Uma Kumaran
MP for Stratford and Bow · Labour · United Kingdom
“Every single year, an estimated 30,000 deaths are attributable to long-term exposure to dirty air, and, at one point, in Newham—one of the boroughs I represent—1.7 in every 100 deaths were caused by air pollution. In 2013, one of those 30,000 was a nine-year-old girl. We have already heard her name today: Ella Adoo-Kissi-Debrah.”
“I could not agree more with my right hon. Friend. For some Members on the right, particularly those representing outer London suburbs, that issue has become the newest punching bag. This should not be about party politics; it should be about cleaning up our polluted air.”
“The toxic air cut her beautiful life short, and robbed a family of their sister and a mother of her daughter. Their lives have never been the same since. That is the price that our younger citizens paid for our inaction.”
“I thank the Prime Minister for his moving statement and the formal apology today. We have heard the heartfelt personal experiences of Members across the House and the experiences of their constituents, and it has been deeply moving.”
“That is the simple premise behind Ella’s law, which I am very proud to support as a signatory. That legislation, the Clean Air (Human Rights) Bill, makes one clear claim: every person has the right to breathe clean air. I welcome the fact that the Government have identified clean air as a priority for the 10-year health plan.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Efford. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Brent West (Barry Gardiner) for leading this debate and, as ever, for his gentle but decisive prose. Members will be pleased, I am sure, to hear that my remarks will be a bit shorter.”
The complete record
Every one of 299 lines we hold for Uma Kumaran, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 5 of 6.
“Statistically, less than 1% of women who have been subject to pregnancy or maternity discrimination pursue a claim in an employment tribunal. While making the case for business, it is important to realise that we are talking about a very small percentage of people. As we heard from my hon. Friend the Member for Penistone and Stocksbridge, these things can make a huge difference to people’s lives, and we are talking about very specific amendments that will make a real difference to the lives of working people.”
“Today, we are acting on that promise. However, too many leaseholders in my constituency have had to pay the price of removing unsafe cladding that they had no role in putting up. I welcome the reforms announced today to give tenants, including social housing tenants, a seat at the table, but I urge the Minister to make sure that remediation costs do not fall on leaseholders. We must take account of all the views and give everyone a seat at the table. We must truly mean it when we say, “Never again.” We must learn the lessons of Grenfell so that the tragedy is never repeated. I join colleagues in urging the Government to act in full on the findings of the phase 2 report, and to address the inequalities in housing—inequalities that we see due to class, race and disability.”
“Sadly, too many of my constituents —and too many people across the country—fear being the victim of yet another Grenfell-style tragedy. Will the Minister meet me to discuss the cases in my constituency, as we have the most high-rise, cladded blocks in the country? I acknowledge that he has inherited a shameful situation from the previous Government, and it is scandalous that remediation has been so slow. I welcome the work that this Labour Government are undertaking to put it right, particularly today’s announcement committing to the remediation of all high-rise buildings with unsafe cladding by 2029 through a Government-funded scheme. I am also pleased that the Deputy Prime Minister has said today that we want to go much further. At the election, we promised to speed up the removal of unsafe cladding.”
“In my constituency, residents in East Village—the site of the former Olympic athletes’ village—have been left in a protracted legal battle between stakeholders over who is liable for remediation costs, which has delayed essential works. Residents of Thomas Fyre Drive are still waiting for work to start, despite their service charges going up, and some are stuck in the leasehold trap because they cannot sell their property. Many feel that saving face and saving costs have been prioritised over their safety. The distress and frustration are palpable, and the situation is becoming untenable for many. I know that the Government share my view that every person deserves to feel safe and secure, and be safe and secure, in their home.”
“It is frustration at the pace of remediation works, which are already long overdue and, for many, still feel years away. It is shameful that, seven years after Grenfell, remediation has been completed on less than 50% of mid-rise and high-rise buildings with unsafe cladding. We have recently seen a terrifying fire in Dagenham, which is why residents across the country, including in Stratford and Bow, live in fear of what might happen to them in the event of a fire. But this is not the end of the matter. Many leaseholders, including shared owners, feel trapped in properties that they are unable to sell, facing significant financial uncertainty and distress.”
“There are thousands of residents in my constituency who, through no fault of their own, find themselves caught up in the cladding scandal. I have been inundated with messages from constituents who feel unsafe in their own homes. I have sat with them as they told me deeply personal stories, through tears and anger—of being unable to move to be with their mother who is dying of cancer; of the mental health impacts; of being unable to start a family; and of having their life savings trapped in un-mortgageable properties. The scale of anger, distrust and betrayal felt by my constituents, who are caught in this situation through no fault of their own, sits heavily with me. I share their frustration, which I can feel across the House today.”
