Chris McDonald
MP for Stockton North · Labour · United Kingdom
“This Bill will assist in that by ensuring that steel production is secured, helping to restore domestic production to sustainable levels and supporting the Government’s economic growth plans where the public interest test is met. The Lords amendments before us strengthen the Bill in several ways.”
“This Government are acting decisively and with purpose in the national interest, but the shadow Secretary of State is blinded by his ideological position on nationalisation. We believe that a steel industry, where necessary run by the Government and owned by the people, at least gives the opportunity to attract private sector investment.”
“I am acutely aware of the position in which the previous Government left us, with uncompetitive energy prices for industry. If he had been attentive in some of the debates we have been involved in, he would be aware of some of the measures that I have taken to address that.”
“Lords amendments 4 and 5 upgrade the parliamentary procedure relating to continuity obligations and enforcement, ensuring that Parliament has increased scrutiny of these matters.”
“I have listened carefully to the shadow Secretary of State’s remarks and those from the shadow Minister, and I will address them in a moment. I am grateful for the support of the Vice-Chamberlain of His Majesty’s Household, my hon. Friend the Member for Scunthorpe (Sir Nicholas Dakin), and of the Minister without Portfolio, my right hon.”
“It is a pleasure to be back in the House today to see through the final stages of this Bill. The Government support all the Lords amendments before us. I wish to pay tribute to my colleague Minister Leong for so expertly guiding the Bill through its passage in the other place.”
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“While I understand the consideration that has gone into the preparation of the amendments, narrowing the scope of the definition of a steel undertaking would, in the Government’s view, introduce ambiguity rather than clarity. In practice, there are unlikely to be many undertakings operating at scale in both steelmaking and an unrelated business practice; if there were, the Government would look to exercise powers in a way that focused on what was necessary to operate the steelmaking business. The drafting of the Bill follows on from the text of the Steel Industry (Special Measures) Act. The Government are therefore of the view that amendment 21 is not necessary.”
“Delays on such a large project are not unusual, but the specific issue in that case was around the groundworks—I would certainly be happy to expand on that more if it becomes part of the debate. I am, of course, in close contact with Tata Steel about that. In my experience of such projects, it is always difficult to understand what the duration of the project will be until it gets out of the ground, and ultimately there are issues with the groundworks there. Let me move on to address amendment 21 and the issues raised by the shadow Minister. In terms of its structure, the Bill is very much modelled on the Banking Act 2009, which received incredibly broad support. The clauses in part 1 are vital to the operation of the Bill, and I urge the Committee to reject attempts to remove them.”
“The Government have been clear in our steel strategy that we see a transition to electric arc furnaces over time—there are good reasons for that, not least because they are the most productive and efficient technology available and are reliable and tried and tested—but our intervention in the Steel Industry (Special Measures) Act 2025 and our ongoing support of the British Steel business has been to ensure that we have blast furnace-produced primary steel available as part of that transition. The furnaces in Scunthorpe are the only two working blast furnaces in the UK, and they are currently our only source of primary steel. The right hon. Member for Gainsborough (Sir Edward Leigh) also raised reports in the press about delays to the project in south Wales.”
“Perhaps I can even give a slightly fuller answer than that. The particular issue with that previous nationalisation by the then Secretary of State was that it was effected merely to create a change of ownership, without actually improving the quality of the business or attracting additional investment into the business at the time. It is important to take this Bill in the full context of our steel trade measures and our steel strategy, which lays out a forward plan for the steel industry. Nationalisation is one of the tools that we can use.”
“My hon. Friend raises a specific point about JCB. I am reasonably familiar with its business, and I think its particular concern may be around the sourcing of plate steel. The steel trade measures—the tariffs and quotas that we announced—are designed to ensure that the UK is not subject to subsidised steel, which would damage our upstream industry, and will certainly help to support the upstream sector. Of course, we need a strong upstream sector in order to have a strong downstream sector. The issue with plate steel is that the Dalzell plate mill in Scotland, which is capable of making many of these steels, has not been operating for some time. I would be happy to meet my hon. Friend and JCB to discuss that in more detail.”
