Blair McDougall
MP for East Renfrewshire · Labour · United Kingdom
“Let me begin with the hon. Lady’s question about relations with China. We have been very clear that this decision was made in the national interest, not because of the national identity of those who previously owned the site.”
“I express regret and apologies, Mr Speaker, not only for the issue you just raised, but that we were not able to lay the regulations before Parliament before they came into force.”
“British Steel is now owned by the people. We will appoint non-executive directors and a board to take forward the transformation of the company so that it becomes productive, profitable and resilient.”
“The hon. Gentleman will be aware that the measures we took were necessary because of the ending of the steel safeguards. Without the measures we took, there was a real prospect of our becoming the global dumping ground for uncompetitively subsidised over-production.”
“Having got through this urgent question without making any commitments on behalf of my hon. Friend the Minister for Industry, I will give one now and say that I am sure he would agree to the meetings the hon. Gentleman suggests.”
“My hon. Friend is quite right to say that steelmaking communities have been impacted by previous Governments standing by rather than intervening —we have seen it in community after community over decades. As a Community trade union member, I am very aware of that.”
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“I reassure my hon. Friend’s constituents that we are expressing the frustration and anger that he has expressed to me directly to Royal Mail and through Ofcom, and of course I will happily discuss developments with him.”
“My hon. Friend’s constituents absolutely deserve better, and posties deserve dignity at work, given the essential job they do for our society and our economy. That is exactly why we are convening meetings between management and unions to make sure that those talks progress.”
“My hon. Friend shows passion and anger, which he has also shown to me in private when raising these issues. Again, that speaks to how frustrating it is for us as Members of Parliament to raise a problem—on any issue—and then to be told that it does not exist when our constituents are telling us otherwise. Royal Mail has a responsibility to address the problem in a direct and straightforward manner, because if we are not recognising the problem, we will not deal with it.”
“The Government’s response sets a clear direction: we are maintaining a strong and accessible network, backing postmasters through major investment and cultural reform, modernising services for a digital age, and setting the Post Office on a path towards long-term financial and operational stability. The Post Office must be modern, resilient and trusted, shaped by the communities it serves and built around the people who run it. With today’s response, we take a major step towards that future. I commend this statement to the House.”
“That is why the Government will provide £37 million of funding to the Post Office in the next financial year to support with the costs of administering redress and responding to the inquiry. While the Green Paper explored long-term governance ideas such as mutualisation or a charter model, the Government will not make any decisions on structural reform until after the final report of Sir Wyn Williams’ inquiry. In the meantime, we will work with the Post Office to ensure that the organisation demonstrates financial discipline, generates a trading profit by 2030, and continues to reduce reliance on taxpayer subsidy while protecting access for communities that depend on it. This Green Paper process and the thousands of responses we received show the enduring importance of the Post Office to the life of this country.”
“As such, I can confirm today that the Post Office will develop a culture strategy with measurable objectives that covers employees, postmasters, strategic partners and customers. The Government expect that plan to be in place by this summer. To ensure that these reforms genuinely meet the needs of postmasters, the Government have commissioned an independent external evaluation of the initiatives the Post Office has implemented to strengthen postmaster engagement, which will report later this year. Our long-term goal is a Post Office that is financially sustainable, adaptable to changing markets and less reliant on Government funding, but this transition must be responsible and realistic. Respondents were clear that stability comes first, particularly while the Horizon inquiry continues.”
“At the heart of the Green Paper and of today’s Government response is the need to strengthen the relationship between the Post Office and postmasters. The Horizon scandal was one of the worst miscarriages of justice in modern British history, and while the Government remain focused on delivering redress to victims as rapidly as possible, we must also ensure that the culture that enabled those wrongs can never return. The Post Office has already taken steps to rebuild trust, including the postmaster panel, a new consultative council, embedding postmasters in key teams at the Post Office’s head office, and the election of postmaster non-executive directors to the board. However, we agree with respondents that more is needed.”
