Lewis Atkinson
MP for Sunderland Central · Labour · United Kingdom
“That will presumably be returning next July, so I want to extend an early invite to all Members and the future Member for Clacton not just to enjoy our beautiful coast but to help ensure that all rubbish from day-trippers to Roker and Seaburn is properly disposed of—in the bin.”
“Friend the Member for Tynemouth (Sir Alan Campbell), is an ardent fan of Europe, so I am sure he will join me in wishing Sunderland AFC well for the season ahead. I specifically want to mention the contribution of David Bruce, who recently departed as the club’s chief business officer.”
“Mrs Helen Smith has been teaching at St Anthony’s girls’ Catholic academy for more than 30 years, including as head of sixth form and leading the A-level politics programme.”
“I am, however, still deeply saddened—angry, even—that that grant has not been used by the council to prevent the recent closure of the Basis homeless drop-in centre, and that no alternative provision has been put in place.”
“In the last year, Sunderland has shown that it is truly a city on the up. A new hospital, library, bridge, construction skills academy, offices and housing are all open or opening soon—all secured under a Labour council—and there are investment plans in place for the Crown Works film studio, expansion of the Metro to Washington and much m…”
“Fulwell community library, which is run by a fantastic team of volunteers led by Richard Beck, provides a welcoming space for people to enjoy books and a cuppa, as I did there the other week.”
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“If we look at the evidence of suicide, we know that it is increased in people with serious illnesses, but it is actually increased in the first six months after diagnosis, not in the last six months of their lives, so it is about the trauma of the diagnosis. What we need for that is better mental health services, better support around diagnosis and earlier palliative care. The other piece of evidence that I would offer to you is that the global picture of what happens to suicide rates after assisted dying legislation is introduced is confusing and mixed. But there are jurisdictions, for instance Germany, where after the introduction of assisted dying legislation the incidence of suicide has gone up year on year. I do not think we can say that introducing assisted dying legislation will stop those suicides.”
“Q I think around 650 people with a terminal illness currently take their own lives a year. If we see a success with the Bill, I wonder whether there would be a reduction of that number going forward. Do you think that could be incorporated in monitoring going forward? Do you think there are opportunities to avoid that suffering? People are clearly experiencing traumatic deaths at the moment. Dr Cox: It is really difficult to know how many people who die by suicide because of their terminal illness would instead access assisted dying, and it is really difficult to understand the impact of assisted dying legislation on that.”
“You have to think very carefully about what purpose any form of this oversight is actually serving societally, if the oversight panel, whether that be a judge or a panel, cannot decline to approve an application if it considers that the reason the individual is seeking assistance in dying is because of service provision failures by the statutory bodies responsible for meeting their health and social care needs. That is a question of principle, and I want to make sure that that is squarely before you.”
“Sir Nicholas Mostyn: That is what I had in mind—the Official Solicitor looking at the retired judges. Sir Max Hill: Yes, so there is legal professional capacity among the retired judges—not that they would sit alone on a panel. It would bring with it the extra benefit of having suitably qualified medical professionals, like the Spanish model. So yes, I think that could be done. That is not the same thing as saying that the High Court approval model is fatally flawed and could not be introduced, but I do think there is a viable alternative, which is worth looking at. Alex Ruck Keene: I have only one observation, and I said this in my written evidence but I also want to say it out loud.”
“But there is therefore merit in looking at clause 12, under the heading, “Court approval”, and performing quite a simple exercise, which for me would be going through subsections (1) to (6) inclusive and, where it says “High Court”, replace that with something else. Personally, I have an aversion to the word “tribunal”, which indicates a right and wrong or some kind of fault-based system—that is not what we are talking about here. But a panel, as Nick said, is the way to go— Sir Nicholas Mostyn : A panel appointed by the Official Solicitor. Sir Max Hill: Whether appointed by the Official Solicitor or not. Dare I say it—because I am sitting next to a very distinguished one—I do wonder about the recently retired members of the judiciary and the role that they could play under a replacement panel system.”