“I was just going to address the point the right hon. Gentleman made about the business in his constituency. I am not familiar with that business, but the general approach we have taken is to ensure that the groupings of steel under the trade measures are subject to the tariffs where those steels are or can be made in the UK, accepting that some of them are not but could be made in the UK, including at operations such as Dalzell. It is not always possible to separate all those steels out based on the groupings, so that is the purpose of the quota. I am always interested to hear of specific examples. I had a meeting with a business last week for which this appeared to be a concern, but once we discussed the issue in detail we found that it was not an issue for the business, because of some of the arrangements that were in place.”
“I am aware of that issue as well, and if the right hon. Gentleman would like to include all those issues in the letter, I will be happy to provide him with a response.”
“The hon. Member might wish to let the business know that we have committed to a 12-month review of these tariffs, which, as I said, apply to steels that are made or could be made in the UK. I am aware that Speciality Steel UK is currently not operational as it is going through an administration process. Although the sort of high-quality aerospace steels that he mentioned may not be made there, I think it is probably the most likely location where they will be made, subject to those certifications, which are held by that business. The official receiver is currently in exclusive discussions with the business and a potential owner, so it is possible that the company he refers to may see a UK supplier soon, but if he shares the details with me, I will certainly be able to give him a fuller response.”
“Some of the amendments would limit the test exclusively to consideration of the three factors in clause 2, whereas amendment 23 seeks to expand them to include the prevention of closure or job losses in Wales. The inclusion of the three factors in the Bill offers some additional weight, and of course any assessment of an intervention will need to be considered against them. However, there may be a good rationale for an intervention that moved beyond that and did not sit squarely under those factors, so in our view it would be sensible not to bind the hands of the Government in that way.”
“I thank my hon. Friend for raising the issue of the London Screw Company, and also for the discussion he had with me about that very company last week. It looks to me to produce an extraordinarily high-quality range of products, and certainly better than I normally find for my DIY projects, so it is my intention to patronise that company in future—we should all have more high-quality ironmongery, I believe. In a similar vein, if my hon. Friend writes to me with further details, I will ensure that my officials look at that matter, but in the first instance we would look to see whether those steels are made or could be made in the UK. Unless there are any further questions about downstream steel producing, I will move on to address more of the shadow Minister’s comments. She talked about the public interest test in clause 2.”
“There is so much so say, and so little time until the rise of the House. Members who are standing may wish to take a seat, because we might be here for a little while.”
“We all share that view across this Committee, and we also want there to be extreme care in the use of the powers in the Bill. I know that Members who moved amendments in that regard are concerned about that, and the Government are too. I will address some of those points, and I will endeavour to address some of the points raised by Members during the debate. I will start by addressing a recurring theme in the debate: what nationalisation is.”
“Indeed, Madam Chair—I was banking on 10 o’clock. I thank all Members, including the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for West Worcestershire (Dame Harriett Baldwin); the Liberal Democrat Front-Bench spokesman, the hon. Member for Richmond Park (Sarah Olney); and the former leader of Reform, the hon. Member for Boston and Skegness (Richard Tice), for the extremely constructive and civil way in which this debate has been conducted. I know that that comes from a real enthusiasm among all Members in the Committee for having a successful steel industry. In fact, there were many points of agreement in the debate. In debating the amendments to the first part of the Bill, the importance of the steel industry came through extremely strongly, as did the importance and reliability of the use of public money.”
“Those businesses are returned to the private sector only once they are successful. Contrary to the narrative that is often peddled about public ownership, the purpose of public ownership is to pick up businesses when there is a market failure or where a private sector operator is unable to continue. We have seen that in other instances, such as in the railway industry. I see nationalisation simply as a useful and pragmatic tool of industrial strategy.”
