Lisa Smart
MP for Hazel Grove · Liberal Democrat · United Kingdom
“Those warnings have now come to fruition as thousands of retired civil servants have experienced delays or complete failures in pension payments since Capita took over.”
“That, hopefully, will provide further useful clarity for those who may thus far have been confused about what they do and do not have to declare.”
“What the Minister has announced today will close loopholes, but too many will remain. Will she consider exploring the benefits of a cap on donations from UK donors, and year-round spending caps by political parties and candidates? That is the way in which loopholes are truly closed.”
“I am grateful to the Minister for advance sight of his statement. The failure of Capita to meet the 30 June deadline is deeply disappointing, but, sadly, not surprising.”
“I am grateful to the Minister for advance sight of her statement. Just over five months ago, I stood here and asked the Secretary of State to strengthen the Representation of the People Bill by ensuring that post-tax profits, not overall revenue, were used when assessing the eligibility of company donations.”
“Although there are currently some restrictions in place, they do not go far enough—for example, MPs are strictly banned from acting as parliamentary strategists, advisers or consultants, That clearly recognises that having a second job can contradict our role as MPs, but it is not a full solution.”
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“They provide a sanctuary of peace amid a busy world. The principal reservoir that feeds the Peak Forest canal is Toddbrook. As a result of damage to the reservoir back in 2019, a key source of water for the canals has not been available of late. The CRT is currently working on a project to restore the reservoir, but without support from the Government, and increased funding to ensure that reservoirs are kept in good working condition, the water scarcity that we have experienced this year could result in more closures of canals and waterways in the future.”
“This year, the CRT deemed that restrictions in my area, like in the area covered by the hon. Member for Shipley (Anna Dixon), did not go far enough to conserve water, so it stopped boat movements on the Macclesfield and Peak Forest canals over the summer. As well as the challenges of a changing climate, there is an increasingly demanding regulatory framework, ageing and deteriorating infrastructure, inflation, higher construction costs and a reduction in Government funding. Without funding changes, I fear that such closures are sadly likely to occur more often. That will have a dire effect on not only the people who live and work on the waterways, but those who visit the canals for their benefits for physical and mental health. For many in my constituency, the canals are an escape from traffic pollution and noise.”
“This year, as the CRT told me, we experienced the driest spring in England for 132 years, the driest February to August in England since 1976, and the third driest March to August period on record overall for England, followed by the hottest summer since records began in 1884, according to the Met Office. During dry seasons, low water levels can cause the canal banks to become unstable, leading to structural damage, erosion and, if left unaddressed, the eventual collapse of the canal. Therefore, it is essential that water levels are managed and maintained to ensure the stability and functionality of canals. When drought conditions are faced, restrictions are placed on boat movements to make the existing water in the canal system go as far as possible.”
“I am grateful to the hon. Lady. I agree strongly that keeping our canals moving is hugely important when we are thinking about how we manage our waterways, how we manage traffic on them, and how we keep them and preserve them for future generations. Similarly to what the hon. Lady has described, because of a combination of drought and work that the Canal and River Trust had to conduct on some of their large raised reservoirs in line with the requirements of the Reservoirs Act 1975, many reservoirs in my area were drawn down last winter to permit legally required works to take place. As a result, the reservoirs started the year with a lower volume of water.”
“The Minister mentioned the review and said that it is under way. He did not mention how long it will take, and I note that the hon. Member for South West Devon (Rebecca Smith) asked for some guidance on the timeline. I would be grateful if he could give that and, further, if he could use his good offices to encourage local authorities to let potential self-employed adopters know that their discretionary funds exist because, as the hon. Lady mentioned, most do not.”
“What will it take for the Government to rethink their red lines and protect the British people from further bullying from the White House, by agreeing a bespoke UK-EU customs union with our European neighbours?”
“Following threats from Donald Trump, earlier this week the Government announced that between £3 billion and £6 billion each year will be diverted from our NHS services into the pockets of pharmaceutical giants. The American Health Secretary, Robert F. Kennedy Jr., said the agreement shows Trump’s “courage and leadership in demanding these reforms” and that he puts Americans first. That will give no comfort to my Hazel Grove constituents, who rightly value our NHS and want to see it thrive. Does the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster agree that we are more isolated from our European allies following Brexit, making us far too vulnerable to the threat of American tariffs?”