“That is worth remembering. Secondly, while I am not a family lawyer—I was, but a very long time ago—I think that the family division of the High Court would be very well-placed to perform the sort of exercise enshrined in current drafting, which is not a rubber-stamping exercise, but a substantive consideration of heavily objective medical opinion arrived at by not one, but two doctors, one of whom is not the treating doctor. I listen to and accept the question of pressure on the justice system generally. That is something the Committee will be concerned about because, if the Bill passes, we want something workable. I heed what Sir James Munby said. The sitting judiciary, for good constitutional reasons, is highly unlikely to say anything.”
“Q We have heard from two witnesses—you, Sir Nicholas, and Dr Ahmedzai from the earlier panel—on the question of judicial oversight. While we have you here, Sir Max and Mr Ruck Keene, what are your observations on the proposals from those two witnesses that an alternative to a High Court judge overseeing the process would be some form of panel or tribunal, potentially multidisciplinary? What is your view on that and the legal implications for that? Sir Max Hill: I would say two things. First, it bears weight that, looking at all the provisions in the Bill, the additional level of scrutiny currently being called judicial scrutiny or approval is absent in all the comparative examples around the world. That already makes this a tighter pre-legislative model than we see in other countries that have gone down this route.”
“I agree with my hon. Friend the Member for Spen Valley. Having agreed to extend the time on Thursday to hear devolution issues and from the Royal College of General Practitioners and the Royal College of Psychiatrists, by adding two further witnesses, the amendment to the amendment would reduce the time available on those options. In an ideal world we would like to hear from all sorts of people. The option of written evidence is available. We have got other evidence, and I want to ensure that Thursday’s session is focused on the proposals that my hon. Friend has made.”
“Gentleman acknowledges happens in Select Committees and other forums where there is discussion about witnesses, how to call them and so on, I suggest that we spend a little bit of time in private to do so too, before agreeing—I hope with a level of consensus across this Committee—to return in public and to operate in public scrutiny as the hon. Gentleman suggests is appropriate. I support the motion to sit in private for the consideration of these specific matters in initial discussion and then I support returning to public, as my hon. Friend the Member for Spen Valley has indicated, so that we can be subject to the right public scrutiny for the decisions that we make today.”
“Friend’s motion and indeed by the alternative motion in the name of the hon. Member for East Wiltshire—for them to attend at a specific time and at a specific place. I gently say to the hon. Gentleman that the Committee would do well to have a conversation in private about the individual availability and suitability of some witnesses. The motion set out on the amendment paper to sit in private is to consider “matters related to the sittings motion”, not the sittings motion itself. My hon. Friend the Member for Spen Valley has clearly indicated that we will return to sit in public for the formal proceedings, which I support. That means that the hon. Member for East Wiltshire and any others who wish to place on record their observations can do so then. In the same way that the hon.”
“I, like you, Sir Roger, hope that we can spend the next five or six weeks in the spirit of collaboration and that we do not get bogged down in procedural wrangling. We need to work across the Committee to get the best procedure we can. The hon. Member for East Wiltshire made several points, including the precedent for private Members’ Bills. The relevant point here is that this private Member’s Bill is unique already by the fact that the lead Member, my hon. Friend the Member for Spen Valley, has agreed to take evidence—unlike in any other private Member’s Bill. Therefore, in some cases there may be a need to discuss the sensitivity of individual witnesses’ availability and personal circumstances. We cannot agree as a Committee just by calling witnesses in the abstract. We have to agree—as is outlined by my hon.”
“Friend, Kim Leadbeater, for the flexibility she has already shown today in adding names, and for the spirit that she has shown so far. The fact is that all these individuals may give written evidence that we will all consider. I am in favour of us moving on, getting our evidence sessions done and making progress, and dealing with the detail of the Bill, rather than using the selection of witnesses to try to relitigate the Second Reading debate.”
“As the Bill makes amply clear, no medical professional or health professional here will be under any obligation to participate in the system here. Therefore, in order for this Committee to do the serious work of making sure that the Bill is as robust and workable as possible, we need to hear overwhelmingly from people involved in this practice in other jurisdictions, to benefit from their expertise. We do not need to hear from people from other jurisdictions who are, in principle, opposed to this practice. Why would it be appropriate to remove the evidence of a palliative care physician involved in this practice in favour of a head of infectious diseases, whose relevance I do not see because they are not engaged in this practice? That just highlights my point. I commend my hon.”
