Laura Trott
MP for Sevenoaks · Conservative · United Kingdom
“Well, that is a load of rubbish. The Secretary of State says that she is proud of the action that the Government are taking on pay. May I suggest that one of the reasons teachers are angry is that they still do not know their pay?”
“The resignation of the Prime Minister this morning was a damning indictment of the record of this Government over the last two years. Part of the Prime Minister’s legacy will be teacher morale at an all-time low.”
“We have moved so far, and things have only changed because of the unity of those on the Opposition Benches, because of Lord Nash’s brilliant campaign and because of the coalition behind Raise the Age.”
“On Friday, after Labour MPs had repeatedly blocked a social media ban for under-16s, we had a new proposal from the Government. It was not a serious response to the issue we are facing. It gave the Government three years to take unspecified action on social media, which was nowhere near good enough. Today, that has changed.”
“My right hon. Friend is always correct to be worried, but he will know that in Lord Nash’s amendment a 12-month delay was written in. I think it is reasonable to give the Government some time to bring the measure forward.”
“I welcome the Government’s constructive engagement on this issue, and we see a new proposal today that has a much more acceptable timeframe, albeit not as short as I would like. Every month of delay just leaves children more exposed to the harms of social media online.”
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“I appreciate the hon. Gentleman’s interest in pension credit. I hope he will have heard my previous answer about all we are doing to boost take-up and indeed the success that we had before Christmas. I have spoken to him previously about the work we are doing to automate it and make greater use of data; this is an absolute priority for me and for this Government.”
“State pension age equalisation has been the policy of successive Governments, and as the hon. Lady knows, the phasing in of state pension age increases was agreed to by her party in 2011 and 2014.”
“As the hon. Lady knows, the ombudsman’s investigation is ongoing, so unfortunately I cannot comment further—other than what is in the public domain—at this stage.”
“My hon. Friend does sterling work in his constituency. [ Interruption. ] The Minister for Employment, my hon. Friend the Member for Hexham (Guy Opperman), has just indicated that he would be delighted to join my hon. Friend in Gloucester.”
“The Government have provided a record amount of support for pensioners this winter. More than 8 million households have received a £300 cost of living payment in addition to other support. Both the state pension and pension credit will be uprated from April by 10.1% in line with inflation. That means that for the first time the full amount of the new state pension will be more than £10,000 per year.”
“May I remind the hon. Gentleman that under the Conservatives, absolute pensioner poverty has gone down and the state pension has gone up. This Government do deliver and will continue to deliver for pensioners across the United Kingdom.”
“I pay tribute to the work that the hon. Lady is doing in her constituency to boost take-up of pension credit. I would love to work with her and all across the House on this important topic that we are all focused on.”
“My hon. Friend does a lot of important work in this area. What he says is sensible, and all pension funds need to be looking at what more they can do to support pensioners.”
“Automatic enrolment has been a huge success. I know that my hon. Friend does a huge amount of campaigning on this, and we remain committed to implementing the 2017 reforms in the mid-2020s.”
“Friend the Member for Cheadle is right to say that automatic enrolment has been an incredible success and has achieved a transformational effect on retirement savings in the UK, both by employers and by employees. It has seen millions more people working to contribute to their workplace pension and has normalised workplace pension saving. Automatic enrolment is re-establishing a culture of retirement saving for a new generation, with more than 10.8 million workers enrolled into a workplace pension to date and an additional £33 billion more saved in real terms in 2021 than in 2012.”
“The intergenerational impact of this is stark. One group of people is able to retire on a guaranteed pension provided by their employer and have protections—provided by the financial assistance scheme and, latterly, the Pension Protection Fund— in respect of the employer going bust. The second group of people are given no guarantees on the value of their pension, if indeed they have one at all, and they are exposed to market conditions, are reliant on the performance of their individual fund, and wildly different levels of contribution are made by the employer—in some cases, none are made at all. That is why the introduction of automatic enrolment in 2012 was so important. My hon.”
“Friends the Members for Hexham (Guy Opperman) and for Brentwood and Ongar (Alex Burghart), who spoke in support of the Bill on Second Reading and in Committee respectively. I am proud to complete the trio. Private pensions have undergone a quiet revolution in recent decades. It used to be the case that retirement income was guaranteed by the employer via a defined benefit pension. That started to change with the introduction of defined contribution schemes in the early 1990s. Those types of schemes put the risk of the eventual outcome entirely at the feet of the employees, with no guaranteed contribution from employers. That clearly has a huge potential impact on the adequacy of someone’s private pension for retirement, and introduced a huge new complex financial world for individuals to navigate.”