“The hon. Gentleman is quite right. The steel sector is vital for our national security and our infrastructure and construction industries throughout the whole of the United Kingdom, including in Northern Ireland. He speaks very well about that. Nationalisation or national ownership is not an objective in and of itself; it is simply a pragmatic tool of industrial strategy that can be deployed with care in order to achieve legitimate aims of Government. If we think about some of the nationalisations of the past, it may be that some of those were driven by the pragmatic use of industrial strategy, and it may be that some were driven by ideology. In general, the way that the nationalisation of a business works is that the Government intervene when a business is in distress or is no longer viable but is important.”
“That business shows the power of a productive Government intervention, working carefully with industry, because the Government have underwritten the costs of the official receiver to allow a proper sale of the business. The official receiver is in exclusive discussions with a potential buyer, and there was a high level of interest in the business from the market. As we look forward to the potential sale of the business, we can see the vital role that the Government have played in recognising that steel undertakings are complex, that it can be difficult and can take time to assess them, and that they require high levels of working capital. That contrasts significantly with Governments in the past, who allowed steel companies to close simply by not allowing that process to continue.”
“I think the right hon. Member for Beverley and Holderness (Graham Stuart) also wants a strong steel industry, but he has been quite clear that he does not see nationalisation as a tool for delivering that—I think that is fair. He is also concerned about the use of public money, which I think is fair as well. I shall address both of those points as I continue. I am very pleased that my hon. Friend the Member for Rotherham (Sarah Champion) raised those issues. This is an opportune time to mention that in her earlier comments, she asked for an update on the current status of the Speciality Steel UK business, which I know affects her constituency and that of my hon. Friend the Member for Penistone and Stocksbridge (Dr Tidball).”
“I will take an intervention from the right hon. Member for Beverley and Holderness. Given that he was referenced, it would be helpful to give him the right to reply.”
“This comes down to a judgment as to whether we think the UK is capable of having a successful, profitable and investable private sector industry. It is the Government’s view that it is possible for the UK to have that, not least when we compare ourselves with similar advanced economies in Europe—we are not necessarily comparing ourselves with low-cost economies around the world—but it is a matter of ensuring that we have the right business environment to enable that to happen, and it is clearly incumbent on Government to arrange policy in that way. I think our steel strategy, in particular, and our trade measures provide that response, which is what gives us confidence that we have the resources to do that.”
“Let me address that point. It is helpful for us to think about the potential options. There is agreement across the Committee that we want a successful and thriving steel industry, and the Government have made some serious financial commitments. We have committed £500 million to support the transformation of the plant in Port Talbot, which has attracted another £500 million of private sector investment. We have committed £2.5 billion through our steel strategy and an additional £400 million to support the Forgemasters operation, which is successfully under public ownership. We have to think about the potential options. Given that the Government have put that money on the table and are seeking private sector partners to work with for all our steel plants, the alternative would be the closure and the loss of those facilities.”
“If the hon. Gentleman does not mind, I will take the second intervention from my hon. Friend the Member for Rotherham, and then I will give way to him.”
“That can have real-world consequences for businesses that rely on trade finance or other forms of working capital support, as a lack of confidence can rapidly turn into business closures. While some of those amendments are well-meaning—I am speaking particularly about amendments 2, 3, 18 and 19—they would fundamentally interfere with the speed and operational ability of the Secretary of State under the legislation and reduce legal certainty.”
“The supply chain is incredibly important. My hon. Friend is right about the jobs and the economic value in the supply chain; my hon. Friend the Member for Newton Aycliffe and Spennymoor (Alan Strickland) also referenced the supply chain, and particularly how its needs relate to the measures in the Bill. A number of the proposed amendments to the Bill would ultimately slow down the ability of the Secretary of State to make decisions—that point was also made by the hon. Member for Boston and Skegness. If the Secretary of State cannot act swiftly, there is a risk of greater uncertainty among employees and commercial partners in the supply chain, as my hon. Friend the Member for Newton Aycliffe and Spennymoor rightly said.”
“Friend the Member for Stalybridge and Hyde (Jonathan Reynolds)—the former Secretary of State, who is now Chief Whip—was able to intervene at that point and get a much better deal for the workers at Port Talbot and the community there than the previous Government did. I share the hon. Lady’s frustration and concern, but we need to be clear about where the indifference to the blast furnace closures in Port Talbot was. It was not with this Government; it was with the then Conservative Government.”
