Carolyn Harris
MP for Neath and Swansea East · Labour · United Kingdom
“I can do this. Can I thank my right hon. and learned, and very dear, Friend for everything he has given to our party and our country? There were few who believed we could make the changes needed to bring in a Labour Government after the general election of 2019, when he became leader.”
“Thank you for your point of order and for notifying me of it in advance, but decisions relating to the publication of e-petitions and the scheduling of e-petition debates properly sit with the Petitions Committee.”
“Whether something said is a breach of order depends on the context…Any abusive or insulting language used in debate will be required to be withdrawn immediately.” I remind members of the public that they are here to observe proceedings, not to participate or comment.”
“I remind hon. Members that “Rules of behaviour and courtesies in the House of Commons” notes: “The privilege of freedom of speech in debate…allows us to conduct our debates without fear of outside interference.”
“I wish she had had the opportunity to fight those causes with us, because her voice would have been one well worth listening to. Jo always spoke with real conviction about the things that mattered most, and she cared immensely about those who felt targeted, isolated or alone.”
“Voices from every party spoke of how Jo was the very best of us, how her values were shared by us all and how important it was that we all lived by her words. Jo truly believed what she said in her iconic maiden speech: that in our diverse communities, right across the country, we have far more in common than the things that divide us.”
The complete record
Every one of 608 lines we hold for Carolyn Harris, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 3 of 13.
“Order. Before we continue with the debate, can I bring to everyone’s attention that guests in the Gallery are not permitted to contribute in any way to it? Any Member who speaks needs to stay for the wind-ups. We will have a tight time limit of six minutes per speech. Can I please encourage colleagues to make short interventions? Otherwise, some people will not be able to speak. I call Yasmin Qureshi.”
“Order. As Members can see, the debate is very oversubscribed. I will set a time limit of four minutes, but if interventions continue as they have, I anticipate that it will be reduced. If Members are on my call list, they need to be at a seat. I ask Members who have made an intervention and who are not down to speak to make way for Members who are waiting to speak. I also remind Members taking interventions that, as generous as it may be to the person they allow to speak, it means that Members at the bottom of the call list will not have an opportunity to speak. I leave that to your judgment.”
“The Budget commitment of £80 million for the Tata transition board was indeed welcome, but Thrive, the domestic abuse organisation in Neath and Port Talbot, is concerned that since the Tata announcement there has been a rise both in reported incidents of domestic violence and in demand for prevention services for perpetrators. Can the Secretary of State provide assurances that the transition board will look at this as a priority funded project?”
“Q3. Today it is Question 3 but, who knows, next week I could be No. 1 in the charts, as the first MP this year to bring out a Christmas single. Will the Prime Minister join me in thanking my musical collaborator, the hugely talented Mal Pope, and everyone involved with this year’s “Everyone Deserves” hamper campaign, which will deliver festive food to 1,500 homes across five constituencies in south Wales? Like our song says, “There’s a reason for the season and everyone deserves a Christmas.””
“The petition therefore requests “that the House of Commons urges the Government to outlaw pimping websites and paying for sex, and provide support, not sanctions, to victims of sexual exploitation.” Following is the full text of the petition: [ The petition of residents of the constituency of Neath and Swansea East, Declares that demand from the minority of men who pay for sex is driving the prostitution and sex trafficking trade, and this sexual exploitation is being facilitated by pimping websites that operate with impunity. The petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons urges the Government to outlaw pimping websites and paying for sex, and provide support, not sanctions, to victims of sexual exploitation. And the petitioners remain, etc. ] [P003026]”
“I rise on the 10th day of the UN’s 16 days of activism against gender-based violence to present a petition on commercial sexual exploitation on behalf of my constituents in Neath and Swansea East. Pimping websites are used by traffickers to advertise and facilitate the sexual exploitation of women. Our laws against pimping have failed to keep pace with technological change, and such websites are now readily accessible and play a key role in enabling sex trafficking in this country. Victims of trafficking and exploitation are some of the most vulnerable in our society, and it is our duty to protect them.”
“I will call Ashley Dalton to move the motion and then I will call the Minister to respond. There will not be an opportunity for the Member in charge to wind up, as is the convention for 30-minute debates.”
“Before I call the hon. Member for Hexham to move the motion, I inform Members that the parliamentary digital communications team will be conducting secondary filming during the debate.”
