Dr Al Pinkerton
MP for Surrey Heath · Liberal Democrat · United Kingdom
“Self-determination is and must remain the bedrock of our relationship with all our overseas territories. Sadly, that is especially important to say today after the disgraceful scenes in Atlanta last night, where football was used as a platform to challenge the democratic right of Falkland Islanders to determine their own future.”
“I draw the attention of the House to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests, having had the privilege of visiting Gibraltar last July. I warmly welcome the agreement and congratulate the Minister and the Government, together with Gibraltar’s Chief Minister and Deputy Chief Minister on securing it.”
“That may work tolerably at airports—actually, I am not sure that it does, given the words of the chief executive of Aeroporti di Roma this week—but at one of Europe’s busiest land borders, it risks creating queues measured not in minutes but in hours.”
“It is a great pleasure to serve with you in the Chair, Sir John. I congratulate the hon. Member for Brigg and Immingham (Martin Vickers) on securing this important debate. I draw Members’ attention to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests.”
“It achieves the objective that matters above all others: preserving British sovereignty over Gibraltar while providing a practical solution to the problems that have hung over the territory since Brexit.”
“With more than 9.4 million visitors entering Gibraltar annually across the border, compared with around 184,000 by air, smoother movement would benefit Gibraltar’s economy while reducing friction for communities on both sides of the frontier. Concerns have understandably been raised about the Schengen 90/180-day rule for air arrivals.”
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“How many more lives need to be lost? This war did not begin in 2022, with Russia’s full-scale invasion. As we know, it began in 2014, with the illegal seizure of Crimea. That annexation set the stage for the violence, brutality and inhumanity we see today. Russia’s aggression now threatens European security as a whole. Millions of Ukrainians have been displaced from their homes, entire communities destroyed and the social fabric torn apart, leaving trauma that will span generations. As we have heard several times today, the most harrowing horror of all is the systematic abduction of Ukrainian children. At least 19,000 children have been taken, stolen, cynically and evilly—abduction and exploitation as a most appalling weapon of war. A moral red line has been crossed, and crossed again.”
“While the global geopolitical scene may have been shaken and upended by his imperial ambitions, the true cost of this war—the fullest cost—has been borne by the people of Ukraine, in the form of the atrocities committed and the suffering of the Ukrainian families who are the direct victims of his malicious and destructive impulses. Today in Ukraine, there is active hand-to-hand combat, the military lines are active and volatile, and Ukrainian cities face relentless bombardment. Critical infrastructure is targeted, civilian lives are under constant threat and the human toll grows. Since February 2022, Ukraine has reported more than 14,000 civilians killed and more than 38,000 injured. More than 1 million Russian personnel have been killed or injured, and the Ukrainian military toll is more than 46,000 killed and 380,000 wounded.”
“I thank the hon. Member for Harwich and North Essex (Sir Bernard Jenkin) for securing this very important debate. There have been plaudits and praise enough for all the speeches made by Members across this House—they have been an extraordinary collection of speeches and thoughtful interventions that show intellectual clarity and deep emotional connection. I am grateful to all Members who have spoken. It is absolutely clear that Vladimir Putin poses an existential threat to Ukraine and a once-in-a-generation threat to European security. For far too long, he has been allowed to wield grotesquely disproportionate influence over global diplomacy and security, and the consequences have been catastrophic.”
“I have been contacted by many Surrey Heath constituents who often worked for very large American companies such as Atos. These companies are refusing to offer the pre-1997 uplift, and from what I understand, the pensions fall outside both the PPF and the FAS. Can the Minister offer any reassurance to those pensioners today and explain how they can continue to survive on such diminishing returns from the pensions they paid into?”
“The hon. Lady mentioned Atos. I have several constituents who worked for that company who find themselves in precisely the situation she describes. I thank her for the speech she is making and, on behalf of my constituents, I hope that those on the Front Bench are listening to her suggestions.”