“I am very grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Cheadle (Mary Robinson) for promoting the Bill and I congratulate her on navigating it through to this stage. I have done a private Member’s Bill so I know that that is no mean feat. It requires a huge amount of work, which has been on display today, as have her skills in getting this through. I also thank the Opposition for their support for the Bill, and I thank all of those who have spoken today: my hon. Friends the Members for Clwyd South (Simon Baynes), for Watford (Dean Russell), for North Devon (Selaine Saxby), for Wantage (David Johnston) and for North East Bedfordshire (Richard Fuller). I will endeavour to deal with as many of his questions as I can, but I will write to him on any I am unable to address. I also pay tribute to my predecessors in this role, my hon.”
“The Government consulted last year, and in response to the consultation we set out a broad framework of relevant matters that will be considered before the Secretary of State announces the dashboards available point. That will include consideration of the level of coverage; ensuring the safety, security and reliability of the service; and testing the user experience.”
“Numerous Members asked about timings. The Pensions Dashboards Regulations 2022, which set out the requirements for relevant occupational pension schemes to be connected to the pensions dashboards digital system, were approved by the House in November 2022 with cross-party support, and they have now come into force. We hope to see the first schemes connecting to the dashboards infrastructure in the coming months. Members also asked when individuals will be able to access these dashboards. We refer to this as the dashboards available point. As set out in the Pensions Dashboards Regulations 2022, the dashboards available point will be when the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions is satisfied that the dashboards are ready to support widespread use by the general public.”
“Friend the Member for Cheadle alluded to is that many people have multiple pension pots, and it can be difficult for people to keep track of what they have saved for retirement. Having lots of pension pots can be confusing. The Financial Conduct Authority’s recent survey showed that 54% of defined contribution pension holders aged 45 to 64 say they have little or no idea of how much annual income they expect to have from their defined benefit contributions. Members will be pleased to know that we have a solution to these issues: pensions dashboards. Dashboards will allow individuals to view information about their multiple pensions, including their state pension, in one place, online—even pots they had forgotten they had in the first place. As my hon. Friend the Member for Watford said, it will tell us what our future looks like.”
“Research in 2021 suggested that 73% of people have multiple pension pots, and research by Scottish Widows suggests that almost half of workplace pension holders do not know how many pension pots they hold with previous employers. Indeed, they will frequently forget about their pension pots from previous employers altogether. The first policy issue with automatic enrolment that we therefore need to address is ensuring that pots are reunited with people. While estimates and definitions of lost pension pots vary, the latest survey from the Pensions Policy Institute suggests that the value of lost pots in the UK may have grown from £19.4 billion in 2018 to £26.6 billion in 2022. The second issue that my hon.”
“The 2017 review of automatic enrolment sets out the Government’s ambition to enable people to save more and to start saving earlier by abolishing the lower earnings limit and reducing the qualifying age for automatic enrolment to 18. We are committed to implementing these measures in the mid-2020s. However, the success of automatic enrolment in increasing the number of pension savings and the number of pension pots people have comes with policy problems that we have to solve. People have an average of 11 jobs in their lifetime. With automatic enrolment, they will often have a new pension pot every time they move job.”
“The Pensions Commission did a great piece of work. As the shadow Minister rightly pointed out, it was implemented by the Conservatives. Automatic enrolment was designed specifically to help groups who have historically been less likely to save, such as women and lower earners. My hon. Friend the Member for North Devon referred to women, and automatic enrolment has particularly helped them; millions more have been saving into a pension for the first time. Workplace pension participation among eligible women working in the private sector has risen from 40% in 2012 to a brilliant 87% in 2021—that is the same level as for eligible men in the private sector. We absolutely know that there is more to do, particularly to enable young adults, lower earners and part-time workers to achieve greater security in later life.”
“Friend the Member for North East Bedfordshire asked me lots of questions, and I will write to him, because I need to hurry up. In conclusion, it is to the huge credit of my hon. Friend the Member for Cheadle that she successfully brought the Bill forward on a cross-party basis and navigated its passage. I am delighted to restate that the Government support the Bill and will continue to support it as it moves through Parliament. I wish it every success.”
