Louise Sandher-Jones
MP for North East Derbyshire · Labour · United Kingdom
“Defence continually assesses threats and risks in all areas, including aerial drones. The defence investment plan contains measures to accelerate transformation and equip forces for modern warfare, including £790 million for integrated air and missile defence.”
“My hon. Friend is quite right to highlight the High North, and the defence investment plan positions our armed forces to focus on its protection, alongside our allies in NATO and the JEF.”
“The UK is committed to security in the High North. As well as the Royal Marines’ cold weather training in Norway, ranger exercises in Sweden and Finland, and air policing operations, the UK plays a key role in NATO’s Arctic Sentry initiative and deployed our carrier strike group to the High North this year.”
“There has been an abhorrent loss of life; children must never be the victims of war. We have already suspended licences for Israel where the items might be used in military operations in Gaza. Licences are kept under continuous review.”
“The hon. Member is right to highlight the fantastic work being done at Predannack, and I agree wholeheartedly with him. The defence investment plan places significant emphasis on uncrewed capability and autonomy, and the hon.”
“I hope that my hon. Friend heard my previous answer, in which I expressed my deep sadness over the innocent victims of war. To confirm, we have already suspended licences for Israel where the items might be used in military operations in Gaza, noting the F-35 components going to the global programme.”
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Every one of 485 lines we hold for Louise Sandher-Jones, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 5 of 10.
“Member for Yeovil (Adam Dance) spoke about the importance of support for Leonardo and for helicopters, and I will make sure that his comments are passed to the Minister for Defence Readiness and Industry. The Secretary of State met representatives from Leonardo last week, and I know that the Minister will continue the dialogue with them and the hon. Member. I will also ensure that the comments of the hon. Member for West Dorset (Edward Morello) are passed to the Minister. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for York Outer (Mr Charters) for his excellent work on this issue, and for working with other hon. Members across parties, including my hon.”
“I am sure that if we asked families in Ukraine whether greater spending on defence and deterrence over the last decade would have had a positive or negative impact on their society, environment and governance, we would get only one answer. I will speak quickly to some of the points raised in this debate. The hon. Member for Windsor rightly spoke about the importance of more money for SMEs in the defence industry. The Government have a target of spending £7.5 billion with SMEs by 2027-28, which is a 50% increase. As somebody who used to work for an SME that had some interest in defence customers, I know how difficult a challenge it can be in that space, without any unfair negative attention being paid to the industry we were in. The hon.”
“It is a pleasure to see you in the Chair, Ms McVey. I will take a minute to put on record my deep sadness about the death of Captain Philip Gilbert Muldowney on Sunday. My thoughts, and the thoughts of everyone here, are with his loved ones. I am grateful to the hon. Member for Windsor (Jack Rankin) for initiating this important debate, and for highlighting the unduly negative light in which defence can sadly sometimes be viewed in investment and academic circles. All hon. Members here, including me, care deeply about our society, environment and good governance, but I welcome this opportunity to set out why defence, rather than being incompatible with those values, underpins all three.”
“Engaging and supporting the women who have served in our armed forces is an important part of our new veterans strategy and a priority that is deeply personal to me as a veteran myself. As well as our commitments across the strategy, we will specifically be taking forward plans to establish a new women veterans forum and an oral history project to improve public understanding and recognition of the experiences and contributions of women veterans in keeping the nation safe.”
“We are, of course, committed to supporting families across defence, and we recognise the extraordinary service that RFA sailors give to this country. As I have previously written to my hon. Friend, the maternity and parental support package provided by the RFA includes enhanced leave entitlements and tailored assistance through mechanisms such as occupational health. While consecutive shore postings have never been a Defence policy, the RFA does support employees to use flexibilities within that offer, and I would be happy to meet her to discuss this further.”
“My hon. Friend raises an important point. As he will be aware, we are rolling out the Valour programme, which includes a network of regional centres. There will also be an online presence to help ensure that we can expand the reach where possible. I would be delighted to come and visit.”
“I thank the hon. Member for raising an incredibly important point. As she will know, I am personally dedicated to improving the experiences of women in our armed forces. She rightly highlights the Atherton report. We are taking forward several things to deliver that programme, such as improving how we take care of victims and introducing more accountability. I also highlight our support for the cross-governmental work on violence against women and girls.”
“I thank the right hon. Member for raising this case. If he would provide me with the details afterwards, I will of course take a closer look.”
“A new transformational veterans strategy, the first in seven years, recognises veterans as a national asset. It commits £50 million of Valour funding to make it easier for veterans to access the care and support they deserve, and £12 million for the reducing veterans homelessness programmes. Ops Fortitude, Courage, Restore, Ascend and Nova will continue their fantastic work as well. We will continue to deliver on what matters most for veterans.”