“With growing Chinese espionage, Russian aggression on the European continent and a capricious President in the United States, it is more important than ever that we deepen our security co-operation with our European allies. Can I ask the Minister explicitly whether he recognises, as I do, that the UK’s deepest possible participation in the EU’s Security Action for Europe scheme is vital to common European security? What have he and the Government done to try to prompt the restart of the negotiations with the European Union that sadly broke down last week?”
“In Surrey Heath, which is, I am slightly ashamed to say, the second most car-dependent constituency in the entire country, that is especially damaging. With slow and infrequent buses, limited rail capacity and persistent congestion on arterial roads—most famously the A322 and junction 3 of the M3—public transport is simply not a realistic alternative. For many young people, being unable to drive directly restricts access to education, training and entry-level employment.”
“Across Surrey Heath, families describe a weekly ritual of setting alarms at 5.30 am, logging on to the Driving and Vehicle Standards Agency website, and joining a queue of thousands of people before the 6 am release of driving test slots. Even when local slots become available, they can vanish within seconds due to website glitches, failed payments or fierce automated competition from bots, similar to the scramble for Oasis or Taylor Swift tickets. Yet unlike those elusive one-off concerts, this frustrating and anxiety-ridden cycle repeats every Monday, often for weeks and months, before many are finally able to secure a test. Young people who have worked hard to reach test readiness find themselves stuck in prolonged limbo. Their confidence declines, practical skills fade and their opportunities narrow.”
“I beg to move, That this House has considered the availability of driving tests in the South East. It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship this morning, Mrs Harris. I extend my gratitude to all right hon. and hon. Members for participating in this important debate on a topic that occupies a large part of their email inboxes every week, if theirs are anything like mine. I want to begin by thanking the hundreds of Surrey Heath residents who responded to my driving test survey, and the 165 people who completed the survey organised by the Chamber engagement team over recent days and weeks. Since becoming the Member of Parliament for Surrey Heath, the driving test has been one of the most persistent issues in my email inbox over the last 16 months.”
“I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his observations. I also have constituents who have caring responsibilities and find themselves unable to fulfil those to the fullest capacity that they would like to because of those restrictions. Of course, on Budget day we also think about economic growth and the curtailed economic opportunities that young people have. If we want to make our economy grow again, everybody needs to be able to work to the fullest extent that they can.”
“One of my constituents, George, has been trying to acquire a driving test for two years after passing his theory test. He is autistic and unable to undertake long journeys to distant test centres, yet he receives no preferential consideration despite being registered for personal independence payments. He told me that he is losing heart over driving, and fears that without a licence he may be condemned to welfare dependency for life, as he is unable to reach his job in hospitality, which requires late-evening travel that public transport in Surrey Heath simply does not support. That is not an isolated case; it is emblematic of a system that is failing the people who rely on it most.”
“I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his observation. He is right to identify that rural and semi-rural communities are particularly badly affected, because of the very often skeletal public transport systems. I will come on to potential solutions to the challenge as I reach the conclusion of my contribution. Parents described to me the practical and emotional toll of the crisis: driving teenagers to work or college several times a week, rearranging family routines and supporting young people who are increasingly demoralised. Others tell me that their children have delayed job applications or turned down work altogether because they cannot secure the driving tests they need to unlock those important employment opportunities.”
“I am incredibly grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for that very important observation. The plight of bots stealing places from under people on a Government-registered system strikes me as utterly inappropriate. I have heard internal stories that the DVSA has been in a state of upendedness for some time. I am also grateful to him for his observation about Loveday Ryder. As of June, the average waiting time for a practical driving test stood at about 22 weeks, although the nearest centres for my constituents, in Farnborough and Guildford, reported waits of 24 weeks. Many have told me that they have waited up to a year to secure a test slot.”
“Automated bots secure test slots the moment they are released and resell them at heavily inflated prices—often between £150 and £300.”
“My hon. Friend’s constituents are clearly suffering from exactly the same challenges as mine in Surrey Heath. I will talk about some of the actions that have already been taken, and how they might be pushed further and faster. The delays place immense pressure on learners, particularly those needing to make a second or third attempt at taking their practical test. Many face a further six-month wait for a resit, which forces them to take regular lessons simply to stay test ready. The national pass rate was 49.9% in October 2025, so almost half of all candidates taking their driving test must restart the cycle without any guarantee of a timely retest. One of the most serious concerns that my constituents raise is the prevalence of bots and third-party reselling.”