“The timetable set out in the regulations is about pension providers uploading the information to the dashboard. When that is available for individuals is a decision that the Secretary of State then has to take, but the timetable for information being uploaded is public and is the one agreed in the regulations. I hope that that answers the hon. Gentleman’s question. As my hon. Friend the Member for Cheadle said, in order to ensure compliance with dashboards regulations, the Pensions Regulator has been given power to take enforcement action for non-compliance with any of the requirements in part 3 of the Pensions Dashboards Regulations 2022. That includes the possibility that the regulator may, at its discretion, issue penalty notices of up to £5,000 for individuals or up to £50,000 in other cases, such as corporate trustees. My hon.”
“That includes the £650 cost of living payment, paid in two instalments, to help those on pension credit with the rising cost of living. As we all know—and I would like to emphasise this again—it is not too late for pensioners who are not already getting pension credit to qualify for the second instalment. That is because a claim for pension credit can be backdated for up to three months, provided the entitlement conditions are met throughout that time. To ensure that a successful backdated claim falls within the qualifying period for the second cost of living payment, we are urging people to claim pension credit as soon as possible, and by no later than 18 December.”
“Member for Battersea referred to the minimum income guarantee, which is what we put in place to ensure that pensioners do not fall below a certain base. It also acts as a gateway to other help, including assistance with rent, council tax, NHS prescriptions and heating bills. Of immediate importance, it is a gateway to the additional cost of living payments we are paying to those on qualifying means-tested benefits. There is more that we need to do to link that up with other information that the Government have. I will be pleased to work with Opposition Members, as well as the hon. Member for Glasgow East (David Linden), in order to try to make that happen. We have taken direct action when pensioners have needed it, both through the pandemic and now with the rising cost of living.”
“That is £720 more than if it had been uprated by prices, and £570 more than if it had been uprated by earnings. As all hon. Members here today recognise, the Government have announced plans to apply the triple lock this year. It was announced, according to the normal parliamentary timetable, that from April the state pension will be over £3,000 per year higher in cash terms, which is double what it was in 2010, £790 more than if it had been uprated by prices, and £945 more than if it had been uprated by earnings. Pension credit has come up a lot today, as it should. Pension credit provides vital additional financial support by topping up the state pension and other retirement incomes. The hon.”
“Most people will have a private or occupational pension on top of the state pension. In the 2021 financial year, the average net income of all pensioners was £361 per week, after housing costs. Crucially, the Government also provide around £67 billion each year in tax relief to boost private retirement savings. It is important to consider all aspects of Government support for retirement, rather than solely the state pension amount. The Government are committed to ensuring that the state pension continues to provide the foundations for people’s retirement income, and we are proud of the assistance we have given pensioners since 2010. Since 2010, the full yearly amount of the basic state pension has risen by over £2,300 in cash terms.”
“However, most pensioners have already left the labour market. Comparisons made in the e-petition between headline state pension amounts and the national living wage do not consider the full package of state measures available to support people in retirement or the fact that pensioners do not pay national insurance or into a pension scheme through automatic enrolment. We need to be clear with the public that a state pension of £380 per week for every UK pensioner would be unaffordable. It would mean an annual cost of up to £251 billion if it was applied for 2022-23. That compares to the £110 billion we are currently forecast to spend on the state pension. In the UK we have a system of state and private pensions, which jointly provide an income for people in retirement.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Robert. I thank all hon. Members for their valuable contributions, and the hon. Member for Battersea (Marsha De Cordova) for opening the debate. The Government disagree with the petition’s proposed approach. It makes two suggestions: to increase the state pension and to lower the retirement age. I will first address the proposal to increase the state pension to £380 a week. That would equate pensioner income with the national living wage in 2022-23. However, the national living wage and the state pension are two very different provisions, with distinct purposes. A direct comparison cannot be drawn between the levels of the two. The national living wage aims to protect low-income workers and to provide an incentive to work, by ensuring that workers benefit from being employed.”
“I would be more than happy to do so. I know that we spent £1.2 million over the summer. I have signed off a campaign for this winter, with more coming after Christmas, but I will write to the hon. Gentleman with the exact amounts. That leads me nicely on to the hon. Member for Battersea, who referred to the take-up campaign. We have had a huge take-up campaign over the summer, and we have done one recently as well. We have further communication planned. It is something I am very focused on, and I would like to work with all hon. Members who are interested to ensure that it happens.”