“Friend the Member for Surrey Heath (Dr Pinkerton) will move next Wednesday, which sets a path towards a bespoke EU-UK customs union—”
“I note the right hon. Gentleman’s response. It may well be good for the pharma industry; my question was whether it is good for the NHS. Just four days ago, the Prime Minister said that the Brexit deal “significantly hurt our economy” and that we have to keep moving towards a closer relationship with the EU. I agree with the Prime Minister. A clear and welcome step for jobs and growth would be to create a bespoke customs union with the EU. The Liberal Democrats want to cut unnecessary red tape, support British businesses and deliver sustainable long-term economic growth. I am sure the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster does, too. I agree with his earlier comment that what happens in this House matters, so will he at least agree not to block his colleagues on the Government Benches from backing the ten-minute rule Bill that my hon.”
“I am sure the Minister agrees that trust in our politics, and trust in our democracy, is absolutely vital. I am also sure she will regret that postponing elections gives some, including those who do not have our country’s best interests at heart, the opportunity to try to sow seeds of distrust. This morning she will have seen the Electoral Commission’s latest stats, which show some eye-wateringly large donations. Our elections are not being fought on an even footing if they can be bought by a small handful of individuals. Will she encourage the Minister for Democracy to use the opportunity of the elections Bill to take meaningful steps to increase transparency and clarity, and to tighten up the financial donation rules, in order to restore trust in our democracy?”
“I am sure that the Leader of the House shares my alarm at the most recent stats from the Office for National Statistics showing that suicide rates are at their highest since the turn of the century, which bears out what I am hearing from my local mental health trust. Might he have a conversation with a Health Minister and encourage them to come to the Dispatch Box to update the House on the Government’s approach to suicide prevention and, in particular, what more can be done to support the work of those at the coalface, such as the wonderful Stockport Samaritans, as they undertake their lifesaving work?”
“If he will not do that today, I wonder whether he might give us a date in the diary—say, a week before the Prime Minister’s visit to Beijing; that may well coincide with the date of an announcement on the planning permission for the mega-embassy—and give the House the clarity that it deserves.”
“The seriousness of the threat that Beijing poses to our national security cannot be overstated. Any attempt by China to interfere in our democracy must be rooted out, and the Government should implement the recommendations of the Committee’s report as a matter of urgency. The work that the National Security Adviser and his deputy are doing is vital to keeping our country safe, but the report is damning, and it describes aspects of the situation as “shambolic”. The Minister has previously mentioned his plans for new powers to counter foreign interference, and I would be grateful if he could provide a timeline for their introduction. Let me once again urge the Minister to place China on the enhanced tier of the foreign influence registration scheme.”
“If so, will they consider making a multi-year funding guarantee to offer adoptive families and—let us face it—some of the country’s most vulnerable children greater certainty about future support?”
“I am an adoptive auntie, and I know the power that comes to young children when they are in a stable, loving family and the impact that that can have on their lives. One of my constituents from Romiley tells me that despite a likely diagnosis of foetal alcohol spectrum disorder for two of her three adopted children, their therapy funding will soon come to an abrupt end, and there is no clarity on whether it will be extended. The only way she can see for her family and for many others like them to achieve safety, security and certainty for their children is through that support. Will the Minister update the House on whether they plan to extend the adoption and special guardianship support fund?”
“Over the summer, my team and I conducted a health survey across my constituency, and 40% of those living in the most deprived and most urban parts of my patch—Heaviley, Little Moor and Great Moor—were struggling to access GPs. What more can the Secretary of State do to ensure that urban and deprived communities get their fair share of GP access?”
“I will close with a quote from the UNESCO world heritage convention: “Heritage is our legacy from the past, what we live with today, and what we pass on to future generations. Our cultural and natural heritage are both irreplaceable sources of life and inspiration.” I am sure we can all agree with that.”