“I will never forget seeing those images as I travelled past not even 48 hours afterwards: the embers, the smoke, the smell—that memory will stay with me forever. The Grenfell community has demonstrated enormous strength and courage in giving evidence to the inquiry and campaigning tirelessly for justice—justice for the victims and families of Grenfell Tower, and justice to ensure that such a tragedy never befalls another community. My Stratford and Bow constituency sits between the two boroughs with the highest number of high-rise, cladded blocks in the country. Tower Hamlets has more than 400 buildings with unsafe cladding, and Newham has more than 200. I welcome the Deputy Prime Minister’s announcement that Tower Hamlets was the first to obtain a remediation order, but there is still so much more to be done.”
“I will start by paying tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Kensington and Bayswater (Joe Powell). He is the voice of his community, and he has given a moving tribute today. As we have heard, it is now more than seven years since 72 people lost their lives in the devastating fire in Grenfell Tower. Our thoughts are with the bereaved families, the survivors, the residents and the local community. That this tragic fire happened in modern Britain is a scandal and it should fill us all with deep anger and fear. Every single person was let down by the failure of almost every institution that existed to serve them, and by decades of failure by the state. My hon. Friend the Member for Vauxhall and Camberwell Green (Florence Eshalomi) spoke powerfully of the moment she first saw the tragedy.”
“It is so much better to be able to say, as a day one right, “This is what I want to give to this new employment that I have just received, but this is the world I exist in and these are the other responsibilities I have—how can we best make that work?” We know that our members will see a huge benefit from that, especially if they move to a new workplace.”
“However, I would say that there has been some really important progress through the Bill and, we hope, through the review of parental leave to support working families. Liron Velleman: I do not want to repeat what Joanne has said, but I have a small point to make. The day one right to request flexible working is so important. So many people start a new job and then work out, “Okay, how am I going to balance this with my caring responsibilities?” If they cannot make that request for the first six months and they really struggle to make sure their kids are picked up from school or to deal with their elderly parents, they might find a not great way of dealing with it. It is then quite difficult to turn around to their employer and make the request six months down the line.”
“On flexible working, the shift to employers having to justify their refusal is welcome, but there are still eight business grounds on which employers can refuse a request. It is still very difficult for employees to ask for flexible working; they are often concerned about what the repercussions of making a request might be. We recently surveyed our members with caring responsibilities and found that only just over half were even aware of the right to request flexible working. Of those who were aware, only half had used it. We would like a more robust framework for making requests for flexible working. For example, we could abolish the restriction on the number of applications that can be made in a 12-month period; extend the right to all workers, not just employees; and ensure that there is a right to appeal if a request is refused.”
“We welcome the shift in the burden to employers to justify why they have refused a request for flexible working, and the new right to bereavement leave, which widens the current provision entitling bereaved parents to statutory parental bereavement leave. We think that there are some areas in which those rights could be strengthened. We welcome the Government’s commitment to review parental leave more widely outside the Bill; we will be engaging with that review. We think we need to look at the length of paid maternity and paternity leave, the provision of paid carer’s leave and the wider support that is needed to make sure that those rights work effectively for working families.”
“Q Thank you both for your evidence today. How important is managing work and caring responsibilities to your members? How will the Government’s “Make Work Pay” agenda and the Bill help to address those issues? Joanne Cairns: Many of our members are juggling paid jobs with caring responsibilities, whether that is childcare or looking after disabled partners and relatives. The majority of our members are women; the burden of care continues to fall disproportionately on women, so we really welcome a number of the measures in the Bill that will help workers with caring responsibilities, including the right to parental leave and paternity leave being from day one of employment.”
“That can be really challenging, and has been particularly for ethnic minority workers in the health and social care sector among others. Margaret Beels: It was quite striking in the work I did on adult social care that about a third of domiciliary workers in England are on zero-hours contracts. That does seem a very high number.”
“I know that the Bill will not necessarily address the totality of those problems, because there are obviously issues around the finance for improving those things, but previous speakers talked about what we as a nation value. We need to value our adult social care workers and the work they do, and to give them more support. John Kirkpatrick : Since Margaret has introduced social care as a particular sector, I might add that the work we have done in the past on the workforce in that sector again showed an issue that I referred to earlier, which is the challenge of people being able to understand their rights, particularly where those rights are complicated and are not necessarily written in the most accessible language, even in the best guidance.”