“I thank the hon. Member for raising the important point that those who were treated disgracefully by the former policy under the military may be struggling with being able to get back in touch. I can assure her that the armed forces family would welcome her constituent back with open arms. If the hon. Member is happy to pass details on to me, we can provide several ways of doing that—for example, via the regimental association, which I am sure will be only too happy to meet her constituent.”
“I thank my hon. Friend for raising that incredibly important point. As he says, one veteran on the streets is one too many. The new veterans strategy reiterated our commitment, and we were pleased to announce an additional £12 million for vital homelessness services, such as the reducing veteran homelessness programme. I remind Members that Op Fortitude is the pathway for veterans to access housing support when they need it.”
“I thank my hon. Friend for highlighting the important work of Tom Harrison House. I have heard many times of the unique nature of the support that it provides. We must support veterans in using that particular service, and see what we can do to further such support. I would be more than happy to visit.”
“As the right hon. Member well knows, we have been clear about which protections will be in the Bill. I remind him that it was legislation introduced when he was in government that gave blanket immunity to terrorists, and he very proudly supported it.”
“We will implement those new protections, and we have been in close dialogue with many different representatives. To turn the question back on to the shadow Minister, his legislation utterly failed and gave blanket immunity to terrorists. I will not hear lectures from the Conservatives, who could not provide a solution in 14 years.”
“As my hon. Friend rightly notes, the veterans strategy is a huge step forward in how we will support our veterans. The £50 million Valour commitment will rapidly improve how we meet our veterans’ needs, and I will of course visit her constituency, although probably not on the same day as I visit Liverpool.”
“I thank my hon. Friend for his tireless campaigning on behalf of our armed forces. I am very proud to be part of a ministerial team that is ensuring that more than 35,000 junior personnel who do not currently qualify for travel support will get their trip home over the Christmas period paid for. That is part of the Government’s delivering on our commitment to our armed forces and renewing the contract with those who serve.”
“I am disgusted by the mistreatment of our brave LGBT veterans who served between 1967 and 2000, and I am pleased that the Government have now delivered 48 of the 49 recommendations made in Lord Etherton’s independent review. One of those was the unveiling of the LGBT+ armed forces community memorial, which I was deeply honoured to be able to attend alongside LGBT veterans and service personnel. The one outstanding recommendation recognises the unique experiences of female veterans, and work is ongoing on a number of initiatives towards that, including the launch of a new women veterans forum.”
“As my hon. Friend rightly notes, the historical mistreatment of LGBT veterans is a moral stain on our nation. We are taking a number of measures to redress that, and I would be more than happy to meet her to discuss the matter further.”
“The hon. Member raises an important point. The cadets are a fantastic opportunity for our young people, who learn to build valuable skills, values and experience. Underpinning that is the work of our amazing adult volunteers. We are working very hard to see what we can do to improve how we support adult volunteers and, of course, to recruit more, so that we can continue to grow our cadets by 30% by 2030.”
“I acknowledge that he, and indeed the House, might want me to go further today and make a commitment to implement an injury medal for armed forces personnel, but I hope that he will understand that that is not possible at this time, as any consideration of this matter must be progressed through the correct channels. However, I trust that he is reassured that the Government are fully committed to ensuring that those who serve this country with bravery and dedication will be supported in the practical sense, but will also have their selflessness and sacrifice properly recognised through the award of medals. Question put and agreed to.”
“I recognise that there are those who wish to see a more specific acknowledgement of service personnel injured in the course of their military careers, and in particular, those wounded on military operations. With an awareness of the proposals, my officials are considering this, in terms of whether a defined injury medal would be the best method of recognition in such circumstances, whether such an award would be viable, and the hows and wherefores. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for St Helens North for raising this important topic.”
“It is a basic principle that those who wear a medal must have earned it. Therefore, eligibility is always checked carefully against the person’s service record. Similarly, when a new medal is proposed, there must be a clear and robust rationale that doing so evidences the delivery of and furthers the UK’s aims. Let me turn specifically to service personnel wounded in combat. Currently, those injured and evacuated from an operational deployment that attracts a campaign, operational or general service medal are automatically awarded the relevant medal, regardless of whether they have met the standard eligibility criteria. Effectively, the automatic award is made in recognition of the fact that the individual has sacrificed their wellbeing while on the operation.”