“That £500 million has enabled Port Talbot to invest an additional £500 million in a transformation of that steelworks that will secure steel production at that site and the future of the south Wales steel industry for decades to come. It is a significant investment in the local community. I know that the hon. Lady, like me, would have preferred for that transition in south Wales to have happened without the hard stop between the closure of the blast furnaces and the restart of the electric arc furnace, and I support Tata Steel’s view on the installation of its electric arc furnace. However, the decision to close was taken before the general election, and my right hon.”
“Member for Caerfyrddin (Ann Davies), who spoke with great passion and commitment about the importance of the steel industry throughout the whole of Wales. There is often considerable discussion of Port Talbot in this House, but as she rightly set out, there are also steelworks in Llanwern, Cardiff, Newport, Trostre and Shotton—I hope I have remembered all of them—that deserve recognition and investment. I could not disagree more, however, that this Government have treated the Welsh steel industry unfairly, or not in an equitable way, compared with the steel industry elsewhere in the UK. The steel industry in Wales is the only part of the industry that has a ringfenced fund—£500 million for Port Talbot. The hon. Lady said that that has been spent with no benefit to the local community, but I frankly cannot agree with that.”
“There were a number of objections to it, but the case for its continuation was made extremely well by my hon. Friend the Member for Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland (Luke Myer). As it stands today, the Government have no intention of extending the sunset period, but we recognise that we are living through particularly volatile times. There is geopolitical and economic uncertainty, which is likely to have a bearing on the steel sector in ways that it is difficult for us to see at the moment. As such, our view is that it is simply pragmatic to include this level of flexibility in the Bill, and of course, regulations made under that clause would be subject to the affirmative procedure. It is important that I address some of the concerns of the hon.”
“If we consider the timescale of some of the investments in steel companies that we are talking about—not only multiple-year investments in order to commission, but multiple-decade investments beyond that—we can see that we have a pathway on energy that will enable us to get from now to 2030 and beyond. The Father of the House, the right hon. Member for Gainsborough (Sir Edward Leigh), who is not currently in his place, was concerned about this issue as well. He was also concerned that the UK has the highest energy prices in Europe, but we do not currently, and it is certainly our plan to ensure that our energy prices for industry are competitive with Europe in future. Returning to the amendments that have been tabled, there was quite a lot of discussion about the sunset clause in the Bill.”
“I am pleased that the hon. Gentleman has raised that question, because it was mentioned by a number of Members during the debate. To go back to the point about having a business environment that creates a profitable and investable steel industry, energy is clearly part of that. Some of the changes that the Government have already made—increasing the rebate on the supercharger from 60% to 90%, or the British industrial competitiveness scheme, which will support some of the downstream industry—will be particularly helpful in supporting not only the steel industry but other parts of heavy industry between now and 2030, which is when the Government’s clean power mission will come fully online. We anticipate that at that point, we will have not only clean energy, but secure and lower-cost energy.”
“The Government’s view is that where a steel undertaking is running adequately under private ownership, that ultimately should be allowed to continue, because the Government believe in private involvement in the steel sector. It goes back to the point about investment that I think the shadow Minister made earlier. She described her concern about a potential chilling effect on investment.”
“I have been around the shop and seen the space that has been created for the installation of the furnace, but once it arrives on the dock of Port Talbot, we will all feel a greater degree of certainty about that. That will be a big boost to the workforce when it does happen. I am absolutely confident that it will happen, but to say when—to pin it down to an individual week or month—is more difficult. There was one more point I wanted to make about the contribution of the hon. Member for Caerfyrddin. She essentially called for public ownership of Port Talbot, and I am really sorry, but that is another point on which we disagree.”
