Alex Norris
MP for Nottingham North and Kimberley · Labour (Co-op) · United Kingdom
“I am grateful for the Liberal Democrat spokesperson’s contribution. As I hope she heard me say, I do accept that the impact of our taking the summer to carve more offences out of this regime in a way that is safe and means we have a resilient prison estate has had an impact on victims and survivors and on their families, as they wait with…”
“Of course, things do come in and out of the estate, including because of fire damage; I would not underestimate the importance of contamination either. Nevertheless, there will of course be significant places added in this Parliament and in our programme to 2031. The hon. Gentleman also asks about the chance to scrutinise the data.”
“To help solve the crisis in adult prisons, I have decided to temporarily hold some 18-year-olds in our youth estate for longer. My job is to balance the sustainability of our prisons with public protection, the rights of victims and public confidence in the justice system.”
“More than 2,000 people are still trapped by indeterminate imprisonment for public protection, or IPP, sentences. They were rightly abolished a decade ago, but offenders are still locked up for far longer than envisaged, often for crimes that, if committed today, would see them spend much less time in jail.”
“I recognise that it has created uncertainty and I apologise to victims, but I hope they understand that it was done with noble purpose. We must now use the time available to make sure that victims get the right support, particularly when it comes to shaping restrictions on offenders if they do come out. The hon. Gentleman mentions plans.”
“We have increased removals by 41% compared with the last two years of the previous Tory Government, and we have changed the law to expand the early removal scheme. Now we will go further.”
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“As the Minister with responsibility for building safety, I often say that in my area, and across Government more generally, we are trying to serve twin moral imperatives. The first is to make sure that people have a home. I think every day of the 6,000 children in bed-and-breakfast accommodation and the 180,000 children in temporary accommodation the previous night. We have to make sure that people have homes, but we also have to ensure that they are good homes and that, exactly as my hon. Friend says, we are not setting up people to fail. We have to make sure those homes are warm and dry, safe from fire and, in this case, do not come with overheads or lower-quality infrastructure that make owning, renting or living in that home a nightmare and a battle.”
“I am also grateful to him for raising these issues in his ten-minute rule Bill, which is a good way for Members of Parliament to raise issues with the Government and to hear our policy ideas. I make it clear that we support the underlying goals of his Bill, which aligns very nicely with our manifesto commitment to end the injustice of fleecehold estates. It is important to recognise that, yes, this is an issue for my hon. Friend’s constituents, but we are also seeing it across the country. From Ebbsfleet up to Stockton and, in the middle, South Derbyshire—so good that it is nearly Nottingham—residents are facing these growing challenges, and we must be there to support them.”
“It is a pleasure to serve with you in the Chair, Ms Butler. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Hitchin (Alistair Strathern) on securing this important debate, which is characteristic of the type of issues that he champions. I do not think this issue gets nearly enough coverage, and it is great that we have the opportunity to debate it this morning. It is one of those issues that, exactly as he says, turns dreams into nightmares and can ruin people’s lives or make people’s lives just that bit harder. It is exactly the sort of issue that he is passionate about and that he always uses his platform to raise, and I am grateful that he has. I am also grateful for other colleagues’ contributions. I am grateful not just for my hon. Friend’s excellent diagnosis of the problem, but for charitably offering solutions to the Government.”
“The most important tribute, though, is to the community, because for eight long years they have campaigned and fought for truth, justice and change. The Deputy Prime Minister and I are resolute in listening to them. We want to ensure that the bereaved, survivors, next of kin and resident voices are heard, including at the heart of Government. We will continue to work until the lessons from the Grenfell Tower fire have changed the system that led to that tragedy.”
“I am grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Kensington and Bayswater (Joe Powell) for securing this opportunity to mark this weekend’s eighth anniversary of the tragedy at Grenfell Tower and the loss of 72 innocent lives, including, as we have heard, 18 children. Time has not diminished the horror, the pain or the impact of that day—the lives of families and the community changed forever. My hon. Friend has raised an awful lot of important points, and I hope to be able to cover them all. They are in keeping with his outstanding advocacy for his community. In the building safety space, there is no Member I speak to more than him; we will be together again tomorrow. I want to put it on the record that he pushes and presses me, quite rightly, in the interests of his community, day in, day out.”
