Lucy Rigby
MP for Northampton North · Labour · United Kingdom
“Border communities rely on strong transport links, and my hon. Friend is a strong advocate for the interests of his constituency and those in the surrounding area. The Government are delivering for people in all parts of the UK, including investments that will benefit those on both sides of the English-Welsh border.”
“Nothing was snuck out. A third runway at Heathrow means more than 60,000 good local jobs, and more than £40 billion for the British economy. The hon. Lady’s question rather highlights the Lib Dems’ curious approach to growth.”
“My right hon. Friend the Member for Makerfield (Andy Burnham) will speak for himself, but I am confident that his view is that growth extends far beyond the area that the hon. Gentleman referred to.”
“Effective transport links are vital to the prosperity and wellbeing of people across the country, including in our border communities. We have been working closely with the Welsh Government to deliver a plan for Welsh rail, and we continue to work with devolved Governments to ensure that border communities stay connected.”
“We have been clear that Heathrow expansion needs to benefit everyone, not just London. The Department for Transport has shown that expansion would deliver UK-wide support for trade, with 40% of the estimated GDP benefits from expansion being outside London and the south-east.”
“The Pride in Place programme provides £5.8 billion of support to 284 neighbourhoods right across the country, including five places in my hon. Friend’s constituency, which she does so much to advocate for. We will set out more details of further funding in the Budget.”
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“We take all impacts on the hospitality sector and the pub sector extremely seriously, and this Government are proud to be backing British pubs across the piece. The changes we are making will help to ensure that, as a country, we live within our means, that we balance the books and that we properly fund the public services we all rely on. On Second Reading, concerns were raised about the impact of alcohol duty on the hospitality sector and British pubs. We have made it clear, as I just have, that we are steadfast supporters of British pubs and the wider hospitality sector, including through the introduction of the new pro-growth licensing policy framework that was announced at the Budget.”
“I was talking about our new pro-growth licensing policy framework, which was announced in the Budget. If the hon. Member is referring specifically to business rates, as I think he might be, we have made it clear that we are continuing to talk to the sector about any support beyond the existing £4.3 billion support package that the Chancellor announced in the Budget.”
“The Government’s decision to uprate alcohol duty in line with inflation is therefore not only prudent for the public finances; it also balances important considerations, and the contribution of alcohol producers, pubs and the wider hospitality sector, with the need to support public services such as the NHS.”
“I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that invitation. It is one that I will be taking up, as I would love to join her in that public house in her constituency. Importantly, continuing to freeze alcohol duty would primarily support cheaper alcohol in the off-trade—for instance, alcohol sold in shops and supermarkets—and have only a small indirect impact on the hospitality sector. That is because, as hon. Members will know, alcohol duty is paid by producers, not by pubs, and 73% of alcohol consumed in the UK is purchased from shops, rather than in pubs, restaurants and bars.”
“I am grateful to the hon. Member, as always, for his intervention. I was about to talk about the strength-based duty system introduced by the previous Government on 1 August 2023, following the alcohol duty review. The new alcohol duty system taxes all alcoholic products according to their strength, so duty increases with alcohol content, which represents a progressive shift. The reforms introduced two new reliefs: the draught relief, which reduced the duty burden on draught products sold at on-trade venues; and small producer relief, which replaced the previous small brewers relief and aims to support small and medium-sized enterprises and new entrants.”
“My point was that the benefit of the decision not to update alcohol duty will be felt mostly in the off-trade, which is a point that the hon. Gentleman appears to understand. The small producer relief aims to support SMEs and new entrants by permitting smaller producers to pay reduced duty rates. Clause 86 maintains the generosity of the small producer relief, compared with main duty rates. The changes introduced by the clause maintain the real-terms value of alcohol duty, and balance the need to support alcohol producers, pubs and the wider hospitality sector with the need to support the public finances. Further to that, the changes also support smaller producers by maintaining the generosity of small producer relief. I therefore commend the clause to the Committee.”