“We know that claims for pension credit have tripled since the summer. On average, we used to get 2,000 claims a week—that has gone up to 6,000. The seven out of 10 figure that everybody uses comes from the family resources survey, which was last done in 2019-20, which has caused the difficulty with exact details on eligibility. Because of the pandemic, the survey has not been repeated, and there is an 18-month delay on the figures. It is very difficult to get up-to-date data on actual eligibility levels, which is something that we need to address over the longer term. In the interim, though, we have the numbers of people who are making the claims through the line, which, as I have said, have gone up threefold.”
“The state pension is funded through the national insurance and tax contributions of the current working-age population. Like increasing the state pension, reducing the state pension age to 60 would massively increase the tax burden on the current working-age population and carry significant cost.”
“A number of Members talked about international comparisons; OECD rankings show that, thanks to this Government’s reforms, the UK pensions systems will provide future workers with income replacement rates comparable to the OECD average and higher than countries such as Switzerland, Norway and Germany. Let me turn to the second suggestion: decreasing the state pension age to 60. The Government have no plans to reverse changes to the state pension age. Previous reforms have focused on maintaining the right balance between affordability, the sustainability of the state pension and fairness between generations. Changes to state pension age were made through a series of Acts, and by successive Governments, from 1995 onwards. Those reforms followed public consultations and extensive debates in both Houses of Parliament.”
“I want to bring up the findings of the 2017 review of measures for automatic enrolment, as the hon. Member for Battersea mentioned her support for the lower earnings limit. The 2017 review of automatic enrolment set out the ambition to enable people to save more and to start saving earlier by abolishing the lower earnings limit and reducing the qualifying age for automatic enrolment to 18 by the mid-2020s. We have always been clear that changes would be made in a way and at a time that are affordable, balancing the needs of savers, employers and taxpayers, and the Government are absolutely still committed to that. Together, the new state pension, automatic enrolment to workplace pensions and the safety net of pension credit will provide a robust system for pensioners for decades to come.”
“We are forecast to spend more than £134 billion on benefits for pensioners in 2022-23, which amounts to 5.4% of GDP and includes spending on the state pension that is forecast to be over £110 billion in 2022-23. Thankfully, there are 400,000 fewer pensioners in absolute poverty, both before and after housing costs, than in 2009-10, but there is, of course, always more to do. Automatic enrolment, as mentioned by the hon. Member for Cynon Valley (Beth Winter), is transforming private saving. More than 10.7 million people have been automatically enrolled into a workplace pension and more than 2 million employers have complied with their duties to date. This has helped to supply around an additional £33 billion into pensions savings in real terms in 2021 compared to 2012.”
“In 2016, the Government introduced the new state pension, which forms a clear foundation for individuals’ private savings to provide the retirement they want. At the heart of its design, we sought to correct some historic unfairness in the previous system, in particular for women, self-employed people and lower-paid workers. More than 3 million women are set to receive an average of £550 more a year by 2030. State pension outcomes are also expected to equalise for men and women by the early 2040s—more than a decade earlier than they would have aligned under the old system. I want to pause here to mention pensioner poverty, which was brought up by a number of hon. Members. I know it is something we all care deeply about. The Government are committed to action that helps to alleviate the levels of pensioner poverty.”
“I am very happy to do so. If there are any specific approaches the hon. Gentleman thinks the Government should be taking, I am very open to any ideas he may have and would happily take them forward. The £650 cost of living payment is one of a number of measures in the Government’s £37 billion cost of living support package, which will ensure that the most vulnerable households will receive at least £1,200 this year. The package also includes a £400 reduction on energy bills for all domestic electricity customers over the coming months, plus a £150 council tax rebate for 85% of all UK households. In addition to the steps we have taken to address the cost of living for pensioners, we have also made long-term reforms to the state pension and introduced automatic enrolment to boost private saving.”
“Member for Battersea was absolutely right that we need to support workers in later life, and BEIS is working on exactly that. In conclusion, I welcome today’s debate and acknowledge the proposals set out in the e-petition. As I have mentioned, the Government provide wide-ranging measures to support people in retirement. Our recent announcement of plans to apply the triple lock this year demonstrates our commitment to providing a strong foundation of support for pensioners.”
“The PHSO is undertaking a multi-stage process, and it has not given its final findings on the overall investigation. If the PHSO finds injustice, it will move on to stage 3 and consider any recommendations. The DWP will wait before taking any further steps. The UK has an ageing population and workforce. The proportion of people aged 50 years and over compared to those aged 16 and over is projected to increase from 42% in 2010 to nearly 50% by 2035. That is nearly 29 million more people. Older workers will bring a wealth of skills and experience to the workplace, and they are vital to the economy. By working for longer, older people have the opportunity to improve their retirement income and benefit from the social engagement that employment brings. The hon.”