“Friend the Member for Kensington and Bayswater that the legacy must be system change. I agree with what my hon. Friend the Member for Hammersmith and Chiswick (Andy Slaughter) says about it being a long time, and I know from speaking to the bereaved and survivors that they are frustrated that some of the recommendations will take time. The commitment I will make from this Dispatch Box is that nothing will take a day longer than it has to take. We are working with urgency and intent, and we will be very transparent as we do.”
“Dishonest practices were propagated. The Prime Minister has apologised on behalf of the British state for its part in the failures that led to entirely avoidable deaths. I want to repeat the Prime Minister’s words: it should never have happened. We published our response to the inquiry in February. We accepted the findings and committed to delivering on all 58 recommendations and to going further through a broader approach to reform, including with regard to construction products. Last month we published our progress report on delivery, and we will continue to report on a quarterly basis. The next progress report in September will be a very big one, because we will also publish our full implementation plan, setting out how we will deliver the recommendations. I agree with my hon.”
“As I have said in every debate of this kind since I have been a Minister, if we had said to ourselves then that in eight years we would have achieved as little as we have, we would have thought that a significant failure. It is a significant failure, and I want those watching this debate to know that we understand that. My hon. Friend the Member for Kensington and Bayswater said that the progress is glacial. That is exactly right, and it behoves us to change that with real intent. That is my commitment and the Deputy Prime Minister’s commitment. Last September, Sir Martin Moore-Bick published the inquiry’s final report. It is a hugely important staging post and driver for action. The findings were clear: the system failed at every point—public, private, local, national. Families were failed. Residents’ voices were ignored.”
“It has always been clear to me, in my conversations with the bereaved and survivors and with families and next of kin, that the demographics in terms of race speak their own story, and that is similarly the case with disability. That is why it has informed our policy in PEEPs, which I will talk to shortly, as well as our entire agenda around residents’ voice in social housing, which I will also come on to. My hon. Friend the Member for Vauxhall and Camberwell Green (Florence Eshalomi) and I discussed this when we were in the very early stages of our time as Members of Parliament, and I know exactly where I was sitting during the discussions we had then—I can see it but 10 metres from here.”
“Friend’s points on the pace of remediation. I inherited a trajectory that took us into the 2040s. Our remediation acceleration plan—certainly for buildings above 18 metres with unsafe cladding in a Government scheme—concertinas that to 2029. We will be updating our remediation acceleration plan this summer to push even further on what we can do to get quicker remediation. My hon. Friend mentioned the challenges around social housing and the impact that has not just on remediation but on building. Those points were very well made. We will announce our longer-term plans in that space shortly.”
“The council has a huge gap in funding—he said it is £85 million and I would say £84 million, but it is a significant gap either way. I will continue to work with him, the residents’ association—I know that its able chair, Mushtaq Lasharie, will press us at every opportunity, as he rightly always does—and the council on how to take the issue forward. The hon. Gentleman mentioned PEEPs, which has recently become a responsibility of mine and of MHCLG. As he said, we are looking to lay secondary legislation as soon as we can. I am committed to working with disability groups to ensure that the guidance and the toolkit in its implementation is as good as possible. We have committed funding this year, and any future funding will be part of the spending review process, which is coming to its peroration tomorrow. I agree with my hon.”
“It is clear and accepted that the royal borough of Kensington and Chelsea also failed. The leadership has committed to change and has taken important steps forward, but we still hear from too many residents that they are not getting the experience they should. The Deputy Prime Minister and I have met the leader of the council, and we have challenged the council to become an exemplar as a fitting legacy for this tragedy. We will continue to hold the council to account until residents feel and see the change. My hon. Friend mentioned the Lancaster West estate. I am conscious that even before that terrible night in 2017, residents there had lived on a building site for a very long time. They say that to me every time I see them.”
