Jonathan Davies
MP for Mid Derbyshire · Labour · United Kingdom
“The Minister was right when she said that climate change drives nature loss, and nature loss drives climate change. We are seeing the effects of that on people’s health, the economy and global security, so I welcome the work that the Government are doing to address that.”
“One in five people experience domestic violence in their lifetime—around one in four women, and one in six or seven men—but it is thought that only 20% of it is reported. It is also thought that there is significant under-reporting of the domestic violence experienced by men, due to social stigma.”
“I am grateful to His Majesty’s Opposition for calling this debate today, as it gives me an opportunity to talk about a survey of young people that I did last year.”
“I really hope that it is a success. I know that in Cornwall—my hon. Friend’s part of the world—there will be a great many businesses and visitors benefiting from the scheme. Alan Milburn’s report, which highlighted that a million young people are out of work, is something that I am struggling to comprehend.”
“On summer jobs, it is particularly important to highlight our support for hospitality, including cutting business rates for pubs and live music venues by 15%, which will be followed by a two-year freeze. We are also increasing the hospitality support fund to £10 million, which will really help those sectors.”
“I thank the hon. Member for her intervention. My focus is on the people of Mid Derbyshire, but I am sure that the people of Clacton will hold their representative to account in the appropriate way.”
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“My hon. Friend could be describing my constituency of Mid Derbyshire, many parts of which are poorly served by buses. Does she agree that the way forward is to give local leaders the power to determine routes and support them to work with private companies?”
“While I could spend my full time today waxing lyrical about the importance of libraries, I want to think more specifically about the needs they meet, more strategically about their role in delivering Government priorities, and more precisely about the value they contribute to the economy. Everybody knows that the public purse strings are tighter than they once were, but despite facing real-terms cuts of 49% since 2010, public libraries continue to produce immense educational, economic and social value. They have adapted in ways that William Ewart could not have imagined.”
“Opposition was rooted in the belief that knowledge was a volatile force, too potent for “the rough and poor”, who were seen as unfit to grasp or use it responsibly. Libraries, opponents warned, would become breeding grounds for unrest and lecture halls of unhealthy agitation, threatening social order. There is a sweet irony, then, in the face of an explosion of misinformation and a rapidly changing world, that libraries have become a rare beacon of trustworthy information where we can build our knowledge and skills with confidence. It may be that our democracy depends on it.”
“I thank the Chartered Institute of Library and Information Professionals for supporting me to understand the challenge faced by libraries and articulate the need for change. It is good to see some friends from CILIP in the Public Gallery today. The public library as we know it has been shaped and moulded by the laws and motions enacted in this place. It is 175 years since the Member of Parliament William Ewart, against much opposition, led the charge to introduce the Public Libraries Act 1850. The Act compelled boroughs to establish free public libraries, and it was the first legislative step in the creation of an enduring national institution that provides universal free access to trustworthy information.”
“I beg to move, That this House has considered the future of public libraries. It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Dowd. Public libraries are at the heart of our communities. They have incredible value, as I am sure we will hear from colleagues today, but they also have an important and underutilised role in delivering the Government’s plan for change. I will talk briefly about the diverse and important roles that public libraries play in our society and the profound risks they face, and finally I will urge the Minister to work with colleagues to implement and go boldly beyond the recommendations of the Sanderson review. That review, commissioned by the previous Government and published last year, calls on Government to develop a national strategy for public libraries.”
“I do agree. We need more money for libraries, but we also need to find ways of collaborating and innovating, so that we can do more with less. The hon. Member makes a good point about rural communities; I thank her for that.”
“I believe the Minister referred to libraries as “cultural diamonds” and I could not agree more. Baroness Twycross has noted that they are “one of the last non-transactional spaces in our communities.” —[ Official Report, House of Lords, 12 September 2024; Vol. 839, c. GC140.] It is hugely encouraging to see such clear appreciation and understanding of public libraries at the heart of Government.”