“One family told me that they undertook a staggering 728-mile round trip to Berwick-upon-Tweed. Another, after spending more than £2,000, had to travel to the Isle of Wight because it was the nearest available test slot.”
“As an MP for a rural constituency, I know that my hon. Friend’s constituents will feel that pressure with particular force. They experience exactly the same kind of employment curtailment as my constituents in Surrey Heath. My constituents have further highlighted that websites such as Pass Faster are advertising guaranteed tests anywhere in the UK within four to six weeks. They charge the £62 DVSA fee, plus an additional £88 finder’s fee. The distorted marketplace leaves many families with no choice but to engage with those services, despite their deep frustration at the cost. Those who cannot face that cycle often end up travelling extraordinary distances. Some Surrey Heath families are forced to book tests in Cornwall, Taunton, Kendal, Birmingham or Leeds—all examples from my own constituents.”
“I absolutely agree. Rochdale undoubtedly has its charms and pleasures, but to be forced to go there to secure a driving test slot seems unfair to the individual involved.”
“I hope the Minister will take the concerns I have outlined seriously and help to restore the accessibility, trust and fairness that young people and families in the south-east deserve.”
“My constituents understand that the pandemic created a significant backlog in driving tests, and they understand the challenges of examiner recruitment. What they cannot accept, nearly half a decade after the pandemic, is a system that forces them to wake at dawn every Monday, travel hundreds of miles for a test or pay inflated fees to third parties, just because the DVSA booking system cannot adequately meet demand. My Surrey Heath constituents need a driving test system that is fair, functional and fit for purpose, and I am sure that right hon. and hon. Members from across the House will agree that the current system is not delivering for young people or, indeed, for older learners—I think we are going to hear a right hon. Member comment on that.”
“They should expand the narrow 6 am Monday release window that fuels intense competition and unnecessary stress for those having to get up at that time. They should implement a genuinely fair geographical set of booking rules, with full transparency over how they are applied, and match them with sufficient test capacity in high-demand areas. As my hon. Friend the Member for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross (Jamie Stone) alluded to, that would require a greater geographical sense of where demand is at its peak. They should explore temporary test centres or extend testing hours to reduce backlogs. Finally, they should implement robust protections against bots and third-party reselling, to restore fairness, trust and integrity in the booking process.”
“The Secretary of State confirmed to the Transport Committee on 12 November that the Government will not meet their target of returning waiting times to seven weeks by the summer of 2026. For families who have already spent months trying to secure a test, that is an unacceptably long timeframe for meaningful improvement. Based on the testimony of my constituents, I urge the Minister to consider the following practical steps that may help to alleviate some of the challenges that we all experience in our constituencies. The Government should introduce a focused programme of enhanced examiner recruitment and retention, particularly in the south-east of England, where demand is demonstrably at its highest.”
“When parents are forced to travel to distant and unfamiliar test centres, the costs rise still further, from fuel and time taken off work to, in some cases, the price of overnight accommodation. Although I welcome the Government’s seven-point plan, including the Department’s commitment to recruit 450 new examiners, the Secretary of State has confirmed that the net gain of new examiners will be only 40. More must be done to retain high-quality examiners and reduce turnover, which continues to drive capacity shortages. The Ministry of Defence’s deployment of 36 defence driving examiners is also a welcome step, but it risks stretching defence resources at a time of increasing geopolitical instability, and will do little to address the extent of the backlog.”
“My hon. Friend can always tempt me further north to his wonderful constituency. We have another example of a rural constituency where constituents feel this pressure acutely. That is neither fair nor sustainable. It undermines confidence in a Government-run system. It places young people in the south-east—if I might focus on them in particular—at a clear disadvantage, and risks eroding test availability for learners across the country. The financial impact on young drivers and families is unaffordable. With lessons costing around £50 per hour and long gaps between tests, families must pay for repeated sessions simply to maintain proficiency. Some local households report spending more than £2,000 just to pass a driving test, while others exceed £5,000 as delays drag on.”
