Ms Julie Minns
MP for Carlisle · Labour · United Kingdom
“There is something powerful about the fact that primary school children have recognised a problem that we as lawmakers have yet to address. I would like to be clear: the issue is not e-bikes. It is illegal e-bikes.”
“Since then, with thanks to Maisie Stewart and Clark Becken in my team, I have had the privilege of meeting manufacturers, retailers, charities, the bicycle and motorcycle industries, and police and community groups, not just in Carlisle but well beyond.”
“On a positive note, I have been delighted to spend time visiting and speaking with some of the amazing legitimate cycle businesses and organisations in my constituency, including Rebike Cumbria, which refurbishes bikes, helping people on low incomes to enjoy the physical and mental health benefits of cycling.”
“I thank the Minister for her response; I know that she shares my concern about the increasing use of illegal e-bikes on our streets. When I visited Palace Cycles in Carlisle, the owner told me that he is increasingly under pressure from people who have illegally modified bikes to do repairs on them.”
“One of the things that Sir David understood well is that the best causes we take up as parliamentarians begin not in Westminster but in our constituencies. Like the hon. Member for Stockton West (Matt Vickers), I have had many constituents come to me worried about the growing presence of illegal e-bikes on our streets.”
“It is about public safety, crime, antisocial behaviour, consumer protection and business, and—most importantly for all of us—it is about our communities. Next year, the Tour de France comes not just to Britain but to my constituency of Carlisle.”
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“The introduction of on-the-spot fines of up to £2,500 and the ability to revoke retailers’ licences entirely are therefore welcome. Mandatory licensing will also make it much easier to shut down dodgy shops that knowingly stock or distribute illegal vapes and cigarettes. Under the new framework, any premises found storing, displaying or supplying unregulated products will lose their licences, because licensing applies not just to the act of selling, but to the possession of regulated products for retail purposes. This means that enforcement officers will no longer have to rely on repeated seizures or warnings; they will have a fast, lawful route to closing down problem retailers for good.”
“The Bill will give the Government the power to introduce such a framework, and that can only be strengthened by a requirement for licensing authorities to consider annually the programme of enforcement. Contrary to what the hon. Member for Windsor (Jack Rankin) seemed to suggest, one of the strongest arguments for licensing is its ability to combat the sale of illegal cigarettes and vapes on our high streets. Local authorities and enforcement bodies have warned repeatedly that rogue sellers are flooding the market with untested, high-nicotine, incorrectly labelled or counterfeit products, and my constituency is no exception. Just a few weeks ago, Cumberland council trading standards seized 6,000 illegal cigarettes in raids, and that was in addition to the £20,000-worth of illegal tobacco and vapes seized last summer.”
“Friend the Member for Falkirk (Euan Stainbank), clarify what we mean by a “relevant enforcement authority” and, in particular, clarify the duty that will be placed on that relevant enforcement authority to consider annually whether it is appropriate to carry out a programme of enforcement action. As has been said, we acknowledge, and know, that vaping can support adults who want to move away from smoking, but we nevertheless cannot ignore the rapid rise in youth vaping and the growing presence of illegal, non-compliant and counterfeit vapes and cigarettes in all our communities. That is why a robust, mandatory licensing framework is so urgently needed.”
“Before I begin my brief speech, may I say how good it is to see my hon. Friend the Member for West Lancashire (Ashley Dalton) in the Chamber? We owe her a debt of gratitude for both introducing the Bill and piloting it through the House. She leaves behind—I was going to say large shoes, but that seems a bit rude—significant shoes to be filled, but I know they are shoes that the Under-Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, my hon. Friend the Member for Washington and Gateshead South (Mrs Hodgson), is more than capable of filling, and I am very glad to see her in her place this evening. I wish to speak briefly about Lords amendments 11 and 61, which, as we heard from my hon.”
“Citadel Homes has issued demands for rent increases of over £200 a month, in tandem with no-fault eviction notices, to tenants in the Denton Holme area of my Carlisle constituency. Those affected have done nothing wrong. Will the Leader of the House ensure that in the final weeks before the abolition of no-fault evictions, Ministers do all that they can to ensure that landlords like Citadel Homes are held to account?”
