Kim Leadbeater
MP for Spen Valley · Labour · United Kingdom
“The right hon. Lady is making a very important point, which I have considered at length during the last two years. Many amendments relating to coercive control were made to the Bill to ensure that all professionals involved have training, and there are multiple checks for coercion throughout the process, which do not currently exist.”
“Q9. Thank you, Mr Speaker, and welcome back. I also welcome the Prime Minister to his role. We have many shared passions—sport, music, and a deep sense of community.”
“The answer must be courage—the courage to listen, the courage to speak responsibly, the courage to reject extremism in all its forms, the courage to defend democratic values even when emotions run high and, most importantly, the courage to remember that we belong to one another.”
“The Brexit referendum was one of the most divisive periods in modern British history. People were encouraged to see each other not as neighbours with differing opinions but as enemies.”
“They are very like Jo in so many ways and they are annoyingly good at everything. They are musical, they are sporty, they are academic and they are really nice human beings. When they come up to Yorkshire, we try to find something that we can beat them at—and we fail every time. They are very much in my thoughts today and every day.”
“Every disagreement becomes moral warfare. We see a growing blame culture in Britain. When the economy struggles, when public services let us down, when communities feel left behind, someone must be blamed— migrants, politicians, the poor, the rich.”
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“I will double-check, but I am pretty confident that those reporting mechanisms are covered elsewhere in the Bill. I am very happy to confirm, but I think they are covered in clauses 7 and 8.”
“I hope that my hon. Friend can take some reassurance from amendment 455, which says that “the Commissioner must consult… the Chief Medical Officer for England” and “the Chief Medical Officer for Wales” when making a report.”
“I beg to move amendment 382, in clause 34, page 20, line 26, leave out “relevant Chief Medical Officer” and insert “Commissioner”. This amendment provides for monitoring, investigation and reporting functions under Clause 34 to be carried out by the Voluntary Assisted Dying Commissioner (instead of the Chief Medical Officers for England and for Wales).”
“Amendment 382 and the consequential amendments provide for monitoring, investigation and reporting functions under clause 34 to be carried out by the voluntary assisted dying commissioner. The commissioner will submit an annual report to the appropriate national authority—Parliament or the Senedd—on the operation of the Act, as set out in amendment 389. The appropriate national authority must publish any report received under this section, prepare and publish a response to any such report, and lay before Parliament or Senedd Cymru a copy of the report and the response. I think the Committee is in agreement about the importance of reporting and monitoring under the Act, and I hope it can support these amendments.”
“I thought the hon. Gentleman was quite keen on a judge, but now maybe less so. I hope he is reassured by amendment 455, which requires the commissioner to consult the chief medical officer. That shows really clear intent for the post to have judicial and medical expertise and oversight.”
“(2A) The Commissioner’s report must include analysis of the following— (a) information about the patients’ diagnosis/es; (b) information about the patients’ prognosis; (c) any instances where concerns were raised about the patients’ capacity; (d) any instances where concerns raised about the patient being coerced; (e) any concerns raised by the multi-disciplinary panel; (f) any concerns raised by family members; (g) and demographic data on the patients, including socioeconomic data, information on protected characteristics; and (h) data obtained from the recording of the consultation.” — (Naz Shah.) This amendment would require reporting under section 34 to include various information on diagnoses, complications, concerns about capacity and other matters . Question put , That the amendment be made.”
“Amendment 220, in clause 34, page 20, line 36, leave out paragraphs (a) and (b) and insert— “(a) a report about the first assessment of a person does not contain a statement indicating that the coordinating doctor is satisfied as to all of the matters mentioned in section 7(2)(a) to (g); (b) a report about the second assessment of a person does not contain a statement indicating that the independent doctor is satisfied as to all of the matters mentioned in section 8(2)(a) to (e);” Amendment 388, in clause 34, page 20, line 40, leave out paragraph (c) and insert— “(c) a panel has refused to grant a certificate of eligibility;” . — (Kim Leadbeater.) This amendment is consequential on NC21. Amendment proposed : 451, in clause 34, page 20, line 43, at end insert— “(e) there were complications in the procedure.”