“Unlike the previous Government, this Government are fully committed to enabling the £800 million transition fund to support former steelworkers. I recently visited the steelworkers’ support centre in Port Talbot, in the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for Aberafan Maesteg (Stephen Kinnock). In its opening four weeks, it has helped almost 600 individuals, many of whom will be from Neath and Swansea East. Will the Secretary of State join me in thanking Community union and the other organisations that have set up the centre, and provide an update on the transition fund?”
“I will call Sarah Bool to move the motion, and then call the Minister to respond. There will not be an opportunity for the Member in charge to wind up, as is the convention.”
“Q10. Last Friday was International Menopause Day and the Government announced Mariella Frostrup as the new menopause employment ambassador. Mariella will be working across Whitehall to ensure every Department recognises the need to support women through their menopausal years. Hopefully, the Deputy Prime Minister will join me in celebrating that appointment, and confirm that this Government will do all they can to keep menopausal women happy, healthy and wonderful.”
“I will call Peter Dowd to move the motion and the Minister to respond. There will not be an opportunity for the Member in charge to wind up, as is the convention for 30-minute debates.”
“Order. I intend to call the Front-Bench speakers at 5.8 pm. All Members should take that into consideration and keep their remarks under five minutes.”
“I remind Members that anyone wishing to speak needs to bob. I have to impose a four-minute time limit from the outset, as this debate is oversubscribed. You can all sit down until I have finished. I call Anna Sabine.”
“Resolven, a small community in my constituency with a massive heart, is today filled with pride for Dan Jervis, part of the GB swim team. Will the Leader of the House join me in congratulating not just Dan, but all our GB contestants at the Paris Olympics? They fill us with pride and joy, so will she join me in congratulating them all?”
“During their free NHS 40-plus health checks, women are assessed for conditions that may affect them as they grow older, but menopause is not included. To include it would be cost-neutral and would not only help millions of women to recognise the symptoms, but prevent needless GP appointments when those symptoms start to develop. Along with Menopause Mandate, I have been campaigning tirelessly on this issue. Will the Secretary of State please look into it as a matter of urgency?”
“Does my hon. Friend agree that under the United Nations protocol on trafficking, a victim does not need to have travelled in a vehicle in order for a trafficking offence to have been committed, yet under the UK’s Modern Slavery Act 2015, they do? This means that exploiters who are not actually moving a victim in a vehicle from one place to another are not being prosecuted as traffickers. It would make a huge difference if there were parity between the two pieces of legislation, to make sure that trafficking is justly prosecuted.”
“How wonderful it is to see you back in your rightful place, Mr Speaker. Last weekend, Rhian Thomas from Catwg primary school in Cadoxton, in my new constituency of Neath and Swansea East, won the primary school teacher of the year award. Rhian won the award for all she has done to create engaging learning experiences at Catwg primary school for pupils and the wider community. Will the Leader of the House join me in congratulating Rhian, the school, and all teachers everywhere on everything they do for our children and young people?”
“It is vital that we send a message to all traffickers that there are no get-out clauses for that offence, and that we say: “If you trade in human beings, if you profit from women being raped and abused, the absence of a car journey or a flight should not exempt you from punishment.” New clause 29 would bring the UK definition of human trafficking in line with international standards and remove the opportunity for perpetrators of such crime to play the system. That, too, was a recommendation of the Home Affairs Committee. Again, I urge the Government to support the new clauses.”
“The United Nations protocol on trafficking, the Palermo protocol, does not require victims to have been physically transported from one place to another for an activity to be recognised as trafficking, but our Modern Slavery Act does. Essentially, that means that an exploiter who forces a woman into prostitution, advertises her on a pimping website, controls how many men she has to have sex with each day, and takes her money from her could get a substantially lower penalty simply by virtue of not physically having transported her. The maximum penalty for controlling prostitution for gain is seven years’ imprisonment. For trafficking, it is life.”
“I am delighted to have cross-party support for the new clause, including from the Chair of the Select Committee, my right hon. Friend the Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Dame Diana Johnson); the co-chair of the all-party parliamentary group on commercial sexual exploitation, the hon. Member for Inverclyde (Ronnie Cowan); the right hon. Member for Chingford and Woodford Green (Sir Iain Duncan Smith); and my hon. Friend the Member for Rotherham (Sarah Champion). It is an absolute scandal that pimping websites are allowed to operate in plain sight. I urge the Government to support my new clause. New clause 29 is also designed to combat human trafficking. The definition of “human trafficking” in the Modern Slavery Act 2015 is out of line with the internationally agreed definition, and traffickers are benefiting from that.”