“I am grateful to all Members for their contributions to today’s debate. Almost all of them have spoken passionately about their local pubs. I specifically acknowledge the contribution of the hon. Member for Angus and Perthshire Glens (Dave Doogan), just to deny him the pleasure of my not doing so. We are taking a prudent and responsible decision to uprate alcohol duty in line with RPI. That is fully assumed in the OBR’s baseline forecast, so failing to uprate would come at a real cost.”
“I am going to make some progress. Based on HMRC’s ready reckoner, freezing alcohol duty would cost the Exchequer around £400 million a year. That money, despite the Opposition’s best efforts to pretend otherwise, would have to be found elsewhere. This is one of the measures that assists in ensuring that our economy is strengthened and our future prosperity more secure. Indeed, it does that without taking the axe to public services or to investment. Those policies from the Conservatives had catastrophic consequences for all our constituents.”
“I am going to make a bit more progress. New clauses 8, 9 and 26 would require the Government to publish reports on the impacts of alcohol duty. The shadow Exchequer Secretary, the hon. Member for North West Norfolk (James Wild), invited me to refer to our tax information and impact note, and I will take him up on that invitation. As is usual practice, our note was published at the Budget. It outlined the anticipated impacts of this measure for alcohol producers and the hospitality sector. Because this uprating maintains the current real-terms value of the duty, the Government do not expect it to have significant macroeconomic impacts, including to the employment rate or hospitality businesses’ costs, where a duty on drinks will have comparable relative bearing as now.”
“I will make some progress. On the impacts on the public finances, HMRC publishes data on alcohol duty receipts quarterly. That data is reviewed alongside other evidence by the OBR when it produces its forecasts of alcohol duty receipts, as it did most recently alongside the November Budget. The Government’s view, as is evident from OBR-certified policy costings in recent years, remains that freezing or cutting alcohol duty rates reduces duty receipts. The hon. Member for Angus and Perthshire Glens raised the importance of producers of Scottish whisky, and I agree with him about that. This Government are supporting key Scottish industries, including whisky, such as through our free trade agreement with India, which will boost exports of whisky and add £190 million a year to the Scottish economy.”
“As I have said, today we have heard some heartfelt references to particular pubs and the role that they have played in each of our lives. I could tell my own stories in that regard, but none of us would get home in time. As Members know, in the Budget the Chancellor introduced a £4.3 billion support package to give relief to those seeing increases in their business rates bills. As I said earlier, we have made it clear that we are continuing to work with and talk to the sector about that support, and about what further support we can provide and what action we can take.”
“No, I will make some progress. The hon. Member for Keighley and Ilkley (Robbie Moore)—he represents a wonderful place in the world, which is where I was between Christmas and new year—referred to the difference between CPI and RPI. As he knows, we are uprating alcohol duty by RPI, as with many other taxes expressed in cash terms. He will know that RPI is widely used, and moving away from it is fraught with difficulty. I want to address the important points about business rates and employer national insurance contributions. We have discussed this already and, as Members will know, the Bill does not contain measures on either of those subjects, so I will not accept an amendment relating to them. I reiterate, however, that pubs are at the heart of our communities and we want them to thrive.”
“I want to make this point. The Liberal Democrat spokesperson, the hon. Member for St Albans (Daisy Cooper), asked several questions. We will come forward with a support package—any further support that we will make available—when we are able to do so. As for her point about VAT, I know that an answer has been given to the parliamentary question asked by one of her colleagues about exactly that point, but I gently say to her—as, indeed, I have said to other Members during the debate—that if we want to cut taxes, the money has to come from somewhere. That has not been acknowledged at all. I therefore propose that new clauses 8, 9 and 26 should be rejected and that clause 86 should stand part of the Bill. Question put, That the clause stand part of the Bill.”