“Those discussions were based around areas of mutual interest such as banking services, financial inclusion, modernisation, and the importance of continuing to improve financial crime safeguards. Those conversations are ongoing. Finally, on Government services, colleagues will know that many services have moved online. However, respondents told us strongly that vulnerable, digitally excluded and rural customers continue to rely on the Post Office for in-person services. In that spirit, we have established a cross-Government group to look at developing a common physical front door for Government services, expanded assisted digital support, and new propositions such as prescription collection and identity verification.”
“We will support the Post Office’s efforts to innovate in this space while ensuring that essential services remain accessible. Secondly, on banking, the public were clear that the Post Office plays a critical role in ensuring communities have access to cash and in-person banking. Being able to access essential banking services such as cash withdrawals and deposits is valuable to many Post Office customers, in particular small businesses, and respondents expressed an appetite to increase their offer. Last month, the Government held discussions between the Post Office and the banking sector to explore where they may be able to work together on a commercial and voluntary basis to better meet the needs of individuals and businesses.”
“Postmasters must be able to trust the technology that they use; it should make their jobs easier and help them spend their time doing what they do best, which is serving their local communities. The days of the Post Office relying on outdated systems must end, and this programme lays the ground for a modern, resilient and fit-for-purpose organisation. The consultation reinforces the importance of the Post Office for post, of course, but also for banking and access to Government services. I would like to address some specific points about each of those areas. First, on postage, respondents told us that they value the Post Office as a multi-carrier parcel hub and want more choice and convenience in how parcels are sent and received.”
“That is why over the next two years, the Government will provide up to £483 million to support the transformation of the Post Office, on top of network subsidy funding to support the costs of delivering Government policy, which will be £70 million in financial year 2026-27. This investment funding will modernise branches across the country. It will support new in-branch technology and the delivery of new products and services that will make sure the Post Office can do what its customers need it to do, while keeping its identity and its role at the centre of so many UK high streets. The funding will also enable a major technology transformation programme within the next five years that will transition operations away from Fujitsu and ultimately replace the Horizon system.”
“Alongside maintaining the network requirements, we are introducing a new requirement that at least 50% of the network must be full-time and full-service branches. This requirement sets 50% as an absolute minimum, and we expect the Post Office to continue to operate substantially above it. We are setting this requirement to ensure that the full-time, full-service branches remain the backbone of the network for the foreseeable future, as those are the branches that deliver the greatest social value and the strongest customer service. At the same time, we are not blind to the challenges facing the Post Office, and have built in an evidence-based process so that we know when it is the right time for Government to look at the post office network again. However, stability requires investment.”
“I am pleased to announce that we are publishing the Government response to the consultation today. Our response must echo the clear call we heard from respondents. They told us that they want a strong and convenient post office network, built around permanent, full-time and full-service branches that offer a wide range of essential postal, banking and Government services. They want a Post Office that is reliable, modern and transparent, and that puts postmasters at the heart of decision making. As such, I can confirm today that the Government will keep the minimum network size of 11,500 branches and will retain all six geographical access criteria, ensuring that communities across the UK continue to have local and reliable access to postal services, including rural and remote areas.”
“With your permission, Madam Deputy Speaker, I would like to make a statement on the Government’s response to the results of the “Future of Post Office” Green Paper. We published the Green Paper in July, starting a national conversation about the future of the Post Office, an institution that has served every community in every corner of the United Kingdom for generations. More than 2,500 people took the time to respond to the consultation, including postmasters, small businesses, service providers, community groups and members of the public. We also held dedicated discussion groups with postmasters and citizens across the country. I therefore start by thanking every respondent; their views provided a wealth of insight, and have been carefully considered.”
“For example, “drop and collect branches” that do not offer the full service are included in the 11,500 criterion, but are not included in the access criteria. This is about protecting access to as full a range of services as possible. Finally, let me respond to the hon. Lady’s question about Fujitsu. When I met Fujitsu representatives shortly before the end of last year, I made very clear our belief that—as they have said themselves—they have a moral responsibility to contribute substantially to the costs of redress. They have said that they wish to wait until Sir Wyn’s inquiry before making a decision on that, but we will continue to have those discussions.”