“The Committee also heard of a trafficking gang that spent £25,000 advertising a group of young Romanian women. Rather than alerting the authorities, the website owners allocated them an account manager to help them to spend more money, showing a total disregard for the women’s welfare. It is quite clear that these pimping websites are now a key component of the business model for sex trafficking, and they must be stopped. The provisions in the Online Safety Act 2023 do not close the legislative gap that allows online pimping. That is why the Home Affairs Committee recommended a new offence of enabling or profiting from the prostitution of others, which I have tabled as new clause 8. New clause 8 would make it illegal to advertise another person for prostitution, regardless of whether it takes place online or offline.”
“That represents a win for the website owners, some of whom are generating millions of pounds in profit every year, and for sex traffickers, who can easily and quickly advertise people for prostitution and connect with a wide customer base across the UK, but certainly not for the victims—the people who have been advertised and sold for sex and who have no legal protection from their perpetrators. As a member of the Home Affairs Committee, I have heard harrowing evidence on the dangers of these sites. Shockingly, one pimping website admitted to the Committee that it allows single individuals to advertise multiple women for prostitution at the same time on its site, as well as allowing the same contact number to be used across multiple different adverts. Those are both red flags for sex trafficking.”
“Hon. Members may be shocked to learn that some forms of pimping are still legal in this country. One of the most significant examples is pimping websites, which are dedicated to advertising people for prostitution. They function like online brothels, making it as easy to order a woman to sexually exploit as it is to order a takeaway. Despite it being an offence to place a prostitution advert on land, for example in a phone box, our laws have failed to keep up with technology, meaning that those same adverts can be placed legally, for a fee, on pimping websites.”
“I add my congratulations to the stepmother of the hon. Member for North Norfolk (Duncan Baker). Question put and agreed to. Resolved, That this House has considered the bicentenary of the RNLI.”
“With tens of thousands of veterans across the UK forced to rely on universal credit to get by, what is the Minister doing to help veterans in Swansea East and right across the country who are in receipt of universal credit to cope with the increased cost of living caused by this Government’s economic failings?”
“It contained, among other things: a fan “for hot sweats”; tissues for “if you’re feeling a bit emotional”; a paperclip “to help you keep it all together”; a jelly baby “in case you feel like biting someone’s head off”; and a pencil “to write down things you might forget.” That is hardly the kind of language we should use about anyone, let alone women who are perimenopausal or menopausal. It is insulting, and it belittles symptoms that are so debilitating for many. I am sure it was done with the best intention and was perhaps meant to bring a bit of humour to the situation, but the choice of language is so important. I know from the communications I have received that it was deeply offensive, not only to a lot of women but to men, too. People working for the company were disappointed that this was Avanti’s response.”
“Bring in affordability checks for all the” stuff—I have used another word instead of theirs— “you must eat to make you that fat.” Another wrote: “F these blue hair fat ugly freaks.” And another: “Shouldn’t this buffoon be serving jelly and custard to five year olds or on lolly pop duty?” As a former dinner lady, I do not find that at all insulting. That is just a snapshot of the disrespectful, misogynistic rhetoric that these bullies—that is what they are—feel that they are entitled to post, just because we are MPs. I agree that the language we use in this place is important, but there is a bigger issue that needs to be addressed. Members would be disappointed if I did not talk about the menopause. Earlier this month, Avanti showcased its menopause toolkit for staff.”
“It saddens me that it is generally nothing to do with my politics or the causes that I champion; it is always because of my gender or my appearance—my hair colour, my choice of outfits, my size, or my glasses. Just this week, following a debate in Westminster Hall, I was subject to some very interesting abuse from people who purport to disagree with my stance on an issue. However, their comments on X, formerly known as Twitter, had little to do with what I said. To give a flavour: “I wouldn't let that thing decide what boxer shorts I was wearing in the morning.” That says more about them than me, I think. “It is of my opinion that you are obese. See a doctor immediately.”
“I also thank the right hon. Member for Basingstoke (Dame Maria Miller) for securing today’s debate. It is always an honour to be here to mark International Women’s Day. Today’s debate calls for respectful language to be used in this place and in the upcoming general election, as the public look to us for leadership and example. It is crucial that we respect each other and those who elected us to be their representative. I reflect on my nine years of serving the people of Swansea East in Parliament, and I am confident that I have built mutually respectful relationships both across the House and throughout the communities that I work with. Like many colleagues, I have had my fair share of abuse, particularly online.”
