Samantha Niblett
MP for South Derbyshire · Labour · United Kingdom
“Regular surgeries and monthly coffee mornings are among the most valuable parts of my role. They allow me to listen, understand what matters to people and ensure that the work we do, both in the constituency and in this place, reflects their experiences.”
“We did not stop the Stanton incinerator, too many SEND families are still battling a system that lets them down and many of my constituents continue to face challenges with fleecehold, inappropriate development and poor roads.”
“It is a privilege to contribute to this debate in memory of Sir David Amess. Sir David embodied what it means to be a great constituency MP. He understood that our greatest responsibility is not just what happens in this Chamber, but what happens in our communities, our surgeries and our conversations with the people who put their trust i…”
“I want to put on record my thanks to the Prime Minister, not only for turning the Labour party around and getting us elected, but for helping me to be elected as the Member for South Derbyshire so that I can represent constituents of mine such as Abbey Wright, whom I met this week to talk about her beloved dad.”
“Then there is Alfred, who is just 10, and his mum Emma, who we helped access funding for specialist therapies. There is Kaeson and his family, whose mobility support was restored, and families who have secured vital medical appointments, specialist equipment or simply someone to help them navigate an overwhelming system.”
“Between us, we have experience in the NHS, business, education, the arts and the charitable sector, but we all share one thing: a determination to help people.”
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“I had not intended to say what I am about to say, before the bit that I did intend to say, but, inspired by the Minister’s comment that coming out matters, I thought I would use this very public forum to say that I am a bisexual woman. Some people know; some do not. I do not wear it like a badge any more than I would expect a heterosexual person to walk around saying, “Hey, guess what, I’m attracted to men”—or women, depending what gender they are, or otherwise. The reason that I feel compelled to mention that publicly, before I get on to the good bit of my speech—please, somebody, intervene on me—is that I held back on showing my support for the LGBTQ+ community on my Facebook page for fear of retribution ahead of the local elections, when a certain party got into power at Derbyshire county council.”
“It is an honour to speak in this important debate on Pride, not just as the Member of Parliament for South Derbyshire but as someone who has seen at first hand the power of community when it chooses inclusion over exclusion and love over fear. This past Saturday, I had the privilege of attending a truly fantastic Pride event at the Collective Hub in Swadlincote. The Collective Hub is a brilliant community space that fosters creativity, belonging and support for people of all ages. The Pride celebration it hosted was testament to everything that makes our community proud: diversity, resilience and joy. I want to pay particular tribute to Mikey, who leads the hub with passion, care and unwavering dedication. His work does not go unnoticed. He and all those who supported the event created a safe and welcoming space.”
“I thank the hon. Member for her intervention—and for giving me an extra minute, in which I would like to talk about my community. I have one main hope about saying what I have just said and being openly bisexual. My daughter is so straight—it is so disappointing— [ Laughter. ] But if there are girls and women in South Derbyshire and across the country who think, “Oh God, it is okay to love a woman, to kiss a woman, to be intimate with a woman—and she’s said it, so it’s okay that I do,” then good. I say to them: take that comfort, and if you want to talk to me about it, please feel free to reach out. Now I am going to talk about my constituency.”
“I absolutely join the hon. Member in thanking the people in his constituency who do the same. Mikey’s work does not go unnoticed. He and all those who supported the event created a safe, welcoming space for LGBTQ+ people in South Derbyshire to be visible, celebrated and, perhaps most importantly, to be themselves. Amid the colour and celebration, we must recognise a deeper undercurrent of concern, particularly among our transgender constituents. I have heard directly from individuals who are frightened about the tone of national conversations surrounding their rights, safety and dignity. These are not abstract issues; these are people in our towns and villages—our neighbours, friends and family members. They deserve the same rights, respect and freedoms as anyone else.”
“In the face of rising hostility and misinformation, we in this House have a duty to lead with compassion and courage. To the LGBTQ+ community in South Derbyshire, we see you, we hear you, and we stand with you.”
“I completely agree with my hon. Friend that allyship is important. I am the proud mum to a very disappointingly straight daughter, and she is a brilliant ally. I hope that the next generation will continue to be exactly like that and will create the atmosphere that is needed to support those who we stand side-by-side with. In South Derbyshire, I believe the message is clear: we want inclusion, not exclusion. We want a society where someone being themselves is not a political act but simply a human one. Pride is not just about celebration; it is about commitment—commitment to equality, justice and standing up for those whose voices have too often been marginalised. Let us remember that Pride began as a protest. It is a reminder that the freedoms we now celebrate were hard-won and must be protected, not rolled back.”