“I know the hon. Lady is a champion for rural communities and her constituents. The Government are looking carefully at public transport, but a national strategy for public libraries, which I will come to, could draw upon the issue she raises. Many of our libraries have quietly evolved into digital learning centres, enterprise hubs and pillars of community wellbeing. Across the country brilliant initiatives have emerged, such as the Glass Box in Taunton, where people of all ages develop skills in 3D printing and programming in library spaces. There are initiatives such as Gloucestershire’s library-led programme tackling loneliness among older people. Those are models that should be shared. As many as 13.7 million adults used a library last year, not just for books but to study, get online and sometimes as a place to feel safe.”
“Almost one in five English councils will rely on exceptional financial support from central Government this financial year. Although local authorities have a statutory requirement to provide a comprehensive and efficient library service, that requirement is vague and untested, leaving the service at risk of being targeted for savings and efficiencies. I do not envy local authorities for the difficult choices they have to make. We have a false dichotomy, however, between long-term ambition and short-term crisis.”
“I agree with my hon. Friend, who makes a good point. People might not think to use the library, but if something else gets them through the door it might prompt them to use it again in future. Despite the hard work done on mitigation, adaptation and commercialisation, cuts to public services since 2010 have meant that, tragically, public libraries are disappearing. Since 2010 we have lost around 276 static libraries in England, although that could be a substantial underestimate, as we are losing about 40 a year. That is not to mention the loss of good jobs for the trained professionals who run them. That is clearly unsustainable, and must not be allowed to continue. We know that the situation in local authorities is acute, with a number of councils issuing section 114 notices.”
“It is wonderful to see so many Members from across the House in the Chamber to talk about why public libraries are so very important. I am excited to hear about the best practice from the areas they represent, the challenges their communities have faced and the life-changing impact that libraries have had on their constituents. I look forward to working with colleagues to deliver on the amazing promise of these truly amazing, special and unique places today and for generations to come.”
“I hope the Government will reflect on that modest change. I shall be grateful if the Minister would reflect on the Sanderson review and advise us on the Government’s plans to deliver on its recommendations, including by providing a timeline of any actions and telling us whether he supports a national plan for libraries. I shall also be grateful if he tells us what conversations he is having with CILIP, the British Library, local authorities and representatives of the libraries sector about how we can work together to improve public library provision. Finally, it would be wonderful to know what representations the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport has made to the Treasury to articulate the value of libraries and ask for more money for those vital resources.”
“They include the creation of a libraries laureate to champion the sector, automatic enrolment for children in the libraries run by their local council, support for the network of library volunteers who do so much more for their communities, and awareness days or branding for local libraries to tap into. When the Sanderson review was published, its recommendations were welcomed by the British Library, which has convening power and significant influence in the wider sector. Based on the huge variety of activities and services that libraries deliver, it is clear that a national strategy must be cross-governmental. Even so, that work needs one person to hold the pen. Industry experts are concerned that libraries no longer appear in a ministerial title, and they would greatly appreciate it if that were restored.”
“Other institutions, such as schools, jobcentres and the NHS, should know what libraries are contributing to their work, and so should central Government, but without reliable data we do not have a full picture of the value our libraries are delivering, nor can we fully understand what vulnerable or disadvantaged people and communities stand to lose when their libraries start to close. Better data would also allow us to understand the regional inequalities that doubtless exist in the distribution of services. That is why a key recommendation of the Sanderson review was to establish a national data hub to serve as the evidence base for a national strategy. Much of the rest of the Sanderson review’s recommendations can be implemented at little cost.”
“A national strategy could help a child to get a better start in life, a parent to receive the support they need, a jobseeker to find a quiet and supportive place to search for work, somebody struggling to understand an important but confusing form that they need explaining to them, an entrepreneur to find a new niche, or an older person to safely pay a bill. All that is in addition to satisfying a thirst for knowledge, which seeks to understand and further the human condition. Many local authorities already calculate the contributions that libraries make to public health initiatives, digital inclusion, adult education, tackling isolation and so much more, but too often that work is done to identify where the least harmful savings can be made.”
“It could show who can use them, the extent of their catalogues and the range of skills held by the professionals behind them. There are opportunities to use libraries for a range of activities, including commercial ones, which would help them deliver increased public value. A national database could support collaboration between library and information professionals and allow the Government to better use the full portfolio of those services to support their skills and community cohesion agendas. That is why I echo calls from the other place for the Government to develop a full national strategy for public libraries, backed by robust data. Not only would that intervention produce savings by reducing demand on other services, but it would unlock significantly more value than it would cost to implement.”
