Sarah Russell
MP for Congleton · Labour · United Kingdom
“In my area, the improvement on potholes is noticeable, and I thank the Government for the additional funding, which is being used for large patching work; no longer is there just shovelling into endless holes. I am concerned, however, about road safety in my constituency.”
“It is believed that they are retained within the site and do not enter the wider water system—I do not want to create alarm—but I want to ensure that this is being properly investigated for my local residents, so that either their minds can be put at rest or appropriate steps can be taken to remediate if necessary.”
“I absolutely call on the Minister to encourage the Environment Agency to take steps rapidly, because this is a significant, ongoing problem. The other area of concern in my constituency is a former landfill site, which is now a golf course. It was set up as a golf course by Cheshire East council.”
“Although the long-standing feeling among local people is that it may very well be an issue with the recycling plant, they would also like the Environment Agency to investigate nearby standing water and other possible sources.”
“Again, there has been extensive testing, and the set of facts is clearly disputed. What I am really concerned about, however, is that Cheshire East, when asked, apparently stated—I have not seen the documents myself—that remediating the whole site fully would cost more than £1 billion.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Dr Murrison. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Blackpool North and Fleetwood (Lorraine Beavers) for securing this timely debate. Two separate areas in my constituency are suffering difficulties. The first is West Heath in Congleton, where there is an awful fly problem.”
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“I know that the thoughts of the whole House are with the families, as are mine. One of the many aspects of what has gone wrong here relates to children’s mental health services. Will the Home Secretary please outline what we are doing about the workforce in children’s mental health services? There is a real shortage of people who are skilled in that area.”
“I very much welcome that news. Prosecution rates in cases involving violence against women and girls are shamefully low. I strongly welcome the Government’s ambition to tackle violence against women and girls, including our manifesto commitments to fast-track rape cases and introduce specialist courts. Will the Minister meet me to discuss the Government’s progress on those promises?”
“Since 2004, the limit on relief for small employers at which they can reclaim statutory maternity pay has been set at £45,000. Small and medium-sized enterprises want to support working parents, but they need our help to do so. Will the Minister confirm whether that will be looked at as part of the parental leave review?”
“In the magistrates court, only those who earn less than £21,000 a year—less than a full-time job at real living wage rates—are entitled to legal aid. Does my hon. Friend agree that there is real danger in that in terms of access to justice?”
“What does the right hon. Gentleman say about the freedom of women to walk the streets without fearing for their physical safety? What does he say about the freedom of women who have made allegations of rape, and who are waiting six years between reporting to the police and having a trial? Does he recognise that those are liberties that matter, too?”
“I respect the hon. Gentleman and understand that his concerns about the Bill are genuinely rooted. None the less, the presumption of parental involvement being revoked in this Bill is absolutely critical, and I do not understand how he can proceed with a reasoned amendment that would kill the entire Bill on that basis.”
“The Judicial Executive Board produced a report on judicial bullying and racism in 2022, but has never published it. Does my hon. Friend agree that that backs up her point that there are concerns about the judiciary?”
“On that point, there is a backlog in the family courts of 110,000 cases, more than what we are discussing, and legal aid rates for family law have not gone up since 1997. Does my hon. Friend agree that this is an important move but we need to do more?”
“Does my hon. Friend agree it is absolutely crucial that we fund contact centres properly, so that there are properly supervised options for courts to order?”
“I draw attention to the fact that I am a solicitor with a current practising certificate who has appeared before tribunals historically. I will speak briefly today about the £1.3 billion maintenance backlog in our courts. We have heard that the Justice Secretary will commit £287 million to it. That is a large sum of money, but it is not enough. I want to talk about the fact that legal aid rates have not gone up since 1997. The Justice Secretary is looking at increasing them significantly, but unfortunately that is moving them from £40 an hour to £60 an hour. In private practice, most solicitors would expect to be billing about five times that to run their firms. It is just not enough.”
“She talks about the fact that: “A recurrent theme in the submissions was that there is a tolerance of misconduct at the Bar which is learned and passed down from generation to generation. I was told that some barristers, particularly men of the older generation, ‘have no idea how outdated and offensive some of their views are, nor do they care about the impact of sharing those views with others who may be offended by them’.””