“As such, I am confident that the reporting mechanisms set up under these provisions provide a thorough oversight for the assisted dying process. Amendment 450 negatived. Amendments made: 387, in clause 34, page 20, line 34, leave out “relevant Chief Medical Officer’s” and insert “annual”. This amendment is consequential on Amendment 382.”
“Furthermore, the amendment ensures that the report will not only cover those protected characteristics, but any other group that may be specified in regulations set by the Secretary of State, which provides the ability to adapt and to ensure that the Bill is applied fairly to all groups as societal needs and considerations evolve. Amendment 455 also ensures that the commissioner consults relevant stakeholders when preparing the annual report, specifically, the chief medical officers for both England and Wales, along with representatives of groups advocating for those with protected characteristics. This collaborative approach ensures that the report is as comprehensive as possible. Of course, the report will also be supported by additional details and regulations, the doctors’ reports, and the review of the Bill as set out in clause 35.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Sir Roger. At the risk of repeating what has already been said before by various members of the Committee, amendments 455 and 456 are important amendments that further strengthen the oversight, transparency and implementation of the Bill, particularly in relation to protected characteristics. Clause 34(1) already establishes the requirement of an annual report to be produced, but amendment 455 goes further by mandating that this report must also include detailed information about how the Bill applies to individuals with protected characteristics. Those are the groups identified in the Equality Act 2010, such as by age, disability, gender reassignment, race, religion and others.”
“My hon. Friend makes a really important point, which I will come to in due course, but the thing that we need to analyse is the operation of the Bill. That will not start with the passing of the Bill; it will start with its commencement. It is important that we join the dots between the relevant clauses.”
“New clause 40 provides that, until the Act is implemented, the Secretary of State must lay a report before Parliament as soon as reasonably practicable after the first anniversary of the Act being passed, with subsequent reports being laid every six months up to full implementation. It is a comprehensive reporting system, and it is really important to look at what we are reporting on. The reality is that the commencement of the Act could be between two and four years, so a five-year review makes sense. Amendment 452 negatived. Amendment proposed : 493, in clause 35, page 21, line 31, leave out “5-year” and insert “3-year”.— (Daniel Francis.) Question put , That the amendment be made.”
“I will speak briefly to this clause, because some of what I say will be covered in our debate on other clauses. The title of the clause is “Review of this Act”, so it is important to be clear about what we are reviewing. I am sure members of the Committee agree that it is the operation of the Act that needs to be considered. As such, it is important to join the dots between the relevant clauses of the Bill and differentiate between the passing of this legislation and the commencement of its provisions. I have tabled amendment 548 to clause 42, “Commencement”, which provides that the commencement of the provisions of the Act could be up to four years beginning with the day on which the Bill is passed. I sincerely hope it is sooner than that, but I have tabled the amendment none the less.”
“On amendment 397, which would require consideration of the impact on people with learning disabilities, we have had this conversation several times with my hon. Friend the Member for Bexleyheath and Crayford. As I have said previously, he makes a very valid point with reference to this cohort of people, and as such I am minded to support the amendment. Question put, That the amendment be made.”
“Amendments 491 and 492 would expand the scope of the report that the Secretary of State must prepare at the end of the initial five-year period to include an assessment of the availability, quality and distribution of appropriate services by including care services and end-of-life care. It is not clear what “care services” would cover, and I am concerned about the broadness of that term and the lack of a clear definition, so I am not minded to support amendment 491. Amendment 492 would expand the population that the assessment will cover to include persons with end-of-life care needs alongside those with palliative care needs. That makes sense and, given the purpose of the Bill, the amendment seems sensible, so I am happy to support it.”
“The first report must be issued one year after the Act is passed, and subsequent reports are due every six months. The sixth and final report marks the conclusion of the reporting period. The new clause is linked to amendment 546, which will ensure that new clause 40 will be brought into force immediately upon the passing of the Bill, making the reporting requirements active right from the start. This provision is crucial for maintaining accountability and for ensuring that Parliament is regularly updated on the progress of the Act’s implementation and that any necessary adjustments or future plans are communicated effectively. It provides a structured timeline to track the implementation of the Act until all provisions are fully operational.”