“I know that, with these colleagues behind me, that will never be the case, but for the Government it will not be either. As my hon. Friend the Member for Vauxhall and Camberwell Green said, this is a moment of trauma for individuals, so it is crucial that really good mental health support is available for the community. I and the Under-Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, my hon. Friend the Member for West Lancashire (Ashley Dalton), are raising that with the integrated care board to ensure that the right mental health services are there, the right screening facilities are there, and there is the right screening for children and young people, which is such a community priority. I will work with my hon. Friend the Member for Kensington and Bayswater in that venture to ensure that those healthcare services are there.”
“We will continue to work closely with bereaved families, survivors, next of kin and residents as we prepare work to carefully take down Grenfell Tower, starting in the autumn. They will remain at the heart of this work. As we look to the future, we are committed to supporting the independent memorial commission in its important work to create a fitting and lasting memorial determined by the community. The Deputy Prime Minister and I will continue—as we have throughout—to meet with anyone who wants that, to listen and act on the issues we are raising and, more importantly, the issues they raise with us. I know that there is a lot of anxiety that as the tower is carefully taken down, the moment for the Grenfell community will be forgotten. Again, I want to give an assurance on that.”
“When I talk to the bereaved and survivors about whatever the matter of the day is, they always say to me, “Yes, Alex, but that is not justice yet.” I know that, and the Prime Minister acknowledged last year that the inquiry final report, while exposing the truth, does not yet bring the justice that families rightly deserve. Again, I am aware of the frustration in this area and the strong feeling that accountability has yet to be achieved. We continue to support the independent Metropolitan Police Service as it conducts its investigations—we know how important that is. I want to touch on the tower itself. As my hon. Friend the Member for Kensington and Bayswater said, this will be a poignant anniversary because it will be the final one with the tower as it is.”
“That meets the commitment under the Grenfell Tower inquiry review. My hon. Friend the Member for Vauxhall and Camberwell Green knows that I will refer to the points I made at her Select Committee. The Cabinet Office, as part of its ongoing inquiry work, is exploring how to improve scrutiny and accountability for all inquiry responses, so that actions can be taken more quickly. I would not want to run ahead of that. To address the point from my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool Riverside (Kim Johnson), we remain fully committed to a Hillsborough law, which will include a legal duty of candour for public servants and criminal sanctions for those who refuse to comply. I turn now to justice, which the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) and my hon. Friend the Member for Kensington and Bayswater spoke with real power about.”
“I am grateful for my hon. Friend’s intervention; she pre-empts my next point. Before I move on, I want to recognise the point from my hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh South West (Dr Arthur), who said that he hopes that we will have opportunities to debate our progress. We have committed to an annual debate in this place about our progress, and we will have those debates until we have delivered on the recommendations. Turning to oversight, we are committed to transparency, accountability and scrutiny. It is entirely right that the community, having been failed in the ways that they have, want to see very clear accountability. We will record all recommendations made by public inquiries on gov.uk by next summer, backdating it to 2024, so there will be public tracking of inquiry recommendations.”
“On a point of fact, RSLs can access the building safety fund and cladding safety scheme, but I have heard from them that the circumstances in which they can do that—basically, declaring a degree of financial distress—are difficult for them, and I understand that. I cannot be drawn on any events upcoming; all I will say is that my hon. Friend’s suggestion has an awful lot of merit.”
“I totally agree. Those trapped are living in intolerable circumstances. As part of the update to the remediation acceleration plan, we will have more about what we can do to provide them with relief. In conclusion, this has been a hugely important debate. We will have many more, and we will work our hardest to deliver justice for the community as quickly as we possibly can. Question put and agreed to.”
“The Government are committed to rejuvenating high streets by empowering local communities. Through the £1.5 billion plan for neighbourhoods, we are providing flexible funding to support our most challenged communities. We are also tackling vacancy with high street rental auctions and legislating for a new community right to buy to support community ownership.”
“This Government understand the unique challenges that Heswall faces, including as a coastal community. That is why we are driving power and funding out of Westminster to ensure that no community is left behind. Just last week my right hon. Friend the Chancellor announced £1.6 billion in funding for the Liverpool city region, including £100 million to upgrade the bus network, which is vital for connectivity to my hon. Friend’s community. I understand that those upgrades will begin in the Wirral next year, and I encourage Wirral council, as I do all local authorities, to take advantage of the new powers the Government have introduced to reoccupy the empty shops that are such a blight on our high streets.”