“I urge the new Reform UK leaders of Derbyshire county council to recognise the value of local libraries and find innovative ways to work together, collaborating to help them grow. I know the Minister will not be able to commit to putting more money into libraries, without a strong evidence base for what it will achieve. That strikes at the heart of the problem. We do not know what the extent of public library provision is. We do not know where it is, what it does and what it could do. Regulated healthcare services are listed in a national database, with contact details for their leaders and information about what is being provided. A similar resource could be developed for libraries across local authorities, schools, colleges, universities, healthcare settings and prisons.”
“My hon. Friend is absolutely right. When the Conservatives ran Derbyshire county council until a matter of days ago, they signed off £625,000 of cuts to the library budget over four years. They did keep all the libraries open and they removed reservation fees for much of the stock. Credit where it is due—I welcome that. Savings were achieved through reduced opening hours, as my hon. Friend said. Reducing opening hours may be a difficult decision that some councils need to take to keep libraries open, but we know that the impact of those decisions will disproportionately be felt by people who already face a lack of opportunity, which is also true of library closures. As my hon. Friend said, Derbyshire now has a Reform-led council. We know very little about Reform’s priorities for the authority or how it will run services.”
“A lot of good work is coming through, but there are aspects of the Sanderson review that are valuable, and I believe that many of those aspects could be implemented very cheaply or at almost no cost. That might be something that the sector could do itself, but with the help of the convening power of the Government. I would be grateful if the messages we have heard from across the House get to Baroness Twycross and if, a little bit further down the line, when the Department has had more time to chew this over and she has had time to embed herself in her role, we revisited the subject to see what progress has been made. Motion lapsed (Standing Order No. 10(6)).”
“I thank colleagues from across the House for contributing to this important debate. We have heard stories of how libraries have transformed individuals’ lives. I was particularly moved by what my hon. Friend the Member for Bournemouth East (Tom Hayes), and many other colleagues across the House, said. We have learned a lot, but we have also had some lighter moments about the role that libraries play. I know that ministerial responsibilities have changed and that there is no mechanism to get Baroness Twycross to come here, but I would be grateful if the Minister made sure that she has heard what has been said in this debate. We have not had a commitment to a national strategy today.”
“The Minister is being very generous with his time. Central to what he is saying is transparency. Does he agree that enforceable transparency obligations would reduce legal uncertainty, deter infringement by increasing the legal risk to AI developers, and enable faster redress by allowing the courts to establish precedent where copyright is breached?”
“Friend the Member for South Derbyshire (Samantha Niblett) said. A simple mechanism to alert creators when their content is used is well within the abilities of these sophisticated companies. They just need the Government to prod them to do it. The Government are working hard. I know that they care passionately about the sector, and the economic and social value it brings. I look forward to hearing how they will now move at pace to address the concerns I have outlined, even if they cannot do so through the Bill.”
“However, I ask the Minister about the reports that emerged over the weekend, and whether the Government are moving away from an opt-out system for licensing, which creatives say will not work. Will that now be the Government’s position? Harnessing the benefits of AI—economic, social and innovative—is not diametrically opposed to ensuring that the rights of creatives are protected. We must ensure transparency in AI, as covered in new clause 4, so that tech companies, some of which are in cahoots with some of the more troubling aspects of the US Administration, do not end up with the power to curate an understanding of the world that reflects their own peculiar priorities. Big AI says transparency will effectively reveal its trade secrets, but that need not necessarily be the case, as my hon.”
“Allowing creators to be uncredited and undercut, with their work stripped of attribution and their livelihoods diluted in a wave of synthetic imitation, will disrupt the creative market enormously. We are not talking about that enough. It is tempting to lure the big US AI firms into the UK, giving the economy a sugar rush and attracting billions of pounds-worth of data centres, yet in the same breath we risk significantly draining economic value from our creative industries, which are one of the UK’s most storied pillars of our soft power. None of this is easy. The EU has grappled with creating a framework to deal with this issue for years without finding an equitable solution. I do not envy what the Government must navigate.”