“State pension entitlement is obviously built up through contributions over a period of time, but equally there is a huge burden on the state, and that has to be met at a given point. As we have discussed, pension pots are funded widely by both the working-age population and people later in life. The Government previously estimated that, had we not increased the state pension age for both men and women, the total additional cost to taxpayers—in 2018-19 prices—would have been around £215 billion for the period from 2010-11 to 2025-26. Lowering the state pension age is clearly unaffordable, and would place an ever-increasing and unfair burden on taxpayers. That would not be right, particularly as life expectancy continues to rise. A number of hon. Members mentioned the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman.”
“State pension age equalisation and subsequent increases have been the policy of successive Governments. The phasing in of state pension age increases was agreed to by the hon. Lady’s party in 2011 and 2014.”
“All pensioner households are in the process of receiving an extra £300 to help them cover the rising cost of energy this winter. For those in receipt of pension credit, the second cost of living payment of £324 was issued in November.”
“I recognise a lot of the challenges that the hon. Lady mentions, and this is why we are giving pensioners £850, and people on pension credit £1,500, to get through this winter.”
“I thank my right hon. Friend for his question. He is, as always, absolutely right. I know that he visited Age UK recently and raised these issues. It is vital that any pensioners receiving less than £182.60 a week look into whether they are eligible for pension credit, and if they are, they should try to claim it before 18 December, because the cost of living payment of £324 can be backdated.”
“I am grateful to the hon. Member for highlighting the record rise in state pension brought forward by this Government. We are, as ever, on the side of pensioners as we go through this winter, and I would point out that the state pension has doubled from the level we were left by Labour in 2010.”
“We have hired more than 1,000 people to look at that. It was a mistake and we are working as hard as we can to rectify it as quickly as possible.”
“Pension credit is a complicated system that also involves people’s savings, so it is not possible with the information the Government have to award it automatically. That said, we are looking at what we can do, working with local authorities and others, to try to speed up delivery of the payments.”
“Further to this, the Financial Conduct Authority has published final corresponding rules in relation to the providers of personal and stakeholder pension schemes, and will be consulting on a regulatory framework for qualifying pensions dashboard services later this year.”
“The Department for Communities is expected to make corresponding regulations for Northern Ireland. Once connected, pension schemes must follow the requirement to find pensions and send the relevant information to an individual’s chosen qualifying pensions dashboard service. The regulations provide that the Pensions Regulator may take enforcement action in relation to pension schemes that do not comply. The regulations also cover the requirements to be satisfied in order for a pensions dashboard service to be a qualifying pensions dashboard service, which include connection and functionality, display of view data, reporting and monitoring of the dashboard and enabling an independent person to audit the provider’s dashboard.”
“I beg to move, That the Committee has considered the draft Pensions Dashboards Regulations 2022. It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Murray. The regulations were laid before the House on 17 October. I am pleased to introduce this instrument that, subject to approval, will create the framework in which pensions dashboards will operate. Pensions dashboards are digital tools that present individuals with their pensions information. The Pension Schemes Act 2021 gave the Government the powers to create these regulations. The regulations place requirements on registerable Great Britain-based occupational pension schemes with over 100 active, deferred or pension credit members, and specify when those schemes must connect to the Money and Pensions Service, or MaPS.”
“We are grateful to schemes for their co-operation, which is helping to prepare the ground and setting an example for others to follow. I am satisfied that the draft Pensions Dashboards Regulations 2022 are compatible with the European convention on human rights. Subject to the view of this House, the approval of the regulations puts us one step closer to delivery for consumers. I commend the regulations to the Committee.”
“The point at which that will happen is referred to in the regulations as the “Dashboards Available Point”. The Secretary of State will issue a notice at least six months ahead of that point, having considered matters such as the coverage of memberships and service levels. This notice will give the pensions industry time to prepare to answer queries resulting from people engaging with their pensions information. Lastly, it would be remiss of me not to update the House on the delivery of this programme. I am pleased to say that the pensions dashboards programme has delivered the digital architecture underpinning this project, and it is currently testing and refining the service in readiness for schemes to begin connecting from April 2023. Early participants will begin connecting in the new year.”