“It is the job of us all, across Government Departments and more widely, to protect our heritage and cultural landscapes. It cannot be right that we celebrate the Lake district on the one hand—it is described as a place of “exceptional beauty” on its page on the UNESCO website—and on the other hand allow water companies to pump sewage into those lakes. We should very much learn the right lessons from Liverpool’s experience, where the council allowed development that was described by UNESCO as “detrimental to the site’s authenticity and integrity”, leading to the “irreversible loss of attributes conveying the outstanding universal value”, and therefore the loss of its world heritage site status. We need to take the protection and celebration of our heritage seriously.”
“For me, and for the residents of my Hazel Grove constituency, the canals and waterways are assets to be cherished, not liabilities to be maintained. I believe that granting Marple locks world heritage status will go a long way in showing our appreciation and support for this beautiful site. Beyond their cultural and historical significance, the waterways are also crucial for nature, wellbeing and combatting climate change. They provide a vital habitat for wildlife and serve as a natural green corridor, connecting diverse ecosystems that are bursting with biodiversity. Canals also play a hugely important role in water management, reducing flood risk and increasing climate resilience. Problems with reservoirs are problems for all of us.”
“I strongly believe that our canals and waterways are a large part of our fantastic cultural and industrial heritage. That is why I launched the campaign for Marple locks, at the junction of the Peak forest and Macclesfield canals, to be designated as a world heritage site. Marple’s canal heritage makes it one of a kind, unique in England, and one of the best examples of industrial waterways in the UK. It is our own local slice of Great British history, and I believe we should be doing everything we can to protect it and preserve it for future generations. I am a proud and long-standing trustee of the Stockport Canal Boat Trust for disabled people and their carers; I refer all colleagues to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests.”
“The Liberal Democrats believe that the UK’s rich and vibrant cultural heritage is a national treasure. In this country at least, it is through UNESCO’s world heritage sites list that the organisation is best known, although the hon. Member for Mid Derbyshire rightly talked of biosphere reserves and global geoparks. Although there are many outstanding examples across our nation—to date, there are 35 UNESCO sites in the UK and overseas territories, from neolithic Orkney to the wonderful city of Bath, via Durham’s castle and cathedral, which I spent three years getting to know during my time there at university—I will shamelessly take this opportunity to plug a cause close to my heart by talking about a site in my Hazel Grove constituency that I believe should be added to the list.”
“We believe in the role of education as a force for good, and if we were in charge, we would commit to spending 15% of ODA on education in the world’s most vulnerable areas, especially focusing on girls and young women. I have been lucky enough to see for myself the impact of such spending, both as a former trustee of a small charity focusing on education in Latin America and as the former chief executive of a charity set up in the areas where my firm at the time was actively investing. I remember fondly a visit to Senanga in Zambia with CAMFED—the Campaign for Female Education—to see a project we were supporting that was providing life skills and business skills to girls and young women. I remember clearly a session in which girls and young women told me of the transformative impact that their education was having.”
“The Liberal Democrats believe that education is the best investment we can make in our children’s potential and our planet’s future. Education opens the mind, fosters understanding and tolerance, and empowers our children and our communities to be the best they can be. In that vein, the Liberal Democrats also want to restore the UK’s reputation as an international development superpower by returning official development assistance spending to 0.7% of national income and re-establishing an independent Department for international development. We understand the need to step up defence spending, but feel that cutting ODA is short-sighted.”
“It is a pleasure to serve with you in the Chair, Mr Dowd, and to be here celebrating the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organisation and the fantastic work it does. We Liberal Democrats are proud internationalists; we believe that our country and our people thrive when we are open and outward looking, and building strong international partnerships with organisations such as UNESCO is a big part of that. We are proud of the UK’s central role in founding UNESCO, and remain steadfast in supporting its mission to contribute to peace and security by promoting collaboration among nations through education, science and culture. The hon. Member for Mid Derbyshire (Jonathan Davies) reminded us of that history.”
“More community energy is obviously good for the planet and for the pockets of bill payers, and it is certainly good for our energy security. The amazing volunteers at Stockport Hydro, Greater Manchester’s first hydroelectric producing plant which is in the River Goyt in my Hazel Grove constituency, tell me about the problems they are having with the Environment Agency stopping them doing their work. They were kept waiting for 227 days for the result of a licence inspection, and they have struggled to get information from it. A lead volunteer told me that if the EA continues in this way, community energy is “doomed”. What conversations is the Minister having across the Government to ensure that community energy delivers the clean power that we need?”