“The more we delay, the worse the impact could be on our creative sector. I am also concerned that in the Government’s correct mission to deliver economic growth, they may inadvertently compromise the UK’s robust copyright laws. Instead, we should seek to introduce changes, so that creatives’ work cannot be scraped by big AI firms without providing transparency or remunerating the creatives behind it. Failure to protect copyright is not just bad for the sector as a whole, or the livelihoods of authors, photographers, musicians and others; it is bad for our self-expression, for how robust the sector can be, and for how it can bring communities together and invite us to ask the big questions about the human condition.”
“I know it is not the Government’s intention to deal with copyright and licensing as part of the Bill, but because of the anxiety in the sector the issues have become conflated. Scraping is already happening, without transparency, permission or remuneration, in the absence of a current adequate framework. The pace of change in the sector, and the risk of tariffs from across the pond, mean it is imperative that we deal with the threat posed to the creative industries as soon as possible. We are now facing 100% tariffs on UK films going to the USA, which increases that imperative. I welcome the Government’s commitment to engage with the creative industries and to implement a programme to protect them, following consultation. I would welcome an overview from the Minister in his summing up about progress in that regard.”
“However, there is a fundamental difference between using AI to manage stock in retail or distribution, or for making scientific breakthroughs that will improve people’s health, and the generative AI that is used to produce literature, images or music. The latter affects the creative industries, which have consistently seen faster and more substantial growth than the overall economy. The creative industries’ gross value added grew by over 50% in real terms compared with the overall UK economy, which grew by around a fifth between 2010 and 2022. That is why the Government are right to have identified the creative industries as a central plank of their industrial strategy, and it is right to deliver an economic assessment within 12 months, as outlined in Government new clauses 16 and 17. I welcome all that.”
“I rise to speak to new clauses 4, 16 and 17, but first let me say that this is a very ambitious and weighty piece of legislation. Most of us can agree on sections or huge chunks of it, but there is anxiety in the creative industries and in the media—particularly the local media, which have had a very torrid time over the last few years through Brexit and the pandemic. I thank UK Music, the News Media Association and Directors UK for engaging with me on this issue and the Minister for his generosity in affording time to Back Benchers to discuss it. AI offers massive opportunities to make public services and businesses more effective and efficient, and this will improve people’s lives.”
“The UK’s creators are asking not for special treatment but for fairness and for the unique value of their work to be recognised and protected in the digital age. Let us make sure that the law keeps pace not only with technology but with justice.”
“The Government previously said that the Bill was not the right vehicle for such action, so I would welcome some clarification: if not now, when? The EU has had an opt-out system for text and data mining since 2019, but no effective rights reservation solutions have been developed in six years. That system was introduced before the widespread adoption of AI, and the EU is now trying to retrofit solutions. The Government have outlined that AI companies and creative industries would need to collaborate to solve these problems, so I would appreciate some guidance from the Minister about the work that is happening in that space. I know that the Government are waiting for the results of their consultation, but many creators would appreciate clarity today about the work that is taking place.”
“I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Bury North (Mr Frith) for securing this important debate. A study by the International Confederation of Societies of Authors and Composers found that people working in the music industry could lose up to a quarter of their income by 2028 as a result of generative AI. Those losses would happen on two fronts: unremunerated and unauthorised use of their work, and competition from AI-generated output. In opposition, the now Government proposed to grow the creative economy and create good jobs right across the country. That was rightly welcomed, but there is significant concern about the proposed opt-out approach to text and data mining. I add my voice to the concerns about the removal of Baroness Kidron’s amendments from the Data (Use and Access) Bill.”
“I thank the Secretary of State for his statement and for the work he is doing as we face this challenge. I welcome the Government’s commitment to increase defence spending. That is good for not just our national security, but our economy. The sector employs many people in Derbyshire, including at Rolls-Royce. As we seek a trade deal that will create the economic conditions for our public services to thrive and for prices and bills to remain as low as possible, can I encourage the Secretary of State to remind the US of the importance of manufacturers such as Rolls-Royce and the defence sector, and the strategic and economic partnerships they offer us, so that we can work with them more constructively?”