“I can say to my hon. Friend’s constituents that he is making good on that election commitment, because we have had this conversation on multiple occasions. Like all future funding, the Government will set out their long-term vision for local growth at the multi-year spending review; but in this year, the recently communicated UK shared prosperity fund announcement included more than £47 million for Cornwall and the Isles of Scilly—a mixture of revenue and capital funding to ensure that places can get going and kick-start economic growth locally, bringing towns such as his into play.”
“I fully share my hon. Friend’s anger about the unfunded commitments to Hucknall from the previous Government. I know how disappointing that has been locally. I am pleased we have been able to reprioritise some funding within extremely tight budgets to give the support that she talks about. As she knows, I live only two tram stops from Hucknall, and of course I would be keen to pop on the tram and see her—and if we meet in the Plough, I would be doubly keen. Either way, I will be making sure I get to see her.”
“I share the right hon. Gentleman’s enthusiasm for Changing Places toilets, which have their roots in Nottingham. Frankly, people will not be able to access the amenities on their high streets if they do not feel they can leave their home without those facilities. I share his enthusiasm and commend him and his community. He sells himself slightly short, however, because I recall that when he was a Minister in this Department, he changed the rules and building regulations to make it easier to develop such toilets, and as Chancellor he made funding available for more as well. I would like to take this opportunity to recognise that and to praise him and the community of Wensleydale.”
“This is a really important question. The future mix of our high streets will undoubtably include, yes, traditional retail but also leisure and accommodation. That footfall can be a good thing, but if this is not well planned or well organised, and if communities are not brought along, it will not succeed. I am conscious that we have the Planning and Infrastructure Bill proceedings ahead of us today, and I am sure the hon. Gentleman will find an opportunity to make that case to the Minister for Housing and Planning.”
“The hon. Gentleman will be aware of the changes we have made to ensure that there are discounts on business rates for certain businesses this year, with further commitments to come at the Budget. He makes the right point. Of course I cannot announce that outside the Budget, but we will consider those points carefully.”
“The hon. Gentleman offers me two opportunities there. First, we talk about challenges on the high street, but I remind the House of the more than a decade of starved demand because the economic policies of the Conservatives and all the impacts that had, followed by— [ Interruption. ] The stag do on the Opposition Front Bench are making their rattle as usual, but they were all present during that disastrous fiscal event that led to the increased costs that we are still coping with now. The second temptation the hon. Gentleman gives me is the opportunity to resign by leaking details of the spending review here first. Sadly, I will give no succour there.”
“The Government’s defining mission is delivering economic growth and driving up living standards. That is why we are investing up to £200 million across 10 Scottish towns over 10 years to support regeneration, tackle inequalities and unleash their full potential. That will empower local communities, improve public services and create new opportunities. That is, of course, alongside the shared prosperity fund, which is investing £4.4 million in Fife this year.”
“I can assure the hon. Lady, her constituents and the House that I do not think a week has gone by without her pushing me on Kirkcaldy town centre. She knows that I cannot run ahead of any multi-year spending review that may be upon us soon, but the point she made, and always makes to me, is a good one. I of course associate myself with her comments about Davy.”
“The hon. Gentleman knows that I talk with my counterparts in all the devolved Governments, including Scotland and Northern Ireland, and I will continue to do so. The shared prosperity fund is a sign of our commitment in that direction. We will, I am sure, see future plans shortly.”
“I am grateful for that question, which raises something mirrored in many parts of this country. The duty to make sure that homes are safe is the responsibility of builders and owners. Where they fall short, there are legal powers for the local authority and for the fire and rescue service to compel them to change. As with all hon. and right hon. colleagues across the House, I would be happy to help, if I can, with any specific examples that the hon. Gentleman has.”
“As my hon. Friend rightly identifies, fire is a devolved matter. In England, stand-alone fire and rescue authorities will see an increase in core spending power of nearly £70 million in 2025-26. Those fire and rescue authorities are required to plan for foreseeable risks in their area, including wildfire and flooding, and to decide where to direct resources. On co-operation, I assure him, as I did the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon), that I am talking to my counterparts in the devolved Government to make sure that we are tackling common problems and sharing that insight.”
