Olly Glover
MP for Didcot and Wantage · Liberal Democrat · United Kingdom
“The Secretary of State’s suggestion that local identities are being considered will come as a huge surprise to my constituents in Culham and Clifton Hampden, which, although many miles from Oxford city centre and surrounded by countryside, will be incorporated into Greater Oxford.”
“As highlighted by Wildlife and Countryside Link, the draft NPPF would limit local ambition and powers by preventing local planning authorities from requiring biodiversity net gain above the statutory 10% minimum. That seems like a retrograde step.”
“I am certainly interested to hear from the Minister whether he feels that the Planning Inspectorate has the resources to cope with an increase in the number of plans to examine and assess. The right hon. Member for East Hampshire (Damian Hinds) made a very important point about the implications of local government reorganisation.”
“I thank the Secretary of State for advance sight of his statement. I recognise that a lot of work has gone into the proposals by a lot of people, but many of the details add to an existing impression of chaos. We are finally getting sight of the detail just 9.5 months before many affected areas have elections.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Sir Desmond. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Wells and Mendip Hills (Tessa Munt) for securing a debate on this important topic very much in the spirit of end-of-term relaxation. I want to start with some of the positives of the new draft NPPF.”
“More could be done to clarify the planning system and permissions for houses in multiple occupation. Such properties are often associated with parking and waste issues and, unlike larger HMOs, they may not be subject to requirements on parking provision, room sizes or amenity space, potentially resulting in poorer living conditions.”
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“In so doing, we will make the rail offer more attractive to the travelling public and ensure that people do not have bad experiences, as did my friend Jen from Wallingford who, after a particularly terrible journey between London and Glasgow on Avanti West Coast, has now returned to driving, even though the distance is—off the top of my head—some 350 miles. Our proposal would require the Secretary of State to lay a passenger charter before Parliament within six months of the Act’s being passed. That updated charter would look at providing value-for-money guarantees not just for delays, but for provision of other amenities, with reasonable waivers such as for journeys under 30 minutes, which can be subject to commuter-heavy loading at peak times. The whole principle of delay repay should be protected.”
“The issue is not necessarily about moving to this tomorrow; there are many older trains on our network that require either upgrading or replacement with modern amenities, but where the amenities exist they should be provided. It should no longer be considered a luxury to have functioning wi-fi or a mobile phone signal so that people can be productive on the train. Toilets should be reliable, a seat should not be considered a luxury—a standard class ticket does not entitle one to a seat—and there should be adequate space for luggage, pushchairs, bicycles and so on.”
“Amendment 130 and new clause 8 constitute a Liberal Democrat proposal to introduce a 21st century update to passenger charters. I shall seek to be concise; in the unlikely event that hon. Members would like to hear more, I should say that I gave a ten-minute rule Bill speech on the subject in the House of Commons yesterday. For context, given above-inflation fare increases over many decades, which I alluded to earlier, the modern rail passenger rightly expects more than they often get. On-board amenities are generally not subject to any form of compensation provision should they not be available. Indeed, passenger charters generally make good noises about having such amenities, but they do not get the same guarantees for them as they do for delays.”
“I said earlier that we want to press new clause 8 to a vote. I expect I have to take guidance from the Clerk as to whether a vote on that or on amendment 130 would be most helpful—either is good with us.”
“For catering, my temptation would have been to go even further and wax lyrical about restaurant cars on Swiss railways or Austrian railways, which—if anybody has not enjoyed them—should be very welcome. In Switzerland, even inter-city trains of just two hours always have a restaurant car, and they have a separate division for on-train catering, which is in-house—they take it very seriously. I have been on 55-minute journeys across Switzerland and have been attended to straight away. It is inexpensive and very good. I have decided not to be too prescriptive and to just talk about onboard catering. It is then for GBR, or whoever, to decide if they wish to embrace that particular bit of Swiss excellence, as well as electrification, as I mentioned earlier. I think I have said more than enough, Sir Alec.”