“On Friday I was pleased to join colleagues from across the House to hear the Royal Marines band service in concert as part of the Mountbatten festival of music. May I invite the Government to reaffirm their commitment to the Royal Marines band service? It makes a huge contribution to defence diplomacy and combat operations.”
“The hon. Member has mentioned local newspapers. That money is a lifeline to local papers, and many people cherish their local paper as a way of finding out what is going on. I hear what she is saying, but let us not play too fast and loose with the money used to keep that lifeline going in many communities.”
“However, although opposing all new infrastructure without collaborating to improve it might feel like a victory in the short term, the costs of failing to step up will be borne by all of us, especially the next generation.”
“In that light, I want to see work done on hydrogen infrastructure. I also want to speak about people who feel anxious about change. This is nothing new; it is as old as time itself. People in my constituency have some concerns about National Grid’s proposed pylon upgrade between Chesterfield and Willington. I ask the Government to please ensure that National Grid listens to people in Morley, Stanley, Ockbrook and Borrowash and makes changes where it is right to do so, so that it can deliver projects with respect for communities. Communities’ concerns cannot be dismissed, and while we must upgrade our electricity infrastructure to help us transition to net zero, deliver cheaper bills and achieve energy independence, my role in this place is to speak up for people in Mid Derbyshire and ensure they are heard and respected.”
“Drivers of electric vehicles know all too well the frustration of being unable to undertake long journeys, given the lack of adequate chargers in many areas—particularly the east midlands, which has one of the lowest proportions of electric chargers per 100,000 people anywhere in the UK. That investment will be welcome news to companies such as Trentbarton, a bus operator serving my constituency. It wants to transition to a greener fleet of electric buses, but it has been hampered by insufficient public infrastructure, including the high cost of connecting to the grid and a lack of availability of adequate charging facilities locally. This legislation must be a springboard for embracing not only the infrastructure we need today, but the infrastructure we will need tomorrow.”
“It was that kind of get up and go that made the Derwent valley the home of the industrial revolution, using the power of rivers to drive the mills in places such as Belper and Milford—cheap renewable energy, almost two centuries before it was fashionable. If we want this country to continue to punch above its weight, we must resolve the delay and frustration I have referred to. Failure to do so will literally mean that we cannot keep the lights on. Bearing that in mind, in the short time that I have, I will focus my contribution on the bits of the Bill that relate to energy. Measures in the Bill will bring a much-welcomed boost to EV charging infrastructure.”
“Britain finds itself in a chokehold, with bottlenecks leaving it unable to update its infrastructure to a modern standard. Part of the story behind that is the last Government’s inertia and infighting, which came at the expense of the national interest. [ Interruption. ] I hear that I have some musical accompaniment. The time that it takes to secure planning permission for major infrastructure has almost doubled over the past decade. That has real-world consequences, including higher bills, longer commutes, increased water shortages and flooding—I could go on. It is essential that we recapture the Victorian and post-war sense of purpose that symbolised progress and possibility, and ultimately delivered improvements to people’s everyday lives.”
“I recently visited Asda in Spondon in my constituency, where there is a supported internship under way called Project SEARCH. It is delivered with the YMCA and the Direct Education Business Partnership. It is a fantastic scheme, and when I met those young people, it was clear that the initiative had transformed their lives. In some cases, they had struggled to get employment elsewhere. May I encourage my hon. Friend to welcome that initiative?”
“We on the Government Benches are disappointed to have had to make this decision, but it is a symptom of the circumstances in which we find ourselves. I just remind the shadow Minister of something. I understand that he stood in the 2017 general election. Some of the policies in the Conservative manifesto at that time were to means-test the winter fuel allowance and to reduce the triple lock to a double lock.”
“Williams leading the sport and inspiring the next generation, rugby’s leaders must ensure that the spoils of the elite game are shared with community clubs. Failure to do so would mean the sport faces an existential threat, and we would all be the poorer for it.”