“I will speak to my new clause 40 and my amendment 546. The purpose of new clause 40 is to establish a requirement for regular reports on the implementation of the Act until all its provisions are fully implemented. This will ensure continuous oversight and transparency regarding the progress of the Act’s implementation. The new clause will mandate the Secretary of State to prepare, publish and lay before Parliament a report on the implementation and progress of the Act as soon as reasonably practicable after each reporting period. The reports must include the progress made on implementing the Act during the reporting period, and the Secretary of State’s plans for implementing the Act in future periods, including an expected timetable for further implementation.”
“It is right that there are some exclusions for witnesses and proxies, as set out in the Bill, but although I have no doubt that amendment 454 comes from a good place, it seems both excessive and impractical to conduct a capacity assessment on witnesses and proxies. They are not the patient who is seeking assistance under the Bill, and the role they have is functional and will be overseen by the co-ordinating doctor. The panel can also ask to hear from them if they wish. As such, I cannot support the amendment.”
“Am I correct in thinking that this is a standard procedure, and it relates to very minor amendments, such as consequential and transitional provisions? It would be used not for any big changes to the Bill but for small amendments, and it would be burdensome to put such small changes before Parliament every time they needed to be made.”
“I beg to move amendment 223, in clause 39, page 23, line 4, after “purposes” insert “, and (b) incidental, consequential, transitional or saving provision.” This is a standard power for regulations to include the power to make incidental, consequential, transitional or saving provision.”
“This is a standard power for regulations to include the power to make incidental, consequential, transitional or saving provision. This is a minor amendment, and it is a standard but vital measure to ensure the legislation works effectively and cohesively.”
“Friend and the Committee have had, I think we are in the right place to enable the courts to ensure that the law is as expansive as possible and to ensure that we do not create a scenario in which certain behaviours from those with mal-intent in relation to the Bill are excluded from its scope. I agree that we should allow the courts to do their job with the broadest possible powers to prosecute offences under the Bill. I echo my hon. Friend’s comments to the Minister about the need for the inclusion of details about these issues in guidance and codes of practice, but I thank the Committee for an extremely useful and productive discussion.”
“It is fair to say that we have had a very valuable discussion on the matters relating to these amendments. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Penistone and Stocksbridge for the considerable amount of hard work that she has put into researching these issues. As always, her approach has been extremely thorough and diligent. I have been on my own journey regarding the need or otherwise to place definitions in the Bill, but having undertaken the valuable discussions we have had through this Committee—I think this genuinely has been the Committee at its best—along with the expert legal input and advice that my hon.”
“I beg to move amendment 392, in clause 40, page 23, line 27, at end insert— “‘first assessment’ has the same meaning as in section 7; ‘first declaration’ has the same meaning as in section 5;”. This is a drafting change.”
“These amendments are drafting changes, but they are important drafting changes, in that they are about the definitions of first assessment, first declaration, second assessment, second declaration and preliminary discussion. They are small but important changes and I hope that the Committee will support them.”
“I will not test the patience of the Committee by repeating the comments of my hon. Friends the Members for Sunderland Central and for Stroud and, indeed, of the Minister. I am comfortable that subsection (4) as it stands is perfectly acceptable on the remuneration that a doctor can receive. I will not support the amendment.”
“The hon. Member is making some interesting points, but they are not related to the point of this amendment, which talks about the doctor being given more money for approving the request. That is not quite the same point that he is making.”
“I beg to move amendment 547, in clause 42, page 24, line 19, at end insert— “(1A) Section (Voluntary Assisted Dying Commissioner), except subsection (4) of that section, and Schedule (The Voluntary Assisted Dying Commissioner) come into force at the end of the period of one year beginning with the day on which this Act is passed.” This amendment provides that the clause and Schedule relating to the Commissioner, except subsection (4) of the clause, come into force one year after Royal Assent.”
