James Murray
MP for Ealing North · Labour (Co-op) · United Kingdom
“I wonder whether any other Members might say that they have the most pubs in their constituency, or whether the hon. Lady has done her research. [Interruption.] I hear her saying that hers are the best pubs, a claim that even more Members may challenge in the Chamber. Although the hon.”
“The hon. Gentleman has some cheek, given the number of pubs that closed when his party was in government. The Labour party is making sure that the business rates system is set right for the future.”
“I think the hon. Gentleman’s point is that the price of fuel is linked to international events, which, as I said earlier, I very much agree with. That is why it is important that we de-escalate the situation in the strait of Hormuz, which is the best way to bring down the cost of fuel.”
“I know my hon. Friend is a great champion of pubs in her constituency. In fact, she has brought together people for her pub politics events, including at the Willy Wicket, the Beaufort Arms, the Baileys Court Inn—which I have been to—and the White Lion, where people come to talk about issues that matter to them.”
“I thank the hon. Gentleman for talking about the Station House in his constituency; I am sure we all have pubs in our own neighbourhoods that we feel are at the heart of the local communities that we represent. The 20% business rates cut that we announced was a down payment on further reform.”
“I agree with the hon. Lady about the importance of providing breathing space for families, which is a priority for us as a Government, and she mentioned her plans. I have set out what we have done since the general election to reduce fuel prices by 11p per litre compared with what they would have been otherwise.”
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“Let me start by thanking the emergency services in the hon. Gentleman’s constituency for all their work to ensure that people are kept safe, and to respond to the challenges that people face as a result of flooding. We are determined to support public services across the board, and the decisions taken by my right hon. Friend the Chancellor in past Budgets and in the spending review mean that we have sustainable funding for our public services in all parts of the country.”
“My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The hon. Member for Clacton (Nigel Farage) is warmly welcoming people who spent 14 years undermining public services, who wrecked the economy, who botched Brexit, and who were booted out by the British people in 2024—and Reform’s latest recruit was so bad that she managed to get sacked by Liz Truss.”
“This Government are backing investment in Teesside to create the good jobs that my hon. Friend’s constituents deserve. I know that Teesside is very well placed to lead for our country across a range of sectors. For example, £4 billion is going into the UK’s first carbon capture, usage and storage cluster in Teesside, including the world’s first at-scale gas power station with CCUS.”
“I thank the hon. Lady for raising the situation in her constituency. All Departments across Government have had their budgets set, and they include a contingency for covering known pressures. One of the ways that we have managed spending settlements differently from the previous Government is that all Departments must recognise that unexpected pressures will come along. They need to prepare for that, and should have robust plans for responding when such things occur.”
“There will also undoubtably be wider lessons to draw from the design of support schemes and the impact those schemes had on various groups across the economy. As a Government, we will continue to enhance our resilience to future shocks. We have set to work on that since the election, and our efforts will intensify after the official covid-19 inquiry publishes its final report. We will do whatever is necessary to build a safer and more secure country for the future. I will end by again thanking all hon. Members for sharing the experiences of their local businesses and individual constituents in the debate.”
“We have conducted, through Exercise Pegasus, the largest cross-Government pandemic simulation in British history, helping to make sure we are better prepared than before, that our plans are battle-tested, and that we are ready to adapt. As the official covid-19 inquiry draws to a close, we stand ready to study any recommendations and to take action where needed. The economic implications of the covid-19 pandemic for this country were profound. In response to this unprecedented crisis, it was of course necessary to act quickly for our economy and for our communities. But we know that mistakes were made, and the British people were defrauded to the tune of over £10 billion. That is money that should have been spent on schools and hospitals but which has instead gone into the pockets of fraudsters and criminals.”
“Much has been learned already from the covid-19 pandemic, but the scale of the economic emergency facing the country nearly six years ago underlines the need to continue embedding these learnings into the Government’s systems and processes. As I have already set out, we have taken tough action to track down the fraudsters who profited on the previous Government’s watch. We are improving and enhancing the Government’s analytical and modelling capabilities, to ensure that we can better target support schemes in future. We have launched the National Situation Centre, enabling us to identify and plan for a range of risks and improve our crisis response.”