“That includes the premature withdrawal of British Rail class 455 trains on Southern without a replacement and class 365 trains on the Great Northern network. A lot of these poor decisions were made following the pandemic to save cost in the short term, which has added to some of the overcrowding problems—many of which are preventable. We have included a 30-minute minimum duration in new clause 8 to try to be reasonable and to recognise that things are not always perfect. In conclusion, we are putting a passengers’ charter forward because we feel that there is value in improving the onboard offer and making it consistent. There are things in the charter that would support other elements of the Bill by strengthening accessibility provision.”
“We also want to add teeth with subsection (2)(f), which is all about making it easier for people to claim compensation and allowing them to do so digitally rather than just on paper. In fairness, a lot of that has improved, and we hope it will continue to improve. I also want to address the very fair point made by the hon. Member for Bexleyheath and Crayford. The challenge with these things is always where to define the cut-off, but it should not be inevitable that commuters in south-east London, Greater Manchester or anywhere else should have to stand by default. Rolling stock cuts without replacements on some routes—maybe not the hon. Gentleman’s, but elsewhere—have partly added to some of those problems.”
“Given the Minister’s comments about micromanaging, which I find encouraging, I look forward to hearing what he has to say about the later amendments that are designed to dilute the Secretary of State’s ability to interfere. Hopefully, given his comments, he might be minded to give them a fair hearing, but we shall see when the time comes. The right hon. Member for Melton and Syston makes the good point that these things need to have teeth, and that is the intention of clause 8(2)(e), which would extend the delay repay principle to onboard amenities. Work would clearly need to be done to establish a sensible framework for the evidence requirement for people submitting claims—that would need to be thought through further—but that has not been prescribed here precisely because that would be a matter for GBR.”
“If you will indulge me, Sir Alec, I will briefly respond to the points that have been made. I thank the Minister for his comments. He will know from our past interactions on this that I very much agree with him that we definitely do not want the micromanagement and overprescription of GBR. That would be absolutely inimical to what I want to see happening, but there is a distinction to be made between setting the overall standards and the implementation of the work needed to meet those standards. I do not read the rest of the Bill as quite saying, “We’re just going to let GBR crack on and define everything from scratch for itself”.”
“I beg to move amendment 133, in clause 3, page 2, line 39, at end insert— “(4A) Great British Railways must, when exercising its statutory functions, seek to increase passenger traffic on railways. (4B) Great British Railways must set and publish targets in relation to subsection (4A).” This amendment would require Great British Railways to exercise its statutory functions with a view to increasing passenger numbers.”
“Freight is arguably neglected on our network and the economic and environmental benefits are absolutely enormous, especially if electrically hauled. One freight train is able to convey many containers or aggregate wagons and take dozens of lorries off the road. We therefore very much support the freight growth target, but feel that there should also be a passenger growth target. Many of our roads are plagued by congestion and many people opt to take the car who, in other circumstances, would like to take the train, but have either had negative experience of overcrowding or fear that they could be subject to overcrowding and a bad experience. Amendment 133 would require GBR to set a target for increasing passenger traffic and publish progress in relation to how it will achieve that.”
“The length and complexity of this amendment mean that hopefully I will be able to relieve hon. Members by making a very concise speech. The Liberal Democrats welcome the Government’s commitment to a freight growth target as part of GBR. It is good that we have greater ambitions for the carriage of rail freight on our rail network, which tends to lag behind most European competitors in modal share. However, we think that the Bill has missed an opportunity by not including a comparable target for passenger growth. I have heard the argument made in front of the Select Committee and other forums that that could compromise or undermine the freight growth. I disagree with that premise. As so often in life, it is not either/or; it is both/and. Railways are useful for both passengers and freight.”
“I am trying not to make too many interventions or to be tedious, but I cannot resist the temptation of that. Where the choice is either/or, does that not suggest that that particular route line requires an upgrade to provide sufficient capacity for both?”