“I am even more grateful to Eastwood Park’s governor, Zoë Short, and her team—Abbie Garrett and Alison Rivers—not only for trusting us to share the message with the women, but for being so proactive in supporting them.”
“Menopause has over 40 symptoms, ranging from anxiety and brain fog to urinary tract infection and vaginal dryness. Many women struggle to navigate this time of their life, and they suffer as a result. Imagine not being able to pop out for fresh air during a hot flush; having night sweats while sleeping on a plastic mattress; or suffering crippling anxiety while locked up alone. That is the reality for women in prison. The difference I saw in the women between the Monday and the Friday was mind-blowing. We delivered a message that made a difference. I am hugely grateful to Davina McCall, Hazel Hayden and the Bristol menopause clinic, Kate Rowe-Ham, Lavina Mehta, Michelle Griffith Robinson and Kate Muir, who came with me to do this work.”
“I agree. Before I was elected, my husband always told me that I would need to have a thick skin. Well, it has gone past having a thick skin. At the end of the day, I am a human being. People would not speak to a person on the street like that, so why should I or anyone else have to experience it online? It is not banter; it is degrading. My mission is to ensure that our conversations and the language we use normalises the menopause in communities locally, nationally and even globally. I have had some exciting opportunities to do this, but none more exciting than the opportunity I had last week to join a team of wonderful friends and colleagues, with good knowledge and expertise, in going to Eastwood Park women’s prison in the constituency of the hon. Member for Thornbury and Yate (Luke Hall).”
“I totally agree. The menopause is not a disability and should not be regarded as such, but any focus on it—and the EHRC brought focus to the menopause —makes a huge difference to the messaging, how women feel and how employers take notice of what they should be doing. I will cut my remarks short, as I have taken up more than enough time. As we look to the general election, can we reflect on how we speak, and the choices we make when we address others? Respect earns respect in this place, in our communities, in the country and beyond.”
“I am always proud of people’s willingness to help each other, especially those who may need a little extra support. We are a nation who wear our hearts on our sleeves— I do so more than most, probably. From the hillside to the vales, we thrive on welcoming people. There will always be a welcome for people who come to our home in Wales.”
“Last Christmas, for example, we stretched even further, delivering hampers to Swansea East, Swansea West, Neath, Aberavon, Blaenau Gwent and the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney (Gerald Jones). I hope one day to be able to say, “There are fewer people needing help this year,” and that Everyone Deserves has had fewer referrals, but I fear that may be a while away. Until then, it is an honour to provide support. That support may be provided directly into someone’s home, involve funding a play session for Swansea’s National Autistic Society or Hands Up For Downs, or even go to holding a coffee morning for the Swansea City Disabled Supporters’ Association, which tomorrow, on St David’s Day, launches the “Everyone Deserves a Cuppa” sessions.”
“Pentrehafod School—I remember its headmaster being born, which is rather scary—helped to launch the Christmas appeal, did bucket collections at the football, and is hosting us again this Christmas, so that we have space to pack the hampers. My very dear friend Mal Pope went one better this year and actually wrote a brand new Christmas song to raise funds for us. I have known Mal literally all my life. I am so proud of him, because he celebrates 50 years in showbusiness this year, and I am so grateful for his unwavering support. There are so many more people whom I could mention, because this really is a whole community effort. In fact, it has spread way out of my community.”
“Indeed, Everyone Deserves saw a rise in the number of pensioners seeking help last Christmas. I will not talk about every person who helped with the campaign, because there are genuinely too many, but I must mention my local heroes, who show their support time and again. The Swans and the Ospreys, who are legends on the pitch—my hon. Friend the Member for Gower (Tonia Antoniazzi) might disagree—are always there, unloading vans, packing boxes and delivering hampers. The wonderful ladies of the Valley Rock Voices choir, who have the voices of angels and hearts of gold, raise money throughout the year, week in and week out, for Everyone Deserves, and even throw impromptu concerts while packing hampers to keep everyone entertained.”
“Everyone Deserves a Christmas 2023 shattered previous records, not just in the number of families that we supported, but in the number of people who answered the call to turn up and help. It is always bittersweet talking about that, because although I am immensely grateful for all the support, and proud of what we achieve, it saddens me that the demand is so high, and that so many families in our communities are struggling to make ends meet. The cost of living in recent years has crippled households in Swansea and right across Wales. It is not only families struggling during the school holidays; last month, we saw the shocking results of a Bevan Foundation study on pensioner poverty in Wales, which found that one in 10 pensioners is skipping meals, and one in five is going without heating.”