“New clause 40, as previously debated, would confer a duty on the Secretary of State to report to Parliament at that 12-month point, and every six months thereafter, until it has been fully implemented. Those are important steps to show progress and to demonstrate accountability and transparency. At lunchtime today I met a group of people—many terminally ill themselves—representing thousands of others who are looking to this Parliament to finally offer them or their loved ones the choice and dignity of a better death. I know, because they have told me, that they are disappointed by this change. I said to them that I would not be making it if I had not been persuaded that it was necessary, but I also said that I will do everything I can to not keep them waiting a moment longer than we absolutely have to.”
“It is clearly important to dedicate the necessary time to implementing these safeguards, but I also know the upset and disappointment that many people will feel about a potentially longer commencement period, so it is with some reluctance that I ask the Committee to support the amendment. As I have said, four years is very much a backstop, not a target. If the Bill receives Royal Assent, I for one—I know that I will not be alone—will hold the Government’s feet to the fire to ensure that its provisions are put in place as quickly as is practicable and safe to do so. To that end, amendment 547 would ensure that the voluntary assisted dying commissioner will be appointed within 12 months of the Bill passing.”
“But I thought then, and still think now, that however difficult it feels at times, this is not a process that should be rushed. It is more important to do this properly than to do it quickly. I am pleased that the Committee has improved the Bill in many ways, and added extra safeguards to what was already the strongest assisted dying legislation in the world—in particular, with the setting up of a new judge-led voluntary assisted dying commission, with multidisciplinary panels to look at every application. Inevitably this will take longer to implement than simply referring cases to the High Court, an institution that already exists. The reporting and monitoring mechanisms and infra-structure, along with the comprehensive training programme that we have rightly discussed at length in Committee, will take time to put together.”
“Under the amendment, that period would now be four years. I cannot pretend that I am not disappointed about extending the commencement period, and I know I am not alone. When I started work on the Bill, I thought, “Gosh, two years to implement it. That is a long time to leave the law uncorrected. How many terminally ill people will face the trauma and expense of travelling to Switzerland or feel they have no alternative but to take their own life or suffer a deeply traumatic death as a result of their illness in that time? How many more families will face the possibility of a police investigation, or have the happy memories of their loved ones tainted by their final weeks or days, due to the impact of their terminal illness?” That sat very heavily with me.”
“Amendment 548 is not one that I had hoped to table, but I recognise that it is necessary. It is important to be clear about what it says and what it does not say. It creates a four-year backstop, meaning that the provisions of the Act must be implemented within four years of Royal Assent. What it does not say is that it cannot be implemented sooner than that, and I hope and believe that it can. A backstop is not a deadline. Hon. Members who have been in this House longer than I have will be very familiar with the idea of a backstop. In this, as in previous contexts, it is not intended as the desired outcome but a form of protection. The Bill as originally drafted stated that, if all its provisions had not been brought fully into force after two years, they would come into force at the end of that period.”
“I hope the hon. Member can acknowledge that the motion voted on in the Senedd was very different from the legislation before this Parliament. I hope that I can reassure her, as I have previously, that I am in contact with the Senedd and will be meeting Welsh Ministers. New clause 37 will hopefully also provide some reassurance on issues around devolution.”
“I recognise the need to prevent the unethical advertising of assisted dying services, especially to avoid commercial exploitation or coercion, but it is essential that we carefully calibrate the clause to ensure that it targets unethical advertising practices without sweeping in legitimate and necessary actions that help people find the care they need in a manner that is lawful and respectful of their autonomy. As such, I am very happy to work with colleagues, including the hon. Member for Reigate, to look at how we can produce something to that effect ahead of Report.”
“Subsection (3) states: “Distributing an advertisement includes transmitting it in electronic form, participating in doing so, and providing the means of transmission.” That is particularly concerning because it could criminalise doctors involved in the process of simply communicating with their patients, such as by sending an email, if they were seen as participating in the distribution of an advert. The intent is clear: we must prevent the unethical advertising of assisted dying services. However, we must ensure that the new clause does not inadvertently hinder access to legal services by criminalising the actions of doctors who are simply making themselves available in accordance with the law. We must not create barriers for those who need the service, nor should we penalise doctors for providing legitimate, legal services.”