“The debate about the Post Office often concentrates on the idea of its being the last place to do things, but, having talked to the management of Post Office Ltd, I am greatly encouraged by their wish for it to be the first place that people think of in connection with cash and other high street services. The hon. Lady asked about the additional 50% trigger, and, entirely fairly, raised the question of what it would mean for rural areas. The criteria for access to the full set of services that a branch provides are being maintained, so those protections are still there. This is very much an additional protection, rather than an alternative to the protections that were already there for rural post offices.”
“The Government are putting £483 million into the transformation of the Post Office to ensure that it has a financially sustainable future as a business on our high streets and in our villages. She asked specifically about support for the IT transformation. Of the more than £500 million that the Government have committed to transformation, including the money already spent before the Green Paper, £136 million is committed to technology and to replacing the Horizon system, which is a major priority for us. However, that transformation investment—beyond what we are putting into IT—will also enable the Post Office to do new things.”
“I think that if I am praised much more from the Opposition Benches, I will be drummed out of the Brownies. I welcome the hon. Lady’s response to my statement. I believe that there is consensus across the House on the important role that post offices play in our communities, and particularly in our high streets and remote villages. I join the hon. Lady in welcoming the campaigning of Mail and Express readers, who have voiced very clearly the importance of post offices to their communities. In my capacity as both postal services Minister and small business Minister, I also echo her words about the essential function of post offices in providing a place for small businesses to drop off their takings. The hon. Lady referred to the costs faced by the Post Office, which is a point well taken.”
“My hon. Friend has made some important points, particularly about the smaller post offices which, as he says, are often the ones that struggle and may be less able to invest directly to tackle some of their problems. The money that we are putting into network transformation is important because it can enable those that may be struggling at the moment to become viable businesses. Just before the end of last year, Treasury Ministers and I chaired a banking roundtable. As my hon. Friend says, we are talking about a voluntary relationship, but all the banks recognise the critical importance of the post offices and of access to banking services for their customers, especially in the light of recent high street bank closures. That recognition is, obviously, shared by the Government.”
“Lady makes a point about ensuring that post office hours match people’s lives, which is something that postmasters are doing already. I visited a post office in Acton that stays open at weekends and till 11 pm, so that other retailers, such as grocers, can come and put in their takings. Finally, we recognise the importance of post offices for vulnerable people and those who, for whatever reason, might struggle with the choices that many other people are making about accessing Government services online. That is one of the key reasons why we are keeping the network at the level it is at the moment. As I mentioned in my statement, we are also doing work across Government to look at the idea of a single front door for face-to-face Government services and the role that the Post Office can play in that.”
“I thank the hon. Lady for welcoming today’s statement. On the additional protection that we are bringing in, I reassure her that in addition to maintaining the network of 11,500 post offices, the access criteria stipulate that 99% of the UK population must be within three miles of a post office outlet, 90% must be within one mile, 99% of those living in deprived urban areas must be within one mile, 95% of the total urban population must be within one mile, and 95% of the total rural population must be within three miles. Then we have the additional protection, particularly in rural areas, that 95% of the population in every postcode district must be within six miles of a post office. They will all be maintained, which should reassure her. The hon.”
“I pay tribute to my hon. Friend for campaigning for his own high streets, and particularly for his local post office network. He is absolutely right to say that our response recognises the importance of post offices as anchors in high streets—they help drive footfall. The community hub model that the Post Office is piloting is an example of how we can build on that and expand post offices’ role as anchors in high streets, but he is right: this has to be seen across the wider effort that we are undertaking to make high streets somewhere people choose to go, to make them more attractive and to make them places where people choose to shop. High streets and high street businesses are not just part of the community; they are where our communities are made.”
“The hon. Gentleman makes a really important point: it can be really devastating when a post office closes, particularly in a small community. There will always be churn within the network—there will be businesses that succeed or fail as post offices. Our job is to make sure that the overall criteria are there and that the overall level of access is there for people. The hon. Gentleman asks what we can do to bring businesses and post offices back to areas such as Kingswinford. The transformation investment that we are putting in is so important, because that is what makes the overall business profitable, but it also enables the Post Office to give a better deal to postmasters, which makes it a more attractive business to open in communities like his.”