“I would like to add one further example from my constituency. The Rebuild Site, a social enterprise, has identified that in the construction industry a large amount of waste goes to landfill and contributes hugely to our carbon dioxide emissions. It offers a service to developers whereby at the end of a job, it takes the surplus waste back to its warehouse, sells it and donates the money to community projects. Does my hon. Friend agree that we need more examples like the Rebuild Site across the country to engender genuine pride in our towns and cities?”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. He will be aware that my constituency was home to Europe’s largest munitions factory during the first world war, a legacy that lives on in MOD Longtown. When the Minister confirms that my constituency of Carlisle will be one of the locations for the six new munitions factories the Government are looking to build, what support will the Government provide to ensure that it is local people who will be able to take up the jobs at that new munitions factory?”
“Carlisle and north Cumbria has around 7,000 off-grid households, so I thank the Minister for his statement, which I know will be welcomed by heating oil and LPG households in my constituency. Will he reassure us that, in tackling the under-regulation left by the previous Government, this Government’s action will regulate the heating oil and LPG markets?”
“For almost a year, the constituents of my friend and neighbour, the right hon. Member for Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale (David Mundell), have enjoyed the benefits of the guest beer agreement. Given that the Society of Independent Brewers believes that a right to buy a guest beer drives customers into pubs, can the Minister update the House on when she expects to announce the results of the beer market review and the merits of introducing a guest beer agreement in England?”
“So in closing, I invite you, Madam Deputy Speaker, the Minister and all colleagues from across House to support not simply a statue or a plaque to female changemakers, but to support an audible celebration, featuring the Coutts bell from St Stephen’s church Carlisle, in a new national monument to the social change that women like Angela Burdett-Coutts and so many who we have heard about today have made possible.”
“In doing so, she not only caused an outrage in Victorian society, but she triggered a clause in the will of her grandfather’s second wife, which stipulated that she must marry an Englishman, and in doing so lost much of her multimillion pound fortune. Since discovering Angela Burdett-Coutts, I have mused not just on how her stories like Angela’s deserve to be more widely known, but on how we should celebrate the female philanthropists and changemakers who did so much for people and wider society.”
“In 1871, Queen Victoria recognised Angela Burdett-Coutts’s immense contributions by granting her a peerage, making Baroness Burdett-Coutts one of the few women of her era to receive such an honour in her own right. Like all female pioneers, Angela Burdett-Coutts was unafraid to challenge convention. Possessing considerable wealth, she was beset by suitors. Many men proposed marriage to Miss Coutts, and she declined all of them. She did, however, propose marriage to her friend and adviser the Duke of Wellington when he was 79 and she was 33; he gently declined her. But that was nothing to the scandal her eventual marriage caused. When she was 66, she married a 29-year-old American, William Lehman Ashmead Bartlett.”
“I first came across Angela Burdett-Coutts when I discovered that she had funded the building of St Stephen’s church in Carlisle in 1864. Having learned that she had financed the new St Stephen’s church in Westminster—just a stone’s throw from this place—the then Bishop of Carlisle wrote to her to inquire whether she would fund the building of a new church in one of Carlisle’s poorest areas, Wapping. Not only did she agree, and personally select the stained glass for the church, but she gifted a peal of eight bells, which on the church’s demolition in the 1960s were installed in the new St Elisabeth’s church in Harraby, where they remain to this day.”
“She co-founded innovative projects such as the Urania Cottage, a home for vulnerable and homeless women seeking a new start in life. In 1884, Burdett-Coutts co-founded the London Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children, which later became the National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children. She championed the protection of animals, becoming president of the ladies’ committee of the Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals and commissioned the fountain and commemorative statue of Greyfriars Bobby. Her humanitarianism reached far beyond Britain, endowing bishoprics in Cape Town, Adelaide and British Columbia. Back home, she funded drinking fountains and animal troughs right across London. She also financed Charles Babbage’s early computing efforts and contributed significantly to hospitals and churches.”
“She was born on 21 April 1814 in Piccadilly, the youngest daughter of Sir Francis Burdett and Sophia Coutts. She inherited not only her family’s name but, in 1837, her grandfather Thomas Coutts’s immense banking fortune, making her one of the wealthiest women in England. Burdett-Coutts, deeply influenced by leading social reformers including Charles Dickens, with whom she collaborated for many years, dedicated her fortune to education and tackling poverty and social injustice, earning her the name “Queen of the Poor”. Her philanthropy was extraordinary in its breadth: she helped to fund ragged schools, built model housing in the east end and developed the Columbia Market to bring wholesome but affordable food to the poor.”