“Other countries look to us to lead the way. A crisis is at the door, but we have an opportunity to be on the front foot, ahead of other countries experiencing the same challenges and watching us closely. This country always steps up in times of crisis. The UK can and must take a leading position on the fair use of AI in the creative industries and help to protect our creatives and their work, which are rightly celebrated across the world. Engagement with global players in the ecosystem is important, but we should also be far more focused on the UK’s home-grown talent and inventive mindset to solve the biggest puzzles. We can move quickly when we need to, and my message to the Secretary of State and to this House is that we really need to, and have to.”
“There is a technology challenge in the creative industries that needs addressing now, which is why it is great to hear the news today. This is an emergency, and the emergence of AI in recent times has created opportunity and new threats for creatives, who rightly worry that their work is often appropriated by AI without reward or recognition. However, we can be a pioneer in this field, developing trusted solutions that protect creatives and set the standards that others will follow. We have demonstrated our ability to do that in the past with fintech, in which the UK holds a 10% global market share. The UK’s secret sauce is a unique blend of not just our brilliant talent, light-touch regulation, common business language and soft power, but our common law, which is used by other countries. We are an exemplar.”
“Attendance was so senior and strong because after the global financial crisis the UK had to move quickly to a new model, and hence fintech was born. A lot of great work was done in this space by the Conservatives when they were in government, even if they could not get their act together over AI and keep the attention of AI companies. Government regulators, incumbents, entrepreneurs and investors worked together with alacrity to create an ecosystem that led the world into fintech. We created tens of thousands of new jobs, brought in tens of millions in inward investment and created more than 20 billion-dollar companies. We are in the middle of London Tech Week, which is happening a few miles away at Olympia and was attended by the Prime Minister.”
“I draw the attention of the House to my being the founder of Labour: Women in Tech and the co-chair of the all-party parliamentary group on financial technology, and to my career in data and technology prior to becoming an MP. I welcome the Government’s new approach to innovate and expedite the process and to leverage the expertise of both Houses and key stakeholders. I thank them for their work on that. Just under a month ago, the UK hosted FinTech Week and the global fintech forum, where businesses and Government leaders from around the world came to participate in critical conversations about the importance of the trusted global financial services ecosystem for the physical and digital worlds.”
“The Just the Tonic comedy festival is coming to South Derbyshire in July, the festival having chosen Elvaston castle as its venue—a place I am helping the local parish council to save as publicly owned. Who does not love comedy? Yet despite being nationally loved and generating billions across live digital streaming and more, comedy remains an economically under-leveraged sector, excluded from arts funding, Government reports and the Creative Industries Council itself. Using comedy in social prescribing could help us save billions on mental healthcare, and I am working with Lou Jackson of Craic House—that is C-R-A-I-C—on a tech platform to help comedians. Will the Leader of the House dedicate time for a debate on our comedy industry?”
“I welcome wholeheartedly the announcement, not least because it means that almost 4,000 children in my constituency will benefit from free, healthy school meals, saving parents almost £500 a year. That is in addition to the breakfast clubs, of which we have two on the early adopter scheme. Does the Minister agree that as grateful as we are to wonderful people including the bean man, who can often be seen in Willington, Repton and surrounding areas collecting food for food banks, this is a step towards lifting people out of poverty so that we will no longer need food banks?”
“In common with the hon. Gentleman, I welcome renewable energy. Safety is hugely important. In my constituency there are lots of battery sites that are being placed in pockets around beautiful little villages because there are connections to the national grid. Because of the potential fire hazards and possible toxic run-off into local rivers, does the hon. Gentleman agree that we should prioritise brownfield sites as opposed to such pockets around pretty little villages?”
“I thank the Secretary of State for mentioning Kate Bush; she is the love of my life and has been since I was nine. We have repeatedly spoken about the need for a tech solution to address this issue. I have a background in data and technology and have been meeting several companies that seem between them to have a possible tech solution. Will the Secretary of State meet me and them to discuss it?”