“Members who have contributed to the debate have done the same. Put simply, the Bill delivers the fair, responsible and necessary choices required to strengthen our economy and cut borrowing, to return our public services to health, to back British entrepreneurs and to make people better off. Those are the choices that this Government are making.”
“The shadow Financial Secretary, the hon. Member for Grantham and Bourne (Gareth Davies), took the time to mention Father Christmas and Tinder. I thought he might also have taken a moment to welcome the fourth major trade deal secured by this Government and signed today with South Korea, which is set to boost our economy by £400 million, but that was obviously too much to ask. It is an honour to close this Second Reading debate on the Finance (No. 2) Bill. I thank the Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury for opening the debate, and all right hon. and hon. Members who made contributions. I look forward to hearing further contributions during the rest of the Bill’s passage. Before I turn to the points made during today’s debate, let me be clear about the purpose of the Bill. I will frame it in the context of choices, because so many hon.”
“Not yet. We have heard absolutely nothing from the Opposition that acknowledges that they made the wrong choices. Indeed, what we heard just now from the shadow Financial Secretary and earlier from the shadow Chancellor was a masterclass in selective amnesia. People would be forgiven for thinking that Members on the shadow Treasury Bench were not living in this country during their period of Government, let alone running it. They have conveniently forgotten that their choices gave us appallingly low productivity, threadbare public services, ballooning welfare spending and real wage stagnation. Those were their choices, and it is little wonder that they do not to want to remember them, let alone be judged on them.”
“I will make a bit of progress. Our choices are different: they seek to rebuild and repair our country and our economy. They are choices to renew our public services and reform our welfare system; we are rebuilding our NHS, helping to lift hundreds of thousands of children out of poverty, and investing in getting more people into work. They are choices to strengthen our economy; we are maintaining the highest level of public investment for 40 years, backing British aspiration and, importantly, cutting borrowing and doubling the headroom against our fiscal rules.”
“I am afraid to tell the right hon. Gentleman that employment is rising in every single year of the forecast. My hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow East (John Grady) raised the importance of getting debt and borrowing down. I could not agree more. There is nothing progressive whatsoever about spending over £100 billion a year on servicing our debt. That is more than five times our annual policing budget. It is money that could be spent on schools, hospitals and the urgent public service renewal that this country so desperately needs. That is exactly why, under this autumn Budget, borrowing falls in every year of the forecast, and we are bringing the national debt under control. The Chancellor is putting in place the fastest rate of fiscal consolidation in the G7, and she is doubling the headroom to £21.7 billion.”
“That is why this Bill significantly expands the enterprise management incentive scheme limits to maintain the world-leading nature of this relief.”
“It is not a concession to acknowledge that that was the topic of much of the debate. We are more than aware of the strength of feeling on inheritance tax and the cost pressures that farmers are under, and I appreciate the compassion with which hon. Members have made their arguments. I remind them that that is why the Government came forward with the changes announced at the Budget just a few weeks ago. Following those changes to both APR and BPR, surviving spouses can pass on double the tax-free allowance, making the system more fair and simple for farmers. A core part of strengthening our economy is about backing British businesses to reach their full potential. That means backing British innovation and aspiration and giving entrepreneurs what they need to start up, scale up, list and grow here in the UK.”
“That is why this Bill ensures that companies that list here in the UK will benefit from a stamp duty holiday on their shares for the first three years on the market—a point well made by my hon. Friend the Member for Burnley (Oliver Ryan). We are backing British entrepreneurs and ensuring that the UK remains one of the most attractive places in the world to found, scale and list a business. Let me address the point referred to by the hon. and learned Member for North Antrim (Jim Allister) about the application of the measures that I have just spoken about to Northern Ireland. I can assure him that Northern Irish service companies will benefit from the expansion of the scheme, and goods and wholesale electricity companies in Northern Ireland will continue to benefit from the previous scheme limits.”