“Madam Deputy Speaker, you were not in the Chair for her remarks, when she talked about strike action by women, but I caution the three Deputy Speakers not to go on strike, as I really dread to think what would happen to this place—with the greatest respect to Mr Speaker. I put on record my thanks to my senior caseworker Megan Redhead who week in, week out strives to deliver great results and improve the lives of the people of Carlisle. In the last couple of weeks, she has achieved the most remarkable outcome for one woman in Carlisle in particular. It is my privilege in this International Women’s Day debate to speak about another remarkable woman: Angela Burdett-Coutts, an overlooked figure from the Victorian era whose compassion, generosity and determination helped shape modern philanthropy. She was a woman who embodied “Give to Gain”.”
“We have had an excellent debate, with so many brilliant contributions, but I would like to single out three in particular. The hon. Member for Gorton and Denton (Hannah Spencer) made a brilliant maiden speech. I am sure she will continue to make many colourful and inspiring contributions in her years ahead in this place, and it is always a joy to welcome another northern woman to the Chamber. My hon. Friend the Member for Brent East (Dawn Butler) should pick whatever lane she would like—I will gladly follow. The important thing is that she keeps driving ahead. The hon. Member for Aberdeen North (Kirsty Blackman) reminded us that whatever our differences, we always have more in common than that which divides us.”
“It is all under the expert direction of museum director Jules Wooding, who not only secured a grant of almost a quarter of a million pounds from the National Lottery Heritage Fund last year, but plays an active role in supporting Carlisle’s large veteran population every single month. These museums exemplify the unique contribution that local museums make, not just to keeping the past alive, but to supporting our communities today and into the future.”
“Our small local museums’ ability to bring together internationally famous exhibits alongside locally significant artefacts is one of their strengths. As befits a city seeking to be the UK’s city of culture 2029, Tullie is not Carlisle’s only museum. We also have a vintage motorcycle museum and the nearby Solway Aviation Museum—a Duxford for the north. It is volunteer-run, under the inspired leadership of museum chairman Dougie Kerr. There, visitors can see the Blackburn Beverly, a Fairey Gannet anti-submarine aircraft and a recently acquired Sea Harrier. While we are on the subject of military service, no visit to Carlisle would be complete without stopping off at Carlisle castle, where Cumbria’s Museum of Military Life can be found, offering exhibits on more than 300 years of our military heritage.”
“However, pressure on local government funding is having a direct and immediate impact on Tullie. Tullie’s Carlisle gallery explores the people and organisations that have shaped our city, its industrial heritage, social change and resilience, and our deep connection to the natural world. Beyond its galleries, Tullie has strengthened its role in the community, offering a new space for family activities, school workshops and exhibitions that ensure that heritage is accessible to everyone. It was my pleasure to open the “Colour” exhibition at Tullie last September, which brought together Andy Warhol, bronze-age gold and the Rudd women, who once sold red stone for colouring the doorsteps of house-proud Carlisle residents.”
“The 2017 future plan has enabled the museum to attract more than £14 million of investment to make the museum the heartbeat of the city’s cultural life. The development is being done in phases, and is supported by a broad range of investors including the Department for Culture, Media and Sport and the National Lottery Heritage Fund. Collections and community are at the centre of the transformation strategy. The capital programme that Tullie is undertaking is part of a city-wide investment in Carlisle, with the Tullie initiative being fundamental to supporting communities and driving the visitor economy. Tullie is maximising its heritage to drive more tourists to explore our historic city, which also includes an outstanding Norman castle, a cathedral and the nearby Hadrian’s wall.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Ms Lewell. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Thurrock (Jen Craft) for introducing this excellent debate. I am proud to represent a constituency shaped by 2,000 years of history—a history of conflict, dispute, industrial growth, people and, above all, resilience. Nowhere is that story told more vividly than in its museums. At the heart of England’s most northerly city stands Tullie House, Carlisle’s museum, art gallery and community hub. It is a place proudly described as “a home for the eternally curious.” Tullie is run as an independent trust. It has nationally important collections of art, archaeology and natural sciences and, since 2017, it has been undergoing a transformation.”
