Janet Finch-Saunders
Group Bangor Conwy Môn · Welsh Conservative · Wales
“Local small businesses, like the Black Boy Inn in Caernarfon—that's a really good pub, by the way, the Black Boy Inn, and it's not in my constituency—point out that they are central to preserving the heart and soul of our towns. If we abandon them, what future are we giving our cultural hubs?”
“I've got to thank them; they really are very good at policy and supporting our small businesses, and it needs saying. There will be an overall increase in taxes for small businesses of £24.5 billion a year from 2025-26.”
“Copper is critical to the manufacture of much of the green technology, such as wind turbines, electric vehicles, solar panels, and the electrical infrastructure. Copper is also essential to support the transition away from fossil fuels, and I've been round a mine in Anglesey recently that does gold, silver, bronze, iron ore and copper.”
“This is going to be really harmful to Wales, where small and medium-sized enterprises account for over 99 per cent of businesses and 63 per cent of private sector employment. I've said it before and I will say it again: the raising of NICs heightens the tax wedge between what employers pay to hire workers and what employees receive.”
“'Small Business Saturday'—say it loud and say it proud. The UK Labour Government's decision to increase employer national insurance contributions is going to be a devastating blow to our businesses, which are already grappling with soaring costs. It's rather like déjà vu here.”
“Too often, I stand here and it's a challenge for the Welsh Labour Government to even understand this, and it shouldn't be. Our small businesses see what happens here, they hear what happens here and they feel what your policies are doing to them.”
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“Too often, I stand here and it's a challenge for the Welsh Labour Government to even understand this, and it shouldn't be. Our small businesses see what happens here, they hear what happens here and they feel what your policies are doing to them. You can all smile, you can all laugh, but I'm telling you now that I believe, in 18 months' time—. Our small businesses have had enough. Rather like our farmers, they have had enough; they've had enough of you and your policies. I just wish there was an election here in Wales a lot sooner than 18 months. We will always champion—[ Interruption .] We will always champion the rights of our small businesses and thank them for what they do. Diolch yn fawr.”
“Local small businesses, like the Black Boy Inn in Caernarfon—that's a really good pub, by the way, the Black Boy Inn, and it's not in my constituency—point out that they are central to preserving the heart and soul of our towns. If we abandon them, what future are we giving our cultural hubs? That's why, actually, in 18 months' time, there needs to be an end to Welsh Labour's quarter-of-a-century rule here. We must introduce proactive proposals, abolish business rates for small businesses, offer tapered relief for five years to support start-ups and introduce the 'jump start Wales' scheme to cover NICs for two employees in microbusinesses for two years. It is policies like that that will provide financial stability and foster entrepreneurship, ensuring that small businesses can thrive without punitive taxes.”
“I've got to thank them; they really are very good at policy and supporting our small businesses, and it needs saying. There will be an overall increase in taxes for small businesses of £24.5 billion a year from 2025-26. Not only this, but Labour's tax hikes come alongside other burdens, including increased national minimum wage rates and packaging levies. Retailers estimate that these policies will cost the sector an additional £7 billion, leading to even higher prices and more job losses. In Wales, where unemployment is the highest in the UK at 5.3 per cent, these measures will only exacerbate economic inactivity and further erode fragile local economies. It does, however, seem that we are the strongest—the Welsh Conservatives are the strongest at standing up for our businesses.”
“This is going to be really harmful to Wales, where small and medium-sized enterprises account for over 99 per cent of businesses and 63 per cent of private sector employment. I've said it before and I will say it again: the raising of NICs heightens the tax wedge between what employers pay to hire workers and what employees receive. This discourages job creation, depresses wages, reduces profits, with less tax being paid into the kitty. It really is that simple. Moreover, small businesses in Wales are disproportionately affected, struggling against an economic backdrop of higher business rates compared to businesses over the border, limited revenue growth and the ongoing cost-of-living crisis. The latest FSB small business index—.”
“'Small Business Saturday'—say it loud and say it proud. The UK Labour Government's decision to increase employer national insurance contributions is going to be a devastating blow to our businesses, which are already grappling with soaring costs. It's rather like déjà vu here. I was stood here, the finance Minister was sat there, and yes, there we go. [ Laughter .] Coupled with the reduction of the secondary threshold to £5,000, this policy completely breaks Labour's manifesto promises and represents a complete betrayal of trust by the Labour Party of our workers and business owners. And it was nice—and a bit refreshing, actually—to hear John Griffiths on the Labour benches supporting the ethos of our debate today.”