“I further note the Minister’s comments about FIRS. Will he update the House on his current thinking about when he might come back with a decision to add China to the scheme’s enhanced tier? The Minister said that the forthcoming elections Bill will include measures “to safeguard against covert political funding…tougher risk assessment rules for donor recipients and enhanced enforcement powers for the Electoral Commission.” This is a good opportunity. Will the Minister confirm that that will include donations via cryptocurrency and the associated transparency concerns? Will he also confirm that there will be new risk assessment rules and enforcement powers for donations funnelled through third-party organisations such as think-tanks?”
“New measures to disrupt proxy organisations, new penalties for election interference and the removal of potentially compromised surveillance equipment have our full backing. However, in the face of persistent, flagrant transgressions by the CCP, the plan by itself is not sufficient. Beijing has tried to bully our Government, most recently on permission for the proposed new Chinese embassy at Tower Bridge, warning of consequences if the Government do not approve the plans. Beijing has oppressed and intimidated British nationals. We cannot afford to shy away from this challenge and leave key, pressing issues unresolved. I note the Minister’s comments about the Chinese mega-embassy. May I put on record my party’s repeated call to urge the Government to block the plan, to show that attempts to intimidate will be firmly rebuked?”
“I am grateful to the Minister, as always, for advance sight of the statement. The news that the CCP is waging a campaign to infiltrate our Parliament is deeply offensive to our sovereignty, though perhaps it is not surprising to those who have been paying attention to the recent collapsed espionage case and the uncovering of interference at a UK university. The attempts to corrupt our democracy and Government must be rooted out. We therefore welcome the counter-political interference and espionage action plan as a first step. It is absolutely right that the Government implement those measures to challenge Beijing’s espionage capabilities in the UK and the transnational repression it exports to our shores.”
“On one level, this is all just a bit embarrassing, is it not? But on another level, this is having a real impact on business confidence and the ability of local businesses to make decisions about investment and their future. Does the Minister agree that this is all just a bit self-defeating?”
“T5. Starting Point in Woodley is a social enterprise that works to tackle digital exclusion. It tells me that the lack of access to a device is a barrier for too many of my constituents. What plans do the Government have to enable the refurbishment of Government and civil service devices to make it easier for my constituents to get online?”
“As the National Autistic Society says, “Autism influences how people experience and interact with the world. It is a lifelong neurodivergence and disability. Autistic people are different from each other, but for a diagnosis they must share differences from non-autistic people in how they think, feel and communicate.” An autism diagnosis should not be a barrier; it should help autistic people find how to be the best version of themselves.”
“I beg to move, That this House has considered employment opportunities for autistic adults. It is a real pleasure to serve with you in the Chair, Mr Turner. This is an important issue, and one which has risen in prominence with the increased awareness and diagnosis of autism. We have also seen extensive press coverage of the case of Tom Boyd, an autistic man who has been working at Waitrose in Cheadle Hulme, near my Hazel Grove constituency. I could not ignore the many variations of the same conversation I have had with constituents about the problems that they or their family members, like Tom, have faced getting or keeping work or thriving in their career. That so many people are facing the same issues means we are getting something wrong as a society.”
“I very much agree with my hon. Friend about the importance of getting the right education suited to each young person to enable them to flourish in their lives and contribute meaningfully to our community. Clearly, the issues that my constituents have faced are not the same as every autistic person’s experience. When someone has met one autistic person, they have met one autistic person—that is a key point. All too often, autism is viewed in just one way, and it can be seen as a burden that employers have to overcome to employ that person, rather than as a range of differences and strengths.”
“I am particularly keen to hear when the Minister expects to publish a response to the recommendations made by the independent panel of academics led by Professor Amanda Kirby. I really want to thank my constituents who have taken the time to share their experiences. Some of them are here today, and others are watching online. I hope that this place will change things for the better, so that we can do real justice for all the autistic people who just want the same opportunities as everyone else—to work, to live their best life and to thrive.”