“On that point, I invite my hon. Friend to pay tribute to my constituent Hayley Slack. She wrote the book “Little Coffee Cup”, copies of which are printed entirely on recycled coffee cups. Does my hon. Friend agree that such an innovative approach to book writing and publishing encourages young people not only to read, but to think about sustainability?”
“My hon. Friend raises an important point about the NHS. In my limited but painful experience of hospices, one problem is that even when there is a hospice bed available, NHS staff do not refer end-of-life patients to the hospice because the palliative team is 9 to 5, Monday to Friday. Does he agree that we have to get to a point where palliative support in our NHS is available 24/7 so that those referrals can take place?”
“The Leader of the House knows how proud I am to represent England’s most northerly city. It is a city that had not one, but two Roman forts. It has a wonderful Norman castle and a 900-year-old cathedral with the nation’s favourite stained glass window and retains its city walls and citadels. Nationalised beer was served there for over 50 years. It is the city that gave birth to the railway ticket and where the world’s oldest biscuit factory keeps our country fed on custard creams. Does the Leader of the House therefore agree that there could be no finer place than Carlisle to be the UK’s city of culture 2029?”
“My hon. Friend is making a powerful speech, and he has set out comprehensively the issues that we look to the Government to examine. Does he agree that the Government have begun to take very welcome steps in reforming student finance, in particular the changes to the plan 5 loan system? We are looking for the same consideration when it comes to plan 2 loans.”
“One example of what might politely be called ineffective relations between the Scottish and UK Governments concerns bovine electronic identification, where instead of agreeing to adopt the same radio frequency as the rest of the UK and Europe, the Scottish Government have chosen to use a high-frequency spectrum. The implications for the UK’s largest auction mart, in my constituency, will be a doubling of costs, as it has to invest in two types of scanner. Will the Secretary of State press the Office for the Internal Market to look in detail at how auction houses and hauliers such as those in my constituency will be placed at a competitive disadvantage thanks to the SNP Government?”
“The right hon. Gentleman makes a powerful point about the reconstruction that will follow the peace, and one of those areas will be mine clearance. It is estimated that about a quarter of Ukrainian land is now mined, which means that Ukrainian farmers are literally farming on the front line. We should not underestimate how many decades it will take to clear the land of mines. Will he join me in both welcoming the funding from the Government to the HALO Trust for the work under way and paying tribute to the Ukrainian farmers?”
“T7. A resident in my constituency was initially told to take a round trip of almost 200 miles to receive hospital treatment in Glasgow because he was registered with his nearest GP, which happened to be in Scotland. Can the Minister tell the House what progress is being made in reviewing and updating cross-border healthcare guidance?”
“Adding hundreds of thousands of additional shotgun holders into a system designed for far fewer section 1 applicants risks creating unmanageable delays and increasing the administrative burden and substantial cost to certificate holders and the police. It has consequences far beyond the shooting sports community. Rural economies, pest control, game management, conservation and the businesses that rely on seasonal shooting activity could all be placed under pressure.”
“Key organisations across the shooting sector, as we have heard, including the Clay Pigeon Shooting Association, the British Association for Shooting and Conservation and the National Farmers Union, have raised significant concerns about potential changes. They argue that merging the two licensing systems is unnecessary and disproportionate and that current evidence does not support the claim that such a merger would enhance public safety. With those concerns in mind, it is also important to note that crime involving legally held firearms remains at historically low levels. At the same time, evidence suggests that licensing departments in our local police forces have been overstretched and inconsistent in applying the guidance as it stands.”
“I have taken time to read the coroner’s report and note that the coroner made several recommendations, including nationally accredited training for firearms licensing staff; proper assessment of medical information; ensuring decisions are made at the correct seniority level; improved oversight, governance and audit systems; clearer guidance and consistent application of national policies; and better communication and information sharing. All those recommendations, I believe, are supported right across the House. However, the coroner was silent on the merging of the two licensing regimes. That is not to say there might not be advantages in doing so. Rather, we need to be clear that the coroner’s report in that case did not necessarily recommend it.”