“The Scottish Government have been given a record settlement—a £820 million boost in this Budget—that takes the total additional funding for the Scottish Government from this Labour Government to more than £10 billion. I was talking about the entrepreneurship package in the Budget. As my hon. Friend the Member for Buckingham and Bletchley (Callum Anderson) said, we are doubling the maximum amount that a company can raise through the generous enterprise investment and venture capital trust schemes. We are making them more generous, and are supporting more investment in companies that are making the transition from start-up to scale-up, and we are not stopping there. When some of our most innovative, high-growth companies succeed, bringing jobs and growth to our economy, we want them to list here, too.”
“Every measure in this Bill is geared towards that goal. We promised change and fairness, and we are delivering both. For those reasons, I commend this Bill to the House. Question put, That the amendment be made.”
“They are why she is able to invest an extra £300 million in NHS technology, roll out 250 new neighbourhood health centres right across this country, and continue to get waiting lists—which stood at a record high when this Government came to power—back under control. That means millions more people able to access the healthcare they need, free at the point of use; millions more people getting the operations, preventive care and scans they need. It is how we will be able to repair our NHS and ensure it will continue to exist for the next generation and for many generations to come. This Finance Bill is about delivering on our commitments. It is about building a stronger economy in which prosperity and living standards rise, child poverty falls, businesses succeed and public services are renewed.”
“This is a Government who are committed to helping people with the cost of living, to putting more money in people’s pockets, and the choices we are making in this Bill do just that. My hon. Friends the Members for Scarborough and Whitby (Alison Hume) and for Wolverhampton North East (Mrs Brackenridge) are absolutely right that the choices this Government are making in this Finance Bill will help restore our public services. Those choices are why the Chancellor is able to put libraries in primary schools, as my hon. Friend the Member for Scarborough and Whitby referred to, and they are why she is able to protect NHS budgets as well.”
“Real household disposable income was £800 higher in the first year of this Parliament than in the last year under the Tories, but we know that there is more to do.It is because of the fair and necessary choices in this Bill that we are able to help ease the cost of living for millions of families across this country. Those choices are how we are cutting energy bills for millions of households by an average of £150 per year and extending the warm homes plan. They are how we are lifting the two-child cap and, with it, lifting half a million children in this country out of poverty. They are how we are freezing prescription charges and rail fares, and increasing the national living wage while protecting the triple lock on pensions.”
“I assure the hon. and learned Member, who makes a valid point, that there are hardly any—very few, if any—of these types of goods and wholesale electricity companies in Northern Ireland that come close to the existing limits of the scheme, let alone the extended limits. We are very clear about the role of business and economic growth in improving household incomes, but we are also clear that after the Opposition gave this country the worst Parliament on record for living standards, far too many people are still struggling with the cost of living. This Government are already making progress to tackle that. Wages have gone up more in the first year of this Government than in the entire first decade of the last Government.”
“We published the financial inclusion strategy last month, outlining ambitious measures that will improve financial inclusion right across the country. I am very grateful to my hon. Friend for her advocacy on this issue through the all-party parliamentary group on debt and financial inclusion. In line with the priorities outlined by the APPG, the strategy champions inclusive design to make products more accessible, increases debt advice capacity and supports financial independence for survivors of economic abuse.”
“As my hon. Friend knows, I have been very sorry to hear of the difficulties of those affected by the withdrawal of that product. I pay tribute to her for all her efforts and those of her colleagues. They are doing everything possible to assist constituents. My officials are monitoring the matter very closely. We encourage anyone with information relevant to the Financial Conduct Authority’s investigation to go straight to the FCA. However, I would be more than happy to do as she suggests and get the stakeholders together.”
“I thank the hon. Member for his question. We very much understand the importance of in-person banking, including in beautiful, rural communities such as those that he represents. That is exactly why we are committed to rolling out 350 banking hubs right across the UK by the end of this Parliament. Over 240 hubs have been announced so far and more than 190 are already open.”