“I thank the Minister for his comments. I do not doubt that his intentions are genuine and that he would like to see the Bill and GBR lead to greater passenger numbers, but I gently suggest that that cannot necessarily be taken as read. In periods in the past—arguably to a smaller extent since the pandemic, but to a much greater extent going back to the 1980s and before—there was an approach called managed decline. That was a Trojan horse for closing a line of route; intentional efforts were made to reduce passenger numbers. I do not think it can be taken as read that there will always be a desire to grow the network.”
“It would be perfectly sensible for targets to be set by a business unit, or whatever it is going to be—it is currently Network Rail routes and Network Rail regions. There is plenty of room for nuance. This is simply about the principle that GBR should have increasing passenger numbers as a statutory function. I would therefore like to press the amendment to a vote.”
“Thank you, Sir Alec. I say to the Minister that there but for the grace of God go I. I totally understand what he is saying, but it is perhaps slightly paradoxical: if there are all these reasons why it is almost inevitable that the Secretary of State will want to do this anyway, what is the harm of having a provision in the Bill? The Minister made some very good points about nuance and needing to have the right targets for the right part of the country, but amendment 133 to clause 3 does not preclude that. Critically, proposed new subsection (4B) says that GBR must set and publish “targets”. It does not suggest that there should be one big monolithic target for the entire nation that everything would need to be attuned to.”
“Because rail is not devolved, Wales has no protection when England-only rail projects are classified in ways that deny Wales consequential funding. That has resulted in Wales missing out on billions of pounds of investment from projects such as HS2, Northern Powerhouse Rail and East West Rail, while the Governments in Scotland and Northern Ireland have received consequential funding to spend on their own rail projects. The new clause would align responsibility and accountability, and ensure that decisions affecting Welsh rail are made in Wales. I believe that this was a campaign backed by Welsh Labour MPs prior to the general election, so I look forward to hearing the Minister’s comments.”
“I wish to speak in favour of new clause 30, tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Brecon, Radnor and Cwm Tawe (David Chadwick), who is the Liberal Democrat spokesperson for Wales. His new clause seeks to remove rail transport from the list of powers reserved to Westminster and to require the UK Government to transfer responsibility for rail in Wales to Welsh Ministers in the Senedd within two years. In practical terms, that would mean responsibility for rail infrastructure, investment decisions and long-term strategy in Wales sitting with the Welsh Government, rather than being controlled by the UK Secretary of State or Great British Railways. It would put Wales on the same constitutional footing as Scotland, which already has those powers. The reason this matters is that, under the current arrangements, Wales has consistently lost out.”
“If the Minister does not intend to support it, I would genuinely be interested in why. It is simply based on the principle that clause 5 focuses on mayoral strategic authorities, but, because of the ongoing state of flux that local government reorganisation is in—I will not use any stronger words than that—we do not yet know exactly what the final structure will be; we do not know whether everyone is going to get a mayoral strategic authority. I am not an expert on the south-west of England—the hon. Member for South West Devon, sat next to me, is—but I keep hearing, for example, that Cornwall may not be part of a mayoral authority. Surely, it is not the intention of clause 5 to say that GBR would not have to engage with whatever local or regional authority there ends up being in Cornwall, if not a mayoral strategic authority.”
“The Lib Dems think that clause 5 is along the right lines, and it is good that the Government are proposing to enshrine the principle of local consultation and dialogue into the Bill, because that is important for getting our railways and transport on a better footing. With the greatest respect to all Members present, too much in our country is dictated from Whitehall. We need more devolution; we need to listen more to local voices, and that applies as much to railways and transport as it does to anything else. I do, however, see merit in Conservative amendment 232, which is intended to strengthen some of the provisions of clause 5. I will briefly say a little about Liberal Democrat amendment 214, which we see as a very simple and uncontroversial amendment.”
