Andrew RT Davies
Pen-y-bont Bro Morgannwg Commissioner · Welsh Conservative · Wales
“Will the Minister take an intervention? I have to say, I’m not overly familiar with this committee report, and I’ve sat in and listened to it. That is a severe criticism and observation provided by evidence to a witness to the committee, that people were imposed as mentors on companies and then founder members were removed.”
“Thank you, Presiding Officer. First Minister, we all saw the scenes over the weekend of the flooding that affected many parts of Wales, and our thoughts, I’m sure, are with the family of the bereaved gentleman in north Wales, which shows the ultimate price that can be paid by people when such severe weather hits our communities.”
“Can you confirm, First Minister, because, in fairness to the UK Government, they have offered support—to date, I think Steve Reed has indicated that no response has come from the Welsh Government; I don't mean that in a negative way, I mean most probably the Welsh Government, in fairness, is calibrating what is required—that there will be…”
“I really do hope that the First Minister will use her office, and that of the rest of Government, to drive this narrative that information is power in these situations and, ultimately, if that information isn't used to best effect, as we saw on the weekend, that devastating circumstances ensue.”
“I’m grateful for the final point, when you indicated that a meeting is to be convened next week. But what’s important from meetings is that there are concrete actions that come to address some of the shortfalls.”
“But, unlike me, obviously, you’re in Government. What are you doing with your agencies to get to the bottom of the lack of urgency around the warnings that could have prevented such losses as we saw of property and assets, and, ultimately, got the agencies better prepared for that appalling situation we saw on Sunday into Monday?”
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“Will the Minister take an intervention? I have to say, I’m not overly familiar with this committee report, and I’ve sat in and listened to it. That is a severe criticism and observation provided by evidence to a witness to the committee, that people were imposed as mentors on companies and then founder members were removed. To say that it is common practice for boards to remove, when the evidence that the committee took showed that there was some doubt in the genuine reasons why members might have been removed—the original founders of the company—is very concerning indeed. You’ve said yourself that you have looked at some of these complaints. Do you believe that the complaints have merit to them and need further investigation?”
“Can you confirm, First Minister, because, in fairness to the UK Government, they have offered support—to date, I think Steve Reed has indicated that no response has come from the Welsh Government; I don't mean that in a negative way, I mean most probably the Welsh Government, in fairness, is calibrating what is required—that there will be a taking up of that offer from the Welsh Government to bring more resource in to support the communities? And importantly, you've talked about the lessons learned, but can you confidently stand there and say, after storm Dennis, that the recommendations and the preventative measures were implemented in full to protect the communities as best as possibly could be expected, albeit in exceptional circumstances?”
“I really do hope that the First Minister will use her office, and that of the rest of Government, to drive this narrative that information is power in these situations and, ultimately, if that information isn't used to best effect, as we saw on the weekend, that devastating circumstances ensue. So, with that in mind, what financial support is the Government putting in place to support some businesses and individuals who are now in their second and third major flooding incident and ultimately will be facing a very bleak future unless there is some sort of intervention to support them to get to the other side of these flooding effects that are affecting their businesses and their domestic properties?”
“I’m grateful for the final point, when you indicated that a meeting is to be convened next week. But what’s important from meetings is that there are concrete actions that come to address some of the shortfalls. Many people indicated in some of the most severely affected areas in Pontypridd that the first that they realised the flooding was taking place was when neighbours were going from house to house banging on the doors. In an area that, only five years ago, had severe flooding—four years ago, I should say—from storm Dennis, that really is a failure to learn the lessons and implement an alert process.”
“But, unlike me, obviously, you’re in Government. What are you doing with your agencies to get to the bottom of the lack of urgency around the warnings that could have prevented such losses as we saw of property and assets, and, ultimately, got the agencies better prepared for that appalling situation we saw on Sunday into Monday?”
“Thank you, Presiding Officer. First Minister, we all saw the scenes over the weekend of the flooding that affected many parts of Wales, and our thoughts, I’m sure, are with the family of the bereaved gentleman in north Wales, which shows the ultimate price that can be paid by people when such severe weather hits our communities. There is a genuine question that’s coming loud and clear from those communities that, if there was greater warning, then there could have been more preventive measures put in place. I fully accept the force of the water in many areas was enormous, but there was a genuine point around a yellow alert being issued when we were forecast by the meteorologists and others that a month’s rain was going to fall in a 24-36 hour period. I hope you are as concerned as I am over those warnings.”