“I was 11 years old when my mum first tried to take her own life; she was sectioned several times over the coming years, and until I was an adult. How will this new way of treating people and making that part of the community, as well as looking after the children of those impacted, be measured over time so that we know it is successful?”
“It is wonderful to hear my hon. Friend talk about the importance of copyright and the fact that we have existing laws that we can use, but I wonder whether he is aware of the growing concern in industry about the risk of expansive US-style fair use principles creeping into UK practice and what we might do to secure our safeguards. We must not allow foreign interpretations of fair use to erode our copyright laws.”
“On the point of finding a solution in the round, if no credible technical solution is in sight, will the Minister confirm what non-technical legislative or regulatory measures the Government are considering to protect rights holders in the interim?”
“The recent decision by the Supreme Court that “sex” in the Equality Act 2010 refers to biological sex at birth, regardless of whether someone holds a gender recognition certificate or identifies as of a different gender, has already left many trans people feeling hurt and unseen. Does the shadow Minister agree with me that any ID and digital verification service must consider trans people, not risk making them more likely to feel that their country is forgetting who they are?”
“I say to the Minister, who I know truly cares about the future of creatives and tech businesses in the UK—that is absolutely not in question—that if he cannot accept new clause 14 as tabled, he should take the opportunity as the Bill goes back to the Lords to bring forward clauses that would allow him to implement granular transparency mechanisms in the next six to 12 months. I and many on the Labour Benches—as well as the entire creative industries and others who do not want what is theirs simply to be taken from them—stand ready to support the development of workable solutions at pace. It can never be too soon to protect the livelihoods of UK citizens, nor to build trust between creators and the technology that would not exist without their hard work.”
“They insist that they do not see the AI copyright debate as a zero-sum game, but trading away the property rights of 2.4 million UK creatives—70% of whom live outside London—to secure tech investment would be just that. There are no insurmountable technical barriers to transparency in the same way that there are no opt-outs. The key barrier to transparency is the desire of tech firms to obscure their illegal behaviour. It has been shown that Meta employees proactively sought, in their own words, “to remove data that is clearly marked as pirated/stolen” from the data that they used from the pirate shadow library, LibGen. If they have technical means to identify copyright content to cover their own backs, surely they have the technical means to be honest with creators about the use of their valuable work.”
“That is why big tech objects to transparency, just as it objects to any transparency requirements, whether they are focused on online safety, digital competition or copyright. It would make it accountable to the individuals and businesses that it extracts value from. The AI companies further argue that providing transparency would compromise their trade secrets, but that is another red herring. Nobody is asking for a specific recipe of how the models are trained: they are asking only to be able to query the ingredients that have gone into it. Generative AI models are made up of billions of data points, and it is the weighting of data that is a model’s secret sauce. The Government can do myriad things around skills, access to finance, procurement practices and energy costs to support AI firms building and deploying models in the UK.”
“Even if the Government insist on pursuing this route, it would be a dereliction of duty to fail to enforce our existing laws in the intervening period. Big tech firms claim that transparency is not feasible, but that is a red herring. These companies are absolutely capable of letting rights holders know whether their individual works have been used, as OpenAI has been ordered to do in the Authors Guild v . OpenAI copyright case. Requiring transparency without the need for a court order will avoid wasting court time and swiftly establish a legal precedent, making the legal risk of copyright infringement too great for AI firms to continue with the mass theft that has taken place.”
“I care about this issue because, as the Creative Rights in AI Coalition has said: “The UK has the potential to be the global destination for generative firms seeking to license the highest-quality creative content. But to unlock that immense value, we must act now to stimulate a dynamic licensing market: the government must use this legislation to introduce meaningful transparency provisions.” Although I am sure that the Government’s amendments are well meant, they set us on a timeline for change to the copyright framework that would take us right to the tail end of this Parliament. Many in this House, including myself, do not believe that an effective opt-out mechanism will ever develop; I know it is not in the Bill right now, but it was proposed in the AI and copyright consultation.”
“I am pleased to speak in this debate in support of new clause 14, in the name of my hon. Friend the Member for Leeds Central and Headingley (Alex Sobel), to which I have added my name. The clause would give our media and creative sectors urgently needed transparency over the use of copyright works by AI models. I am sure that my speech will come as no surprise to the Minister. I care about this issue because of, not in spite of, my belief in the power of AI and its potential to transform our society and our economy for the better. I care because the adoption of novel technologies by businesses and consumers requires trust in the practices of firms producing the tech.”