“I agree with the comments of the hon. Member for Harrogate and Knaresborough. The hon. Member for East Wiltshire said at the start that the purpose of this Committee was not to relitigate the principle of the vote that we had on Second Reading. Yet in his comment just now, he talked about weighing up the numbers in favour or against, which entirely suggests that the issue of witness evidence selection exists in his head and that he is relitigating matters. I come to the issues around the Australian amendment—amendment (f). Of course the expertise will come from people who are participating in the system. By definition, they are not ethically opposed to it, because if they were opposed to it on the basis of conscience, they would not be participating in the system in Australia.”
“There are undoubtedly positive aspects of age-appropriate online services—giving children opportunities to explore the world, connecting with others who share interests and extending peer support options—but as the level of public concern recognises, it is beyond doubt that there has been significant exposure of many children to online harms, and that the action in response to that has not yet been sufficient or fast enough to meet the challenges.”
“What I hope will become clear in this debate is that recent changes to the law, the implementation of those changes and the response of social media companies are not yet sufficient, and further change is needed to help bereaved parents such as Ellen. The petition attracted 126,000 signatures. That is a testament to Ellen’s campaigning efforts and the public’s concern about these issues. Online services such as social media, streaming and messaging are now features of everyday life, including children’s lives.”
“Member for Cheltenham (Max Wilkinson), is here, as is my hon. Friend the Member for Darlington (Lola McEvoy), who has been working with Ellen on this issue. I look forward in particular to their contributions, which I know will provide further insight and will rightly ensure that Ellen’s own words are on the parliamentary record. Since Jools’ death in 2022, the law and practice related to social media data has changed in several ways, most notably through the Online Safety Act 2023. The changes were secured in large part thanks to the efforts of the Bereaved Families for Online Safety group, other members of which are also here today; I pay tribute to their work.”
“I beg to move, That this House has considered e-petition 661407 relating to children’s social media accounts. It is a pleasure to serve with you in the Chair, Mr Twigg. It is a privilege to have the opportunity to open this important debate as a member of the Petitions Committee. I start by paying tribute to the petitioners and in particular the petition creator, Ellen Roome, who I had the honour of meeting as part of my preparations for this debate and who is in the Gallery today. Ellen’s son, Jools, died in April 2022. Since then, she has been a determined campaigner not just to get access herself to Jools’ social media data to help understand the circumstances of his death, but also to secure a future in which other bereaved parents do not face the situation that she has. I welcome that Ellen’s MP, the hon.”
“They state that data protection legislation prohibits them from releasing any data they hold that would give parents like Ellen the answers they deserve. I find this inconsistency of interpretation from online services at best troubling and at worst suspicious, given the historical behaviours of some social media companies that were involved in minimising—and indeed covering up—evidence of the impact of online harm. I believe it is incumbent on all online services to use their considerable resources to push the existing law as far as they can, and to find a way to release data to bereaved families.”
“It cannot be right that this is necessary. Some online services say that without a change in the law, they cannot legally release data to bereaved parents like Ellen, but what has struck me in preparation for the debate is that there is not a consensus on the current legal situation. The online safety and data protection expert, John Carr, told me that he did not believe that the general data protection regulations necessarily limited the release of children’s usage data to bereaved parents. Snap, the provider of Snapchat, told me that it already, on a case-by-case basis, discloses usage data to a parent who is the successor to a deceased child. Other online services—including some of the most prominent social media services used by young people, such as TikTok—seem to take a different interpretation of the law.”
“The Online Safety Act 2023 made important provisions for Ofcom and coroners to access social media in relevant cases following a child’s death, in turn helping bereaved families. It is welcome that the current Government’s Data (Use and Access) Bill, which is making its way through Parliament, strengthens those powers and the requirements for data retention so that the risks of data loss in such cases are reduced. However, the provisions do not have retrospective mechanisms, and are therefore not sufficient for historical cases, such as Jools’, where the coronial process has already concluded. As a result, Ellen is in the situation where she has to try and crowdfund a significant sum of money for legal action to get Jools’ inquest re-run, so that the coroner can use the powers now available in law to access Jools’ social media data.”
