertise is essential for ICBs to commission effectively and we have set out how they will access that; the basis for all this is of course the joint strategic needs assessment. However, I do not believe that it is necessary to require an ICB to appoint a lead director for public health in order to have access to such advice. On new clause 24, as the Committee is aware, local authority directors of public health are advocates for the health of their population. They have a professional leadership role across the three domains of public health: health improvement, health protection and healthcare public health. Their work spans organisational boundaries.”
“Local authorities already employ a director of public health and we expect ICBs to work collaboratively with their local authority partners and not to duplicate their work. NHS England recently published the strategic commissioning framework and guidance for ICBs on strengthening the public health advice, both of which are clear that ICBs should work with local public health teams and stakeholders to draw upon their expertise to ensure a strong evidence base for commissioning decisions. As the responsibilities of ICBs for commissioning NHS public health services grow, we expect them to continue to draw on the skills and expertise of local authority directors of public health, as well as other specialist public health expertise, including screening and immunisation leads, and the UK Health Security Agency.”
“Further to that point, I absolutely want to assure my hon. Friend the Member for Worthing West, who is not a member of this Committee, and indeed the members of this Committee that the Government fully appreciate the important role of public health professionals. They bring critical expertise in population health intelligence, epidemiology and community co-design, and those capabilities are integral to the role of ICBs as strategic commissioners. On new clause 11, there is already a statutory duty on ICBs to seek advice, and a statutory duty on local authorities to provide public health advice to ICBs. However, that does not mean that ICBs should be required to employ a director of public health directly.”
“As the hon. Member was not here at the time, perhaps it eludes his memory, I remind him that it was a coalition Government agreement to move forward with Dilnot, which had cross-party support. As soon as the coalition finished in 2015 and the Conservative party had dumped their friends in the Liberal Democrats, almost immediately after that election, it also dumped all pretence around the Care Act 2014 provisions at the time. We are where we are. I just wanted to help his memory.”
“To correct the shadow Minister, I do not think my hon. Friend the Member for Bury St Edmunds and Stowmarket said that; he said the waiting lists have gone up. To be clear, in case her memory eludes her again, they were at 4 million before the pandemic and the Conservative party—her party, whose manifesto she stood on—did not meet a single target since before 2015. That is important for people to remember: 4 million people were on waiting lists before the pandemic started. The NHS went into crisis under the Conservatives’ leadership. Even if the hon. Member for Isle of Wight East thinks it is tedious to remind them of their record, no member of the public thinks it is tedious; they will never be forgiven for that record.”
“That is why, through the urgent and emergency care plan in 2025-26, we are investing more than £450 million to expand urgent and emergency care capacity, including new same-day emergency care services, urgent treatment centres, additional mental health crisis provision and nearly 1,000 replacement ambulances. Alongside that, we are implementing new clinical standards and improving patient flow across hospitals, all to reduce the number of patients waiting more than 12 hours.”