“That is incorrect. The OBR pointed out—. Yes, we accept that there was a gap, but that gap was about £9 billion and it is quite commonplace, in a £1 trillion budget, to have shortfalls and surpluses mid term, or a quarter way through the term. But the OBR pointed to £9 billion, not £22 billion. The £22 billion gap was inflicted on the country by inflation-busting pay rises that didn’t bear any resemblance to the pay review bodies', which recommended far lower pay review settlements.”
“So, could I ask that a statement comes from the Minister for health as to exactly what help, if any, the Welsh Government is able to afford to put in place to support GP surgeries, as well as the hospice movement, because I have Holme Tower in my own area here in South Wales Central, in Penarth, and they are all facing this budget pressure that, obviously, as a consequence of the budget, is really going to visit them with real force in the next financial year. So, hopefully, the Minister will agree, and we can have some information to come from the Welsh Government so that we can go back to our constituents and tell them that there is no danger to service provision.”
“Could I reiterate the calls that Sam Rowlands made in relation to the increase in national insurance? I know you, as the constituency Member for the Vale and Glamorgan, and regional Members have had a letter from the Western Vale doctors' surgery, which has highlighted the impact of the NI increases. And we can politically argue whether it's good or bad, but that letter clearly emphasised that it would cost that practice £33,000 a year extra, and that would mean—. And they use the specific example of the employment of a vaccination nurse having to be withdrawn from the service that they're able to provide.”
“That is a fundamental point in the taxation system that allows family farms to carry on. We've seen in Scotland today the Labour leader call out the flawed policy of withdrawing the winter fuel allowance to pensioners. Will you now find the backbone, First Minister, to call this policy out for what it is? It will be the destruction of family farms in Wales and the destruction of the agricultural industry as we know it.”
“The important thing is that you're the First Minister of Wales. You can start to stand up for Wales by calling out this policy and the reneging on the commitment that the Labour Party made in the run-up to the election, which was to keep agricultural property relief. That is a fundamental point in the taxation system—[ Interruption .]”
“When the press followed up that question, your department said that they did not have access to the figures and they referred them to the Treasury. So, you are defending a policy that you are not in complete control of or have knowledge of. DEFRA's own figures say that two thirds of farms will be affected by this change. The Treasury's figures say that it's under a third. Those two figures cannot be right. Which figure do you agree with, First Minister?”
“I'm grateful for the way that you phrased part of that answer, identifying the importance of farming to the psyche of Wales as a country, because it is part of our DNA—the industry is—and, indeed it's the bedrock of the biggest employment base that the economy has—the food processing sector combined with the agricultural sector. But you talked of the flames, and the flames were lit by the budget that the Labour Party brought at the end of October that reneged on commitment that the Prime Minister and the DEFRA Secretary made during the election campaign to not get rid of agricultural property relief. Now, two weeks ago, I raised this point with you, First Minister, and I asked you the numbers that you believed were going to be affected by this.”
“Thank you, Presiding Officer. First Minister, today many thousands of farmers from Wales are going to Westminster, along with farmers from across the United Kingdom. They are deeply troubled by the proposals contained within the UK Government budget to remove agricultural property relief, especially as the Prime Minister and the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Secretary said during the campaign that there were no plans to change agricultural property relief. Do you recognise, First Minister, that the language you used last Thursday, for people to 'calm down', is not borne out by the fear, the frustration and the anger that people feel about this betrayal by the Labour Party?”
“By all means. You talked about warm hubs. Are you proud that you're a member of a party that withdrew the winter fuel allowance and has taken that away from 570,000 pensioners here in Wales, which will see 4,000 premature deaths? Are you proud as a First Minister that you've said nothing to defend the pensioners of Wales?”
“And that's why I call on support for the motion that's before the Senedd this afternoon, and I'd hope that it carries favour and carries support and the First Minister does better in the next 100 days of her tenure to deliver for the people of Wales.”
“And that is why I look across the Chamber and look for support from all parties to support this motion, which I don't think I'm going to get from the governing party, and I can see Hefin's got his lectern ready to go, so we're going to listen to Hefin later on no doubt defend the Government's position. But, when you listen to what I've said today, I've offered the evidence and I've offered the solutions, in some instances, through Conservative policy positions that we've put loud and clear. And when people come before us with a manifesto and then break that manifesto within the first couple of days of Government, that loses trust in politicians and trust in parties.”
“But, regrettably, on all the fronts that I've mentioned in my opening remarks, the First Minister's been silent and failed to stand up for Wales on those important issues, whether it be the withdrawal of winter fuel payments, whether it be the introduction of national insurance, whether it be agricultural property relief, or actually mapping out a clear route to improve the NHS here in Wales and make sure that waiting times come down, which we all want to see. That is the purpose of the motion today, which is highlighting how the First Minister has, in her first 100 days, failed to stand up for the people of Wales and failed to deliver on what we would expect from a First Minister here in Wales: to deliver what's beneficial to the people of Wales.”