“I pay tribute to my hon. Friend for the campaigns that he runs in defence of his local high streets. Just before the end of the year, we brought together Post Office Ltd and the high street banks to begin a discussion about the future of banking and financial services within the Post Office and the role that it plays, not just in ensuring that people have access to banking services but in bringing footfall to local high streets. The revenue that the Post Office receives from the financial services and banking side of its business has doubled over a period in which its revenue from delivering letters has declined, so we are absolutely clear about the importance of the Post Office’s banking services to the future of local high streets.”
“I was going to make a cruel joke about the right hon. Member remembering the opening of that post office, but I am too fond of him to do that. He pays tribute to it, and I would gladly visit, perhaps on the way back to my constituency from Parliament one weekend. I have relatives in his part of the world, so perhaps I can double up on my reasons to visit. As I have mentioned, we absolutely understand the centrality of banking services to the sustainability of the Post Office. We had that roundtable, and even though the banking framework has just been renewed, we have already started conversations on this. Ultimately, those will be conversations between two commercial entities, but we are facilitating them, because we recognise their importance.”
“My hon. Friend is a constant campaigner on behalf of local post offices, and I am not surprised that she had that victory. I look forward to visiting her constituency, and she can perhaps introduce me to the local postmasters while I am there. I have mentioned the transformation programme that we are funding, and while there will always be churn in the network, with some businesses closing and some opening, that should be part of a natural cycle, rather than because of business distress. The transformation programme is about making sure that there is good postmaster remuneration, so that businesses succeed, and I will continue to work with my hon. Friend to make sure that the post offices in her constituency—and everywhere—thrive.”
“I remember responding to a debate in which the hon. Member campaigned vociferously on behalf of post offices in her constituency, and I think today is tribute to the campaigning done by her and by other Members on these issues. I remember her telling me that her constituency not only does not have a post office, but does not have a McDonald’s, which is extraordinary. Again, we are maintaining the access criterion that means that the Post Office has to maintain accessibility for people in rural areas, but ultimately it is by making businesses profitable and making the remuneration for postmasters attractive that we will achieve what she seeks to achieve.”
“I am very happy to reassure Mohammed and his sons about that, and to thank them for the work that they do for the community. My hon. Friend mentions the post office staying open for longer; that is typical of postmasters, who are not just running a business, but have a really clear sense that they are serving their community. That is why getting this right, and succeeding with the vision that we have set out in this Green Paper, is so important.”
“I thank the hon. Member for taking the time to meet me to make the case for post offices in his area, which he did with some passion. From conversations not just with him and other hon. Members, but with postmasters, I am left in no doubt about the importance of ensuring that the Post Office improves renumeration for post offices, because that is how we will ensure that the network thrives and survives. We are putting half a billion pounds into network transformation, so that all the businesses, including those in hon. Members’ constituencies, are sustainable.”
“I will perhaps use more parliamentary language than my hon. Friend did, but I absolutely would encourage everyone to work together to ensure that his constituents have access to postal services. I recognise that, while there is obviously good news today about maintaining the overall size of the post office network and the access criteria, that is little comfort for those in a community where there is such churn in post office services. I will very happily work with him on the issue that he raises.”
“The hon. Member makes a really important point about the impact of the closure of a post office on an area. As I have said, we are maintaining the overall network, but there are still areas where there are issues. The Government obviously do not directly set the remuneration, but we are supporting the Post Office in ensuring, through its transformation, that it is profitable enough to make running a post office business more attractive. Ultimately, that is the long-term answer to the issues in her constituency, and all hon. Members’ constituencies.”
“My hon. Friend is always a doughty fighter for the rights of working people. The employment rights Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for Halifax (Kate Dearden), just disappeared from the Chamber, but was here a moment ago; she has brought through important changes to make sure that when it comes to people’s working environment, there is a floor of decency. Ofcom is looking at other private parcel couriers and the service that they provide, and I will certainly work with my hon. Friend the Member for Hemel Hempstead (David Taylor) on these issues.”