“That is why the Government introduced tougher sanction powers in the Public Authorities (Fraud, Error and Recovery) Act 2025 to help recover stolen funds, and why we have rolled out specialist fraud recovery teams to track down suspected fraudsters and recover taxpayer cash. Since coming to office, the Government have recouped almost £400 million paid in error or that was obtained illegally through covid fraud. As the Chancellor has made clear, this fraud is a fraud against the British people, and we will leave no stone unturned, leave no question unasked, and leave no fraudster unchallenged until we have cleared up the mess we inherited. While we work to fix those problems, we are also turning towards the future, making sure our country is well prepared to face future crises.”
“Last year, an arrest was made following an HMRC investigation into a company, Luxe Lifestyle, which was awarded a £25 million PPE contract, having been referred to the procurement VIP lane by a Conservative Minister and a party chairman. The company won that contract despite having no employees, no assets, no turnover and £9,000 of debt. While Luxe Lifestyle did end up supplying some items, they were all inadequate and unusable. That is just one example. It does not begin to scratch the surface of covid fraud, but we have heard no apology today from the Conservatives for their actions—no apology to this House, and no apology to the British people who have been left to pick up the bill. We cannot allow this ever to happen again.”
“That was a failure of monumental proportions, and we are all continuing to pay the price. That is why, on taking office, we took action to recoup the money owed, including by appointing Tom Hayhoe as the covid counter-fraud commissioner. In December he published his report, and the findings are shocking. According to the commissioner, covid fraud cost the taxpayer a staggering £10.9 billion—that is enough to fund daily free school meals for the UK’s 2.7 million eligible children for eight years. Of course, we recognise that our predecessors in government were responding to a crisis, the nature of which demanded acting at speed, but the cynical exploitation of pandemic support was foreseeable.”
“Members know, the official covid-19 public inquiry is considering how future emergency schemes could be better tailored to the modern labour market. The inquiry recently held public hearings focused on economic support for people and businesses during the pandemic, and it will publish its final report in due course. The Government, including the Treasury, fully participated in those hearings and provided a substantial amount of evidence. We will carefully study and consider any recommendations, mindful of our responsibility to vulnerable groups and our commitment to value for money. As hon. Members have also made clear, no assessment of the previous Government’s record during the pandemic can ignore the fact that billions of pounds of taxpayers’ money was lost to fraud.”
“Members for Wimbledon (Mr Kohler) and for Dewsbury and Batley (Iqbal Mohamed), and my hon. Friend the Member for Falkirk (Euan Stainbank), who spoke about the impact of the pandemic on young people, which has had a lasting effect, as we are all keenly aware. The hon. Members for Didcot and Wantage (Olly Glover) and for Mid Dunbartonshire (Susan Murray) also spoke about their affected businesses and constituents. One of the themes of those contributions was about what we as a country are doing to prepare for the future, to ensure that if a similar crisis happened again, we would be better prepared. As a Government, we are considering how we might better target and reach excluded groups in future, including through better real-time data collection. As hon.”
“Members, a number of people experienced genuine hardship and distress because they were excluded from the available schemes. Many of those experiences have been described powerfully in today’s debate, including by the hon. Member for Stratford-on-Avon in her opening speech and by my hon. Friend the Member for Montgomeryshire and Glyndŵr (Steve Witherden). We also heard a number of other stories about individuals and businesses across the country from my hon. Friend the Member for Truro and Falmouth (Jayne Kirkham), the hon. Member for Ely and East Cambridgeshire (Charlotte Cane), and my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Cheshire (Andrew Cooper), who also spoke about the significance of economic resilience and preparedness for the future—an important topic that I will return to in a moment. We also heard from the hon.”
“As well as having a huge impact on the lives of people and their families across the country, as we have heard today, the pandemic was a huge economic shock. GDP fell by a record 19.4% and thousands of businesses faced closure, so it was necessary to support businesses and individuals affected. We supported putting in place the measures mentioned by the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for North West Norfolk (James Wild), including the coronavirus job retention scheme, the self-employment income support scheme, and various business grants and Government-backed loan guarantees. It is right, however, that we as a country now reflect on how those schemes were implemented by the Government of the day. As we have heard from many hon.”