“It is only by recognising the differences between people, and by allowing for them and working with them, that we will get the future workforce that we need. I look forward to the Minister telling us what more the Government plan to do to make employment work for autistic people more easily, whether that is businesses employing autistic people, who can bring so much to a workplace, or changing processes so that autistic people can work in a way that suits them and gives them a platform to thrive. Schemes such as Access to Work, Connect to Work or Disability Confident certainly exist, but my inbox suggests that too many people with skills and talents are falling through the gaps.”
“The Buckland review of autism employment found that adjustments for autistic employees are highly variable, and that the onus is normally on the autistic employee to identify and advocate for the adjustments that they need. That is why the Liberal Democrats have campaigned for there to be obligations on employers and local authorities to provide appropriate care assessments and support. To repeat the words of Katie’s mum, not doing this is “like asking someone in a wheelchair to get out and walk up the stairs.” All too often we are building employment practices and processes that are one size fits all, but that size is too small. People are different, and we need to take account of that.”
“As her mum said, “The process to claim completely failed to recognise her disability. It was like asking someone in a wheelchair to get out and walk up the stairs.” When someone has communication issues, layering inaccessible processes on top causes a struggle that is cruel. The irony is that Katie was caught out by this when she was setting up a company helping people with neurodivergent conditions. In a further twist, it was systems designed to help people like Katie into work that failed to take account of her autism. Those are just four examples of people’s lived experience of trying to get into or on with work. Disabled people with autism are among the least likely to be in employment of all disabled people; 34% of disabled people with autism are in employment, compared with 55% of all disabled people and 82% of non-disabled people.”
“In the first case, it was going through the set-up of the company, which took longer than expected. In the second, it was when they missed an email they were not expecting from Companies House. In both cases, my constituents struggled with the sorts of activities that too often people and processes take for granted: making calls, sending emails and completing documents. Katie, who joins us today, was allocated funding for a virtual assistant through Access to Work payments. But when her caseworker retired, her case was not reallocated and she was left facing mounting bills. To resolve it, she was forced to pursue her funding through a labyrinthine process. Were it not for her fantastic mum advocating on her behalf and further support from my superstar casework team, she would not have got it sorted out.”
“A Stockport council officer working in this area reports interesting conversations with employers about the fact that adapting the business to be more inclusive is really, in his words, “about looking at what skills a person can bring to the role and that isn’t as difficult as people first think. It’s about listening and understanding. It certainly doesn’t stop you being successful and profitable and it might actually help you!” Two of my constituents faced challenges when starting and running their own businesses. Both of them set up their own companies—one supporting people with autism and ADHD and the other a small business selling games and toys. In both cases, their efforts to run their companies were undermined when they were in what we could term an irregular part of running a company.”
“Those two wildly different experiences are with the same organisation, the civil service, which shows the need for best practice to be implemented much more consistently. My constituent is someone who has the potential to do things that few other people can, and when his job is built to get the best out of him, he flies. When it fails to take account of his needs, he crashes. I suggest that in a world where we hear all too frequently from some politicians demeaning descriptions of the lives that autistic people will have, we instead need to work on removing barriers that stop them living the right life for them.”
“Fortunately, with support from his parents and some courses of cognitive behavioural therapy, he was able to start again. However, such was the lack of confidence in his own abilities that his first experience caused, he applied for a much less senior role. This time around, though, the experience was a world apart. He had a structured induction that gave him all the information he needed to settle into a new role. Similarly, when he starts a new project or task, he is introduced in a way that gives everyone the information they need to work well with him, such as sharing with any new colleagues how he prefers to receive information related to the task. He is now a valued high-performing member of staff ready to step back up the career ladder, and his mental health is in a completely different, far more positive place.”
“Another constituent has had two jobs with the same organisation. He has been diagnosed as high functioning with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. He has a master’s degree and a range of awards and accolades that attest to his brilliance. He also struggles to know what day of the week it is or how to cook a pizza. He fits many of the stereotypes that people have about autism. In the first job, although he was given support to help him, it did not take account of the way he processed information. Instead, he was put on a performance improvement plan, which gave him no time to embed the enabling strategies that his mentor had helped him with. Instead of being supportive, it fed into his anxiety, and such was the stress it caused that he ended up with autistic burnout and on medication.”