“Copper is still not on the UK critical minerals list, unlike in the EU and USA, despite there being such huge potential for mining it here in Wales. Will you co-operate with the UK Government to see copper placed on the UK critical minerals list, so that green infrastructure is developed in Wales with Welsh, not foreign, copper, so that we can rely less on such a heavy carbon footprint of importing such rare and precious metals? Diolch.”
“Copper is critical to the manufacture of much of the green technology, such as wind turbines, electric vehicles, solar panels, and the electrical infrastructure. Copper is also essential to support the transition away from fossil fuels, and I've been round a mine in Anglesey recently that does gold, silver, bronze, iron ore and copper. United Kingdom imports of copper were over £1.5 billion during 2023, although large reserves of iron and copper ore do exist in the United Kingdom. These ores are now largely imported, such as from Chile and China. As the Member for Aberconwy, I can speak at first-hand of how valuable the copper mines on the Great Orme have been for many years. It was the wealth from the mining of that copper that helped to form the town that stands there now.”
“Yes, I'm coming to the end. Storm Bert is a stark reminder that Wales cannot afford to delay, for without decisive action, it will be our Welsh communities who continue to bear the brunt of these horrific disasters. And I'm very happy to work with you, Cabinet Secretary, on any groups you want to get together, because I think this affects us all, and maybe we can work together on that. Thank you. Diolch yn fawr.”
“And I don't know how you can do that without an actual independent review. The parallels with storm Dennis in 2020 are striking and concerning. And I know earlier that mention was made that the properties are going to get between £500 and £1,000. Well, I have to tell you, the kind of works needed on properties after severe floods is quite high. I mean, in 2021, £45,000 was spent on one house. We know that construction costs, we know that renovation costs, refurbishment costs are a lot higher now in 2024 than they were in 2020, and so I just wonder whether that kind of money is enough.”
“And again, there will be people now worried, 'Well, it didn't happen to me this time, how safe is the coal tip near where I live?' The response to storm Bert has reignited calls for a dedicated flood agency and a comprehensive review of our own flood management policies. Now, you will be aware, Cabinet Secretary, that we on these benches have maintained that after such large incidents as this, we believe there should be an independent review because, at the moment, you're relying on local authorities, NRW and the section 219s, which take absolutely months and months and months to come to fruition. And people want answers to questions. They want to be sure when it starts raining again, like a heavy tap, that lessons have been learned from every single flooding incident.”
“I refer them to the local authority, who say, 'It's not something we do, give advice on floodgates.' And I just wondered whether part of these flooding forums and flooding resilience teams, whether all year round now there can be some kind of guidance, advice given to those home owners who want to do their own bit to try and protect their property. Of course, the main rail artery was closed between Abergavenny and Hereford due to a landslip, and roads are similarly flooded in Wales. And then of course, we had the tragic landslide of the coal tip and everything. That, again, is something that I'd never thought I'd hear in this Chamber again, that there'd been such landslides like that. So, it emphasises the concerns we've raised in this Senedd in the past about coal tip safety.”
“In addition to the human cost, of course, the storm wreaked havoc on our infrastructure and our transport networks. Major roads and railway lines remain blocked by floodwater, fallen trees and landslides. Now, I know you mentioned about the £300 million and some of that is floodgates. I still worry about the flooding resilience that we do have in our local communities because, quite often, I will have residents saying to me, 'I want to buy my own floodgate. That's something I want to do to protect my property.' They never know—.”
“And as mentioned last night, 80 per cent of the normal rain in November fell in a period of just 48 hours. And we know now, don't we, I think we're more mindful of these flooding incidents when they name them? I can remember Ciara and Dennis and other named floods that have affected our communities. And when you mention the sadness of 433 properties affected across Wales, there are other properties and property owners who I know now, in my own constituency, who say, 'When we get heavy rain, we don't sleep; we worry that we're going to be next.' So, it's the impact on people who may have not been affected this time in terms of their property, but mentally and emotionally, it really does take its toll. None of us know here just when the next storm will come, how severe it will be and how it's going to affect our communities.”