“I thank the right hon. Member for Preseli Pembrokeshire (Stephen Crabb) for securing today’s Welsh affairs debate ahead of St David’s day tomorrow. Like others who have spoken and will speak, I am very proud to be Welsh. I am proud of my country, my family, and the community that I represent, which is steeped in true Welsh values. I see them every day—people supporting each other and helping their neighbours, working collectively to tackle the issues affecting our communities. For me, that is most evident during the Everyone Deserves campaign, which has become an institution, not just in Swansea East but in communities across Wales, during the Easter, summer and Christmas school holidays.”
“I will call Dr Kieran Mullan to move the motion and then the Minister to respond. As is the convention for 30-minute debates, there will not be an opportunity for the Member in charge to wind up.”
“Order. As hon. Members can see, the debate is oversubscribed and there will therefore be a two-minute time limit. I remind colleagues of two things: if they wish to speak, they need to bob; and any interventions taken will cause other colleagues to lose time further on in the debate.”
“Suggesting that someone gripped by addiction would be able to make rational decisions on what is affordable is naive. Nobody would even contemplate that for any other addiction. The logical way forward would be to proactively introduce affordability checks on anyone gambling larger sums.”
“In its patterns of play research, the Gambling Commission identified that the most profitable 1% of accounts make up 70.4% of the gross gambling yield, echoing previous research from the University of Liverpool. The gambling industry relies on a hugely disproportionate percentage of its profits coming from those affected by gambling addiction, who are subsequently harmed by unaffordable losses. Historically, the industry has recognised the need for responsible gambling and ensuring that customers spend within their means. In 2018—that seems a life-time ago—the Senet Group, the industry standards body that was later absorbed into the Betting and Gaming Council, set out three steps that responsible gamblers should adhere to: only gamble what you can afford, set limits and do not chase losses.”
“The publication of the long overdue gambling White Paper last April was therefore widely welcomed by the all-party parliamentary group on gambling related harm, which I chair, as well as by a growing community of organisations, charities, academics and clinicians, all intent on reducing gambling harm, protecting the vulnerable and saving lives. While concerns remain about the consultation times on the proposals in the White Paper and how long it will subsequently take us to get where we need to be, what is important today is that we lay out why the changes are so critical—specifically, the positive impact that affordability checks will have in reducing harm and saving lives.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Edward. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Neath (Christina Rees) on leading this petition debate. It is an honour to speak about a topic that I am truly passionate about: reducing gambling harm and protecting the most vulnerable. According to the Gambling Commission, 22.5 million people in this country gamble, which equates to about 44% of the adult population. The overwhelming majority do so without any issue, but not everyone. When it comes to those for whom gambling is an addiction, the Gambling Commission and the Government have a duty to act responsibly and protect them from harm.”
“Surely that is in the interest of the industry, which currently has a reputation for allowing those unable to control their gambling to gamble far in excess of what they can afford to spend.”
“Research suggests that only 0.3% of account holders would be subject to the level of checks that would require them to hand over any additional financial information. However, it seems that the smaller number of enhanced checks that would require consent on the part of the individual are being used as a scaremongering tactic to turn the debate on affordability into a controversial topic. Given that those checks have such a minimal impact, it is difficult to see why they have been contested so vehemently. We know that the industry has stirred up the controversy by exaggerating the levels of intrusion and suggesting that the checks would drive gamblers to the black market. That loses sight of the whole point of the checks, which is to protect gamblers from harm by ensuring that they are spending within their means.”
“It is where people—incredibly vulnerable people—can spend money they just do not have, with no intervention, with no contact with anyone that might notice a problem, and, until last week’s announcement, without limits. Online is causing harm at rates far in excess of any land-based venue, and it is important that we keep that in mind. The APPG’s focus has always been on that, and we have continually called for the likes of horseracing tracks and bingo halls to be considered separately in legislation. For the 3% of affected online gambling accounts, the vast majority of checks would be frictionless. The Gambling Commission has already advocated for the focus of checks to be on publicly available data.”
“If anything, the figures highlight the fact that the proposed thresholds are far too high and could be set at a lower level. To be clear, the initial background checks of financial vulnerability would be frictionless, using publicly available information such as credit reference data alongside negative indicators such as county court judgments and insolvency checks. The enhanced checks would initially use open banking, with more intrusive checks only being triggered further down the line. It must also be put into perspective that the enhanced checks would be narrowly targeted to around 3% of the online gambling accounts affected. I can say at this point that it is the online accounts that are key. Online is where the most harm is taking place.”