“Members must be aware, though, that there have been steelmaking activities on that site in Port Talbot for well over 100 years. Not all of those operations had been fully documented, and the ground conditions were considerably worse than had been anticipated. That is now being dealt with, and as soon as the project gets out of the ground, we will have great certainty about when the electric arc furnace can turn on. Until that happens, as a project manager, I would hesitate to give a cast-iron guarantee, because you need to get out of the ground first. What I am looking forward to, though, is the delivery of the electric arc furnace in Port Talbot, because that is the point when the project will feel real—when the workforce will be able to see the furnace itself.”
“I am really glad that the hon. Gentleman has asked me that question—I know he has great experience in the property industry, and certainly with construction projects. As I mentioned earlier in the debate and as he will know very well, in any construction project you only really have certainty on the timeline when you have got out of the ground, and this project is still very much in the ground. The hon. Gentleman’s question gives me the opportunity to clear up some issues. I know that the delay as reported by Tata Steel—this is Tata Steel’s project, not the Government’s—related to an electrical connection, and specifically the soil condition as it relates to building a substation. At the outset, quite rightly, assumptions were made about the soil condition based on engineering assessments. Right hon. and hon.”
“He rightly made the point that it is important that we engage on the detail in Committee, and I thank him for raising that point and giving me the opportunity to respond.”
“I reassure Members that, having passed the Banking Act to great acclaim, this Bill is following its path, and we made a positive decision to do that. The right hon. and learned Gentleman mentioned the requirement in the Banking Act for the Chancellor of the Exchequer, I believe, to consult with the Prudential Regulatory Authority, the Financial Conduct Authority and the Bank of England, and how a consultation requirement is not in the Bill. He is right to point that out, but these are different industries. The banking industry is highly regulated, and there are statutory bodies that require consultation. There is no opportunity to replicate that in the steel sector, because there are no such statutory bodies.”
“I thank my hon. Friend for making that point. He is right that we should welcome that 50% of UK steel will be made in Wales. We talk about Port Talbot specifically, but 7 Steel’s plant has operated incredibly well for so long, making the rebar steels that are essential for our construction industry in the United Kingdom, as well as in Ireland, which 7 Steel supplies, too. Long may that continue. I am sure that the investment will help with that. The right hon. and learned Member for Kenilworth and Southam (Sir Jeremy Wright) raised a number of concerns, such as the operation of the Bill, its powers, public money and so on. He made a comparison with the Banking Act 2009, and he is right that I have made great play about the similarity between this Bill and that Act.”
“Having covered the amendments and the new clauses, and perhaps tried the patience of the Committee to a great extent, it would be wise to conclude. I point out to hon. and right hon. Members that there is an additional day of debate on the Floor of the House on this Bill tomorrow. Rather than me standing here and talking to myself for six hours, they would be most welcome to come back then. If I have addressed their points sufficiently, perhaps some of those who have tabled amendments may see fit not to press them to Divisions, but otherwise, I feel I have addressed the points sufficiently for now.”
“Again, this issue was mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for Newton Aycliffe and Spennymoor, and it also comes back to where I started the discussion about the nature of a nationalisation. While the Government in this situation would own a steel undertaking, and as the main shareholder in the business would have the opportunity to set the direction and appropriate strategic objectives, it is not the Government’s aim that the steel companies would then become an extension of the civil service, as amazing as my civil servants are. Instead, steel undertakings should be run by those who are knowledgeable and skilled in the industry, as we have seen at Sheffield Forgemasters and, as we heard, at the semiconductor factory at Octric.”
“The Government agree with the sentiment—we have had wide consultation with stakeholders—but there is a practical reality and in particular a commercial consideration for the exercise of the Bill’s powers. It is therefore not possible for us to accept that new clause. New clause 3 relates to the detail of a jobs and industrial transition strategy, which my hon. Friend the Member for Newton Aycliffe and Spennymoor asked a specific question about. I reassure Parliament that from a skills perspective, the Government will assess any impacts of a transfer on jobs, skills and local communities. In fact, that is an incredibly important part of why we would seek to intervene at all. Following an acquisition, the company’s objectives will be published as part of the shareholder framework document. Finally, I will move on to new clause 5.”