“I am being asked to wrap up—I know it is a busy day in the House—but I pass on my thanks to everyone who has made such valuable contributions, and I hope the Minister has heard some of the very valuable plans that have been laid out for him. Question put and agreed to. Resolved, That this House has considered the availability of driving tests in the South East.”
“Although it may address a short-term issue, it does not necessarily ensure long-term retention of hard-pressed driving instructors. I do not think a Member in this Chamber would ask for a driving centre in every town, but there is a need for a proper geographical understanding of where the main pressure points are in order to seek to develop a regional plan to tackle some of the greatest pressure points. The hon. Member for Bracknell (Peter Swallow) tempted me earlier to back his plan for a test centre in Bracknell; of course, I know that he will support my plan for a test centre in Camberley. We already welcome many of his constituents to our wonderful Frimley Park hospital. Let us continue in that vein.”
“I echo the call of the right hon. Member for Chingford and Woodford Green (Sir Iain Duncan Smith) for a thorough investigation to be undertaken into the DVSA to ensure that, in fact, it is a functional organisation. That may lead to the changes that we all want to see on behalf of our constituents. I also second the suggestion of my hon. Friend the Member for Harrogate and Knaresborough (Tom Gordon) that an impact assessment be undertaken into the decision to block driving instructor bookings of test appointments because, as we have heard in several contributions, that can have a very significant impact on the way the system works in practice. I also say to the Minister that a £5,000 bonus does not an effective workforce plan make.”
“I thank all right hon. and hon. Members who have participated in this very important debate for our constituents. I am very grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Bicester and Woodstock (Calum Miller), the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon), the right hon. Member for Rayleigh and Wickford (Mr Francois), my hon. Friends the Members for Esher and Walton (Monica Harding), for West Dorset (Edward Morello), for Chesham and Amersham (Sarah Green) and for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross (Jamie Stone), and the hon. Member for East Worthing and Shoreham (Tom Rutland) for their sagacious contributions. I am grateful to the Minister for addressing some of the genuine frustrations of our constituents. I am also grateful for his honesty in acknowledging the ineffectiveness of the DVSA in tackling this issue internally.”
“Secondly, will they commit to stronger data sharing and a truly integrated, nationwide healthcare system, so that records follow the patient, not the other way around? Finally, what steps is the Minister taking to winter-proof the likes of Frimley Park hospital in my constituency, so that it can cope with additional demand and also provide support to those with diseases such as COPD that worsen in the colder months? People with COPD and other chronic illnesses deserve continuity of care, wherever they are living. Our NHS must be connected enough to deliver exactly that.”
“Let us take the example of university students, who are not necessarily a high-risk population for COPD. They move between home and campus, yet they can be registered with only one GP surgery at a time. The result is delayed treatment, repeat diagnostics and even difficulty accessing the medication that they rely upon. The burden often falls hardest on those with complex conditions such as COPD, where timely diagnosis and regular specialist input can be life-saving. I have a few key questions for the Government. First, do they agree that people with conditions such as COPD should not face the anxiety of being unable to access the right NHS specialist care, simply because they happen to live in the wrong part of the UK?”
“According to Asthma + Lung UK, there were 2,268,865 emergency hospital admissions for respiratory conditions in England between April 2024 and March 2025, a 23% increase compared with the year before. Worse still, in just the month of December 2024, more than 220,000 were admitted to hospital with breathing emergencies. That is not just a one-off; between April 2024 and March 2025, there were over 405,000 so-called bounce-back admissions, where people are discharged from hospital only to return to A&E within a month. I have heard from numerous constituents of mine in Surrey Heath—not only those with COPD, but many others with chronic conditions—who frequently travel across the country for work or education. However, when they move, their medical records do not.”
“But it does not go away; there is no cure, and when someone with COPD does catch something as common as the winter flu, it can rapidly escalate into other conditions, such as pneumonia. That is why treatment, early diagnosis and proper management are vital. However, a recent King’s College London report, carefully titled “A matter of life and breath”, revealed that COPD sufferers often feel like they live as second-class citizens in the UK—their voices go unheard. I know that the hon. Member for Strangford was involved in the launch of that report in Parliament back in May. Respiratory illnesses are now one of the leading causes of hospital admissions in the UK, yet our healthcare system is still not optimised to support people with long-term conditions effectively.”