“Similarly, as my hon. Friend the Member for Sunderland Central mentioned, the Surrogacy Arrangements Act 1985 prohibits the advertising of surrogacy services. Both Acts are aimed at protecting individuals from misleading or unethical commercial activity. The situation with assisted dying is more complex. The new clause is not about advertising unregulated or unproven services; it is actually about doctors who are offering a legal, regulated service to those who meet the criteria. I therefore have the same concerns as the hon. Member for Solihull West and Shirley.”
“New clause 9 specifically relates to the advertising of assisted dying services. I fully understand the intent behind it—to prevent the unethical advertising of assisted dying services. I thank the hon. Member for West Worcestershire (Dame Harriett Baldwin) for bringing the issue to the Committee’s attention. However, there are important nuances with the new clause as drafted that need to be addressed, to avoid criminalising individuals or organisations simply for providing information that is essential for those seeking access to those services. I have looked into this issue because it is an important point for the Committee to consider. Section 4 of the Cancer Act 1939, a useful reference point, bans advertising for cancer treatment. It prevents the advertising of any treatments, regardless of whether they are evidence-based.”
“I thank the right hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd for tabling the new clause. She has made extremely valuable points, as she has throughout the Committee, about the importance of respect for the Welsh language. I think she is absolutely right. As the Minister said, there are some issues with the drafting, as to what the implications would be, not just in Wales but in England. It is my understanding that Ministers in the Senedd are happy to meet following the Committee’s proceedings, and I am happy to discuss these issues with them as part of our conversations. It is important that the right hon. Member’s thoughts have been put on record, and we need to look at what we can put in the Bill ahead of Report to address her concerns.”
“I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Ipswich for tabling the new clause. I have some concerns around the broad definition of “family member”. I also feel that it would be potentially excessive if there were a coincidental situation in which, tragically, two members of the same family were terminally ill. I worry about the extra burden it would place on them of going through an even more rigorous process when they had both been assessed under the thorough regime of the Bill, including the multidisciplinary panel. However, the point is worth discussing and I welcome the fact that my hon. Friend has raised it.”
“We are entering deeply philosophical territory, which is welcome and has happened several times before during the Committee’s proceedings. As ever, the hon. Member for East Wiltshire has raised some interesting points, but my view is that his new clause should not be in the Bill. We all have our views on how we frame assisted dying and choice at the end of life, but I do not think that assisted dying should be defined—or rather not defined—in this way in the Bill.”
“Public Records Act 1958 12 In Part 2 of the Table in paragraph 3 of the First Schedule to the Public Records Act 1958 (bodies whose records are public records), at the appropriate place insert— ‘The Voluntary Assisted Dying Commissioner.’ House of Commons Disqualification Act 1975 13 In Part 3 of Schedule 1 to the House of Commons Disqualification Act 1975 (offices disqualifying person from membership of House of Commons), at the appropriate place insert— ‘The Voluntary Assisted Dying Commissioner or the Deputy Voluntary Assisted Dying Commissioner.’ Freedom of Information Act 2000 14 In Part 6 of Schedule 1 to the Freedom of Information Act 2000 (public authorities for the purposes of the Act), at the appropriate place insert— ‘The Voluntary Assisted Dying Commissioner.’ Equality Act 2010 15 In Part 1 of Schedule 19 to the Equality Act 2010 (public authorities subject to public sector equality duty), at the end of the group of entries for bodies whose functions relate to health, social care and social security insert— ‘The Voluntary Assisted Dying Commissioner.’”— (Kim Leadbeater.) This new Schedule contains provision about the Voluntary Assisted Dying Commissioner and the Deputy Commissioner.”
“(2) A document purporting to be duly executed under the Commissioner’s seal or signed on the Commissioner’s behalf — (a) is to be received in evidence, and (b) is to be treated as duly executed or signed in that way, unless the contrary is shown.”