“The aim is simply to cover all our bases, because we do not know where local government reorganisation will take us. Until we get there, it is important that whatever the voices are in a given part of the country, they are heard. Local government is so complicated. It is different in so many bits of the country—even places right next to each other. My constituency covers South Oxfordshire and Vale of White Horse, which have district and county, and then next door in West Berkshire it is unitary. Even there, even in parts of the country that used to be part of the same county—I hope the Campaign for Historic Counties is listening; I do sometimes engage with its Facebook comments—”
“I encourage the hon. Gentleman not to get too carried away by the points on which we have agreed so far, because there will be plenty on which that is not the case. I also encourage Government Members not to get too excited, because I have agreed with them on plenty of things as well. Hopefully that shows that our politics can be more serious and less juvenile and we can all find things on which we agree. Before I make myself feel even more sick, I shall carry on. I understand what the hon. Member for Broadland and Fakenham was saying. The intention of the amendment is not to suggest that GBR should be engaging with district-level authorities by default. Once local government reorganisation is complete and coherent, there will not be any district councils, so that bit will be rendered null and void.”
“I think it is perfectly possible, if the Minister can offer an assurance that the intention is not to exclude any parts of the country that do not benefit from mayoral strategic authorities and can say a little about how he feels that the gap in clause 5 will be covered, that that will be enough to give us some assurance.”
“I thank the hon. Lady for her comments. I think that absolutely was our intention. Perhaps the placement of commas, or semicolons or colons, or dashes if one prefers them—I cannot stand them personally, but some people love them—would have made that clear. The key thing that we are getting at, the thing that is critical, is the last five words of our amendment: “authority with statutory transport responsibilities.” We listed all the ones before that just because it is all so complicated and convoluted. But that was absolutely the intention.”
“Our railway recently celebrated its 250th anniversary, so what better time to reset our ambition and ensure that we will feel even more proud of our railway’s achievements at the 300th anniversary, in 2074? Question put and agreed to. Ordered, That Olly Glover, Edward Morello, Mr Will Forster, Helen Morgan, Steff Aquarone, Helen Maguire, Zöe Franklin, Daisy Cooper, Ian Roome, Martin Wrigley, Charlotte Cane and Liz Jarvis present the Bill. Olly Glover accordingly presented the Bill. Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 27 February, and to be printed (Bill 370 ).”
“The existing delay repay partial refund concept should be expanded to cover such amenities, with appropriate exclusions, such as the entitlement to a seat waived for journeys of under 30 minutes or during major disruption or special events. The advancement of the charter concept brings with it the hope of a truly 21st-century railway, which will attract the patronage needed for the railway’s financial sustainability: a train service that even commuters may look forward to using, because instead of a daily grind, it will be a chance for a relaxed transition between home and workplace, and a long-distance train service that is less of a distress purchase, and more a comfortable, relaxing or productive alternative to a car, whether self-driven or otherwise.”
“It was an error on the part of the Government and the public sector, not the private sector, not to specify fold-down tables, comfortable seats, device-charging sockets or wi-fi for the class 700 Thameslink fleet, ordered in the early 2010s. Given that trains have a lifespan of 30 to 40 years, it is important that we get them right from the beginning, so let us now get this right, with a clear set of minimum and consistent standards for commuter, rural, regional and express passenger trains. Once train fleets consistently have the amenities the modern passenger expects, charters should be expanded to include the principle that what is offered on a given train fleet, whether that is seats, toilets or wi-fi, should be working.”
“High-quality and reliable public transport is essential for social and economic inclusion, so how can a 21st-century refresh of the railway passengers’ charter contribute to a better future? First, we must protect charter arrangements already in place, which principally take the form of delay repay. Perhaps because the UK’s delay compensation arrangements are more generous than elsewhere in Europe, I keep hearing murmurs about ideas to water it down. That would be the wrong approach. The best way to reduce delay repay costs is, of course, to prevent and reduce delays in the first place. Secondly, a refreshed passengers’ charter should be used to learn from past mistakes, regarding design and specification of trains.”