“If those opportunities were to diminish, that would be of some concern, but I think that that does no more than repeat the point I made earlier that we need, both in advance and subsequently, to monitor very carefully the impact of these measures on levels of employment and quality of employment, which is what I think they are aimed at. Margaret Beels: In terms of the sectors that we regard as being at the highest risk of labour exploitation, which is what I worry about, such as agriculture, the car-washing industry, construction or adult social care—we have not talked much about adult social care, but I have been doing quite a lot of work in relation to workers’ experiences in adult social care—I welcome the measures in the Bill that will start to address some of those issues.”
“Q Thank you, John and Margaret for the important work that you both do in your respective roles. How do you believe that the measures in the Bill could improve opportunity for workers of all backgrounds? I am thinking specifically on class, race and disability. John Kirkpatrick : I think I said earlier that to the extent that some of those protected characteristic groups have worse experiences in the labour market than others, protecting them is absolutely desirable. The only risk is to the flexibility of employment, which can even include such things as zero-hours contracts, which are very convenient and desirable for some people.”
“We did some work with the Centre for Local Economic Strategies last year looking at the loss to the economy from women’s under-participation compared with men, and that loss comes to £88.7 billion. Enabling women to enter the labour market, to stay in the labour market or to increase their working hours has the potential to bring real benefit to both the national and local economy.”
“Another thing is the fair pay agreements in social care, if they were seen as a starting point and extended so that, having started out with social care and looked at how it worked, you looked at other sectors such as early education and childcare. That is a sector very similar to social care, particularly now we have the big extension of funded hours coming in—largely private provision delivering public services that are majority publicly funded, with a majority female workforce on low pay and often working part time. That model of fair pay agreements could not just support women working in those sectors, but support more women into the labour market, if you had available, affordable early education and childcare.”
“Q Thank you, Dr Stephenson. I am really proud that my constituency is the home of the match girls’ strike; the fight for women’s rights in the workplace runs deep in the history of my politics. How do you think the measures in the Bill will benefit women’s workforce participation? You have talked about some of the broader views, but if there is one thing in particular that you think will mark a real difference, I would be keen to know it. Dr Stephenson: As I said, the flexible working provisions particularly benefit women’s labour market participation. Some of it is not just about participation, but about improved pay and conditions; for example, the end to exploitative zero-hours contracts improves women’s position in the labour market, which means they are less likely to leave the labour market.”
“Having a more engaged and well-remunerated workforce has been shown to actually boost profits. The fact that the OECD was referred to by the Resolution Foundation as a body that believes that greater workers’ rights actually improve the economic outcome of the country is a really important factor that we need to emphasise.”
“Q We heard from two business voices today that were not perhaps entirely reflective of the rest of our views. I have more than 12,500 businesses in my constituency of Stratford and Bow, of which more than 5,500 are small and medium-sized businesses. I have met lots of them over the course of the last year. I have certainly not heard similar views. We also heard from legal experts, who said that the Bill brings us closer to OECD norms than perhaps was said. Can you tell us how businesses will benefit from the Bill? Justin Madders: There is generally an acceptance, both in the economic analysis we have heard from some of the witnesses today and from businesses themselves, that getting a motivated, engaged and retained workforce is good for productivity and the business overall.”
“The introduction of equality reps’ rights will provide an important focus to say that equality must be at the heart of the negotiating agenda within workplaces. Alongside that, I recognise that there are improvements to parental rights that will help to ensure that there is a fairer share of parental responsibilities in the home. We have already talked about a lot of zero-hours contract workers being women. One of the things we are very aware of in hospitality is that, too often, employers bring in too many workers for shifts and say: “Sorry, we do not need you any more. Go home.” They then cancel a shift without any compensation for the workers for their travel time, costs or childcare. We hope the Bill will help to address some of those concerns.”
“But I think we have really good early indications that a living wage for care workers, and the full involvement of unionised care workers in the delivery and shaping of their services, can pay enormous dividends. We are a long way from getting it right in Scotland, but I think we have got a good start there, which I hope some of the legislation here will reflect. Hannah Reed: Very briefly, I fully endorse what colleagues have said. I am not going to repeat it, so as not to take the Committee’s time. Many women are part of trade unions because they want their voices heard and they want to be able to address issues such as inequality, bullying and pay discrimination in the workplace.”