“The pandemic cost over 227,000 lives in our country, and I know that loss and grief are still felt by families whose loved ones were lost during that difficult period. As the hon. Member for Richmond Park (Sarah Olney) said, reflecting on the pandemic is also a moment to express our gratitude, once again, to all those who worked throughout the pandemic to provide vital and, in many cases, lifesaving services to all of us across the country. It is also a moment to recommit to learning the lessons of what happened during that time, so that we are better prepared for future crises. The Government are committed to learning those lessons and doing all we can to protect businesses and individuals across Britain in future.”
“I, too, congratulate the hon. Member for Stratford-on-Avon (Manuela Perteghella) on securing this debate. I thank hon. Members from both sides of the House for their powerful contributions. Although much of the debate has rightly focused on the detail of the financial support made available by the then Government during the pandemic, we have also heard many deeply personal stories about businesses and individuals who were directly affected. In two months’ time, the country will come together to mark the sixth anniversary of the start of the pandemic. That will be an opportunity for us all to remember and reflect, and to pay tribute to all those who died, whose loss is still so keenly felt in all our constituencies.”
“The Conservatives do not want to talk about the substance of the Budget because they can see that the Chancellor has delivered a Budget that delivers for working people.”
“I thank the Opposition for giving me another opportunity to remind Conservative Members how the Budget cut the cost of living, cut NHS waiting lists and cut Government borrowing. I have seen the shadow Chancellor across the Dispatch Box so much in recent weeks, on what feels like a daily basis, that I might almost miss him over the recess—almost. No matter how many times I have seen him across the Dispatch Box, he has shown that he does not want to talk about the fact that this Budget takes £150 off energy bills, freezes rail fares and prescription charges, lifts 550,000 children out of poverty, increases our headroom to £21.7 billion, and gets debt falling and cuts borrowing in every year. This Budget invests in our NHS, our defence, our roads and our railways, and in every region and nation of the UK.”
“There, they will see that the OBR’s productivity review, which covered the Conservatives’ time in office, reduces “the amount of revenue the OBR expects the government to collect by around £16 billion in 2029-30.””
“When the Chancellor addressed the country that morning, her purpose was simple: to give the British people an honest sense of the circumstances we were facing and the principles that would guide her as she took decisions at the Budget. She wanted to highlight the challenges that our country was facing and her priorities in the face of those challenges, and that is exactly what she did. Following the OBR’s review of productivity—the review of the impact of 14 years of the Conservatives being in power—the Chancellor knew that we faced a downgrade. To understand the scale of the impact, members of the Opposition need only to consult the Budget document.”
“I am unclear whether the hon. Gentleman supports our £150 off energy bills and our extra £150 off for those 6 million households on the lowest income. That will benefit people right across the UK with the cost of living challenges they face. We know that that is what matters to people right across Britain. Instead of focusing on what this Budget means for people across Britain, we heard the shadow Chancellor’s comments on a motion that focuses so much on process. While I accept that process is very important, it has been covered extensively in recent weeks—indeed, most recently by the Chancellor in the Treasury Committee this morning—so let me put on record our response to the motion and to the comments that the shadow Chancellor made about process. Let me begin by again addressing the speech that the Chancellor made on 4 November.”
“The right hon. Gentleman is mistaken. We have kept to our manifesto commitment not to raise the rates of income tax, national insurance on working people, and VAT. We also said in our manifesto that we would keep taxes on working people as low as possible, and we have been able to do that only because of the other fair and necessary choices that the Chancellor made on taxation.”
“The word “rates” is definitely in there. The manifesto talks about the income tax rates and additional, main and higher rates of income tax, and it is very clear that we were talking about the rates of tax on working people. As I said, the manifesto also says that we will keep taxes on working people as low as possible. I note that the right hon. Gentleman did not take my suggestion to comment on some of the other tax choices we took at the Budget—the fair and necessary choices. The Opposition are picking and choosing what they want to refer to in the Budget. The Budget is a package. If they do not like it, they should explain what they would do instead.”