“I note in that the response to the petition the Government state: “legally held shotguns have been used in a number of homicides and other incidents in recent years including the fatal shootings in…Plymouth, in…2021…Recommendations relating to strengthening shotgun controls had been made to the Government by the Coroner in his preventing future deaths report issued in May 2023.” I would like to place on the record my deeply felt sympathy for the families and friends of all of the victims of that incident, and all those of other shootings.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Sir Alec. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for South Norfolk (Ben Goldsborough) for introducing the debate. I also thank the 323 residents of my constituency who signed the petition and the many more constituents who contacted me directly about the matter. It goes without saying that our first duty as legislators should be to safeguard the public, but in doing so we also have a responsibility to ensure that any change we make is evidence-based, proportionate and operationally sound. Any loss of life is a tragedy and it is important that lessons are learned; but, most importantly, in responding to tragedy we must be mindful of being led by the evidence.”
“I therefore urge Ministers to ensure that any reform focuses on what will genuinely improve safety—properly resourced licensing teams, consistent national standards and measures that address illegal firearms—rather than imposing burdens on those who use shotguns responsibly for work, sport and conservation. Evidence, not symbolism, must guide our decisions. I encourage Members across the House to examine the proposal closely during the consultation to ensure that public safety is strengthened without causing disproportionate harm to rural communities.”
“What they question is whether creating a larger, potentially more congested system will achieve those outcomes, or whether it risks the opposite by overwhelming the departments responsible for ensuring public safety and taking away these incredibly useful and effective pest control tools from farmers, landowners and pest control agents. There are other, more targeted and effective, steps that might be taken. Properly resourcing our police licensing teams, ensuring consistent national standards and rigorous application of the Home Office’s statutory guidance should be the priority, so that those who should never have access to a shotgun do not get one under any licence and those who use them responsibly in their work and on their land are not penalised for doing so.”
“It is absolutely incumbent upon any Government to carefully consider any issue. In this regard, I urge the Minister to approach the consultation with an open mind and not to have a predetermined outcome for the conclusion. For many, this proposal represents a far-reaching regulatory shift, with consequences that might not have yet been fully understood. The anxiety that has been expressed to me and other Members is not rooted in resistance to safety. My constituents want safe gun use. They want dangerous individuals to be prevented from accessing firearms.”
“On the speed of licensing, I can recommend none more strongly than the example of Cumbria constabulary, which has really put its house in order over the last 18 months, since David Allen became the police, fire and crime commissioner for Cumbria. I urge others to apply its good practice in the rest of the country.”
“I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Ribble Valley (Maya Ellis) for securing this excellent debate. One organisation that does really interesting work in this space—which, I am ashamed to say, I did not know much about until last year—is Soroptimist International, which has developed fantastic “Loves me, Loves me not” bookmarks that it takes into schools and colleges. The bookmarks detail the component parts of a healthy relationship, as well as how to detect whether or not someone is in one. Does my hon. Friend agree that more initiatives like that would take us in exactly the direction we need to go in?”
“Last week, the east window of Carlisle cathedral was voted the nation’s favourite stained glass window. May I invite the Leader of the House to join me in congratulating John de Salkeld, who in 1359 donated 40 shillings “to make a window anew in the chancel” of Carlisle cathedral; Ivo de Raughton, whose work this funded; and Hardman & Co. of Birmingham, which was commissioned in the 18th century to refill the lower panes to create the window we see today? Will the Leader of the House also join me in thanking the Association of English Cathedrals for organising this wonderful competition?”
“My hon. Friend is making a powerful point about the role of Openreach in this scenario. I have said for some time that its role is equivalent to that of electricity distribution network operators. Although we all pay our bills to an electricity company, it is the distribution network that is responsible for getting our power back on, but Openreach delegates that to the individual service providers. Openreach needs to do more to look after the customers who are affected in these instances.”
“Unfortunately, the 2010 election intervened before the legislation to direct Ofcom could pass, and in January 2011 the Cameron Government allowed the incumbent networks to use their 2G spectrum, creating, in the words of the new entrant, a “competitive distortion”—one that I argue has driven the consolidation in the market over the last decade, weakened competitive pressure on the networks to expand their coverage, particularly in rural areas, and left the taxpayer to pick up the tab for a market failure that was entirely avoidable. I urge the Minister, in matters of spectrum, to be more Blair and less Cameron, and ensure that this Government have a spectrum policy that supports a competitive mobile market that benefits every corner and field of our country.”