“Dave Moxham: We have been fortunate in Scotland—not completely fortunate—to get a bit of a head start on some of this discussion, particularly about low-paid care workers. We have a strong developing consensus that care workers’ voices are women’s voices in the collective bargaining arena, and that is something that we want to develop in Scotland. It is something that I think the Bill may just have to address for Scotland, because this is one of those situations where, because of the devolved nature of the delivery of care, we may need to invest powers in the Scottish Government rather than the Secretary of State. That is something we would intend to submit to the Committee on.”
“You could sum up this Bill in lots of different ways, but it is going to make such a difference to carers who care as a profession but also to carers who have caring responsibilities outside work, most of whom are women. I will not touch on the fair pay agreement, because Paul already has, but the other area is the reinstatement of the school support staff negotiating body. These workers are again majority women and majority working part time. It will be transformative for those workers to have a set of standard terms and conditions, opportunities for training and salary, and not to have to take part-time jobs outside of their school work to be able to make ends meet. That will be the transformation for women.”
“That is alongside all the other provisions in the Bill—for example, the presumption around flexible working, which will allow people to balance work and family life but also, crucially, allow us to bring people back into the labour market who are struggling at the moment to find work that suits their caring and other responsibilities. There is a whole range of provisions in the Bill that will have a direct, positive impact on women at work, and a direct impact on those sectors in which we know that low-paid, insecure employment is most concentrated—retail, social care and hospitality. Maggi Ferncombe: I represent Unison. We are 80% women. I talked at the very beginning about the significant difference this Bill will make, but I will give you some examples. Paul touched on flexible working.”
“I am really pleased to see that the TUC has said that “Labour’s Employment Rights Bill is so vital for women’s pay and equality.” I am keen to hear your thoughts on why you think that is, and other reflections from the panel. Paul Nowak: It would be good to hear from colleagues from Unison and Unite, who directly represent hundreds of thousands of women at work. We know, for example, that women are more likely to be employed on zero-hours contracts, and are more likely to be in low-paid occupations. I think things like the fair pay agreement in social care could have a transformative impact on the lives of hundreds of thousands of women who go out to work.”
“Q Thank you, panel, for your thoughts and representations today. My constituency of Stratford and Bow has a rich history—I am sad that the hon. Member for Mid Buckinghamshire is not here at the moment to listen to this part—and we are rooted in the fight for working people’s rights. It is the site of the 1888 London Bryant and May strike, better known as the matchgirls’ strike. Paul, 136 years ago, Sarah Chapman was first elected as the TUC rep from the then-formed Matchmakers’ Union. She fought ardently for women’s rights, and she made great representations at the TUC for women’s rights, but it has been 136 years and there is still much more to do for women in the workplace.”
“Q Thank you both for your representations. Joeli, I follow your work and have a lot of friends who have followed Pregnant Then Screwed—thank you. Jemima, I have read the Fawcett Society’s report on the gender pay gap, and heard your views here. Listening to you both today has put some new questions in my head on top of those that I already wanted to ask. You have both talked about maternity provisions and what they could mean for the country. More broadly, what is the benefit to the economy and to businesses of having stronger maternity provisions as set out in the Bill? Joeli Brearley: By maternity provisions, do you mean maternity leave and pay?”
“Secondly—I know it is not within this Committee’s scope but I have to mention it—our childcare system is a chaotic mess. It needs to be affordable and it needs to be accessible. Until that happens, women will take a step back from their careers. We also need enhanced redundancy protections, like what is in this Bill, but we need them to be very specific and to be about, “If the business fails—””
“What we need to see—and what we have been campaigning for—to change this is, first, ringfenced, properly paid paternity leave, because until an employer sees any employee as somebody who could go off when they have a child, they will always have a bias against women. At the moment, men do not take time off—a maximum of two weeks, often—once they have become a father, so they are not seen as a risk, whereas women are seen as a risk, so that bias starts in the recruitment process. We know that if we ringfence paternity leave and pay it properly, men will take time out, which also reduces the unpaid labour gap; we know that men tend to do less of the unpaid labour, so taking these steps would mean that women could excel more in their careers.”