“In preparing for this debate, I spoke with SLOW, or Surviving the Loss of Your World—a charity that offers bereavement support for parents following the loss of a child. The charity emphasised to me the absolute necessity, as part of the grieving process, of establishing an understanding of what led to death. By being denied data about Jools’ online activity before his death, Ellen has been denied the ability to grieve as she wishes. The petition recognises that it cannot be right that a grieving mother is forced to go through years of campaigning and investigation to try to get answers about her son’s death. I urge everyone—especially those working in social media companies—to reflect on the evident injustice of the situation, and to commit to finding a way to do the right thing: to give Ellen the information and answers she needs.”
“It is clearly the responsibility of online services to implement and expand such measures, and I hope for rapid progress in that area as a key part of online services’ work to improve children’s safety online in partnership with parents. I now turn to the issue of bereaved parents’ access to social media data, which is the specific issue for which Ellen has been campaigning, because she is still not able to access data about Jools’ use of online services before his death. I cannot begin to imagine the anguish of losing a child and, even more so, not being given information that might help a parent to understand the circumstances of their child’s death. We rightly talk about laws, protections and rights, but we do not talk enough as a society about the right—indeed, the need—to grieve a loss, especially one as painful as the loss of child.”
“The petitioners themselves have reflected on such matters, and although they remain determined to support parents to keep their kids safe online, there is a recognition that establishing an overarching parental right to access the data of living teenagers is unlikely to be the appropriate way forward. Instead, it appears to me that parental oversight of a child’s social media use should rather be achieved through strengthening and significantly increasing the uptake of parental controls and other specifically designed arrangements that children and their parents agree to together, as part of the sign-up processes for online services.”
“Such rights are important not just as abstract concepts but because, as I have heard, older children sometimes need private online spaces to help them to explore the world—for example, a teenager understanding their own sexuality before they wish to share it with their parents. We also know that, sadly, in some horrible cases, parents are themselves perpetrators of abuse against their children. Establishing a blanket right to access children’s online activity would remove an important safe route for children to seek support and alert others in such cases.”
“First, the petitioners call for parental access to social media when children are alive. I understand the instinct behind this call—the instinct to directly monitor what a child is doing online in order to protect them from the harms to which I have referred. However, in the course of preparing for the debate, I heard clearly from multiple perspectives, including children’s charities such as the NSPCC, that broad, overarching parental rights to children’s social media would not be appropriate. Of course, given that the minimum age of use should be 13, we are talking about teenagers. Children—teenagers—do have long-established rights to privacy, as set out by the UN convention on the rights of the child, and established UK law and practice in a range of areas reflects and recognises that.”
“It is important to note, as context for today’s debate, that the law does not allow online services to collect or store the personal information of children under the age of 13. As a result, most popular services require users to be at least 13 years of age, but enforcement of that requirement has historically been lax. The age-assurance requirements in the Online Safety Act must be implemented without delay. I know that hon. Members will want to touch on various elements of the approaches to social media regulation, but in parallel to the wider debate about content regulation, the petitioners are clear that there are specific issues about parental access that warrant a response in their own right, from both social media companies and the Government, so I want to focus my remarks, and I hope this debate, on those specific questions.”
“I agree that social media companies rightly face regulation; I will talk a little more about that later. There is, rightly, debate and campaigning in the media and elsewhere—we saw some of that over the weekend—about the level of regulation of online content that children may access online, whether that is illegal content or legal but harmful content. Although the regulation of content itself is not the focus of today’s debate, as a concerned parent myself, I am impatient for online services to take proper responsibility for what our children see. Social media companies must not shy away from their responsibilities to protect children, either because of misguided free speech concerns or out of concern about their levels of profit.”
“I ask the Minister and the Government: what scope is there for stating clearly in law that, so long as due care is taken on a case-by-case basis, the release of data to bereaved parents is permitted? Could the data Bill be amended to include a clarification to remove, once and for all, the claim of some companies that they are prohibited from giving parents like Ellen the data and answers they deserve? Are there any other steps the Minister believes could be taken to right this injustice? I look forward to hearing the perspectives of colleagues and the Government’s response to this important debate.”