“And then, whether you agree or disagree with the agricultural property relief proposals that the Chancellor brought forward, again, it is a betrayal of the commitments that Keir Starmer made in 2023 and Steve Reed made in the general election this year, when they said they had no plans to change agricultural property relief. Surely, the First Minister would want to stand up for an important part of our economy, an important part of our social fabric and an important part of the rural fabric that is so important here to Wales.”
“We were told that, if Labour were in Government, ultimately, there would be a better deal offered by the Government in Westminster, and the Welsh Government were saying, 'Let's have the general election now. Let's have an early general election and change the narrative.' Well, no deal came forward, and the same amount of jobs was lost, regrettably, at Tata, as was originally envisaged by Tata back in 2023 in September. Now, where was that deal where we were told that, if you had the reins of power, you could make a better deal for the people of Wales and steel making here in Wales? Again, a failure to stand up for the people of Wales, and, in particular, the workers at Port Talbot in particular.”
“When you look at England, for example, the two-year waits are down to under 150 people waiting for two years or more. In Wales, it is 24,000 and rising. That is a damning indictment of Government failure here in Wales, and, ultimately, the First Minister, who was the health Minister, had a grip on this in her early tenure, but, every target she set herself, the Government missed. That is not standing up for patients here in Wales, it's not standing up for clinicians, and it's not standing up, importantly, for the workforce that turn up, day in, day out, to stand before their patients and try and deliver a world-class service. And that's what we must remember. The decisions that are taken here, in Cathays Park or in the Senedd, affect patients and staff alike. And then you look at the Tata deal.”
“Yet, in the first 100 days of the First Minister's time in office, there has been an increase of 9,000 pathways on the waiting lists, 4,000 patients have been added to the waiting lists, and nearly 1,000 extra patients are waiting two years or more. How can we generally have confidence that the First Minister has the grip and the Government have the grip on the waiting-time crisis that Wales is facing, in particular, when there are 614,000 patients waiting on a waiting list, and 800,000 pathways being added to by the day, because hospitals can't keep up with the demand? I accept that there is unprecedented demand—I fully accept that—but we in Wales, regrettably, have a higher proportion of the population on a waiting list than any part of United Kingdom.”
“That's real money, and I appreciate that the Government has a budget that it has to deliver, but when you've gone through a general election campaign and the politicians have said, 'We have no intention to raise NI contributions,' it's not unreasonable to be bitterly disappointed when the first budget that's laid has such a dramatic impact on employment opportunities, not just here in Wales but across the United Kingdom. And that's a big issue of trust that people have lost in the Government in Westminster, and, indeed, the Labour Party. But, closer to home, the First Minister set the target quite clearly of reducing waiting times, and I raised this yesterday in First Minister's questions, highlighting the 50-day challenge that the health Minister's brought forward.”
“But it was highlighted yesterday that salons and barbershops across the country, through their trade association, have said that 40 per cent of barbershops and salons are unviable with this increase in NI contributions. Just to put it into context, the NI contribution for someone on the medium range of wage of £33,000, it'll cost an employer £900 extra to employ that person with this increase in NI. Someone on the minimum wage will cost an employer £770.”
“And then we look at national insurance increases here in Wales and the commitments made by the Labour Party in opposition that it was a jobs tax if you raise NI contributions and there were no plans within the manifesto to lift NI contributions, when we know full well the detrimental impact it will have on job numbers here in Wales. The numbers that only came out yesterday showed that we've got the highest unemployment already of any part of the United Kingdom, at 5.3 per cent and rising. We've seen already an increasing number of businesses highlighting the dramatic impact that this increase in NI will have on their affairs. I don't give much business to hairdressers, as many people, a bit like the Deputy Presiding Officer and myself, who have the same condition.”
“When you think of the winter fuel allowance, 570,000 pensioners are going to be hit by this cruel withdrawal of a valuable benefit. No manifesto commitment was made, I accept that, but many manifesto commitments historically exist in Labour manifesto documents, and their own briefing documents in the 2017 election clearly stated that the withdrawal of this benefit would see 4,000 premature deaths—4,000 premature deaths by the withdrawal of this benefit. Surely it's not unreasonable to expect the First Minister of Wales to stand up for Welsh pensioners and highlight that such a drastic policy reversal by the Labour Party will have such an impact on pensioners here in Wales.”