“Can I thank you, Minister, for being so quick to bring a statement here today? Sometimes in the past we've had to raise urgent questions when we've had incidents such as this, and I was about to submit one and I was really pleased when I heard that you were bringing a statement anyway. Thank you, it does make a lot of difference to everyone. I wish to put on record my thoughts with all those affected, my prayers to the family of Mr Bryan Perry, the gentleman who sadly lost his life in my constituency, and my thanks to residents who all got together and worked within the local community alongside our emergency services. With some areas recording over 100 mm of rainfall, the storm prompted severe flood warnings, including significant risk to life in parts of the country.”
“Oh, I do apologise. But I have not used those words, today in my speech, or at any time in this Chamber since I've been elected. Diolch.”
“I'm sorry, Cabinet Secretary, but I have never uttered the words that you have just said that I've said here. You won't find them on the Record of Proceedings. I've never even mentioned those words. So, I would ask you to withdraw those comments. I have not—”
“I’ve heard that women and children using holiday accommodation whilst fleeing violence will have to pay this visitor levy, but I understand the charity, or they themselves, can then ask for it back. Do you honestly think—? I think that’s insensitive, expecting people who’ve come here, actually fleeing domestic abuse and violence, after all the talk about it here—. Why should they have to pay this, finance Cabinet Secretary? And—”
“—hurtling towards 3 million people dissatisfied with you and your policy. Why are you not listening? And a very important point—”
“The consultation on this, I understand, was overwhelmingly against the implementation of this tax, so do you not actually listen when you put these consultations out? People are so fed up right now with the Labour Government in the UK, and here, hence why we’ve got a petition—”
“The thing about being a politician is that we’re here to serve those that we represent. We’re not here to pay lip service to these shocking policies that you’re bringing forward. A tourism tax in Wales is nothing short of a disgrace. It's £1.25 for hotels—that apparently now includes VAT. Would the Cabinet Secretary provide clarification? Hotels in particular are already seeing food cost increases, higher energy bills, staff wages up, a percentage of business rates relief withdrawn. This tax will see visitors thinking twice about travelling to Wales, and I’ve got to be honest, I think that’s something that Plaid Cymru wants—it was their payback for the co-operation agreement. Too often we hear of references to other countries. Mallorca, for instance, has a much lower VAT rate, but even they are now thinking of withdrawing the tourism tax.”
“Let me be clear: the Welsh Government may not stand up for small businesses, but there is one party in this Chamber that does, and it is we on these Welsh Conservative benches. We will continue to fight for fairer policies that protect jobs, encourage growth and ensure that Wales prospers. It is time for change, it is time for policies that work for Wales, not against it, and in 18 months the voters in Wales will have that chance. Bring it on.”
“Even limited company directors, who are already squeezed by high costs, will be hit hard. If they pay themselves a salary, they too will face higher national insurance contributions. A survey by the Federation of Small Businesses revealed that 92 per cent of small employers are already worrying about the costs and risks of hiring. Wales was the only UK nation where visitor spending in 2023 failed to return to pre-pandemic levels. Since the pandemic, 17 per cent of hospitality venues in Wales have closed, compared to 14 per cent in England and 13 per cent in Scotland. This tax hike will hit these sectors hard, particularly those reliant on part-time workers. But all we've seen since July is a Welsh Labour Government without any backbone, allowing Westminster to dictate policies that harm our own people and businesses.”
“However, these consequences don't stop there. This increase will place an additional £100 million burden on public sector employers in Wales, affecting the 460,800 public sector workers across the country. We heard yesterday that it is also going to deeply affect our GP surgeries across Wales, with one surgery having to cough up an extra £30,000, the entire salary of a vaccinations nurse. Where's the sense in that? This is money that could and should be used to improve essential public services, not to patch up Westminster's poor policy decisions. We keep being told, finance Cabinet Secretary, about this £22 billion hole. Well, I can tell you the OBR dispute that, and I would love you to tell us today the proof, the evidence, that supports that £22 billion hole.”
“This policy, which disproportionately impacts Wales, is a betrayal of trust, and a blatant disregard for the challenges faced by the people and businesses in our nation. Small and medium enterprises are the backbone of Wales, making up 99.3 per cent of businesses. These enterprises are already grappling with economic pressures, and now the UK Government, the UK Labour Government, is asking them to shoulder even more financial strain. On Welsh tv last night, Mountain Warehouse claimed it will see an increase of £800 per employee, stopping growth and ultimately could see implications for the number of workers they employ and also possibly passing on the cost to customers who can't afford it, because customers are already facing high home expenses and things. There will be stagnant wages and fewer job opportunities.”