“I am pleased that the new Government committed in their manifesto to get more children active by protecting time for physical education in schools and supporting the role of grassroots clubs in expanding access to sport. People’s enjoyment of rugby will be further enhanced by the Government’s commitment to putting fans back at the heart of sporting events by introducing new consumer protections on ticket resales. As the Government do their bit to bring communities together and support people’s health and wellbeing through sport as part of their plan for change, I encourage all rugby stakeholders to do whatever they can to get behind the grassroots game and fund it appropriately. If we want to see tomorrow’s Will Carling or J. P. R.”
“Morrisons kindly donated £5,500 to the club to part fund the excavation and installation of approximately 250 metres of filter drains along the length of the pitches to mitigate flooding, which is a big local issue. Morrisons said: “We recognise the importance of the rugby club to the local community, and we understand the impact the flooding has caused. We hope that these works will have a positive effect and mitigate future flooding.” I thank Morrisons for its support. Belper rugby club is keen to see more professional input at community level. It has talked to my office about a New Zealand model, where professionals go into schools in the community to support the development of the grassroots game. I strongly support that and urge the Minister to throw her weight behind the proposal in her engagement with rugby’s leaders.”
“However, the concern of many amateur clubs across the country is that money that is generated at elite levels is not filtering down to community clubs, leaving those community clubs struggling to invest in future talent and to maintain ageing clubhouses or well-used pitches. Many of us will have an active rugby club in our communities, backed up by dedicated volunteers, and it has been a joy to hear about some of them this morning. In my constituency, Belper rugby club is well loved by local people and has 250 playing members aged five to 55. I am particularly pleased that local businesses have thrown their support behind the club so that it can continue to bring people together through the power of sport.”
“The tournament is part of our national story—a celebration of the United Kingdom through passionate but good-natured competition between each of its constituent parts—but watching the likes of Maro Itoje, Dafydd Jenkins, Sione Tuipulotu, or Caelan Doris will not be possible if the talent pipeline from the school playing field or the community club to Twickenham, Murrayfield, the Principality or Aviva stadiums is not secured. That talent pipeline was fostered through the years when rugby union was an amateur game—a far cry from other sports that, as the hon. Member for Hinckley and Bosworth (Dr Luke Evans) hinted, are run as franchises or closed shops for shareholders, rather than for fans and those playing for the sheer love of the game.”
“England Rugby estimates its value to be around £20.3 billion during 2023-24, and that includes £770 million to help people to improve their physical and mental health, and for community activities, crime reduction and economic growth more generally. It is an important part of our economy as well as our communities. Saturday afternoons during the Five and latterly Six Nations were protected time in my household growing up, often with one match being shown on the television while another fixture was simultaneously listened to on the radio.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Desmond. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Camborne and Redruth (Perran Moon) for securing this important debate. It has been a pleasure to hear the passion across the room for this wonderful sport. Few activities have the power to bring people and communities together in the way that rugby can. It instils passion, pride, respect, teamwork and determination, bringing people together from all different walks of life. It teaches young people that, when they persevere, they can achieve so much more as a team than they can alone. It is also a huge contributor to the UK economy.”
“That is aside from all the work that the Church does to support people in their faith and give them hope, so we need it to succeed. It is the custodian of so many of the world’s most important buildings. It makes a fantastic and huge contribution to our cultural life, but it absolutely must get this issue right. If it fails to do so, it will face an existential threat, and I cannot countenance that as a proud Anglican. I want to see the Church succeed, but it must do right by victims. It must embed the change that it needs to embed and change its culture so that it is not characterised in these terms going forward, so that we do not have to discuss this issue any further and so that the Church can get on with what it is here to do.”
“I am pleased that the Church is beginning to come to terms with what it needs to do to put this right, so that people trust it more than they have been able to in recent years, and that it is keen to learn lessons. However, it is deeply disappointing that the Church has not chosen to have an independent process to give people more trust, removing the almost political priorities of its leaders and their desire to save their reputation—leaders right from the top, down to parish level—in favour of something that can be more objective about individuals’ cases, as well as about wider policy. As I began by saying, we are desperate for the Church to succeed. It brings so much to all of our communities—there are food banks that have been set up because of what the Church does, and social activities that bring people together.”