“It is a great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Efford. I congratulate my dear friend, the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon), on securing this debate and on his long advocacy for both COPD and other respiratory conditions, which I know he does with his chairman for the APPG for respiratory health hat on. We thank him for all his work, and the vice-chair of that APPG, the hon. Member for Blaydon and Consett (Liz Twist), who spoke just before me. As the hon. Members for Strangford and for Blaydon and Consett have both already said, COPD is the most challenging condition to live with. Many people go undiagnosed for far too long, believing their wheeze, cough and breathlessness is simply result of seasonal winter flu.”
“The National Audit Office recently reported that 98% of the 23,000 homes fitted with external wall insulation under the previous Government schemes are at risk of damp and mould unless they are swiftly remediated. What steps is the Minister taking to ensure that homes in Surrey Heath insulated under those schemes are remediated in a timely and trustworthy manner, and what assessment has he made of the role that home insulation will play in our wider efforts to reduce bills but also protect climate and nature?”
“In the months in which I was the Northern Ireland spokesperson for my party, I engaged with lots of veterans’ groups. Their members told me that they were very keen for this legislation to recognise that they went to Northern Ireland, as service personnel, to restore the rule of law. They recognise that they should be subject to the possibility of prosecution, but prosecution should never turn into persecution. How does my hon. Friend reconcile those points with the issues that he is raising?”
“In advance of this debate, my constituent Tony contacted me to say that he had been diagnosed with Parkinson’s in 2019 but has only seen a specialist three times in the six years that have followed. Does the hon. Lady agree that access to a specialist is vital, not least for quelling anxiety, but also to help those with Parkinson’s to develop plans to help them to live independent lives?”
“I have had meetings with businesses and constituents in Surrey Heath who tell me that they have changed their decisions based on the speculation they have heard in recent weeks and months. We have heard about the rage that some people have felt; in my constituency, I have heard anxiety from people who have drawn down their pension pots and perhaps not pursued the house purchase that they were looking at. Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that, whatever the reality—whether speculation or leaks—this situation is deeply regrettable? If he can do anything at all, will he please ensure that this never happens again?”
“As my hon. Friend well knows, 94% of the UK’s biodiversity lies within the waters of our overseas territories. Just north of the Falkland Islands is the so-called blue hole, an area of unregulated fishing beyond national jurisdiction. It is an area where trackers are turned off and illegal fishing takes place. Does she agree that the ratification of the BBNJ agreement may provide the opportunity—the common cause—to tackle intractable geopolitical issues that have led to that lack of regulation, and may point to a way forward for the international co-operation of which she speaks?”
“My constituent John has experienced prolonged periods of unemployment —he has been employed for only four of the past 14 years—and I think his experience is redolent of that of many other people with autism who feel that they are not getting the support that they need. Does my hon. Friend agree that not only do potential employees need support, but employers need education to help them facilitate economic independence for adults with autism?”
“I have been contacted by a Surrey Heath resident who has not just endured and survived appalling domestic abuse but is now enduring and attempting to survive the family court process, with multiple hearings over child contact arrangements. Will the Minister commit today to implementing the Domestic Abuse Commissioner’s recent recommendations to better protect children at risk?”
“Does the Secretary of State agree that the BBC provides a vital connection to our past that unifies us and that, as well as being a source of education, information and entertainment, it is also a great source of national resilience?”
“Earlier this year, as part of the armed forces parliamentary scheme, I had the great privilege of visiting the 77th Brigade—the anti-Russian disinformation brigade of the British Army down in Newbury. The experts on the front line of the information wars told us that the British population are being subjected to tens of thousands of messages every single day designed to seed distrust between Government and citizen and break our belief in our institutions. The United Kingdom is in an incredibly privileged position in that we have a state broadcaster that provides us with something that might resemble a national culture. If we were to lose that, we would be feeding the forces that stand against us.”