“I thank the hon. Gentleman for the opportunity to talk about community ownership of those locally loved assets. We know such places endure during difficult times; they provide good employment for local people and they normally employ a more diverse workforce base. We were pleased in the previous round to get money out to a number of schemes through the community ownership fund. We will legislate for an improved community right to buy, too. We are very much aligned in this space on the exceptional importance of community ownership.”
“In addition to my previous answer, my hon. Friend will have heard me talk about the importance of targeting resource at deprivation and need. I think that is the right approach to funding. It also goes a bit beyond funding, to power, which all communities can benefit from. Whether it is high street rental auctions, an enhanced community right to buy, local planning processes or local communities taking those opportunities to shape place, local authorities are important in that conversation. I know my hon. Friend is pushing his in that regard.”
“In March, we switched on the right-to-manage provisions, which allow for expanding access, reforming costs and voting rights. Some things in the Act require secondary legislation, and we have been able to turn them on.”
“Friend the Member for Greenwich and Woolwich (Matthew Pennycook), made a statement on the next steps for leasehold and commonhold reform that set out our intended sequencing for bringing those provisions of the Act into force, including an extensive programme of secondary legislation and consultation. The parts of the Act that can be implemented quickly have been implemented. A number of provisions relating to rent charge arrears, building safety legal costs and the work of professional insolvency practitioners came into force in July 2024. In October, we commenced further building safety measures. In January, we commenced provisions to remove the two-year qualifying rule in relation to enfranchisement and leasehold extensions.”
“We are committed as a Government to honouring the commitments made in our manifesto and to doing what is necessary to bring the feudal leasehold system to an end. I will cover the legislation as it is, how we are going to commence those provisions, legislation that we committed to in the King’s Speech and, hopefully, some other elements at the end. We heard from my hon. Friend and other colleagues that there are unfair and unreasonable practices that require urgent relief. As my hon. Friend said, the Leasehold and Freehold Reform Act 2024, with the cross-party support that it garnered, provides scope for some of that relief. In November, the Minister for Housing and Planning, my hon.”
“It is a pleasure to serve with you in the Chair, Dr Allin-Khan. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Brentford and Isleworth (Ruth Cadbury) on securing this debate, on the case that she made and on the passion with which she spoke. This degree of turnout is uncommon for a half-hour debate, which shows the strength of feeling on this matter across the UK. Anybody writing legal letters to my hon. Friend with the idea that it might stop her using her platform to advocate for her constituents is likely to be deeply disappointed. Nevertheless, the debate has reinforced the case for major reform of the leasehold system. My hon. Friend highlighted the broad range of issues faced by leaseholders every day.”
“Friend the Member for Swindon North (Will Stone) mentioned, for the up to 1.75 million homes on private and mixed-tenure housing estates that are subject to estate charges, we will bring the measures into force as soon as possible once we have the correct model.”
“I do. I appreciate that there is frustration about consultation, but some of the challenges within the Act show why it is important that we get this right, and that we have a process that delivers the relief that people are so desperately waiting for. One such consultation that has now concluded is around insurance commissions, which relates to service charges. We are consulting on how to replace that with a fairer and more transparent permitted insurance fee. This year, we will also start the consultation on relevant measures related to service charges and litigation costs more generally. On new consumer protection provisions, as my hon.”
“I commend my hon. Friend for his work there; it will be of great succour to a number of his constituents. However, he is right, because this is a confluence a failure to build enough houses and a system that has been left to govern itself and act in the ways that my hon. Friend the Member for Brentford and Isleworth set out, leaving people with no choice but to enter into arrangements that lead to them having to live with these long-term consequences. That is why we must build more houses and address those behaviours.”