“The shadow Minister makes reference to a number of changes in the Budget that were pragmatic, responsible and fair. I contrast that with the Conservatives’ approach, which would return us to austerity. That would be both irresponsible and unfair.”
“The recent Budget backed British innovation and aspiration by supporting businesses to start, scale and list in the UK. We have put in place a three-year listing tax relief for firms that list here, and we are expanding enterprise tax reliefs to incentivise investment in scaling firms. That means more jobs, more growth, and more British companies competing globally.”
“At the Budget, we introduced the UK listing relief, which incentivises companies to list in the UK. The UK raised more equity capital in 2024 than was raised in the next three European exchanges combined. I look forward to seeing the brilliant entrepreneurs in my hon. Friend’s constituency benefit from these deep pools of capital.”
“As someone who enjoys both rugby and gin, sometimes at the same time, I pay tribute to my hon. Friend’s support for the businesses in his constituency. To support spirits producers, the Government have put in place a range of measures. As for small producer relief, I know that the Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury is open to evidence on the operation of the new system. I should add that the Government plan to evaluate the reforms in late 2026, which will be three years after they took effect.”
“As has been covered by my colleagues, we are putting in a £4 billion support package and continuing to engage with the hospitality sector. I should also add that we are easing licensing to help venues offer pavement drinks and one-off events too.”
“I am grateful to the right hon. Member for his question, as I always am. We are doing an awful lot to support R&D in this country, including through many of the measures announced at the Budget. That includes putting an additional £7 billion into specific areas within the industrial strategy.”
“The Government of course recognise that innovation is key to our long-term economic growth and to higher productivity, and indeed to living standards. That is exactly why we are investing more in R&D, and we have made other incentives available too.”
“I am afraid that I must disagree with the hon. Lady when she says that 350 is a meaningless number, but of course we understand the importance of in-person banking for rural communities. The location of banking hubs is determined independently by Link, and the criteria are a matter for the FCA, but I regularly meet MPs to discuss the adequacy and the application of those rules. In fact, there will be a banking hub surgery for Members of Parliament tomorrow, and she is more than welcome to join it.”
“I beg to move, That the Committee has considered the draft Financial Services and Markets Act 2023 (Prudential Regulation of Credit Institutions) (Consequential Amendments) Regulations 2025.”
“ESG ratings are widely relied on by investors to guide investment decisions in line with sustainability risks, opportunities and preferences. Of the £10 trillion-worth of assets under management in the UK in 2024, half had integrated ESG factors into the investment process. In the UK in 2024, more than 5,400 firms were using ESG ratings. However, the ESG ratings market has developed rapidly and without formal oversight. This has led stakeholders and users to raise concerns about transparency, governance, internal controls and potential conflicts of interest within ESG ratings providers. Identifying these concerns, the International Organisation of Securities Commissions published recommendations for ESG ratings and data providers, calling for higher standards and sufficient oversight in the sector.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Harris. I turn first to the environmental, social and governance ratings order, which I note the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee flagged as an instrument of interest in its 41st report. The draft order will bring the provision of ESG ratings within the regulatory perimeter of the Financial Conduct Authority. Regulation will improve standards in the market, boost investor confidence and reduce greenwashing, and it has strong support across the financial sector. As hon. Members will be aware, ESG ratings are a spectrum of products usually marketed as providing an assessment of the ESG profile, characteristics, risk exposures or impacts associated with a company, fund or other financial instrument.”
“In summary, although these draft regulations are technical and do not introduce any new rules, they are nevertheless a necessary step in continuing the reform of our banking regulation to ensure that our regulatory framework remains coherent. I commend the regulations to the Committee.”
“That includes the CRR, which will be removed from the statute book and largely restated in the Prudential Regulation Authority’s rulebook, providing more flexibility and allowing the PRA to set the relevant requirements. To do that, legislation has been passed to revoke the CRR—notably in FSMA 2021 and FSMA 2023. In that context, the Government have brought forward these technical regulations to make a small number of consequential amendments to pieces of legislation that refer to specific CRR articles—specifically, they amend the Banking Act 2009 to ensure that definitions relating to share capital instruments and banks’ own funds reflect the revocation of certain CRR articles.”