“I agree that legislative action has been necessary, as the Online Safety Act shows, and indeed, there are provisions on this in the current data Bill. The issue is that there is a lack of clarity; under the existing law, some social media companies seem to be finding a way of doing the right thing while others are not. I will come to the hon. Member’s point when I ask a couple of questions of the Government. I can assure the social media companies—in the event that they carefully do the right thing, on a case-by-case basis, and then face data protection questions from regulators in response—that they will find allies across Parliament in defending their actions.”
“Question put and agreed to. Resolved, That this House has considered e-petition 661407 relating to children’s social media accounts.”
“I invite them to demonstrate that they genuinely want to do the right thing—to get in touch and do the right thing for bereaved parents like Ellen; not to hide behind data protection regulations; and to actively engage with policymakers and families to get this right, to allow children to be protected and, in tragic cases when a child has died, to give parents the opportunity to grieve properly. I thank the Petitions Committee staff for their assistance in organising and preparing the debate, which it has been an honour to lead. It is right that I use the final words of the debate to pay tribute to the 126,000 petitioners, and in particular to Ellen Roome: may Jools’ memory always be a blessing, and I sincerely hope that today’s debate helps you and other bereaved families get the data and the answers that you need.”
“I particularly welcome her indication that the Government will give consideration to any potential changes to the forthcoming data Bill to put it beyond doubt that, in historic cases such as Jools’, parents have rights to access data following bereavement and that the powers that have been set out to coroners can be applied without undue financial penalty or campaigning by parents like Ellen. Of course, the people that we have not heard from today are the social media companies, although I am sure they are listening to us all.”
“I thank Members from across the House for their contributions to this well attended and powerful debate. We have demonstrated significant consensus across the House about the need to continue to strengthen and evolve online regulation, which, as the petition shows, is a matter of significant public concern. I think it is fair to say that the public expect Parliament to work on a cross-party basis on these issues, and I hope that in future months we can continue the debate in the spirit in which it has been conducted today. I thank the Minister for her response.”
“Sunderland was recently named the UK’s smartest city by The Times . It was a pleasure to welcome the Secretary of State when he visited recently. More than 5,000 homes in our city now have assistive technology installed, supporting the independence of older and disabled people and improving their access to care. How do the Government plan to build on the example of Sunderland to improve access to public services across the UK?”
“As a member of a forces family, I welcome the Government’s landmark decision to renationalise service housing. For too long, military families have been living in substandard accommodation. How will the Minister ensure that this investment leads to tangible improvements? In what timescales can our servicemen and servicewomen expect to see those improvements start?”
“The hon. Gentleman worked in the NHS before covid, as did I. He mentions the impact of covid, but does he not recall that in December 2019, before covid hit, standards had already fallen, and only 84% of patients were being treated within the 18 week target? Why was that allowed to happen under the previous Government?”
“I thank the Minister for her statement, and also thank my recent former NHS colleagues, especially those in Sunderland, for what they will be doing over the winter. The Minister has rightly highlighted unacceptable levels of bed occupancy as we go into winter; we know that as bed occupancy increases to unacceptable levels, there is a rise in patient safety risks. What assessment has she made of the patient safety monitoring regime over the winter, linked to those risks?”
“It is no small thing for a Secretary of State to stand up with the sincerity that my right hon. Friend has and to offer an apology on behalf of the Government and accept maladministration, and I know she takes that responsibility seriously. I understand her position regarding the 90% of women who knew the pension age was going to change, but among the 10% who did not realise, people made individual decisions about their financial circumstances. Will she say more about why she did not feel that it was possible to put an individualised compensation scheme in place for that 10%?”
“Does the hon. Gentleman accept that every day in the NHS patients refuse treatment, and indeed food, and that there is currently legal oversight in respect of coercion and other such matters? Would the Bill not strengthen protections in those areas?”
“Q9. Antisocial behaviour involving modified and off-road bikes is a menace, and has a huge impact on communities such as mine in Sunderland. Although I welcome the work that Northumbria police does in partnership with our council, they need stronger powers and more resources. Can the Prime Minister outline how he will back the police to tackle the misery caused by intimidating and downright dangerous antisocial behaviour on bikes?”