“I have no doubt about that at all, and the commitment, that the Government benches here and in any Parliament take their job very seriously. But it cannot escape people's notice that, over the first 100 days of the First Minister's tenure in office, there have been some significant decisions, both here in Cardiff and also in Westminster, in particular when it comes to the budget and also the ramifications of some of the early decisions that the Labour Party took in Government in Westminster, in particular, the withdrawal of the winter fuel allowance for pensioners. Because it is about—[ Interruption .] It is about standing up for Wales and making sure that, where Wales's interest isn't best served, that is called out and it is pointed out what is detrimental to many citizens here in Wales.”
“Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I formally move the motion standing on the order paper today, and I also reject the two amendments that have been added by the opposition party and the governing party in relation to the motion. Most politicians seem to get fixated on the first 100 days of anyone's tenure in office, and this motion today is not about chastising the First Minister or the Government for the actions they have taken, it is about pointing out where we believe the decisions that you have taken have been wrong and not in the interest of Wales. Because I don't underestimate—[ Interruption .]—I don't underestimate the responsibility that being a Government Minister, or indeed a First Minister, actually holds, and the weight that's on your shoulders.”
“That is a big number of businesses that could be affected on a UK basis, but in a Welsh basis, we're talking several hundred, which would have a dramatic impact on the landscape and the productivity and viability of Welsh agriculture. So, is the Cabinet Secretary minded to undertake a piece of work that would support the assertion that the First Minister made in FMQs that a piece of work was under way?”
“Minister, thank you for that answer. I recall the First Minister saying last week in First Minister's questions that the Welsh Government had done an analysis, but I think, in response to Llyr Gruffydd's question, you indicated that it was more of a general assessment that you'd taken from HM Revenue and Customs figures about the withdrawal of agricultural property relief. Is the Welsh Government minded to do a detailed piece of work that is specific to Welsh agriculture, so that we can get to fully understand the implications for the viability of Welsh agriculture that these proposals represent? Because if you take the Treasury's own figures, this will affect about 2,000 farms across the whole of the United Kingdom, and in a five-year parliamentary term, that's 10,000 farms.”
“5. Pa asesiad y mae'r Ysgrifennydd Cabinet wedi'i wneud o effaith cyllideb hydref Llywodraeth y DU ar amaethyddiaeth Cymru? OQ61855”
“But is there an ability for you, as finance Minister, to look at the ability of the resource that is available to the Welsh Government to reinstate the business rate relief at the full value that was prior to last year's Welsh Government budget of 75 per cent to Welsh businesses, because that would be a very useful tool in allowing money to be retained within those businesses and to offset the increased costs that those businesses face in employing people, going forward?”
“Thank you, finance Minister. It's a bit of a groundhog day standing here asking you questions. Obviously, one of the measures that came out of the UK Government budget was the increase in national insurance contributions to employers. That, potentially, has a devastating impact on the ability of companies to employ. A company employing someone on the medium wage would end up paying an additional £900 in national insurance, and, on the minimum wage, it would be £770. You are formulating the Welsh Government budget at the moment, finance Secretary. I wouldn't ask you to disclose what's in that budget, because you wouldn't tell me.”
“2. Pa drafodaethau y mae'r Ysgrifennydd Cabinet wedi'u cael â Llywodraeth y DU ynglŷn a chyllideb hydref Llywodraeth y DU? OQ61856”
“I ask you now for the third time: given the points that you have put forward in your first 100 days, of this £28 million, of this 50-day challenge, how can we have confidence that waiting times will improve and pressures will abate on our hospitals and primary care? As I said to you, 9,000 pathways have been added to waiting times, 4,000 patients have been added to the waiting times overall, and 1,000 patients, nearly, have been added to the two-year wait. The figures are going in the wrong direction, First Minister. We're knocking on the door of deepest winter; give some hope to our health workers and give some hope to the patients of Wales.”
“I still haven't had a single figure from you, despite twice asking and wishing you well in your endeavours, because the consequences of the blockages in our health service were shown again down in west Wales, in Nantgaredig Rugby Football Club, where a player was left on the pitch for six hours because an ambulance could not come because they were tied up with other emergency calls or outside an accident and emergency department. Now, it can't be beyond the wit of the First Minister and the Government to come up with some numbers so that people can actually have confidence—[ Interruption. ]—that you're not chasing a social media post. I heard the delivery Minister commenting then. Perhaps you'd like to stand up, delivery Minister, and tell us what you're delivering, because this Government isn't delivering a reduction in waiting times.”