“The Chancellor set out the productivity review that was under way by the OBR. In fact, if the right hon. Gentleman consults the OBR document published on Budget day, he will see in black and white that the productivity downgrade reduced tax receipts by £16 billion. The Chancellor was clear in her speech on 4 November that this, combined with the clear need to increase headroom to build resilience in public finances, would require everyone to contribute, and that is what happened.”
“As the right hon. Gentleman should know, this Government take our responsibilities to public office incredibly seriously, and we have made sure we focus on that in the way we conduct ourselves in office. In speaking to people on 4 November, the Chancellor was setting out the challenges that we knew we were facing and the principles that would guide her in approaching decisions ahead of the Budget. It was important to set out the priorities she would have in taking her decisions on Budget day.”
“She set out her priorities for the Budget, and those priorities were exactly what the Budget delivered. The apparent astonishment of Conservative Members that a Government could set out circumstances honestly, explain their approach and then deliver as promised is very telling—it must be an alien concept that they never considered during their time in office. As the Chancellor set out on 4 November and then delivered in her Budget, she wanted to cut NHS waiting lists, and that is exactly what we are doing. Waiting lists are already down by 230,000, with an extra 5 million appointments delivered since the election and 250 new neighbourhood health centres on the way.”
“What the Chancellor knew when she gave her speech on 4 November was that headroom stood at a precarious £4.2 billion, and that was before previously announced policy measures had been accounted for. As I have said before in this House, and as Professor Miles of the OBR said to the Treasury Committee, that was a very challenging fiscal situation. If I had been at this Dispatch Box trying to justify a headroom of £4.2 billion or less, that would have been completely indefensible. Doing nothing was not an option—£4.2 billion of headroom would have been insufficient and deeply irresponsible. In her speech at the beginning of November, the Chancellor was clear that she would seek to build more resilient public finances, with headroom to withstand global turbulence.”
“I thank my hon. Friend for talking about the experience of her constituents. She is absolutely right that the NHS is so important to all of us, and it is so important for the Chancellor to protect it in the Budget. The decisions she took protect our investment in the NHS in order to get it back on its feet, which will improve people’s experiences right across the country.”
“My hon. Friend is absolutely right that although improving the NHS is a clear priority, because of all of our experiences and because of our reliance on it to keep ourselves and our families healthy. Investing in the NHS is also an economic investment, because people being out of the workforce due to ill health is a serious drag on our economy—that is the situation we inherited from the previous Government. Our investment in the health service and our desire to get the NHS back on its feet is the right thing to do, not just for families across the country but for economic growth.”
“At this Budget, the Chancellor chose to freeze rail fares for the first time in 30 years, to extend bus fare caps, to freeze prescription charges, to increase the basic and new state pension, to raise the minimum and living wages, to extend the fuel duty cut, to help more than half a million children who would otherwise live in poverty, and to save the average household £150 off their energy bills. As the Bank of England deputy governor told Members yesterday, this Budget will reduce inflation by between 0.4% and 0.5%. The Chancellor’s final priority going into the Budget was to cut our national debt and Government borrowing, and that is exactly what we are doing.”
“I would take the hon. Gentleman more seriously if he spent a little less time opposing the decisions we take on tax to fund public services, because we are taking fair and necessary decisions on tax precisely to fund the NHS and the other public services on which we all rely. I have set out at length what we are doing to protect the NHS, but the Chancellor’s second priority going into the Budget was to tackle the cost of living, and that is exactly what we are doing.”
“As I have said already, our headroom now stands at £21.7 billion, meeting our stability rule a year early, giving businesses the confidence to invest and leaving Government freer to act when the situation calls for it. Whatever mischief the Conservatives try to make and however personal they make their attacks, the truth is that the Chancellor was clear about the challenges the country faces. She set out her priorities in taking those challenges head-on, and she delivered a Budget that meets the priorities of the British people now and in the future.”