“Members will be aware, banks are required to follow a set of prudential regulations to manage their risk appropriately and maintain adequate levels of capital to protect against any losses. In addition, the biggest banks are required to hold additional loss-absorbing debt to ensure that they can be allowed to fail without the need for taxpayer-funded bail-outs such as those seen during the global financial crisis. A significant amount of prudential regulation is set out in the capital requirements regulation, or CRR, which formed part of domestic law during our time as an EU member state. Following our exit from the EU, the Government have been tailoring the existing financial services framework to the UK’s needs.”
“The move will strengthen market integrity and boost investor confidence, helping the sector to attract new users and providers. The draft order is a core part of the Government’s agenda to drive growth in the UK’s sustainable finance market. The draft prudential regulation of credit institutions regulations are a technical instrument that makes changes to support reforms to UK banking regulation. The regulations will keep our legislation for financial services effective, and they will assist the Treasury in applying the FSMA model of regulation to set a prudential framework for banks. The regulations do not introduce any new regulatory requirements for firms. As hon.”
“The Government support open, competitive and internationally connected financial markets, and we therefore intend to give further consideration to market access arrangements for overseas ESG ratings providers. In the interests of allowing plenty of time for industry to engage, while also delivering a regulatory regime in a timely manner, the FCA launched its consultation on the specific regulations for ESG ratings providers on 1 December, on the basis that the draft order had been laid on 27 October. The FCA rules will be designed to be proportionate and tailored to address harms while protecting innovation, in line with the regulator’s secondary growth and competitiveness objective. The proposal to bring ESG ratings providers into regulation has received strong support from industry.”
“In recognition of the fact that ESG ratings are provided by a range of different persons, the scope of the regulated activity is designed to be proportionate to the risk of harm, avoiding dual regulation and maintaining consistency with the existing regulatory framework. The draft order contains specific exclusions to that effect, for example where a firm is providing ESG ratings as part of another regulated activity. To support the integrity of the UK market and ensure a level playing field, ESG ratings that are provided to a UK customer by an overseas provider will fall into the scope of the regulated activity, except where those ratings are provided without remuneration or financial incentive.”
“We remain open to the prospect of regulatory alignment with other regimes. We want to get this done first, but the hon. Gentleman raises an important point. As I say, the Government have acted quickly to deliver progress. As hon. Members will know, a consultation was issued by the previous Government; this Government have ensured that the consultation response and draft legislation were published for technical comments as part of the Chancellor’s first Mansion House speech. That draft legislation has been refined into the ESG ratings order before the Committee. The draft order will create a new regulated activity of providing an ESG rating where that rating is likely to influence a decision to make a specified investment. This will require providers of ESG ratings to be authorised and be supervised by the FCA.”
“I should make it clear that we have engaged extensively with the defence sector, and we think there is quite limited evidence that defence firms have struggled to access finance on ESG grounds. Briefly, the fiduciary duty is important and, as the shadow Minister knows, it has been much discussed. The Pensions Minister will address it further in subsequent stages of the Pension Schemes Bill.”
“In relation to charities—this is a good point and was considered—the scope of the regulated activity set out in the draft order is designed to be proportionate to the risk of harm. As such, charities will be excluded from regulation where a rating is provided on an occasional or one-off basis, or where there is no remuneration or other financial benefit provided to the charity. As I said, this approach, informed by consultation, ensures that the regulation is risk-based and proportionate while avoiding loopholes. The shadow Minister also mentioned defence. The Chancellor has stated very clearly her view that supporting the defence industry, and indeed Ukraine, is consistent with ethical investing. The regulation will allow investors to more fairly evaluate ESG risks and opportunities related to defence companies.”