“Most banks do provide services, although I know there have recently been issues around Lloyds and the availability of cheque-cashing. I am really pleased to hear that the Lyndhurst branch has been saved, and I congratulate the right hon. Gentleman and campaigners on that. The banking framework is an increasingly important part of post offices’ income, and at the heart of that is the relationship whereby the post office is paid for providing services that have disappeared because of a lack of high-street bank branches. That is very important to the financial stability and future of the Post Office.”
“The hon. Gentleman makes an incredibly important point. I have only been a Minister for four months, but I have already learned that it is not a great idea to trespass too far into Treasury Ministers’ territory; however, I will certainly discuss the point that he raises with colleagues there, and obviously our overall strategy is to make sure that there is access to financial services through the post office in as wide a range of communities as possible.”
“No, it is not, because all six of the criteria remain, and they will guarantee access to the fuller range of services that the Post Office provides. I am happy to give the hon. Gentleman that reassurance.”
“Obviously the business model of the Post Office is a matter for the Post Office, but it would say to me that it is about continuing that central role of banking and financial services through the Post Office, and about experimenting with new models like the hub of the high street, where post offices can partner with other organisations that perhaps do not want the full expense of their own high street presence but can use the vast network of the Post Office. Finally, it is about the technological transformation that we are funding, which will improve the customer experience and improve the renumeration for sub-postmasters.”
“The hon. Lady makes a really important point, and an hon. Friend asked earlier whether this is part of a wider need to regenerate high streets. It is also true that it has to be part of a wider strategy to support rural businesses like the ones the hon. Lady mentions. I have spoken many times about what we are going to do to improve postmaster remuneration through the transformation investment that we are putting in. Perhaps before I sit down and we move on to the next debate, I can also say some words of encouragement: there is a new generation of postmasters coming through, and not only is it a fantastic business opportunity for people, but it is an extraordinary opportunity to serve their community and become a key and valued figure, particularly within communities like the hon. Lady’s.”
“All our constituents place immense value on reliable postal deliveries, accessible post offices and the assurance that even the most remote households remain firmly connected to the rest of the country. I pay tribute, as others have, to the posties and the postmasters and postmistresses across the UK who serve their communities well over and above the level of compensation that they get. My hon. Friend the Member for Corby and East Northamptonshire (Lee Barron) put it best in reminding us that whatever criticisms and complaints hon. Members have, they are in no way directed at those extraordinary staff members who work so hard.”
“Member for Horsham (John Milne) set out how devastating the consequences of the postal service not working can be. Postal services are a lifeline, a point of connection and a cornerstone of communities. I know from my relatives in highland areas in Scotland just how essential that connection is—to reassure the hon. Member for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross (Jamie Stone), I will raise the issue of his wife’s missing dress and the diesel lorry with Royal Mail—and that is as true in the south of Scotland and rural areas as it is all over the United Kingdom. I say to the right hon. Member for Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale (David Mundell) that I am sorry that his grandson’s card did not arrive, and perhaps I can put a belated happy birthday in Hansard for him to in some way make up for that.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Stringer. I congratulate the hon. Member for South Shropshire (Stuart Anderson) on securing the debate and on making such a passionate case on behalf of his constituents. As the Minister with responsibility for postal services, I was interested to hear him talk about how that dates back to the time of Henry VIII—a political figure who was hated in Scotland, who was dangerously overweight and who had trouble with his wife, so postal services are in much different and safer hands today. As so many Members have said, postal services in rural areas and, for that matter, across the country are not simply an administrative matter. If it was simply a case of a bank statement coming late, few of us would be so passionate about it. The hon.”
“The hon. Member makes a really important point. Being a postie is a good job and we need to make sure that it is an attractive job. I will come to my discussions with Royal Mail on those and other matters shortly. Others have mentioned the broader technological changes in society that have reshaped how people live and work and created challenges for Royal Mail and the Post Office. It is important to remember that these institutions create a sense of continuity in a time of change. We are committed to the universal postal service—the guarantee that letters and parcels will be delivered at a uniform price to every address, however remote.”
“The discussions that we have had today will inform every engagement I have with Royal Mail. As I have said, yesterday I made it clear that people not getting their mail is simply not good enough.”