“I am afraid I will not. When we look at how much these measures will bring down the backlog in totality, it is simply not enough. When the time from reporting a rape to an actual trial is, on average, six years, bringing down the backlog slightly by the end of the next Parliament is just not enough. I have significant concerns about the restrictions on access to jury trials. Anyone who has read Baroness Harman’s independent review of bullying, harassment and sexual harassment at the Bar should have real concerns about the attitudes of some barristers towards women and ethnic minorities. Not every barrister exhibits those traits, but they are a systematic problem.”
“I stand here as someone who does not like to criticise the judiciary. I know that it has many hard-working members who have been operating in a difficult environment for a very long time. We have to be honest in saying that most of the rates that I have referred to were not put up by the new Labour Government either. We have had cuts to the justice system for 25 years, and that is why it is on its knees. We can do things within the context of the current system that might make it somewhat better, but I go back to my original question: when rape trials are taking six years from arrest to prosecution, what are we going to do to make wholesale change? Nothing I have heard so far has convinced me that what we will do here today, whichever permutations we go with, will fundamentally transform those waits.”
“Obviously not everyone is exhibiting these traits and training can help, but my understanding, from what I have heard anecdotally, is that substantial numbers of members of the judiciary are not up to date with the training requirements that they already have. I would welcome hearing more from the Secretary of State about exactly how those training programmes will be developed, brought forward and made mandatory in a way that is effective. It is of significant concern that Baroness Harman had to make a recommendation on the importance of the Judicial Appointments Commission taking into account findings of misconduct when considering who to appoint as judges. It is astonishing that she had to recommend that that should be required. How has the Judicial Appointments Commission been operating to date?”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. We have seen in recent days that Iran is bombing data centres across the middle east, and we are well aware that there have been problems with cyber-attacks by non-state and state-backed actors from Iran. Can the Minister please outline what the Government and the National Cyber Security Centre are doing to deal with the increased threat?”
“Young people quite rightly aspire to own homes, start families and have the same sort of life and pension savings that the generations before them had, and I do not see how that is unreasonable. Yet we are allowing a system to persist in which many of them are paying 9% of their income, on top of the tax they already pay, spiralling house prices and the incredibly high requirements for childcare, if they wish to have a family. Of course, Labour has rightly helped with many of those problems, but the student loans system remains a barrier to opportunity. We should have great aspirations for our young people. Education is a right, and should not be a privilege, but those privileged enough to have parents who can pay for their fees up front have a massive benefit over everyone else. That is wrong and it needs to change.”
“I am pleased to see you in the Chair, Ms Lewell. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Ilford South (Jas Athwal) for securing this debate. The system just is not fair; it does not make any sense and it does not set people up well for life. Realistically, a person makes a decision about whether to go to university when they are about 16 or 17 years old. We would not let banks lend money to 16 and 17-year-olds on these terms—we would think it wrong; people cannot enter into those contracts until they are 18—but when someone makes the decision to apply to university, unless they are from a very wealthy background, they are essentially signing up to a huge amount of ongoing debt.”
“The hon. Gentleman has referred to plan 2 loans but plan 3 loans were also brought in by his Government. Plan 3 loans are for those with postgraduate qualifications—people who are definitely making an economic contribution to our society—and now kick in from when they earn £21,000. Does he agree that that was the wrong thing for his Government to do?”
“The Minister has spoken very well about plan 2, and we are grateful that he will be looking at it, but so far as I can tell, plan 3 thresholds have remained frozen for postgrads at £21,000 since their inception. That is deeply unjust. Will he commit to looking at plan 3 as well as plan 2?”
“In terms of the points raised about funding, Cheshire is struggling significantly with underfunding per pupil. Will how we roll out funding for these changes follow the existing formula, or will that be revised?”
“On a point of order, Mr Stringer. I am not sure whether this strictly meets the criteria for a point of order, but it is clear that some people in the room cannot hear what is happening. I know the convention is that only the Whips and Ministers sit on the front row, but if those who are struggling to hear wish to sit closer, could we abandon that convention? It would be a reasonable adjustment so that everyone can participate properly, because this is discriminatory.”
“That is corroborated by evidence, even in the impact assessment that has been done on the previous regulatory regime, where I think nearly half of the operators of essential services said that they do not have access to skills in-house to support the regulatory requirements. Continuing to have sustained investment in skills development is definitely going to require funding. Taking it a step back, we need first of all to understand what sort of skills and expertise we have to develop to ensure that implementation of the Bill is successful.”