“It will make commonhold the default, and it began with the publication of the White Paper in March. Alongside that, in response to the question from my hon. Friend the Member for Brentford and Isleworth about the 5 million leaseholders, we want to make the conversion process easier. Once commonhold comes back into public prominence as a model, I think it will be more popular, but we want it to be easier as well. We want to reform the existing system by legislating to tackle unregulated and unaffordable ground rents, as was mentioned, to remove the disproportionate and draconian threat of forfeiture, to act to protect leasehold from poor service from managing agents, as many have said, and to enact the remaining Law Commission recommendations on enfranchisement and the right to manage. We will address private estate management in that.”
“I absolutely agree, and I will turn to that in a second. We will also be consulting on the valuation rates used to calculate the cost of enfranchisement premiums, and would welcome hon. and right hon. Members’ views on that. However, there are some deficiencies in the Act that need to be rectified in primary legislation, so we do need to legislate. That gives us the opportunity to bring forward, in line with what hon. Members have said, a new era of commonhold being the default tenure for new flats. That is why we committed in the King’s Speech to a leasehold and commonhold reform Bill. It is part of our commitment to bring the feudal leasehold system to an end. We have committed to publishing draft legislation on this in the second half of the year.”
“However, this year, we will consult on the Act’s provisions on service charges and litigation costs so that we can bring them into force as quickly as possible. We will also consult on reforms to the section 20 major works procedure, which landlords must follow when leaseholders receive big bills for large works, as has been mentioned in the debate. There is much more to do in that area. On the subject of managing agents, I reassure my hon. Friend the Member for Brentford and Isleworth that we have heard her call about minimum standards.”
“I absolutely can. My hon. Friend is a doughty campaigner for buildings in Southampton. We are meeting later to discuss one of them. I assure him, and those residents, that we know that they need change and relief now. That is why we have made the changes that we have been able to make so far. We want to get the changes right so that when the relief comes, it sticks, does not get mired and has the right impact. However, we appreciate the urgency with which my hon. Friend speaks. Several hon. Members have mentioned service charges and managing agents. Service charges have become a particular pinch point, highlighted by the cost of living pressures in recent years. The LAFRA gives us measures to increase transparency and to remove barriers that prevent leaseholders from challenging them, including more standardised information.”
“There are people living under intolerable strain. We are committed, as a Government, to giving them relief as quickly as possible, and in a way that sticks. I will be working on it with my hon. Friend the Member for Brentford and Isleworth and colleagues over the coming weeks and months. Question put and agreed to.”
“Friend the Member for Brentford and Isleworth mentioned building safety and fire, which are part of my brief. As a Government, we understand that as part of our remediation acceleration plan, we need to give clarity about what a remediated standard is. I have talked to insurers about it, including about what they are asking for. The cladding safety scandal is being addressed through remediation. That cannot lead to a half a dozen other issues for leaseholders. We are pushing industry in that area, but we have been asked for certainty and we will deliver it. There has been a lot to consider in this debate, and it could easily go on for another hour, which I think would be important. However, I know that colleagues will not let the matter lie. The subject is frequently on Parliament’s agenda, and rightly so.”
“They play an important role, particularly in multi-occupancy buildings, and that role is likely to increase in importance as commonhold becomes the default tenure. Many provide a good service, but there are too many examples like those mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for Bournemouth East. I know that all hon. Members here could tell me about similar examples. In 2018, the previous Government committed to regulating the sector. The report came back from Lord Best and they did not respond to it. We are looking at it closely and we will set out our position in due course. However, we have said that as a minimum, we will include mandatory professional qualifications for managing agents, to ensure that they have the skills that they need to carry out their role to a high standard. Finally, my hon.”
“I am keen to say clearly from the Front Bench that we will legislate in this area to close the dark corners that unscrupulous managing agents use to maximise profits. However, they do not have to wait for that in order to do the right thing. They have a duty to residents. There are many great examples of managing agents and landlords doing the right things by their residents. That is good for them, their building and the individuals who live there. They can do that today. I know that my hon. Friend will continue his work until they do so. That brings me to an important point that was raised both by my hon. Friend the Member for Bournemouth East and by my hon. Friend the Member for Brentford and Isleworth when she opened the debate, about the regulation of managing agents.”
“There is a common theme, which is the huge social value in people from a community, who know their community, coming together to tackle challenges and add to that community. We should want as much of that as we can foster, and the Government are keen to support that. Question put and agreed to.”