“Yes, maternity rights. Joeli Brearley: As I mentioned before, we know that 54,000 women a year are pushed out of their jobs from the point that they get pregnant, while pregnant, while taking maternity leave or just after they return. That is one in nine; it is a woman every 10 minutes. What tends to happen is that it takes those women a very long time to recover. Sometimes it is a slow drip feed of bullying and harassment, because people know that just pushing them out is unlawful and they could go to tribunal. This is severely damaging to women’s careers, and to their first year with their new baby—it really damages their mental health—and it is a big contributor to the gender pay gap. We do not know exactly how much it contributes to the gender pay gap, but it obviously is a big contributor.”
“Q Thank you, David—you have expressed some quite strong views. My constituency of Stratford and Bow has over 12,500 registered business, of which over 5,000 would count as small businesses. I note that the FSB has a consultation open that closes today seeking the views of those businesses. I have not received representations from small businesses that reflect what you are saying, but I would be interested to see what the FSB’s consultation comes back with. My question is, with the Bill in its current state, how can the Government work with small businesses to support implementation measures?”
“Can I get short modular courses on management training to help me figure out the legalities of this?” What resources will be available to support and not just regulate? You cannot regulate positive workplace culture into existence.”
“That is being evaluated by the behavioural insights team to understand what good-quality business support on the people side looks like, and what a cost-effective system of providing that would look like as well. Some of those areas also need to be thought about if we are looking at creating a system where there can be a step change in people management capability and employment standards. Cathryn Moses-Stone: Just to add one more thing, we need to streamline the enforcement processes and provide really clear guidance and support. It is all about those comms coming from Government, not just the scaremongering legal side. A small business should be able to log on and ask, “What support can I get?”
“We have to look at not only national enforcement efforts but how efforts to support small firms work at a regional level, such as with combined authority areas, and the interface and being joined up at that level is really important. One of the things that we are doing currently is the Government-funded HR support pilots through which we provide a limited amount of pump-priming HR consultancy support. We are working with Angus council in Scotland, as well as the Tees Valley combined authority and the Bournemouth, Christchurch and Poole council. They have a number of our CIPD-qualified HR consultants who provide up to two days of pump-priming HR consultancy support to small firms.”
“The consultation and engagement should be kept going so that businesses understand what is coming. Back to Cathryn’s point about seeing the greater good of this, if you get through what might be some initial pain in making some changes to your policy and implementing those changes, it is for the greater good. I suppose a lot of what I talk about is joining the dots between having happy, thriving workplaces and having more productive, successful businesses. It is about understanding that raising these standards and making working environments better for people is better for not just the people in them but the businesses themselves. Ben Willmott: I think we need to look at how the system as a whole will work, particularly on that point about labour market enforcement.”
“Q Carly, this question is to you as well. The number of questions coming to you reflects the fact that we need your mission to help us to be a happy, healthy, thriving workforce in Parliament. How can we use the Bill to communicate the measures available to businesses? We heard from a previous panel that businesses may not be aware of what is coming in. How can we use some of the transformative measures in the Bill to promote happy, healthy workplace cultures? Carly Cannings: I have reached out to businesses to try to get a sense of what is going on. At the moment, because there are lots of gaps in the detail, employers probably are not focusing their minds so much on the detail of the Bill. I suppose it comes off the back of the Budget and the NI changes. There is probably a lot for employers to get their heads around at the moment.”
“But we need to go further and faster, and I think that that is something we all agree on in this room. Alongside such innovation, global interventions and collective effort are needed to control and prevent marine plastic pollution, to safeguard human and ecological health and to defend against biodiversity loss. Next week’s meeting of the intergovernmental negotiating committee is a pivotal moment. I join my hon. Friend the Member for Stroud and my constituents in Stratford and Bow in calling on all member states present at Busan to push for legally binding instruments based on a comprehensive approach that addresses the full life cycle of plastics. This is a huge opportunity for climate and nature leadership on the world stage, and an opportunity to guarantee a safer, cleaner planet for all of us and for future generations.”
“East London is where Alexander Parkes invented the first thermoplastic in 1877, but nearly 150 years later it is the proud home of innovative work to end the harm caused by single-use plastic. Earlier this month, I visited Notpla, a world-changing start-up based in my constituency. In 2022 it won the Earthshot prize for its work on creating an alternative to plastic made from seaweed and plants. Notpla has already replaced 13 million single-use plastic products with its technology, which biodegrades as fast as orange peel. It is not just changing how we use and dispose of plastic waste, but seeking to end our addiction to single-use plastics altogether. It is just one example of the creativity and ambition that already exists, which is needed to support the Government’s commitment to reduce waste by moving to a circular economy.”