“I know that South Shropshire suffered widespread disruption in early January after storms, and as a result there were times when the rotation of mail processes could not be followed and deliveries were affected. The hon. Member for South Shropshire engaged with Royal Mail, and it told me that it welcomes such engagement; it thinks that it is important for hon. Members to continue to engage with it. I know that hundreds of hon. Members will have visited their local sorting offices over Christmas. I will personally ensure that every single issue that has been raised by hon. Members here today is communicated back to Royal Mail at a senior level, because customers, particularly those in rural areas, must see visible and sustained improvements in reliability, timeliness and delivery office performance.”
“Royal Mail knows that it has not always delivered, and I was given an absolute commitment that it will work to deliver the best possible service to customers, while accepting that there have been service challenges. The hon. Member for South Devon (Caroline Voaden), my hon. Friend the Member for Rushcliffe (James Naish), the hon. Member for North Shropshire (Helen Morgan), the right hon. Member for The Wrekin (Mark Pritchard), my hon. Friend the Member for Southend East and Rochford (Mr Alaba) and the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) all mentioned concerns about NHS appointment letters not getting through. That is a particular issue that I am pursuing in conjunction with colleagues in the Department of Health and Social Care, because there is an ability to make sure that those get through.”
“I will come to my discussions with Royal Mail shortly. I know that the right hon. Member and I are due to discuss this issue face to face in a few days’ time. I share the deep frustration that has been voiced today and agree that Royal Mail has not just a legal obligation, but an obligation and a responsibility in our democracy. There are special measures in place around postal votes. Royal Mail has traditionally taken on additional staff and done sweeps of post boxes during elections, and we would absolutely insist and expect that that happens in the elections that the right hon. Member for Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale raised. I met Royal Mail’s chief executive and senior management yesterday, specifically to raise concerns that Members across the House have shared with me in recent weeks.”
“I will come to that point on other parcel delivery providers shortly. Before the takeover of Royal Mail, we secured commitments from its new owners, EP Group. In addition to retaining a golden share in Royal Mail, we secured a commitment to prevent further value from being taken out of it until the quality of service improves.”
“The average household now receives only four letters per week, down from 14, yet the number of addresses in the country has risen by 4 million. To protect the USO for the long term, Ofcom has introduced reforms that are projected to deliver up to £450 million in annual savings, helping to get Royal Mail on to a more financially sustainable basis. We now need Royal Mail to work with its workforce and unions to deliver the service that we all expect. Several hon. Members raised concerns about now slightly notorious parcel providers other than Royal Mail. Ministers and Ofcom have made it clear that the way they are operating is not good enough and that they are on notice.”
“The hon. Member makes a really important point about staff retention. Obviously, management and the workforce are working on implementing not only reforms but the pay deal. Hopefully, that will play an important role in helping to tackle what he has just spoken about. In addition to my discussions with Royal Mail, I have had detailed discussions with Ofcom, which has an essential role in improving standards. As the hon. Member for Strangford has just pointed out, Ofcom has told Royal Mail that it must publish a credible improvement plan that delivers significant and continuous improvement, and made it clear that, without such a plan, it is likely that fines will continue to be imposed. The hon. Member for South Shropshire mentioned the context for this debate, which is the change in consumer behaviour and communication.”
“It must have the commercial freedom to deliver the branch network within the parameters that we set. Several Members raised concerns about the Green Paper process and whether we would continue with the current level of service. Our starting assumption was that we would, but we thought it was right to have a debate given how long it has been since we had that conversation. Just finally, we absolutely recognise the importance of banking services and the Post Office, which the hon. Member for Richmond Park (Sarah Olney) spoke about. That is why I and the Economic Secretary to the Treasury held a roundtable last month to talk about continuing that relationship.”
“As I mentioned a moment ago, when Royal Mail was taken over, the deed included all sorts of assurances about making sure that the owners cannot take value out of the company until they improve service. Their financial interests are deeply tied to the service that our constituents receive. Turning briefly to the rural post office network, we currently have a network of 11,500 post office branches around the country and most people live within 3 miles of one. However, as Members have pointed out, those averages do not paint the full picture. The Government have invested significantly in the post office network precisely because it provides essential services. Although it is publicly owned, Post Office operates as a commercial business with its own board of directors.”