“We've already seen two massive protests in Llandudno and London by our hard-working farmers, and whilst the emphasis was, yes, on the inheritance tax, many that I've spoken to within Aberconwy say the national insurance implications and the increases are going to really make them struggle. The Government's decision to increase employer national insurance contributions from 13.8 per cent to 15 per cent breaks even their own manifesto promise not to raise taxes on workers, and that was enticing people to vote for them. How can they betray people who then voted for them and do the opposite? It's just disgraceful. Darren Millar is quite right to put forward an amendment from us on this.”
“Once again, we just see another hit to Wales and its businesses. The UK Government's decision to raise employer national insurance contributions in the autumn budget is nothing short of a disgrace. This policy is misguided, it's damaging, it's a direct attack on businesses and workers, with the potential to stall wage growth, limit job creation and weaken the already fragile Welsh economy. The Chancellor, the Rt Hon Rachel Reeves, claims this tax hike is necessary to fund public services. But let us be clear, the burden will not fall on her desk in Westminster, it will fall on our employers, our employees, our small businesses, their families—already struggling to make ends meet.”
“It was a challenging task, therefore, to be involved with this budget, and, no doubt, the Commission and everyone involved have risen to that challenge. Diolch.”
“The vast increase in budget—the vast increase—is down to Senedd expansion, as seen in the 147 per cent rise for Senedd reform and related works, and £3.9 million only for upgrading this Chamber—I say that, ‘only’, in terms of comparison. This, sadly, we feel is not justified, especially given the financial pressures facing public services in Wales. The budget for the Ways of Working programme, which will shape the future estate strategy for Commission staff, Members and support staff, appears well structured, but I’m aware that this, again, can be an evolving process. I must make it clear that there should be continued transparency on this, and I think it’s fair to say that we’re seeing more transparency in our workings out. As a Welsh Conservative, my stance remains clear: the expansion of the Senedd is a step we cannot support.”
“Whilst we acknowledge the need to prepare for changes stemming from the Senedd Cymru (Members and Elections) Act 2024, we still believe that these resources would be better allocated to essential public services such as healthcare, education, our road infrastructure, social services—I could go on. Expanding the Senedd from 60 to 96 Members does entail substantial long-term costs, as made clear by the increase in the budget to over £84 million, representing a 16.77 per cent increase over the previous year. And it is fair to say, as the Member for Aberconwy, I have been inundated with numerous people saying, ‘Why are we not having a referendum on this matter?’ Some members of the public are not even aware that this is happening, because, unless you’re very interested in politics, you can miss these things.”
“Similarly, the transparency around staffing costs and the adjustments made to account for pay awards and employer pension contributions signal our Senedd Commission and its commitment to fairness and efficiency. As the Commissioner explained regarding the 11 per cent increase in operational costs, the issue we do have is there is a pay deal of 5 per cent, which is higher than we'd bargained for, and factors such as this are just simply beyond our Commission and its control. However, I must point out the elephant in this room. We, the Welsh Conservatives, maintain and endorse our firm opposition to the expansion of the Senedd, the introduction of new Members, the new voting system that is going to come in, which we believe is less democratic for our voters, and, of course, the additional costs.”
“As the Finance Committee has noted, we are seeing a 16 per cent increase in budget for a 60 per cent increase in the size of the Senedd, and these costs compare favourably, actually, with other Parliaments, observing that the Scottish Parliament is nearly £200,000 more expensive per Member than the Senedd Cymru/Welsh Parliament. The Commission has made a clear commitment to value for money, and notes the responsible approach to managing cyclical costs associated with the pre-election period. There is also a focus on redesigning our estates and services, whilst preparing for an expanded seventh Senedd entails substantial investment into estate modifications, ICT upgrades and infrastructure maintenance.”
“So, it's clear that this budget does reflect significant efforts to ensure effective management of resources, whilst addressing the operational needs of the Senedd, particularly as we approach the transition to the enlarged seventh Senedd. The Commission demonstrated, in my opinion, foresight by ring-fencing funds for critical areas such as preparatory works for Senedd reform, the Ways of Working programme and pre-election preparations. I commend the thoughtful efforts made to manage budget pressures, resulting from the creation of new committees, and, as noted by the Commissioner to the Finance Committee, these have notably increased some operational costs, highlighting how the budget has had to remain flexible and responsive to evolving need.”