“Their electric car now makes the journey to London significantly cheaper than it would be by train, and some suboptimal experiences of Avanti West Coast’s train service further push them in the car direction. Critics of public transport may ask, well, if the car is becoming greener and cheaper, does it matter if the passenger railway gets left behind? It is my strong contention that it does indeed matter, as it is far from certain that the electric and driverless car revolution will benefit everyone. Nothing can match the train for its ability to convey large numbers of people efficiently, particularly in urban areas, or to offer an on-board environment conducive to work, sleep, rest, eating or listening to music, although in the case of the latter I would ask that everybody uses earphones.”
“Indeed, despite the valiant efforts of many of those who work on the railway, it can seem that railway passengers are almost viewed as hostages, with no viable alternative, which reduces the focus on tackling these problems. However, we live in changing times. Not only does public transport continue to compete with the car’s convenient, connection-free journey from A to B, the economics and operation of cars are changing rapidly. To what degree is the public transport of the 2020s ready for a possible future of widespread driverless and electric cars? An example of the changing economics of long-distance travel is that of my friends Mark and Kev, who live in Newton-le-Willows, halfway between Manchester and Liverpool.”
“That might sound like a trivial issue, and stations often have much in the way of a retail offer, but if, for one reason or another, people are held up on the way to the station, whether because of traffic or a last-minute delay on the tube, and they run out of time to get something to eat or drink, in the case of SWR on that route they are stuffed. On-board wi-fi or the ability to receive a decent mobile phone signal suitable for modern working methods is often lacking, as my colleague Ruth experiences on her journeys between Northumberland and London. To some, these may sound like minor inconveniences and mere whingeing trifles.”
“Elsewhere, provision for pushchairs and bicycles is often patchy, and sometimes in competition. Space for such items is not necessarily at the cost of seats, as it often stated. I have been on trains where carriage of additional bicycles was refused due to lack of flexible storage space, despite half the seats on the train being available. Much of the network remains inaccessible to people using wheelchairs, and they find booked assistance services inconsistent and less reliable than they should be. Toilet reliability can also cause frustration, discomfort and real distress for passengers. There are train journeys of over three hours in duration, for example the South Western Railway service between London and Exeter, that lack provision of any on-board refreshments.”
“CrossCountry is acquiring more trains, which will reduce crowding problems, but for many years it has been common for trains of just four or five carriages to run only once per hour between Reading, Oxford, Birmingham and beyond, including at peak times. My own experience of trying to board the 17:40 from Oxford to Manchester resembled the railway version of “The Hunger Games”. Punctuality and getting a seat are core expectations, but rail passengers rightly expect more, particularly for longer-distance journeys. Intercity trains introduced this decade on the east coast main line, between London and Edinburgh, lack the dedicated vehicles of their InterCity 225 predecessors for surge luggage capacity, which is badly needed during the summer and the Edinburgh festival.”
“The issue she faced on such five-car trains was not the willingness of other passengers to give up their seat for her, but the fact that she could not even get beyond the vestibule area, next to the doors, into the main saloon of the train because it was often full of people who were having to stand. The commonness of five-car trains on the GWR network is partly a result of retiring older trains in the west country without immediate replacements, leading to the fleet needing to be more thinly spread, which is now gradually being rectified. Another example is CrossCountry, which still runs a timetable well below pre-pandemic levels half a decade on from those difficult times.”
“However, much overcrowding in recent years seems to have been the result of a conscious decision, made not by frequently demonised private train operating companies but by central Government tightly managing post-pandemic contracts with those train operators. There are, alas, examples from Oxfordshire, home to my Didcot and Wantage constituency. My wonderful parliamentary assistant, Hayleigh, is now on maternity leave, but for many months, she commuted while she was pregnant. Such was the frequency of five-car intercity trains operated by Great Western Railway, including on long-distance routes, such as those between Swansea and Cardiff to London, even at peak times, that she frequently opted to delay her journey to work by 90 minutes, until a more suitable nine-car train was shown on websites to be running.”