“Medals are a form of recognition from the Government on behalf of the monarch, instituted by royal warrant, and sitting firmly under royal prerogative powers. That is important, because it places the medals system and other honours and awards above the political fray. As such, it is a process underpinned by a Cabinet Office–led system of committees that make evidence-based judgments on the merits of individual endeavour to ensure that our system is fair. For that reason, I believe that the British model for medallic recognition is highly respected across the globe. Medals for members of our armed forces mark an individual’s contribution to a military operation that has protected this country or enhanced global security. They may also recognise acts of exceptional courage.”
“If we are to expect our armed forces to display such qualities in protecting our country and the values that we hold dear, it is only right that we, as a Government, ensure that they are properly supported and recognised for doing so. That means expressing our gratitude on behalf of the British people through practical support—here I want to highlight our Valour initiative to improve the co-ordination of support for our military veterans; Fortitude, which houses homeless veterans and those at risk of homelessness; and the work to expand the armed forces covenant, which, as the Prime Minister announced in June, will be extended across central Government—and, of course, through the rightful award of medallic recognition.”
“Friend the Member for St Helens North will see the practical reasons for me responding, given the focus on the armed forces. If it is the Government’s first duty to protect the population, they can do so only by asking the men and women of our armed forces to do extraordinary things. As I saw during my own deployment to Afghanistan, regular and reservist members of our armed forces served with courage, commitment and resilience, separated from their loved ones, often in difficult and dangerous situations. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for St Helens North for highlighting how many people who are veterans of that conflict still have to deal with the impact on their lives every day.”
“Members who have spoken today to highlight their support for veterans. The hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) rightly highlighted the role of those who served in Northern Ireland; I have the greatest respect for those who served in that conflict. My hon. Friend the Member for Rochdale (Paul Waugh) movingly spoke of how much work Andy Reid has been doing, particularly on behalf of Springhill hospice, which shows the impact that he has had on his wider community. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Bootle (Peter Dowd) for his fantastic work as well. Although I recognise that the debate was originally aimed towards my Cabinet Office colleagues, as it is they who administer the UK honours and awards system, I hope my hon.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Mr Vickers. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for St Helens North (David Baines) for securing this debate and highlighting the continued importance of properly recognising those who have served in our armed forces. I know how much work he has been doing, both in his role as an MP and with St Helens borough council—including in his time as leader—to lead the way on implementing the armed forces covenant and showing support for the veteran community, for which I thank him, both as a Minister and as a veteran myself. I also thank Andy Reid MBE and acknowledge his amazing work. Again, he has done so much campaigning on this and other causes to support veterans. He is a fantastic campaigner and a huge inspiration. I thank other hon.”
“I understand that only 0.1% of the documents are subject to the 100-year review. Most of those relate not to maintenance or repair logs, but to compensation or personal details, which of course was the reasoning for the 100-year closure in the first place.”
“It is vital that the public have confidence that those of us in positions of responsibility will honour our commitment to the duty of candour. That is the message at the heart of the Public Authority (Accountability) Bill, which I am pleased to say has cross-party support for the reasons that we have heard several Members address today. I want to address some of the points about the files that are held in the National Archives. There are claims that the files contain vital information about the cause of the crash, and that the information has been intentionally withheld. As we have stated publicly, the documents contained in the files have been reviewed by officials, who have confirmed that they contain no information that would offer new insights into the crash.”
“Their legacy is very much still alive and the impact of their service very much still remembered. Colleagues will be well aware that the courts are considering the Chinook Justice Campaign’s request for a judicial review of the ministerial decision not to grant a new public inquiry into the accident. The judicial review process is a vital mechanism to hold public bodies to account and the courts will make their decision fairly and impartially. I will not provide a summary of our response to the courts or justify our position, but I will touch on a few points, including those raised in the debate. I want to focus on the lessons that have been learned and applied as a lasting legacy of the 29 people who we lost that day and I know are greatly missed.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Dowd. I thank the hon. Member for North Down (Alex Easton) for securing this important debate and speaking with such passion on behalf of the bereaved families who were impacted by this tragic accident 31 years ago. As he will know, I am a veteran myself. I know that the pain of losing loved ones does not diminish with the passage of time, and nor should it. In this case, there is the added hurt for families of not knowing, after more than three decades, precisely why the Chinook crashed or why their loved ones died. As he may know, I served in the Intelligence Corps. The loss of the Intelligence Corps personnel on board was felt when I joined in 2014 and, indeed, I discussed it with former colleagues recently.”
“I do not have the exact details to hand right now, but it is quite routinely the case that, where documents of this nature contain personal information, they are closed for 100 years to allow for the people whose details they contain to have passed away, at which point the privacy considerations obviously change.”