“Generally speaking, yes, I think it will be costly, but there are things that could probably help smaller organisations: techUK has called for things such as financial incentives, or potentially tax credits, to help SMEs. That could be applied on a priority basis, with those working within the critical national infrastructure supply chain looked at first. Dr Sanjana Mehta: If I may expand on that, we have been consulting our members and the wider community, and 58% of our respondents in the UK say that they still have critical and significant skills needs in their organisations. Nearly half of the respondents—47%—say that skills shortages are going to be one of the greatest hurdles in regulatory compliance.”
“Q Obviously no one wants to put crippling costs on to businesses, but cyber-security costs money—there is no way of avoiding that. We only have to look at the JLR attack to see the scale of the impact on our economy when it does not work, and we are looking at only critical national infrastructure here. Have you had any information from business about whether and to what extent this will promote increased spending on cyber-security? Jill Broom: We can assume that it will, because if you are in the supply chain or come within scope, you will have certain responsibilities and you will have to invest, not just in technology but in the skills space as well. How easy it is to do that is probably overestimated a bit; it is quite difficult to find the right skilled people, and that applies across regulators as well as business.”
“Ian Hulme: From an ICO perspective, one of the big tasks that we are going to have in understanding the MSP market is what their supply chains look like. We are perhaps a little behind colleagues in other regulators because of the difference in the regulatory regime, but that is one of the tasks that we will have to get to grips with.”
“Natalie Black: To keep it brief, we welcome the supply chain being brought into scope because we are all well aware that the most high-profile recent incidents often emanated from the supply chain. That said, we should be very honest about the complexity of entering this space, exactly for all the points that you have alluded to in terms of volume and scale and everything. We are already using this time to work through what our methodology will be. Engaging with the operators of essential services who are ultimately the customer of these suppliers has to be a starting point in terms of who they are most worried about in their supply chain. As Stuart says, you will see some commonality across all our sectors, so the numbers might not be as big as we might at first think, but this is what we need to work through over the coming months.”
“On the critical third party suppliers that have been brought in by the Bill, there will be a small number of those that, for energy, are for the entire systemic system of the UK, not the smaller entities. So we will hold those to account. On the enforcement side of things, if and when it comes to that, they will be in the same situation as the current operators of essential services are today. We welcome the simplification in the Bill and bringing those into the same sectorial powers and the same types of fines that we see today. It will not go down to those minutiae of detail. Again, the secondary legislation gives you the ability to define that.”
“Q One of the things talked about this morning was that the risk in these relationships and sectors will simply be managed down the supply chain until it is essentially contracted out of existence, because the smallest organisations that end up holding the risk will be incapable of effectively managing it. Should they fail, because they have not failed the risk and their liabilities become so big, they will just collapse. It will not be possible for you guys to manage the entirety of the supply chain down, so how do you see your enforcement capabilities and the adequacy or otherwise of the legislation in that context? Stuart Okin: Essentially, we would not go all the way down the supply chain. First, the operators of essential services are defined very much by the thresholds. Ultimately, they are the first point of responsibility.”
“No industry can effectively be told on the one hand, “What you are doing is vital,” but on the other, “It is a criminal offence, and we would like you to document it and report it to us in an itemised fashion over a period of time.” It is just not a realistic relationship to engender. The cyber-security industry has evolved in a fragmented way both nationally and internationally, and the only way to get those professionalisation and cyber-resilience pay-offs is by recognising that the criminal law is a barrier—not because it is prosecuting or sentencing, but because of its very existence. It does not allow individuals to say, “If, heaven forbid, I were prosecuted, I can explain that what I was doing was nationally important. That is the basis on which I should not be convicted, not because of the good will of a prosecutor.””
“The current problem is purely the original point of criminalisation. Think of an industry carrying out potentially criminalised activity. Even if no one is going to be prosecuted, the chilling effect is that either the work is not done or it is done under the veil of potential criminalisation, which leads to pretty obvious problems in terms of insurance for that kind of industry, the professionalisation of the industry and making sure that reporting mechanisms are accurate. We have sat through many meetings with the CPS and those within the cyber-security industry who say that the channels of communication—that back and forth of reporting—is vital. However, a necessary step before that communication can happen is the decriminalisation of basic practices.”