“I was really pleased that he and his mum came to see me at my advice surgery a few weeks ago, and that they are here today. He is now on universal credit, including the disability element, but tells me that what he wants is the independence and dignity that comes with having a paid job. For Bradley, the problem he faces is getting over the hurdle of having a chance to prove his worth. He has applied for over 100 jobs. He has been given interviews and has passed tests, and yet is never given the job. All too often he tells me he hears the same refrain: “We have another candidate who we feel best suits the post.” Although that is said to anyone who applies for a job and they hear it from time to time, Bradley hears the same thing every time, after every interview and every successful test. That is what stings.”
“As a Liberal, I want to ensure that people are viewed as individuals; that they are given a platform to be the best version of themselves; that we give our fellow citizens opportunities and not barriers; and that we ensure they are not limited by someone’s view of a category in which they happen to fit. I thank my constituents who have shared their experiences with me and who have very different lives, needs and experiences, but who have faced very similar problems when entering the world of work. My constituent, Bradley from Marple, has had several voluntary jobs in the past. He has done them well and he now volunteers as a digital champion in the local library. Bradley is autistic and has a speech and language condition. He is capable, reliable and determined.”
“People with lived experience are often the best trainers and best able to explain a situation and enable employers to adapt to get the best out of their employees. I very strongly agree with the hon. Lady’s point. I see it in my own area of Stockport, where the council delivers training for employers on how best to welcome neurodiverse employees into their workforce. That training is delivered by those with lived experience. Stockport council also provides adapted spaces at inclusive job fairs. That enables it to support attendance by those for whom busy, noisy spaces do not necessarily bring out the best in them.”
“He talked about how Access to Work, although it exists, is not working for too many people. He made a point that was echoed by the hon. Member for South West Devon (Rebecca Smith): of course this issue is about individuals, but it is also about growth, productivity and our whole economy. I am grateful to the Minister for recognising the work that is going on, but also that more needs to be done. We have not quite nailed this as a society just yet. We are missing out on the skills and talents of too many autistic people, and there is more we can all do to fix that. Question put and agreed to. Resolved, That this House has considered employment opportunities for autistic adults.”
“Friend the Member for Surrey Heath (Dr Pinkerton) and the Minister, made the important point that employers need support, particularly some small employers who do not have a whole fleet of HR colleagues to work with. A number of hon. Members talked about how valuable work experience is; it absolutely can be, but there is a reason the campaign to end unpaid internships has been successful. That success has brought a sense of justice—that someone cannot go on volunteering their time without a pathway to paid employment, or a clear view as to what they are gaining from it or how they can contribute. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Harrogate and Knaresborough (Tom Gordon) for talking clearly about the exhaustion that can come from fighting against and within a system that does not work well enough.”
“I am grateful to everybody who has contributed to the debate, particularly those who brought stories from their constituents. The hon. Member for Shipley (Anna Dixon) suggested changing the way that some people enter employment, and we should take seriously the idea that interviews are not right for everybody. I was disappointed to hear about Workbridge closing from the hon. Member for Northampton South (Mike Reader). That underlines the fragmented nature of the support that is available—it can look different in different parts of the country. Many hon. Members, including the hon. Member for Leicester South (Shockat Adam), my hon.”
“I completely agree with my hon. Friend about the challenges that train users face when they have mobility issues. In my own constituency, for example, someone can come back from town into Bredbury but not get into town from Bredbury. Does my hon. Friend agree that there is a broader point about staffing? If the gap between the train and the platform is such that someone needs a staff member to help with the ramp, does she agree that there is an infrastructure and a staffing issue to address so that people can access our railways completely?”
“There is a lot to support in the announcement, and I particularly welcome the Secretary of State’s words about the importance of financial education from primary onwards. If that is done well, it could have a positive impact on our communities for decades to come. We all know that the key to great learning is fantastic teaching. I am in my 20th year as a primary school governor, so I understand why school leaders will be questioning how they can afford to pay for what has been announced from their already stretched budgets. Will the Secretary of State assure all the primary schoolchildren in my constituency that there will be enough brilliant teachers on hand who are properly resourced to deliver what she has announced?”