“I have the privilege of taking part in the armed forces parliamentary scheme with the RAF this year, allowing me a small glimpse of the professionalism and sacrifice that defines our Royal Air Force personnel to this day. As we commemorate VE Day and VJ Day, let us remember those who fought and fell not only in victory, but in hope, and let us resolve always to be worthy of the freedom that they gave us.”
“I am so grateful to Shelly Lynn, who leads tours of the cemetery, for sharing those names with me. I have written to the Secretary of State for Defence and to the Minister for Veterans and People with their names in a roll call, asking them to join me in sharing our gratitude for their service. Each of their names is a reminder of a family left behind, a future never fulfilled. What strikes me most is their youth. So many were in their early 20s, some just teenagers. They had dreams, careers and families ahead of them, and they gave all of that up for us. For me, this roll call carries an even more personal note. Many brave men and women served in the Royal Air Force as volunteer reserves.”
“I would also like to recognise Ken Ash from Repton, who served with the Royal Signals, and my own grandad, Frederick, or Fred, Palmer, who served in the Royal Logistics Corps in the Army. Winston Churchill said that the surrender of Nazi Germany was “the signal for the greatest outburst of joy in the history of mankind”, and while for many that was true, for countless others, the end of the war was marked by quiet sorrow for those who never came home. Across the UK and overseas, the graves of those who made the ultimate sacrifice are lovingly maintained by the Commonwealth War Graves Commission. We have one such war grave in Swadlincote, in Church Gresley cemetery. Thanks to Glyn Jackson and Joanne Abbassi, we have a folder of the names of those who rest in peace there.”
“As we mark the 80th anniversary of Victory in Europe Day and later this summer celebrate the anniversary of Victory over Japan Day, I am reminded of the extraordinary bravery shown by so many, including our very own Ray Statham, from Newhall, in my constituency. Eighty years ago, Ray was in the English channel supporting the D-day landings; now, as he approaches his 103rd birthday, we celebrate not only his longevity but the legacy of service he represents. Ray served aboard HMS Indefatigable with the Royal Navy, and I know the whole House will want to join me in wishing him a very happy birthday and offering him our deepest thanks for his service to our country.”
“It can be done; companies including Adobe, 273 Ventures and Flawless AI are doing it. Experts have made it clear that no opt-out models work. We have an opportunity to be world leaders—let us lead.”
“What stifles innovation is a regulatory vacuum where only the largest, best resourced firms can afford to operate in the grey areas of the law. We should not accept a model where creativity becomes collateral damage in the pursuit of speed or short-term profit for shareholders. Governments must prioritise the concerns of citizens. Let us establish a clear, transparent and enforceable framework for the use of copyrighted content in AI training, and let us not waste any time or kick this can down the road by waiting for the results of the copyright and AI consultation. Let us act now. Let us amend the Data (Use and Access) Bill to ensure that companies providing generative AI services in the UK must comply with UK copyright law and be transparent about the data fuelling their models. After all, they should know what data they are utilising.”
“That is not hypothetical; it is happening now. In the last week, we have seen some big names in tech say that they want IP law to be ripped up altogether. I wonder how they would feel if tech firms with deeper pockets and bigger legal teams than theirs decided to simply take what they have. Pulling up the ladder of IP law may no longer seem such an attractive prospect. Let us be absolutely clear: copyright is not an inconvenience or a technicality. It is the legal and moral framework that ensures that creators are rewarded for their contributions. Some people will argue that requiring AI companies to comply with copyright law would hinder innovation, but the opposite is true: legal certainty enables innovation.”
“The United Kingdom is positioning itself as a global leader in AI, and rightly so—AI has the potential to transform every sector of our economy, from healthcare to transport and from education to climate science—but, as we drive innovation forward, we must also ensure that our values are aligned. If we want to be the best place in the world to start, scale and grow an AI company, we must also be the most trusted. Trust is not built through ambition alone; it is built through transparency, fairness, respect for the rule of law and the protection of intellectual property. At present, many of the most powerful AI models have been trained on vast quantities of copyrighted material—books, articles, art, music and software—and often without the consent, knowledge or compensation of the people who created it.”