“First of all, can I thank our Commission finance people for their dedicated efforts in preparing the 2025-26 Commission budget? I'd like to thank the Finance Committee, and you, Peredur, as the Chair, and also Hefin David as our Mr Chancellor. I honestly think it's the most difficult job that you do have. The invaluable scrutiny that you gave this budget has been very instrumental in shaping this process. We have reviewed their recommendations carefully, and we appreciate the opportunity to take them into account, and, as a very proud Welsh Conservative Commission member, I am very mindful of how we, this Commission, use taxpayers' money and the spending of it. I'm also aware too of the budget pressures.”
“What assessment have you made of the impact this is going to have now, not having a deposit-return scheme? What assessment have you made, before pulling out, of the cost of your decision to go it alone to the Welsh Government, and, more importantly, to our businesses in Wales? Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd.”
“No, you're all right. So, thanks to your actions now, as UKHospitality Cymru have stated, DRS now looks further away than ever. It is truly a symptom of the need to reform this Welsh Parliament, that it will have taken over a decade of debate to introduce a DRS for Wales. So, Minister, what is your target date for the Wales-only scheme to come into force? Two, you have publicly blamed the previous UK Government and the United Kingdom Internal Market Act 2020—you used that as an excuse—yet you do not agree that your party, which is now the UK Government, could change the Act. Another question: I once supported the inclusion of glass, but have listened—. The First Minister says she listens, but I listened, and I agree with the way forward being pursued in the other three nations. So, what assessment have you made—”
“So, for me, I brought to the Senedd—I think it was about three years ago; four years ago—a legislative proposal for a DRS and a waste reduction Bill. It secured cross-party support. Now, I've said before that it's all well and good bringing these forward, having them supported, but, then, putting that into policy. But the DRS was something that lots of people were looking forward to. I understand the issues around glass, but I don't agree with them. But to have stopped this in its tracks completely, I think you are—”
“Oh, sorry, I was expecting a longer answer—sorry. [ Laughter .] On that note, though, I have to say, and credit where credit is due, Conwy County Borough Council—and it goes back to the time when Sam Rowlands, my colleague to my left, was leader as well—we've got fantastic recycling rates in Conwy, and Wales itself is playing its part in recycling, and we've got to acknowledge that. However, if you do a beach clean, and work with organisations like the Marine Conservation Society, there's still a lot more to be done. There are still lots of bottles and things found on beaches when doing a beach clean. These then are ingested by many of our sea mammals, and we must never forget that we have a nature recovery crisis here.”
“The CPS and the courts are unwilling to give out custodial sentences, or do anything, really, to keep these youngsters in check. When they’ve approached the parents, the parents would say, ‘Well, there’s nothing I can do. It’s not my responsibility.’ Well, I was just wondering, £160 million has been put into this budget, but how do you work with local authorities, the CPS and youth justice to ensure that, where you’ve got a gang culture starting up, it’s nipped in the bud immediately and that people are not living in fear of 11-year-olds, 13-year-olds and 15-year-olds who then have gangs supporting them? It’s just unacceptable in this day and age. Diolch.”
“Thank you, Minister. As a previous cabinet member in Conwy County Borough Council for public protection and community safety, going back a few years now, we used to have measures whereby the Crown Prosecution Service and the youth justice people and police would be able to come together to stop prevailing anti-social behaviour. I have to say that, recently, I’ve become very concerned when residents are approaching me and talking about feral youths and some of the anti-social behaviour and community safety issues. We’ve just had some fabulous new shelters along the promenade in Llandudno, around about £25,000 each, and 17 windows have been smashed. We’ve had a fire recently started and fighting in Mostyn Street. This is not a good look for a nice town that wants to attract tourists.”
“6. Pa gamau y mae’r Ysgrifennydd Cabinet yn eu cymryd i weithio gyda Heddlu Gogledd Cymru a rhieni i atal y cylch o ymddygiad gwrthgymdeithasol a difrod troseddol a achosir gan oedolion ifanc yn Aberconwy? OQ61870”
“So, can I have a statement, please, from the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care as to how the Welsh Government will look at ensuring that this situation is resolved, and very quickly? I don't want to see any more of my constituents going through the grief and the tragedy that they are facing at the moment, that they cannot get their loved ones home.”