“My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Sorry seems to be the hardest word to say for Opposition Members when it comes to covid fraud, the state in which they left the NHS, the Liz Truss mini-Budget and everything they did to public services and our economy, writing off the next generation and vast swathes of our nation. They should stand up and say sorry. The priority for the Chancellor at the Budget was also to make sure that we cut our national debt and Government borrowing. Because of choices that the Chancellor made at the Budget, borrowing will fall as a share of GDP in every year of this forecast. Net financial debt will be falling as a share of GDP by the end of this Parliament, and will be lower by the end of the forecast than when we came into office.”
“The hon. Gentleman said he feels sorry for me—he needn’t. I am proud to be defending a Labour Budget in this Chamber. Frankly, I might repay the sympathies to him: I feel sorry for him to be stuck on the Opposition Benches, where I fear he may be for a long time. The other point of process in the motion, to which the shadow Chancellor referred in his comments, is speculation ahead of the Budget. Let me start by addressing the premature publication of the “Economic and fiscal outlook”. We know that the EFO is a highly sensitive document, which is obviously not meant to be published until after the Chancellor has finished presenting the Budget to the House. The fact that it was accessed online before she began her Budget speech was a serious matter.”
“I think the hon. Gentleman is incorrect in what he said. He said that I may have implied the premature publication was deliberate; I certainly did not. It is none the less a serious matter, which is why we are responding to it with the commensurate seriousness that it deserves. We know that the OBR rightly took responsibility for this mistake, and soon afterwards—while we were discussing the matter at these Dispatch Boxes last Monday—its chair, Richard Hughes, resigned. That, of course, is a matter for Mr Hughes, and is his decision. The Chancellor wrote to him to thank him for his professionalism and dedication. Many Members and I have made clear our gratitude for his work as a public servant. Nonetheless, it was a serious breach, and the Government are acting with seriousness in response.”
“It is a Budget delivered by a Chancellor who takes challenges head-on, makes the right decisions for our country, and meets the priorities of the British people. It is a Budget from a Government who will not let Britain’s future be defined by the failures of Governments past. This is a Budget that we are proud of, and we reject the Opposition motion.”
“In the meantime, Professor David Miles and Tom Josephs will jointly lead the OBR until the new chair is in place. I am happy to come here every day to explain the decisions that we took in the Budget in the interests of the British people. It is clear that the Conservatives do not want to talk about £150 off energy bills, freezes in prescription charges and rail fares, our investment in our NHS, and the fact that we are cutting debt. They do not want to confront the fact that this is a Budget that not only delivers for Britain, but does so in challenging times. It is a Budget that invests in Britain, supports the NHS, helps people with the cost of living, and gets our debt and borrowing down.”
“That is why, as I have told the House, a leak inquiry is under way, with the full support of the Chancellor and the whole team at the Treasury. In addition, the permanent secretary to the Treasury will conduct a review of its security processes, which will inform future fiscal events. The Budget security review will happen in the new year, and we will publish the outcome once it has concluded. More immediately, however, while recognising the seriousness of what happened with the OBR’s forecast, we remain fully committed to working with an independent OBR, and we recognise its vital role as a core part of our fiscal framework. The Government will soon launch a competitive external recruitment process to appoint a new chair, subject to the consent of the Treasury Committee.”
“My hon. Friend is right to point out that the OBR’s report contains a series of recommendations. It was, in fact, published within a few days of the premature publication. We are acting on its recommendations, including the recommendation that we should determine whether this has happened before, at previous fiscal events. While the OBR indicated that it might have happened earlier this year, at the time of the spring statement, it did not look into previous fiscal events, either under this Chancellor or under Chancellors in the last Government. We are looking into that to find out what happened. More widely, beyond the EFO and the OBR, we put the utmost weight on Budget security, as I told the House last week.”
“As my hon. Friend will know, last year the Government signed a £100 million Falkirk and Grangemouth growth deal with the Scottish Government. At the Budget this year, we further recognised Grangemouth’s centuries of history as a key UK industrial site by announcing additional investment of up to £14.5 million to support industrial projects that can create jobs. Alongside that, the National Wealth Fund is ready to invest £200 million alongside the private sector to help unlock Grangemouth’s full potential and secure our clean energy future.”