“It is an honour to serve under your chairship, Ms McVey, and I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Bury North (Mr Frith) for securing this crucial debate—a great way to spend his birthday. I want to draw attention to the fact that my partner works in publishing. My background is not in publishing or the creative industries, but in the data and tech industry, and I am excited by what it can help us to achieve. I rise to speak not only about artificial intelligence, but about the kind of country we want to be in the decades ahead. We are at a crossroads.”
“Does my hon. Friend agree that increasing the participation in retail investment of women, who make up more than 50% of the UK’s population, is crucial not only for gender equality, but for the UK’s economic resilience? At present, women in the UK are significantly less likely than men to invest in stocks, individual savings accounts or pensions, despite often achieving comparable or better returns when they do. By addressing the gender investment gap through education, accessible financial products and tailored support, we can empower more women to grow their wealth independently, reduce long-term financial inequality and boost the overall vibrancy of the UK retail investment market.”
“I thank my hon. Friend for giving way—we are near enough neighbours in our neck of the woods, aren’t we? We often see digital skills gaps in areas of deprivation. In Swadlincote, in my constituency, one in four children are living in poverty. It is an ex-mining community—that is deeply embedded in who they are. Does my hon. Friend agree that when the Government are looking at upskilling for jobs for the future, they should prioritise ex-coalfield mining communities?”
“What is happening today is something that mining communities like Swadlincote, in my constituency of South Derbyshire, will be feeling deeply in their souls. It is something that they could have only dreamed of back in the 1980s, when they wanted a Government who had their backs and prioritised the national interest. Instead, they had a Conservative Government who sold them down the river. Does the Secretary of State agree that this is a pivotal moment in our history, because we have a Labour Government prioritising our people and the national interest?”
“Even when there are claims that new tech mean zero emissions, and when some of the outputs from incinerators can support sustainable practices such as creating sustainable aviation fuel from plastics as the aviation industry targets net zero by 2050, the truth is that where materials are burnt there will always be concern about the release of harmful chemicals and emissions into the atmosphere. We must challenge ourselves to think beyond incineration and invest in a future where waste is managed sustainably and the environment protected for generations to come.”
“In terms of local economic benefits in South Derbyshire, we have been told that the proposed incinerator promises over £200 million in investment and 39 skilled jobs. However, nothing more of benefit is being offered to the local community, which will have an eyesore to look at for something that does not solve our county’s waste problems. It is claimed that it will process 186,000 tonnes of residual waste. That still leaves us with almost 564,000 tonnes of waste going to landfill, so it is hard for people to believe that yet another incinerator is the answer. Are we not better to prioritise reducing waste in our county, region and country?”
“In Derbyshire, the proximity principle—which emphasises that waste should be treated as close as possible to its source—has been undermined by these two existing incinerators not solving the problem. We therefore need to transport waste over long distances to facilities outside of Derbyshire. Sending waste elsewhere not only impacts our carbon footprint but contradicts the very principles outlined in our local waste plan. We are exporting our waste to distant incinerators, including to northern Europe, and in doing so we miss an opportunity to truly address our local waste management issues. That is not to say that we need incinerators in local towns, as is being called out today.”
“Even more shamefully, Derbyshire is the worst-offending county in our region, with almost 750,000 tonnes being sent to landfill and just over 308,000 tonnes being sent to incinerators. We produce a lot of waste. A challenge in South Derbyshire is that existing incinerator facilities at Drakelow and in neighbouring Derby have struggled. The latter has rightly been mothballed since 2019, having never worked at all. The former has failed to reach its full potential because it is no secret that gasification technology, as used in these plants, has had a “litany of failures”, as described by experts including United Kingdom Without Incineration Network.”
“It is an honour to serve under your chairship, Ms Lewell. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Derby South (Baggy Shanker), my constituency neighbour, for securing this debate and giving me the opportunity to address this important issue. I want to voice the concerns of some of my constituents about the proposed new incinerator in Swadlincote. I have met the lead campaigner against it and—for balance—the two companies that want to build and run it, so I want to start by acknowledging that we have a significant waste management challenge in our county. This has been identified and reported on by DEFRA. No campaigner against the incinerator denies this. Shamefully, the east midlands is the second worst region in the country for the amount of waste sent to landfill.”