“Q Professor Child, I note that you are very supportive of legal reform in quite a number of areas. With emphasis on the Computer Misuse Act, surely the reality is that the Crown Prosecution Service will never conclude that it is in the best interests of the country to prosecute any of the behaviours that people are concerned about, which we recognise as positive and helpful. Is there a need for legal reform? Professor John Child: Yes. It is not the easiest criminal law tale, if you like. If there were a problem of overcriminalisation in the sense of prosecutions, penalisation, high sentences and so on, the solution would be to look at a whole range of options, including prosecutorial discretion, sentencing or whatever it might be, to try to solve that problem. That is not the problem under the status quo.”
“I thank the Minister for his statement, which demonstrates how Labour stands up for people against vested interests—my constituents will thank him for it. On the ongoing problems with unadopted estates, which I have been raising with him since before my election, I would be extremely grateful if he agreed to visit my constituency to see the difficulties that homeowners face.”
“I have similar stories of incredibly long waiting lists, my local ICB closing waiting lists and my constituents’ general difficulty in accessing support. Does my hon. Friend agree that the Government have already had a two-part report with recommendations on dealing with ADHD, and that there is plenty in there that could be implemented while further evidence is sought?”
“The Children’s Commissioner spoke to a group of 15 and 16-year-olds in 2024 and found that three quarters of them had been sent a beheading video. It is possible that a great number of children are protecting us from what they see online, instead of us protecting them. Can I emphasise strongly the importance of speaking to a large range of children from different backgrounds about this? Sadly, they do not always feel able to make us aware of everything that they are exposed to online.”
“I support the hon. Gentleman’s point about the importance of equestrian representation in these structures. In my constituency, there is a major equestrian centre at Somerford. We also have many horse riders throughout the area, and there have been multiple accidents. We really need to take action on this issue, and I know that the Minister will be listening carefully.”
“Northern Powerhouse Rail will be great for economic growth across the north and that will very much benefit my constituency. My constituency is geographically located in such a way that it should be great for travel to London, Liverpool and Manchester. Sadly, at the moment it is usually terrible for travelling to any of them. Will the Minister please meet me to talk about accessibility at Sandbach station, the quality and regularity of services across all those areas, and how we can make Northern Powerhouse Rail deliver for Cheshire?”
“The overwhelming majority of child sexual abuse imagery produced online is still, very sadly, produced by children themselves, who have been groomed by adults in order to do so. What steps will the Government take to ensure that there are device-level protections to prevent children from taking and sharing nude images of themselves?”
“In my constituency, 19 people died on the roads between 2018 and 2024. It is usually assumed that that is because we have some motorway in the constituency, but in fact people are six times more likely to die on a rural road. I thank the Minister very much for the measures within the strategy. I know there will be those who push back against changes to drink-driving limits, so does she agree that when people talk about personal responsibility in respect of driving, they fail to understand the depth of damage that is caused—both to families and to the wider community—when there are so many deaths of young people in my constituency?”
“It is about securing our nation and ensuring that our economy is on a strong footing. There is everything to be said in favour of that.”
“It is great that we are maintaining our EU alignment, because realistically the only way that we can continue to be a major player and have considerable influence over companies, many of which now have much larger budgets than major economies, is if we work in conjunction with other countries. That is what our ongoing relationship with the EU should be about. I thank everyone who has been involved with work on the Bill. I think it is excellent, and it is completely the right direction of travel. It is a shame that the Government doing the right thing every day does not get more publicity, even when it is not likely to grab many headlines. It is about doing the work, getting the right structures in place and moving forward productively in a cross-party way where possible.”
“I would like to add to the comments of those who have suggested that we should review the Computer Misuse Act 1990 and the lack of current protections for researchers doing important work in this area. We obviously have several institutions that are currently engaged in cyber-security work, including the Alan Turing Institute and the National Cyber Security Centre. We need to make sure that they have the right remit, because this area is only going to expand when the complexities of AI are added. We must ensure that everyone is protected to do their job effectively. That means protecting individuals, businesses and our wider society. Lastly, we need to move as quickly as we can on this.”
“The Cheshire Cyber Security Programme is in place to help local small businesses manage their cyber-risk. It provides training for up to five members of staff in small businesses. Our local police powers are being used to try to take proactive steps to improve the situation for our local small businesses. Schools in academy trusts are spending quite a lot of money on cyber-insurance to try to protect against these risks. We have seen schools across the country shut down because they are unable to open following cyber-attacks. The public sector action plan that the Government published this morning is incredibly welcome in terms of cyber-risk, and I really look forward to the opportunity to go through it in more detail. We again need to look at the balance of cost within our society.”