“As take-up grew, more spectrum had to become available for 3G and 4G services, but simply allowing the four networks that had legacy spectrum to reuse it for 3G services would not only give them a competitive advantage over the newer entrant, but distort competition between the incumbent networks that held different spectrum frequencies. Different frequencies mean different capabilities. In particular, lower frequency spectrum is essential for getting coverage in rural areas. The then Labour Government’s solution was to direct the regulator to take back the legacy spectrum and reallocate it to maintain a level playing field and maximise competition.”
“That leaves the third factor, which is spectrum—a subject in which I take an unusual interest, having witnessed at first hand the contrasting approaches, and their consequences, of the Blair and Cameron Governments. The UK’s 3G spectrum auction in 2000 was designed not only to inject competition into the mobile market by reserving a licence for a new entrant, but to create a level playing field by preventing the incumbent networks from using their existing spectrum for 3G services. The effect was to create a level playing field and a competitive market for 3G services, with the result that the UK became the first country in the world to deploy a commercial 3G network. Prices fell, innovation grew and new services were spawned.”
“I would welcome the Minister’s thoughts on that point and an assurance that he will press Ofcom to go further on the issue of RAN resilience. I will turn to the factors that determine the ability of mobile network operators to improve and maintain coverage: network investment, planning policy and spectrum availability. The first factor is principally a matter for shareholders, but the Government clearly have a role in creating the right conditions for investment, safeguarding competition and removing the policy barriers to network expansion. That brings me to the second factor, which is planning policy. I strongly urge the Minister to engage constructively with Mobile UK on the reform of permitted development rights and the notice to quit regime, which can see mobile operators forced from sites before a new site can be built.”
“It is a year since Ofcom published the findings of its consultation on mobile RAN—radio access network—power resilience. I will forgive Members if they have not read it as I have. Currently, the regulator suggests a minimum back-up duration of just four hours for mobile RAN sites—the masts—and a minimum duration of one hour for battery back-up units for fixed-line phones, as we have heard. Last year, however, a power cut affecting the village of Kershopefoot, which sits on the border of my constituency and that of the hon. Member for Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk (John Lamont), lasted five days. I therefore think that a sensible and proportionate solution would be for Ofcom to require mobile networks to maintain a small fleet of electricity generators that could be used to power masts until the electricity grid can be repaired.”
“I thank the hon. Member for North Shropshire (Helen Morgan) for bringing forward this delayed but important debate. My constituency includes the very rural area of north Cumbria, bordering Scotland and Northumberland. It is beautiful, remote and, in parts, devoid of mobile coverage. The lack of mobile connectivity is a particular issue in winter months, as we have heard, when snow and wind block roads and bring down power lines. As has been said, the shutdown of the public switched telephone network means that a loss of power to landlines, coupled with a paucity of mobile coverage, now leaves many of my constituents not only without telephony, but without any means of letting their electricity distribution network know that they have no power at all.”
“I am at the other end of my parenting journey—my little girl is 24 today. She is a paediatric nurse and has drawn my attention to the “Cocomelon” channel on YouTube, which is a sensory overload. Does my hon. Friend agree that it is about not just the length of time, but the content—and sometimes the garish audio and colour of that content?”
“Illegal immigration, illegal working and illegal trading frequently go hand in hand, and all too often manifest themselves in the proliferation of dodgy shops on our high streets. While I welcome the shop raids in my constituency last summer, without action to tackle illegality at source the police and trading standards face a never-ending game of whack-a-mole. Can the Minister please assure my constituents that this Government will redouble their efforts to clamp down on both illegal immigration and illegal working?”
“The last Labour Government lifted 600,000 children out of poverty and helped break down barriers to opportunity by introducing child trust funds, giving every single 18 year old savings regardless of their background. However, on turning 18, a disabled person will find that if they have a care package, their child trust fund will be counted in the financial assessment. Can the Leader of the House please make time for a debate on how we can ensure that the child trust funds benefit every single young person regardless of whether they are disabled?”