“With the exception of tickets with seat reservations, standard class tickets do not come with any guarantee of a seat, many trains lack the necessary space for storage of luggage and similar bulky items, and usability of wi-fi and mobile phone signal reception is highly variable. Perhaps the gravest issue is that of overcrowding on trains and its unpredictability. Overcrowding is sometimes understandable, and perhaps even forgivable, for example if there is extreme unforeseen disruption, for a major sporting event where efforts to increase service provision have not matched demand, or for short commuter hops at peak times.”
“Every train operating company has one, but this Bill would introduce greater consistency, cut the gap between good intentions and reality and, critically, create a charter with the teeth needed to truly put passenger experience and value for money first. All of this is not to deny that aspects of our railway have improved. The route I frequently take to travel to this place, between Didcot and London Paddington, has a far more generous off-peak train service than 30 years ago, with four fast trains per hour compared with one back then. Trains are more frequent on most routes across the country than they were, and online and digital ticketing brings convenience for many. However, problems remain.”
“I beg to move, That leave be given to bring in a Bill to establish a Rail Passengers’ Charter, setting out certain guarantees and targets in relation to the provision of passenger rail services; to make provision for penalties for failures to comply with the Charter; and for connected purposes. Our railway network is relied on by millions of people every day, both as passengers and as beneficiaries of rail freight. The Railways Bill currently making its way through Parliament will make the biggest change in over 30 years. It is therefore right that we seize this opportunity to bring our experience of using the railway into line with 21st-century expectations and challenges. Passenger charters are not new. I have further burnished my credentials as a dull dinner party guest by reading a few of them in recent days.”
“Certainly, the Welsh Government support track-train integration. I appreciate that I came at your question from a negative direction, but the Bill definitely advances us in terms of making the settlement more operable and efficient.”
“Q Mr McDonald, it is an interesting that the extent of rail devolution in Wales and Scotland is at rather different levels; perhaps I can put it that way. The Welsh Government have long called for greater devolution of rail policy. Does the Bill, and all that comes with it, give you hope for progressing that ambition? Peter McDonald: It certainly does not take us further away, if I can put it that way. In technical terms, I would say that the Bill is neutral for the devolution settlement. It does not adjust the fundamental constitutional arrangement in Wales, just as it does not change the fundamental constitutional arrangement of Scotland. I think the Bill makes the current settlement more operable and better; I will not comment on the Scottish case—I will leave that for Bill.”
“Lastly, it is a long-term rolling stock and infrastructure strategy, and if it comes through, that is a major step forward. There is no point in devising electric trains with pantographs and batteries if we do not have the infrastructure to support that, either in maintenance or passenger service. Those two combined are utterly critical, and it is certainly in the title. Rob Morris: May I add one comment to what Malcolm said? That old-system thinking with GBR opens up opportunities for the supply chain—ROSCOs and OEMs like ourselves. We can provide the optimum infrastructural rolling stock solution that also does the best in net zero outcomes for carbon, such as the battery bi-mode trains and discontinuous electrification of new technology that manufacturers like ourselves provide.”
“I think the clue is in the title; it is a rail system, and therefore a system has a number of components that we require to work as one. For example, I will invest £1 billion in new trains that we have made in Derby, and then those trains are getting maintained. These are state-of-the-art trains—they are absolutely brand new—but they are being maintained in sheds that were built in the Victorian era. That is not how I would like to look after my assets. I would like a holistic, full-system approach that takes these things into account. It cannot be perfect, but there is a lot more that we can do. The one word of caution I would give is this: be careful we don’t try to boil the ocean. We cannot have answers to everything, and nor should we expect the long-term rail strategy to have them.”
“That suggests that there will now be an opportunity for greater clarity of thinking, reduction in costs and much more efficient execution of the whole system. The important thing is that we have a review of the long-term strategy in regular periods to make it transparent—perhaps every five years, so that the supply chain can set itself up for the next five years. What has happened in the past is that, when there has been a change of approach, it has not been communicated and it has created a vacuum. When there is a vacuum, there is uncertainty and we will not invest in those sorts of things. Then, when we restart things such as an electrification programme, it costs significantly more than if you had a steady-state approach to it. Malcolm Brown: I agree that it has been sub-optimal.”