“I was invited to the National Memorial Arboretum for Remembrance Day. I proudly watched my hon. Friend lay a wreath, just as I was proud to lay a wreath on behalf of fallen men and women in my neighbouring constituency. As I am serving on the armed forces parliamentary scheme, I am growing in awe for the men and women who serve in the forces, including those I get to meet through the Royal British Legion. Members of the Swadlincote district branch raised over £52,000 for the poppy appeal, and they helped to commemorate the 80th anniversary of D-day. They play a huge role in the local community. Does my hon. Friend agree that the Royal British Legion plays a significant role in ensuring that we never forget the sacrifices made by those who have served?”
“The reams of families who contact me for support deserve better, and the countless families across Derbyshire who are fighting to secure the right provision for their children deserve so much better.”
“That forces many families into lengthy and costly tribunals that can take over a year to conclude. Valuable placements in appropriate schools are lost due to local authority delays, leaving children stranded and without education. Consider my constituents Theresa and Nathan. Their daughter has cerebral palsy, autism and attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. Transitioning into mainstream secondary school severely affected her mental health, leading to self-harm and suicidal thoughts. Delays in her EHCP process meant that she lost a place in a suitable special setting. At 14 years old, she is on antidepressants and has remained out of education since January 2024—that is over a year. Theresa, Nathan and their daughter deserve better.”
“In some cases, SEND caseworkers have left post without informing families, leaving them emailing outdated contacts in desperation and without response. Gaps in specialist provision mean that many children, particularly those with social, emotional and mental health needs, are not receiving the support they are entitled to. Under section 19 of the Education Act 1996, if a child is out of school for 15 days or more, the local authority must provide suitable full-time education. My constituents tell me that this is not happening. There is a lack of alternative provision, a lack of tutoring options and a lack of accountability. Despite parents, schools and professionals agreeing that mainstream settings often cannot meet SEND children’s needs, the local authority continues to name unsuitable placements on education, health and care plans.”
“What I had not expected was that after seven months in office, a third of all my constituency casework would relate to SEND—and the number continues to climb. In my inbox, at my surgeries and on the doorsteps across South Derbyshire, parents tell me heartbreaking stories about the declining mental health of their children, who are out of education or stranded in inappropriate settings. Many parents, including those working in education, describe extreme stress, financial hardship and lost work time as they navigate a broken system. Others who are less familiar with the process find it totally overwhelming. Meanwhile, their children’s mental health deteriorates as they are left without the support they desperately need. A lack of communication from Derbyshire county council leaves parents feeling unheard and their children forgotten.”
“I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Amber Valley (Linsey Farnsworth) for securing this crucial Adjournment debate. As she rightly indicates, SEND provision in Derbyshire has reached crisis point. Her point about Conservative-run Derbyshire county council’s unspent SEND funding, and the heartbreaking consequences for families, is sadly all too familiar and echoes so many of the stories brought to me by my own constituents, who are in desperate need of support. The scale of this issue is staggering. Throughout my election campaign, it was no secret that SEND would be a key issue for me if I was elected. A week after I was elected, I held my first community SEND meeting, which was packed.”
“I agree, but frankly it would be great if Derbyshire county council could get the basics right. Although my team and I will always work constructively with the local authority to right the wrongs endured by SEND children and families across South Derbyshire, the council’s chronic mismanagement of this crisis is indefensible. Schools are struggling, parents are out of work and their children are left without opportunities to thrive. I stand firmly with my hon. Friend and fellow Labour MPs across Derbyshire in holding Conservative-led Derbyshire county council to account and calling on it to spend the millions of pounds in unallocated funding to make this right. The status quo cannot continue.”
“Will the Leader of the House please consider having a debate in Government time on where we should agree to build new incinerators? There is certainly no sense in building another one in South Derbyshire.”
“In South Derbyshire, we have an incinerator in Drakelow. Just outside my patch, in neighbouring Derby, there is an incinerator in Sinfin. Despite that, there has been an application to build another incinerator 9 miles from the one in Sinfin and just 4.8 miles from the one in Drakelow. It has already been rejected by both the district and county councils and, most importantly, by my constituents. Community Against the Swadlincote Incinerator is a data-driven and facts-based campaign led by Dr Tracey Wond. It is not just that we do not want the incinerator; given the numbers, we do not need it, especially as it would not be significant infrastructure of national importance and the Government are seeking to reduce waste.”