“From the Government’s perspective, there is certainly no intention to disadvantage Northern Ireland. The unique position that Northern Ireland holds is enabling it to attract additional investment above and beyond. In fact, the economic growth rate in Northern Ireland is incredibly impressive, and I look forward to seeing that when I visit in two or three weeks’ time. Having addressed the amendments, I will move on to some of the new clauses. First, I acknowledge the incredibly constructive dialogue I have had with the hon. Member for Richmond Park (Sarah Olney) in preparing for the Bill and the tabling of her amendments. New clause 2 would place a requirement on the Secretary of State to consult an advisory committee as part of his decision-making process.”
“Clean energy is a huge economic opportunity for every corner of the country. Our clean energy jobs plan highlighted 860,000 high-quality jobs across the whole of our nation by 2030—jobs that young people will not need to leave their home town for.”
“My hon. Friend is right to point out the vulnerability to oil price shocks—Wales has been identified as a particularly vulnerable area. Like me, he has paid close attention to the report by the former Member for Darlington, Alan Milburn, on the need to provide opportunities for young people; in fact, I believe he has invited Alan Milburn to a meeting of his all-party parliamentary group later this week. The clean energy industry is one of the industries that will provide good-quality jobs, and in the Department we are using grants and procurement to ensure that we have strong trade union engagement.”
“The hon. Lady raises an important point about managing the transition, and that is certainly what this Government are doing. I just want to challenge the point about the number of jobs being created by the number being lost. I know that the Opposition are always keen to quote the research from Robert Gordon University, but it does point to more jobs being created than lost. Actually, the recent report from the Confederation of British Industry now says that 1.1 million jobs in our economy are now dependent on net zero. But clearly, we do need to support the transition—it will not happen on its own. That is why, through our North sea transition funding and the opportunities through our clean energy technical colleges, we are providing that opportunity for people.”
“The Government and I recognise the importance of the food and drink sector. My hon. Friend is right to point out that the sector is not included in the British industrial competitiveness scheme, but our boiler upgrade scheme does apply to these industries. One thing that I am doing is looking at the role of third-party intermediaries. The Department intends to provide a regulatory role for Ofgem, and subject to parliamentary time, we should be bringing forward measures that will benefit the food and drink industry.”
“I have to say that caring for the transition of our oil and gas workers is not something on which the Opposition have a monopoly, because only the Government have taken any action. The previous party when in government oversaw a decline in the North sea and did nothing to support a transition. This Government are supporting the transition in the North sea. Through our tiebacks policy, we are ensuring that we can make the best use of the available resources, but by continuing to invest in our cheapest form of energy and by ensuring that the supply chains are here and that the skills remain here, we will create those opportunities for people to work in those areas of the UK.”
“Clearly, on a personal level, I say to the hon. Member’s constituent that I fully understand the position she is in, having lived through such transitions myself. But the difference with this Government is that we are taking care to ensure that communities are supported—1.1 million jobs now in net zero, £105 billion of gross value added and £90 billion invested in clean energy industries since this Government came to power. We are building the British industry of the future and attracting investment to do that. We are creating the jobs of the future, while the Conservatives sat and oversaw a decline.”
“I think we have found something on which we can agree, which is that we need to invest in renewables further and faster. I look forward to those on the Opposition Front Bench supporting our clean power 2030 plan.”
“Supporting businesses with the cost of energy is a priority for the Government. We have expanded support through the British industrial competitiveness scheme and increased discounts on electricity network charges, and we stand ready to act if market conditions worsen due to the middle east crisis.”
“In the specific case that the hon. Gentleman mentions, if the company is operating a ferrous foundry, that will be part of the British industrial competitiveness scheme. If it is a non-ferrous foundry, he may wish to share further details with me, because I have had representations on both copper and aluminium foundries, which I am looking at very carefully.”
“We are concerned about the ability of businesses to connect to the grid, both to expand and to invest in new production facilities. Part of the work we did on reordering the grid queue was to help with that, but my colleague the Minister for Energy has commissioned an Ofgem end-to-end review so that we can bear down on the cost of grid connections.”