“For decades, the convention and the European Court of Human Rights, which enforces it, have protected the rights of millions, including our own citizens—defending free speech and fair trials, advancing equality for women, securing justice for our military veterans, the LGBT community and those with disabilities, and holding Governments of every colour to account. Today, the Council of Europe, membership of which is predicated on ECHR adherence, helps us to combat terrorism, cyber-crime, corruption and money laundering, as well as human trafficking and other forms of organised crime, yet there are some in this House who would turn their back on that legacy and those instruments. They would align us with Russia, a nation expelled from the Council of Europe in 2022 after its unlawful invasion of our close ally Ukraine.”
“Thank you, Mr Mundell. It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship. I thank the hon. Member for Stourbridge (Cat Eccles) for securing this important debate, and other Members—most of them, at least—for their contributions. The Council of Europe is one of the post-war generation’s quiet triumphs. It was Winston Churchill, speaking in Zurich in 1946, who called for the creation of a Council of Europe to safeguard peace and freedom across our continent. Just three years later, the UK became one of its 10 founding members, and from the outset it represented something profoundly British: a belief that democracy, human rights and the rule of law should not stop at our own shores; they are international values. Of course, the Council’s crowning achievement is the European convention on human rights.”
“As authoritarianism rises and war returns to our continent, the Council’s role has never been more vital. Its expulsion of Russia was an act not of punishment, but of principle—a reminder that tyranny cannot co-exist with liberty. What becomes of Britain’s claim to moral leadership if we abandon the very human rights system we helped to build? What becomes of the rule of law, at home and abroad, if the United Kingdom decides that it no longer needs to be bound by it? Our rights—our particular British rights—have been formed over a millennium of conflict, struggle and reform. We surrender them at our peril.”
“It is truly shameful company for us to maintain, and there is nothing virtuous or patriotic about calling for our withdrawal. Indeed, those calling for withdrawal, in pursuit of a single policy objective—ending illegal migration—should heed a deeper warning. In “A Man for All Seasons”, the playwright Robert Bolt, through the character of Sir Thomas More, observes of England: “This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man’s laws, not God’s! And if you cut them down…do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I’d give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety’s sake!” If we cut down the laws that shield even the unpopular or the accused, we will soon find that there is no shelter left for any of us.”
“We also have the phenomenon of HMO properties in my constituency. If someone were to apply to build a block of six apartments, they would have to go through a proper planning process, with things such as parking being considered. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the licensing regime needs to be significantly tightened to give local authorities the power to think about things such as parking and bin storage prior to an HMO licence being issued?”
“I am grateful to my hon. Friend for giving way four times in such quick succession. Of the £40 million of business rates levied this year by Surrey Heath borough council, only £1 million has been retained locally. Given that borough councils levy business rates and that businesses have an expectation that the money is retained locally, does my hon. Friend agree with me that it is vital that the money gets put back into the local economy to improve infrastructure and to increase the sense of place? If that cannot be done, perhaps business rates should be scrapped altogether and replaced with a more just way of raising funds.”
“I congratulate my hon. Friend on bringing this important debate. I have been to Srebrenica, and I was in Sudan in 2022. As I travelled with my research team to the northern Nubian desert, our path was blocked by the presence of the Wagner Group, which was training the RSF militia and extracting vast quantities of gold. This is an internationalised civil war. Does my hon. Friend agree that an internationalised civil war requires an internationalised solution? Britain is morally bound to play a leading role in assembling a coalition of the willing.”
“May I begin by associating myself and my party with the sentiments reflected by the Secretary of State about the terrible events in Huntingdon at the weekend? The Secretary of State’s ambition to reverse the outflows from our armed forces is absolutely right, particularly considering the damage the last Government did to our military, but it is far from clear that the Government are doing enough to achieve the necessary changes. There continue to be more service personnel leaving the Army year on year than are joining. In order to strengthen our defence, we need to give more people better incentives to join the armed forces. Will the Minister consider accelerating recruitment properly and tackling outflow rates by backing Liberal Democrat proposals for a £10,000 signing bonus to attract new recruits?”