“This is the second time now I've had to ask for a statement on this, and it's actually quite a delicate issue, but it's about the discharging of loved ones from hospital mortuaries. When I raised this before, people, families, undertakers were waiting up to two weeks for a body to be released from the hospital morgue. That time has increased now to a month. Now, if you can imagine, the grief with losing somebody, added to that then the fact that you cannot get your loved one home or to a funeral director. So, I've been in touch with the chair of the Betsi health board. They've acknowledged the problem and explained they're currently working on solutions. However, the situation prevails.”
“Yes. Okay, I will. There is an election for the Senedd in 2026, in less than 18 months' time. The only real catalyst for change will be—for anybody watching this, and the voters out there—to vote Welsh Conservative, and let's see Andrew Davies—[ Interruption .] Let's see Andrew Davies—”
“You've gone around on this all-Wales exercise of listening to constituents. I don't know many people who say they've seen you. I don't know how much that cost, what you listened to, and how you are going to address it. That's why, really, I'm really looking forward to your response to this debate today, because, quite frankly, I have not seen anything within the last 100 days that tells me that things are going to get better in Wales. Believe me, in 18 months' time—”
“Davies in the position to be able to be the real catalyst for change, but you are there, you are the elected First Minister. Recent Welsh Government statistics reveal an employment rate of just 69 per cent in Wales, compared to the UK average of 75 per cent. We know the median wage is completely lower in Wales than it is in England. Economic inactivity remains high at 26 per cent. You've done nothing as well in your 100 days to stop the escalating temporary accommodation spend. We've now got 140,000 people on social housing waiting lists, and over 11,000 in temporary accommodation. Some of them are children and some of them will be spending Christmas Day, First Minister, in a hotel bedroom. So, you can see, as far as I'm concerned, I need to know where you've been listening.”
“We look at our farmers who've been, again, penalised by the UK Labour Government, and you support that, and you've done that within your 100 days. So, I'm not convinced that you are, as yet, the catalyst for change that Wales needs. A CLA Cymru poll found only 3 per cent of farmers now trust the Welsh Government, while 87 per cent believe the sustainable farming scheme will neither support their businesses nor achieve environmental goals. Welsh Labour's insistence on a 10 per cent tree cover target completely disregards farmers' concerns. Why are you not listening? I have to say, when you were health Minister, you did listen, and it was refreshing to be able to come to a health Minister where you were listening. We want you to listen now. We want you to be the catalyst for change. Don't get me wrong, I'd much rather have Andrew R.T.”
“Two-year waits remain unacceptably high, unmet targets in all health outcomes, cancer treatment targets are woefully behind, and GP accessibility has deteriorated—we've lost 100 practices since 2012. Polls now reveal that nearly three quarters of people lack trust in your Government's ability and, I guess, in you, to deliver healthcare in Wales. Given the ongoing issues within the Betsi Cadwaladr health board in north Wales, and the frequent mishandling of healthcare matters, it is unsurprising that public confidence remains so low. I put a freedom of information request in about how much medical negligence there was over the last 12 months, and just on ombudsman cases alone, without no-win, no-fee cases, without legal cases, it was £75,000—money that could have gone back into the health board.”
“So, granted, you've only been in post for 100 days, and it's fair to say—and it's not many more days that the UK Government have been in power—it's fair to say that you've done less damage than them, but you did support the taking, by the UK Government, of the fuel payments from our pensioners. So, for that, I just feel that you've failed the people of Wales. But we're looking for this change now, this catalyst for change. Despite your promises to reinvent Welsh Labour, our waiting times have worsened. Wales is now facing a healthcare crisis like no other, with over 800,000 people waiting for treatment, equivalent to one in four of the population.”
“Well, let's not beat about the bush here—I never do. There's some irony I've heard from other Member benches today and, it has to be said, some hypocrisy. Welsh Labour, supported by Plaid Cymru over the past 25 years, have led to some shockingly high waiting lists, poor educational outcomes, a collapsing public transport system, and our roads are in disrepair—I could go on. Social services completely underfunded. So, there's always new hope when a fresh and new leader takes over, the third one in less than four years. I always remember, First Minister, that your speech to the Labour conference in September 2024 said you were going to be a catalyst for change.”
“Yes. I thank the committee team once again—the clerk and everybody who set up the visit for us—because it really showed me a different perspective on some of the evidence that we'd taken during our committee findings. Thank you.”