“Back in 2024, we called for a long-term strategy for rail, and we are positive that it is in the GBR plans, so we support the long-term strategy and reviews. I totally agree with these guys that we need to bring more than just ORR work into that pipeline and have a 30-year purview. However, there is quite a lot of work to do on it, and the Bill does not quite capture that yet, but it is a start. Rob Morris: From my perspective, I totally agree that it is currently sub-optimal. Decisions have been made in the past where things have been switched on and then switched off—electrification is a good example. With GBR, we now have a great opportunity to look at the whole system as a fully integrated system, so that we can manage the risks and the performance all together.”
“Darren Caplan: I think the question was about whether it is suboptimal at the moment. Yes, it is. We have a control period that lasts for five years and looks at operations, maintenance and renewal. That does not include enhancements. That was taken out in 2018, 2019, so enhancements have been reduced. It did not include major projects; we are very supportive of the announcements on East West Rail and Northern Powerhouse Rail, but that is not part of the overall plan. There is no rolling stock pipeline or strategy—we have called for that, but we are still waiting to hear back. There is nothing about decarbonising the network, or having an electrified network—when you have that, it is stop-start and boom-or-bust. This is an opportunity to get it together.”
“Q You have made some really good points about the complexity of rail and the criticality of the relationship between renewals, electrification, signalling and rolling stock, and all the interfaces and dependencies between them. At risk of putting words in your mouth—hopefully I am reflecting back what you said—would you agree that some of those interfaces and the decisions around them have been, historically, a bit suboptimal? In that context, do you think there is enough in the Bill that recognises that and gets us to a better future? In particular, should the Bill explicitly state that there is a need for a rolling stock strategy? I know the Department for Transport says that it is making one, but it is not specifically in there. Do you have any thoughts about how the Bill deals with all those issues?”
“At the minute the Bill does not acknowledge things like that, so I think there is something that needs to be looked at. Guidance accompanying what is in the legislation would probably give some clarity, and there is an opportunity to bring that through that process.”
“We are working very positively with officials to see how we can strengthen the Bill to ensure that it reflects that. We are on a journey of devolution where local government reform is making sure that mayors will be the conduit, broadly, across the UK. The Bill does set a framework for how that engagement will take place. From a technical point of view, I think what would be beneficial, which is not necessarily something you will cover in line-by-line scrutiny but which needs to be looked at in the guidance issued, is to look at how will this work in practice—your specific question—when you look at how railway under a national structure will work between different areas. When you look at areas like the West Midlands, for example, and the West Midlands Rail Executive, their geography is bigger than an MSA.”
“Q Mayors, you have made some really good points about the need for clearer accountability and for more responsiveness and understanding of what is going on in your areas. Mayor Burnham, I think your point about Everton is important, in that where there are strong mayoral areas quite close to each other, it is also important to have a regional cross-border overview. Does GBR do enough to strike the balance between strategic mayoral authorities’ having control in their areas and making sure that that is regionally joined up, maybe through subnational transport bodies? Do you think it does enough to provide that regional overview? Jason Prince: I think the Bill needs strengthening in the relationship between MSAs; I will put that on record.”
“On Trainline on your phone, the app was suggesting the trains were all running. I enquired and they said, “Well, that is a private company. They are not connected to us, so they don’t know.” People were coming to the station assuming that the trains were still running. We have to have that local accountability and the connected nature of the ebbs and flows of the network. If you build it, they will come. If we have more carriages—more than two on CrossCountry—you will get more passengers because people will enjoy the journey and feel it is value for money, rather than being rammed in like cattle. Standing at London Bridge station, you see Southern trains with 13 carriages. I dream about 13 carriages. We have trains that are two and three carriages that are absolutely rammed because we have such an uplift in footfall.”