“Education and skills policy, including the funding and operation of colleges, is fully devolved to the Scottish Government. That means that it is for Scottish Ministers to decide how to support Forth Valley college with the overall settlement. As my hon. Friend will know, the spending review provided the Scottish Government with their largest settlement in real terms since devolution in 1998, and the Budget provided an additional £820 million to Scotland through the Barnett formula. In the months ahead we will be campaigning to ensure that decisions about how to invest that funding in Scotland’s future will be taken by Anas Sarwar and a Scottish Labour Government.”
“The hon. Member is happy to criticise tax decisions taken by this Government, but where does he think the largest spending review settlement since devolution began came from? Where does he think the £820 million announced at the autumn Budget came from? He needs to support the tax decisions we take if he wants the investment to go into Scotland.”
“The spending review 2025 provided record investment in the NHS, including the largest ever health capital budget. That investment has enabled a reduction in waiting lists of 230,000, with an extra 5.2 million NHS appointments. At autumn Budget 2025, the Chancellor protected NHS investment by allowing it to retain and reinvest efficiency savings in 2028-29, as well as making available up-front funding to abolish NHS England: a move that will unlock £1 billion in savings by the end of the Parliament, which can instead be used to support frontline care.”
“I thank my hon. Friend for his question. Like him, I will always be grateful to the incredible NHS staff who got me back fighting strong after I was diagnosed with a neuromuscular condition in my 20s. People across the country have stories like ours because we all depend on the NHS, and that is why it is such a priority for us as a Government to invest in our health service to get it back on its feet and build an NHS that is fit for the future.”
“My hon. Friend is right to point to the role that pubs play at the heart of local communities—I assume that the pubs and GP surgeries in his example are separate. As my hon. Friend the Exchequer Secretary set out earlier, we are in a situation where the temporary pandemic business rates relief is coming to an end and the new revaluation, which is post pandemic, comes into effect. In that context, we are supporting the high street, including pubs, with permanently lower tax rates for eligible retail, hospitality and leisure, as well as a support package that means most properties seeing increases will see them capped next year at 15% or less, or £800 for the smallest properties.”
“The hon. Member is right to point to the fact that people showing up in hospital can often reflect other social issues, whether homelessness, child poverty or other challenges. As a Government, we take tackling homelessness—by which I mean temporary accommodation and rough sleeping—incredibly seriously and we will publish a homelessness strategy shortly.”
“As the hon. Gentleman will know, the coalition Government, of which his party was a part, slashed capital investment in our health service. We have restored capital investment in our health service, which is critical to getting it back on its feet. If he is requesting greater investment in the NHS, I hope that he will change his mind, correct the record and support the tax changes that we have made in order to make that possible.”
“Growth is the No. 1 mission of this Government, and we are committed to unlocking growth in every corner of this country. We have committed £2.7 billion per year to supporting sustainable farming, £2.3 billion of transport funding for places beyond city regions through the local transport grant, and more than £1.9 billion for gigabit broadband and 4G connectivity. That funding will help to tackle key blockers to growth in rural areas, unlocking the opportunities and benefits of growth for people right across the UK.”
“I welcome the hon. Gentleman drawing attention to the importance of productivity in the UK economy and our prospects for growth. As we know, the Office for Budget Responsibility reviewed the productivity impact of the previous Government’s record in office and found that the decisions they had taken over those 14 years meant that we had a £16 billion revenue hit to the public finances in the target year of the scorecard. We know that means that productivity has been downgraded as a result of decisions taken by the previous Government, but that gives us an opportunity—an opportunity to not be held back by the failures of the previous Government and to exceed those forecasts in future.”
“My hon. Friend and many of his neighbouring MPs are excellent advocates for Cornwall and for the benefits that Cornwall can bring to growth, both in the region and right across the country. I know that, in the Budget, the Chancellor was keen to support investment in future industries in Cornwall. For the local council to deliver that, we will work closely with it to make sure that money is well spent. The key thing for us is to ensure that we enable people in Cornwall to be part of the economic growth mission of this Government.”