“So, I just ask a simple question: when the Cabinet are having these briefing papers, surely there's an outcome paper that says, 'If you do A, you will get B. If you do C, you will get D.' So, could you, in simple, layman's terms, say what exactly the figures will look like at the end of the 50-day challenge? People need respite, and the staff in particular need respite from the horrendous pressures they're facing. Give them some hope; give us those figures.”
“Thank you for the word soup, First Minister; I was looking for some real hard and fast targets, because in those 100 days since you’ve become First Minister, there have been an additional 9,000 pathways added to waiting lists here in Wales, there have been nearly 4,000 patients added to the 600,000 patients that are waiting for treatment in Welsh hospitals, and there have been nearly 1,000 patients added to the two-year wait, which you promised would be eliminated at the start of this year. So, I understand the pressures; we all understand that. I actually wish you well in your endeavours trying to bring these waiting times down, because at the root of all of these waiting time statistics are individuals. And, importantly as well, there are staff who are at their wits' end.”
“Can you highlight to me at the end of that 50 days what type of waiting times we will see and what type of percentage of beds will be occupied by people who would be better off in a community setting, because, at the moment, nearly 20 per cent of hospital beds in some hospitals are occupied by people who shouldn’t be in a hospital setting but could be better treated elsewhere?”
“Thank you, Presiding Officer. First Minister, your hundredth day in office is on Thursday, and you rightly at the outset of taking up the office highlighted bringing waiting times down as being of top priority for the Government and that all agencies of the Government would work to that effect. You’ve listed several initiatives that you’ve brought forward, the most recent of which is the 50-day challenge that the health Minister announced yesterday, about getting early discharge from hospital for those who are better served in their own homes or in a community setting, thus creating more bed capacity for elective surgery.”
“I’m grateful. Thank you, finance Secretary. Could you pinpoint to me where the OBR—because you use this as a line of defence for the budget and the £22 billion supposed black hole—could you pinpoint where the OBR highlighted the existence of that £22 billion black hole? Because I can’t find it, and they certainly did not highlight it in their report.”
“But the other point that we have to think on as well is the rise in student loans and tuition fees that was announced by the Government yesterday in Westminster, despite obviously the Prime Minister, when he was racing to be the leader of the opposition at the time, saying that he was not going to raise fees and that he wanted to get rid of them. And also Bridget Phillipson, the Secretary of State for Education, saying exactly the same thing. So, you've dished it out to pensioners by getting rid of the winter fuel allowance, you're dishing it out to the students now. First Minister, can you see why the people of Wales believe that they cannot trust this Government here in Cardiff Bay or the Government in Westminster to stick to one pledge, one commitment that they've made, and they feel so bitterly betrayed by the Labour Party?”
“First Minister, as I said to you, it's another broken promise. The Chancellor, when she was the shadow Chancellor, said that raising national insurance was a tax on jobs. The business Secretary, when he was the shadow business Secretary, said exactly the same thing. And you talk about lifting thresholds; what they did was decrease the threshold where people will start paying national insurance to £5,000. That will capture many, many people who work part-time—many, many females and women working in the charitable sector, which ultimately offers such work in the hospice movement and the charitable sector, raising money across the whole of Wales.”
“Because without that support, and built on the bed of broken promises from the Chancellor and the Labour Party, many of those businesses and many of those facilities will end up shutting their doors.”
“Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. The other broken promise we saw was around national insurance and the uplift in national insurance that will have such a devastating impact—an employment tax, a jobs tax that the Chancellor highlighted in opposition and so did the business Secretary. We know that many businesses will be affected by it, but also, as we've heard in your answer to previous questions, those in the charitable sector, such as hospices, and those who provide many of the primary functions in the health service, such as GPs, optometrists and pharmacists. So, what assessment has the Government made of what support they will be able to bring forward to mitigate that impact on many of the small practices that are the front door in Wales to the NHS?”
“First Minister, no apologies, no sense of distress at what the farming community are going to face. [ Interruption. ] What I am going to say to you is this is a broken promises budget, that ultimately—[ Interruption. ]”
“It's nice to see they've found their voice after many weeks of sitting in silence. It was a budget of broken promises and brutal betrayal. When you look at the agricultural community and the change in agricultural property relief, when the Department for Environment Food and Rural Affairs Secretary said in the run-up to the general election there were no plans to change agricultural property relief, when the Prime Minister himself said that there were no plans to change agricultural property relief, do you understand the anger, the concern and the fear that farmers and those dependent on the agricultural industry feel when they have been so bitterly betrayed by your party?”
“Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. First Minister, last week's budget was a budget of broken promises. We saw first-hand—[ Interruption .] I thought that would get a reaction. [ Interruption .] I thought that would get a reaction—”