“To deliver effective policing, we need reform, but police officers also need to feel that they have our support. Does the Minister agree that agreeing the recommendations of the pay review body is a key part of delivering that support? What view does she have about those, including Conservative Members, who would prefer not to agree those recommendations, and on the impact that would have on police morale?”
“Under the previous Conservative Government, many eligible pensioners in Sunderland Central did not receive the pension credit that they were due. When I speak to organisations such as Age UK Sunderland, they tell me that that was often because people did not know how and whether to claim. How many pensioners are now taking up pension credit thanks to the actions taken by this Government?”
“The hon. Gentleman will recall that in the 2022 spring Budget, the Conservative party increased national insurance for employers by 1.25%, and he supported that. Can he explain why he was in favour of it then but opposes it now, even though we have introduced increased employment allowances that counteract the change?”
“It is in that spirit that I recognise the privilege of being in the House on behalf of our entire community. I will do what I can to serve them and repay the trust they have placed in me.”
“It might be a show at the Sunderland Empire, a meal at one of our many excellent British-Bangladeshi restaurants, or a gig at one of our independent venues. Where passion and identity are strong, there is music—and Sunderland is a music city. Having produced talent from Dave Stewart to the gone-too-soon Faye Fantarrow, our city’s artists reflect who we are, honour our proud heritage and point towards our bright future as an inclusive city. Nowadays, we celebrate that Mackems are found in mosques and churches, our community centres, our gurdwara and our social clubs, and now there are even two Mackems in the Cabinet. All my constituents, no matter what their background, deserve a strong economy and quality public services. Because Sunderland was built on hard work, its people rightly expect nothing less from their politicians.”
“I also celebrate the workers at the most productive car plant in Europe, Nissan, which although not in my constituency is the modern cornerstone of our city’s economy, continuing our advanced manufacturing heritage and skills. Elsewhere around the city, where there was previously decline we now see new beginnings. On the banks of the Wear, we no longer have shipyards, but we do have the Crown Works studio site, ready to be transformed into a landmark film studio. Where the brewery once stood, we have cranes in the sky for Riverside Sunderland, the most ambitious city centre regeneration project in the UK. We have our excellent university, with particular strengths in media and healthcare, and we have a city that loves a good time, where growing hospitality and cultural businesses provide plenty of decent days and nights.”
“While the bravery and fortitude of Sunderland’s people has never been lacking, too often they have faced the headwinds of economic change without a Government on their side. By the end of my childhood, the pits, the shipyards and even Vaux had all gone. But the people’s spirit and an understated determination remained, and it is thanks to them that our city is now on the up. I am not just referring to top-of-the-Championship Sunderland AFC, a football club that has provided me with more agony and ecstasy than even the Labour party has managed. Our Stadium of Light stands on the site of the Monkwearmouth colliery, but now instead of coal we produce a rich seam of talented players, such as Jill Scott, Jordan Pickford, Lucy Bronze and Chris Rigg.”
“At our peak, the people of Sunderland were hard at work “macking” a quarter of all ships produced globally each year, and we were likely dubbed “Mackems” as a result. Wealth from shipyards and pits built Sunderland, but such work often caused a thirst, so it was handy that the most popular stout in the country was produced in the centre of town, at the Vaux brewery, until the second world war interrupted production. In that war, as in others before and since, the patriotic people of Sunderland answered their country’s call. This weekend, I will be honoured to play a small part in what is thought to be one of the largest Remembrance services outside London, reflecting the high number of veterans in our city and the sacrifices made by so many, including my constituents who served in Iraq and Afghanistan.”
“The link between inequalities of health, wealth and power has been impressed upon me by the privilege of working for two decades in NHS North East. Whether managing dentistry, mental health or cancer services, I saw at first hand how the poorest generally experience the poorest health outcomes. I intend to spend some of my time in this place working to right that situation. The qualities of innovation and hard work have always been the building blocks of Sunderland’s economy. From the introduction of glassmaking in Britain at Bede’s monastery of St Peter’s, through the education of lightbulb inventor Joseph Swan, to becoming the UK’s leading digital smart city, Sunderland has always been a home of innovation. We have always made things. For 600 years, that meant ships.”