“There are good enforcement mechanisms in the Bill, and there is plenty of money that could potentially be at risk, which incentivises the kind of compliance that we want to see, but we need to look at the broader societal piece about how we balance the risks and opportunities in relation to tech in general. I was going to talk quite a bit about my concerns about my local public services and how they can better manage cyber-security. The Legal Aid Agency cyber-attack enabled criminals to steal the details of anyone who had applied for legal aid between 2007 and 2025. The scale of the financial risks to those individuals cannot be overstated; the amount of personal data that that involved was absolutely huge. Six out of 10 secondary schools are now subject to cyber-attacks.”
“It is about how we ensure that in our country we do not have large tech companies, major data centres and other big private sector businesses taking economic benefits without carrying risk. We need those businesses and they are crucial to us, but we do not want them taking the economic benefits of operating in our advanced economy while the Government and therefore the taxpayer carry all the risk and burden of the regulation. It is great to see that the Bill contains provisions allowing for financial recovery in the enforcement action that we want to take. It is also fantastic that when it comes to the enforcement provisions and finances associated with it, we are looking at up to 4% of global turnover in terms of potential fines for not complying. My position as a former lawyer is always that I want to know that things are enforceable.”
“If we do not ensure that people have mechanisms by which they can anonymously report breaches of those sorts of obligations, and if we do not have the right protections for them when they are raising the concerns internally in the first place, we will not be able to make adequate use of the Bill’s excellent provisions. I want to impress upon the Minister how important it is that this legislation is looked at in that wider context. Also within the wider context is a broader debate—lots of us have touched on this without specifically identifying it—about how we balance the risk across society and the cost of the risk. It is about the risk to individuals, national security, individual businesses and individuals within those businesses, such as directors or other senior leaders.”
“I particularly want to discuss the enhanced incident reporting duties on the digital service providers and the duties to inform customers. In short, I have real concerns about how those duties will play out in practice. From my experience of having advised whistleblowers in the financial sector, when there are obligations of this nature, some corporations unfortunately make more effort to avoid complying with them than to comply with them. It is an excellent piece of legislation, and I am not suggesting that the Government should have drafted it in any other way, but we need to look at our whistleblowing laws alongside it, because at the moment we do not have strong enough protections for whistleblowers within UK law. That applies both inside and outside employment settings—for example in relation to contractors and other third parties.”
“Happy new year to you, Madam Deputy Speaker, your team and everyone else in the House. It is no overstatement to say that this is one of the most pressing issues of our time. I suspect that if we were not bringing forward this legislation it would only become apparent quite how pressing it had been when there was a major incident that lay it bare. I think it is one of the marks of successful government that we are, hopefully—I touch wood as I say this—managing to stay ahead of the curve on these incidents. There is nothing more important than national security relating to critical infrastructure. I think it is exactly what our constituents want to see us acting on, and I wish they saw more of us discussing issues on a cross-party basis, with broad agreement. It is welcome to see the Government taking these steps.”
“I thank my hon. Friend for bringing forward this welcome strategy, to which I know she is personally committed. There is a long-term ambition in the strategy to reduce the number of days of school missed by children in temporary accommodation, but is there a specific target for that? On data transparency for children from more deprived backgrounds, will she set out in more detail how that will be achieved and in particular whether there is an ambition to have wider tracking of outcomes for these children—not just the number of school days lost but how many times they return to temporary accommodation in the course of their childhood?”
“I would like to get into how I am worried about that and deal with health and how we do not have good enough training data on the interaction between gender and health and various other matters, but I will stop now. I thank everyone for their time today. I know colleagues will pick up important points.”
“LinkedIn appears to think we are not interesting and people will not want to read our content, so it is stopping showing female content at the same rate, it would appear. I caveat that I have not been able to speak to LinkedIn directly, but certainly a lot of women I know are reporting these problems. We put in bio stuff to start with, but huge amounts of the image training data is based on what is publicly available on the internet, and that image training data of women on the internet is largely pornographic, which influences what comes out the other end of these models. When we look at that in terms of children, we have real problems. Nudification apps are huge and need to be dealt with.”