“(3) The Comptroller and Auditor General must— (a) examine, certify and report on the statement of accounts, and (b) send a copy of the certified statement and the report to the Secretary of State. (4) The Secretary of State must lay before Parliament each document received under sub-paragraph (3)(b). (5) In this paragraph, “financial year” means— (a) the period beginning with the date on which the Commissioner is established and ending with the second 31 March following that date, and (b) each successive period of 12 months. Application of seal and proof of documents 11 (1) The application of the Commissioner's seal is to be authenticated by the signature of— (a) the Commissioner, or (b) a person who has been authorised by the Commissioner for that purpose (whether generally or specially).”
“(2) The Secretary of State may— (a) provide staff in accordance with arrangements made by the Secretary of State and the Commissioner under paragraph 7; (b) provide premises, facilities or other assistance to the Commissioner. Accounts 10 (1) The Commissioner must— (a) keep proper accounts and proper records in relation to them, and (b) prepare a statement of accounts in respect of each financial year in the form specified by the Secretary of State. (2) The Commissioner must send a copy of each statement of accounts to the Secretary of State and the Comptroller and Auditor General— (a) before the end of August next following the end of the financial year to which the statement relates, or (b) on or before such earlier date after the end of that year as the Treasury may direct.”
“(3) Sub-paragraph (2) does not apply in respect of— (a) the Commissioner’s function under paragraph 2(1) of Schedule (Assisted Dying Review Panels) of making appointments to the list of persons eligible to be panel members; (b) the Commissioner’s function of determining applications for reconsideration under section (Reconsideration of panel decisions refusing certificate of eligibility). Financial and other assistance from the Secretary of State 9 (1) The Secretary of State may— (a) make payments to the Commissioner of such amounts as the Secretary of State considers appropriate; (b) give such financial assistance to the Commissioner as the Secretary of State considers appropriate.”
“Staff: general 8 (1) Before appointing staff under paragraph 6 or making arrangements under paragraph 7(1), the Commissioner must obtain the approval of the Secretary of State as to the Commissioner’s policies on— (a) the number of staff to be appointed or seconded; (b) payments to be made to or in respect of staff; (c) the terms and conditions on which staff are to be appointed or seconded. (2) A function of the Commissioner may be carried out by any of the Commissioner’s staff to the extent authorised by the Commissioner (but this is subject to sub-paragraph (3)).”
“(5) The Employers’ Liability (Compulsory Insurance) Act 1969 does not require insurance to be effected by the Commissioner. Staff: secondment to Commissioner 7 (1) The Commissioner may make arrangements for persons to be seconded to the Commissioner to serve as members of the Commissioner's staff. (2) The arrangements may include provision for payments by the Commissioner to the person with whom the arrangements are made or directly to seconded staff (or both). (3) A period of secondment to the Commissioner does not affect the continuity of a person's employment with the employer from whose service he or she is seconded.”
“Remuneration 5 The Secretary of State may pay to, or in respect of, the person holding office as the Commissioner or Deputy Commissioner— (a) remuneration; (b) allowances; (c) sums by way of or in respect of pensions. Staff: appointed by Commissioner 6 (1) The Commissioner may appoint staff. (2) Staff are to be appointed on terms and conditions determined by the Commissioner. (3) The terms and conditions on which a member of staff is appointed may provide for the Commissioner to pay to or in respect of the member of staff— (a) remuneration; (b) allowances; (c) sums by way of or in respect of pensions. (4) In making appointments under this paragraph, the Commissioner must have regard to the principle of selection on merit on the basis of fair and open competition.”
“(3) A person may not be appointed as the Commissioner or Deputy Commissioner if a relevant appointment of them has been made on two occasions. ‘Relevant appointment’ here means appointment as the Commissioner or Deputy Commissioner. (4) The Commissioner or Deputy Commissioner may resign by giving written notice to the Secretary of State. (5) The Secretary of State may by notice in writing remove a person from the office of Commissioner or Deputy Commissioner if satisfied that the person— (a) has behaved in a way that is not compatible with their continuing in office, or (b) is unfit, unable or unwilling to properly discharge their functions.”