“As a result of those, and the inquiries into the tragic fatal crash of RAF Nimrod XV230 in 2010, the Department has made a number of very important changes to its air safety and incident—”
“I will get the hon. Member the information. I understand that they are sealed until 2094. Carrying on the point I was making, there is some material, from various sources, that puts forward theories relating to the crash, but those theories have been publicly aired in previous investigations, and I reiterate that the reason for those documents being closed is that they contain personal information. As has been mentioned, that is up for review in 2029. Although these documents are FOI-able, personal details would none the less remain redacted. The files have been transferred to the National Archives, which is standard practice, and the personal data has been marked as closed. There have been six investigations and inquiries into the crash of Chinook ZD576.”
“As recommended by the board of inquiry report, accident data recorders and cockpit voice recorders are now installed across the vast majority of Ministry of Defence air fleets, and formalised instrument meteorological conditions climb procedures were introduced throughout the RAF to support aircrew to safely negotiate poor weather conditions. Today the RAF has a robust and effective safety management system, and a commitment to total safety is embedded in the culture of the organisation.”
“Yes, that is the information I have been given. The Department has made a number of important changes to its air safety and incident review processes since 1994. As we heard from the right hon. Member for New Forest East (Sir Julian Lewis), the change to the board of inquiry process so that negligence is not attributed to dead airmen is a hugely important step, which resulted partly from the investigations of this incident. Chief among the changes is the establishment of the Military Aviation Authority, an independent and autonomous body that ensures that expert, no-blame investigations of safety-related incidents and near misses across all defence domains are independent, impartial and timely.”
“It is a very interesting point. I understand the reference, and I would be interested to know about further standard operating procedures. I am sure that, as the right hon. Member will understand, it is quite a rare occurrence to have that many senior people on the same airframe in the course of business, but I cannot say right now that that is definitely the case, or what the bounds are in terms of ranks and so on. I am sure the right hon. Member will appreciate that.”
“He may be aware of my previous military service, and he will know that I absolutely understand the value of being able to carry out classified work, but the issue of accountability is valid whether we are talking about classified or unclassified work. I will certainly take his point away with me. The hon. Member for Exmouth and Exeter East (David Reed) spoke very well, particularly about his own personal experiences. We heard a Chinook go overhead—”
“Member for Argyll, Bute and South Lochaber (Brendan O’Hara) raised the issues that the families have faced over the past 31 years in getting to the truth of what happened to their loved ones and why, and in achieving an understanding of the factors in the flight. I thank him for speaking so passionately on their behalf. The hon. Member for Honiton and Sidmouth (Richard Foord) spoke very well on behalf of his constituents. He made an important point about the Public Authority (Accountability) Bill. As he will know, some Government business is quite rightly classified, but there is still, of course, a need for accountability.”
“Member for Upper Bann (Carla Lockhart) spoke passionately on behalf of her constituents, and rightly called for justice and transparency. She called on us to read those 29 names, as I will do after this debate. She made the valid point that we must remember each and every person we lost in the crash. I thank her for her impassioned call. The hon. Member for Wells and Mendip Hills (Tessa Munt) asked some very important questions, and I will write to her on the specifics. I hope I have already addressed at least some of her questions about the closed documents. Her point about the families not being told about the documents being sealed is a valid one. In this and similar situations, it is incumbent on us, the Ministry of Defence, to communicate everything we can to the affected families. I thank her for raising the point. The hon.”
“Although the review by Lord Philip was not statutory and therefore did not have the power to compel, I note that nobody who was called to give testimony absented themselves. Although they were not compelled, nobody refused to come. The right hon. Member for Belfast East (Gavin Robinson) made an excellent point about the need for the Government to be open. I wholeheartedly agree on that, and on the need for accountability. I have already addressed the point made by the right hon. Member for New Forest East. The hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) spoke passionately, as he always does, on behalf of those who have suffered. I reiterate the importance of getting to the truth of what happened. That is the central driving point and why we are all here for this debate. The hon.”
“I thank the hon. Lady for her intervention and note her request. The hon. Member for North Down spoke movingly in his compelling speech about our moral duty to uncover the truth. I am committed, as I know my colleagues are, to the contract with those who serve our nation—we are serving them. Part of that contract is that when we ask them to do dangerous things, or put them into harm’s way, we have a moral duty to have done what we can to mitigate the risks they will face. To do that, we must do all the preparatory work necessary and learn the lessons when there is the opportunity to do so. Let me briefly address a point—a single point, and not necessarily the entire argument—raised by the hon. Member for North Down and others.”