“According to the UN Environment Programme, 1 million plastic bottles are purchased every minute, and half of all plastic produced is designed for single-use purposes—it is used once and just thrown away. We have long known about the harm that plastic pollution causes. Microplastics are prevalent in our natural world, where they damage environmental health and our rivers and canals and impact our oceans’ carbon sequestration. My hon. Friend set out the effects on our bodies: 77% of people have microplastics in their blood, and the most commonly detected plastic is PET, which is used to make single-use plastic bottles. Why am I, the Member for Stratford and Bow, speaking in this important debate?”
“I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Stroud (Dr Opher) for securing this important debate ahead of the fifth session of the intergovernmental negotiating committee on plastic pollution, which begins next week in Busan, Korea. He mentioned the all-important biodiversity COP in Cali, Colombia. I was proud to be part of the UK’s cross-party official delegation making the case for climate and nature at that important gathering. I have heard from many constituents in Stratford and Bow who are deeply concerned about the environmental harm caused by plastic waste in our rivers and oceans. They want to see ambitious action here at home as well as on a global scale, and they want the UK to be a global leader.”
“The Darzi report revealed the scale of the challenges that our health service faces, especially with stroke services, and the severe impact of the underfunding of the last Conservative Government.”
“I would just like to share my experience. On my first day here in the Commons, my husband suffered a stroke. This is a timely debate, so I thank the hon. Member for securing it. I am pleased to say that my husband is doing much better now, and he is here in the Gallery of the Chamber, as are those from the Stroke Association, who have been absolutely invaluable to our family and many stroke survivors across the country. I would like to pick up a point that the hon. Member made about stroke. One in four strokes happens to people of working age, and one in three in this group will have to give up their jobs. It is very clear that, although the NHS has given excellent care to my husband and to families such as mine, there is much more to be done.”
“The United Nations acting Under-Secretary-General for Humanitarian Affairs and Emergency Relief Coordinator has released a statement in which she says: “Hospitals have been hit and health workers have been detained. Shelters have been emptied and burned down. First responders have been prevented from saving people from under the rubble.” Tens of thousands of people have been killed. That is a shocking and terrifying statement. Her statement goes on to say: “The entire population of North Gaza is at risk of dying.” Will the Foreign Secretary confirm that the UK will use its role as chair of the UN Security Council in November to push for urgent progress on humanitarian access, the protection of civilians, freeing the hostages, and bringing to an end this terrible conflict?”
“We heard extensively from our witnesses that if the Bill does not give GB Energy the ability to innovate and advance, or to be flexible, there may be constraints in the years ahead. That is why we do not need the amendment. Community Energy Newham is looking to provide our local library with a cleaner source of energy. As I said, many Members have exciting projects in their constituencies. That is why it is so important to maintain this cross-party support for the Bill and get it through as quickly as possible, so that not only our constituents but the whole country can benefit from Great British Energy.”
“It is really good to see this cross-party support for community energy. I am sure all Members here today can speak to brilliant innovations in their constituencies. I have one in my constituency of Stratford and Bow, Community Energy Newham: its vision, very much like that of the Government, is to provide clean, affordable energy to homes and public buildings across the borough of Newham. As we heard extensively on Second Reading, GB Energy will be owned by and for the British people, to help to promote energy independence, as well as to maintain Britain’s standing as a global leader. I echo the comments of my hon. Friend the Member for Monmouthshire. The Bill has already baked in the fact that community energy will be possible.”
“Q I will keep it short. Thank you both for your insights today. I would like to know what advantages other European countries have from a state-owned energy company. Tristan Zipfel: If you take the example of France, EDF is indeed state owned, but it is a competitive market. Nowadays, EDF is one actor among others. If you take, for instance, offshore wind in France, EDF competes—sometimes it wins, and sometimes it does not. The benefit for the general public is a sense that that body can execute the strategic vision of the French Government in delivering net zero or a decarbonised future. EDF is very much the arm that executes that vision—independently, at arm’s length, but it does it. I also think there is a creation of long-term value by the ownership of assets. EDF provides dividends to the French state, which I think are valuable.”
“Merci. Alistair McGirr: If I may add to that, there is the question of the role of the state. Not everything has to be through GB Energy or the national wealth fund. In terms of the GB Energy policy framework, the creation of the National Energy System Operator can help to drive a lot of economic value through the transition here in GB by taking a much more strategic approach to how infrastructure is going to be deployed. GB Energy is one element of that, but I think the wider value can be brought together by a more strategic approach through the policy framework.”