“The noble Lord Coaker has written to them to invite representatives to meet him, the Minister for the Armed Forces and me, with the meeting scheduled for 16 December. I understand that the families and loved ones of the 29 people killed that day continue to search for answers to explain what went wrong. The review that was undertaken by Lord Philip concluded that the cause of the accident is likely never to be known, and I am truly sorry for that. Once again, I thank the hon. Member for North Down for securing the debate.”
“Every time I climbed into an aircraft, predominantly RAF Pumas, that had to fly in certain tactical ways—a bit more acrobatically than usual—I, and every single person on that flight, put so much trust in those who maintained, certified and produced the airframe. It is the work of many people to ensure that someone, whether the pilot or a passenger on the flight, can trust that it will get them from A to B as it should. That trust also extends to knowing that if anything happens to a flight, there will be truth and accountability in getting to the bottom of what went wrong, whatever the cause may be, without fear or favour. I very much acknowledge that principle today. I also acknowledge the level of anger felt by those represented by the Chinook Justice Campaign.”
“Exactly. It is a sound that the hon. Gentleman and I obviously know very well. Again, this goes back to my service in the Intelligence Corps. Before I deployed to Afghanistan, someone who was interested in my safety, and who was in the corps, told me to be careful, because it is when travelling that, unfortunately, we in the Intelligence Corps tend to lose our personnel. I am well aware that this is not the only crash in which we have lost members of the corps. We are well aware of that every time we get into a military aircraft, particularly if it will be flying in hostile conditions.”
“I find it quite difficult to speak about that conflict and its wider significance, and I know that it is important that we do. Today, we have come together to say thank you to those who have served and to remember those who made the ultimate sacrifice. I thank all Members who are here today. They have upheld this House’s proud tradition of honouring the service and sacrifice of our armed forces on the anniversary of Armistice Day. We will always remember them.”
“Friend the Member for South East Cornwall (Anna Gelderd) spoke well of her constituency’s strong links to the armed forces and the hon. and learned Member for North Antrim (Jim Allister) gave a powerful account of Robert Quigg, exemplifying the huge importance of selfless service. The hon. Member for East Wiltshire (Danny Kruger) spoke of his constituency’s huge military presence and the importance of defending veterans, and I note that we are specifically stopping cold calling of veterans. The hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) spoke well about making sure that the next generation is the best generation. I can wholeheartedly agree with that. Lastly, I thank the shadow Minister for his heartfelt speech about the lasting impact of world war one. He is also right as a fellow veteran of Afghanistan.”
“The hon. Member for Ynys Môn (Llinos Medi) spoke well about the importance of Welsh veterans and was a powerful advocate for the importance of supporting those veterans. I take her points on board. My hon. Friend the Member for Portsmouth North (Amanda Martin) spoke movingly about her family history. I know that she is proud of her serving son and a proud advocate for Portsmouth and the Royal Navy. The hon. Member for Tewkesbury (Cameron Thomas) spoke movingly about what remembrance is about. As a veteran who has also washed up here, I appreciated his words. They were authentic and heartfelt. The hon. Member for Taunton and Wellington (Gideon Amos) again spoke movingly and I wish William Spiller a happy 100th birthday for December—by text. My hon.”
“That proud history of service was emulated by my hon. Friend the Member for Colchester (Pam Cox), with a mere 2,000 years to recognise. The hon. and gallant Member for Epsom and Ewell (Helen Maguire) spoke powerfully about a number of issues. I will, of course, meet her to discuss them; I am sure she appreciates that I cannot go into them now. My hon. Friend the Member for Stafford (Leigh Ingham) spoke movingly about her family and Scotty’s Little Soldiers, which is a fantastic charity. The hon. Member for Stratford-on-Avon (Manuela Perteghella) spoke well about the RAF photographic reconnaissance unit, whose courage is indeed immense. I also thank my hon. Friend the Member for Bury St Edmunds and Stowmarket (Peter Prinsley) for the powerful accounts of the history of his family and for recognising the service of Jewish service personnel.”
“It was fantastic to hear about the heroic efforts of RAF Biggin Hill from the hon. Member for Bromley and Biggin Hill (Peter Fortune), and my hon. Friend the Member for Dunstable and Leighton Buzzard (Alex Mayer) spoke well about Q Central, which I am particularly interested in given my service history. It was great to hear about the “Pedal to Ypres” fundraiser from the hon. Member for Melksham and Devizes (Brian Mathew). That is no small distance. I was also particularly proud to hear from my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Leyton and Wanstead (Mr Bailey), a man of remarkable service. It was fantastic to hear him talk so movingly about the importance of black servicemen and women. The hon. Member for Upper Bann (Carla Lockhart) is a proud voice, speaking about the proud history of service in her constituency.”