Alun Davies
Welsh Labour · Wales
“Like others this afternoon, I'd like to start my remarks by thanking the emergency workers who spent so much time over the weekend protecting people and communities. I'd also like to thank all the volunteers and the communities that came together and took care of people who'd been affected by flooding.”
“If you're unable to deliver legislation over two Senedds, then we have to ask serious questions about the capacity of Welsh Government to deliver its legislative programme. Are we, for example—? We had a conversation earlier this afternoon about coal tip safety.”
“Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. Cabinet Secretary, I very much welcome the announcement that you're making today and that you discussed in the winter fair yesterday. I think the approach you're taking is absolutely the right one. We need to have a very strong focus on what our objectives and ambitions are.”
“The Minister for delivery is entering the Chamber, and I'm glad she's entering the Chamber, because I think it goes to the heart of some of the problems that the Welsh Government has faced in recent years.”
“But also on Sunday I saw the real heartbreaking scenes in King Street in Cwm and in Railway Street and Meadow Street in Llanhilleth, which were flooded for the second time in four years. We need the legislation on coal tips.”
“And farmers will know that if they want to produce not just this year and next year, but far into the future, the land has to be farmed in a sustainable fashion.”
The complete record
Every one of 44 lines we hold for Alun Davies, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account.
“If it doesn't have that capacity, then it should be very clear and say so, so that we can adjust our own legislative programmes for that, and we can tell our constituents that we don't have the capacity to deliver on the things that we are making promises about. I won't detain Members any further. I’ve heard what the whipping advice is, so I don't want to become even more unpopular in this place as a consequence of this. But I do believe that this is a serious matter that the Minister and the Government have to address as a matter of urgency. Thank you.”
“And the Minister in this case, of course, is a former Counsel General, so he's heard me preaching about the need for more Government lawyers—probably not the most popular campaign I've ever tried to fight, but I do believe that we need to have the resource in Welsh Government to deliver on the legislation that this place has been asked to enact. You cannot come to this place, ask us to enact legislation and then not deliver on it without good reason. And that means that we have to be clear—and this is the question I would put to the Minister for delivery—does the Welsh Government have the capacity it requires to deliver its own legislative programme?”
“If you're unable to deliver legislation over two Senedds, then we have to ask serious questions about the capacity of Welsh Government to deliver its legislative programme. Are we, for example—? We had a conversation earlier this afternoon about coal tip safety. A piece of legislation is going to be introduced here in two weeks' time to deliver the guarantees that we require on coal tip safety. How long will we wait when that is enacted for that actually to start to bite in the communities that I represent and many of us here represent? So, this is a very serious matter, and I don't believe that we can simply sit back and allow the Welsh Government to say one thing in terms of the need for fast, efficient legislation and then allow legislation to rest before it's implemented for so long.”
“And, of course, Brexit didn't actually occur until 2021, which is four years after the legislation was required, and we hear Ministers time and time again coming to this place telling us that we have to go to London to legislate, we have to use Westminster to legislate on devolved matters, because of the urgency of legislation, because legislation has to reach the statute book in a very urgent way. And then we find, when Welsh Government itself has the whole power over legislation and is able to deliver on its own commitments, it takes seven years to do it. Now, these are the conversations that we need to have, and I speak as somebody who wants to see this Government re-elected.”
“The Minister for delivery is entering the Chamber, and I'm glad she's entering the Chamber, because I think it goes to the heart of some of the problems that the Welsh Government has faced in recent years. The Minister, in his argument, says that the Welsh Government was unable to bring forward regulations for seven years because of COVID and because of Brexit. Well, that's not convincing, because we had three years before these matters raised their heads. We didn't have COVID until 2020, when the legislation was already on the statute book, and because the legislation had been prepared in the previous Senedd and not that Senedd, they already had time to prepare the sort of primary legislation that they would have required to deliver it. So, that's not convincing.”
“I think we should be investigating this matter, quite frankly. I read the correspondence from the Minister on the matter of the timescale, and I have to say I found it entirely unconvincing. I found all of his arguments unconvincing, I'm afraid. I sat on the original legislation committee, not just in the last Senedd, but in the Senedd before that, which considered these matters. Mark Drakeford was the health Minister at the time, and he brought forward a public health Bill in the 2015-16 session, which fell at the last part of that Senedd, and it was reintroduced, then, following the election in 2017. So, the Welsh Government has been trying to legislate on this matter for most of the last decade.”
“I hope you’ll be able to return to Blaenau Gwent very soon and discuss with Blaenau Gwent County Borough Council the investment and the support that they need to give to protect people in the hearts of our Valleys from the flooding that is taking place, but also, then, critically, to ensure that our coal tips are safe. The people of Cwmtillery have the right to feel safe in their homes, to go to bed at night feeling safe in their beds. We need to ensure that those people are taken care of, and all of us have a responsibility to do that.”
“But also on Sunday I saw the real heartbreaking scenes in King Street in Cwm and in Railway Street and Meadow Street in Llanhilleth, which were flooded for the second time in four years. We need the legislation on coal tips. We need to make the investment in making sure that our coal tips are safe, but we also need the investment in the water drainage infrastructure in the heart of our communities. In Cwm and in Llanhilleth, the flooding took place because we don’t have the infrastructure we require for the intense weather episodes we are now experiencing, and it is not fair or right that the people pay the price of that failure with their livelihoods and their homes and their hopes and their futures. So, we need to protect these people, Deputy First Minister.”
“Like others this afternoon, I'd like to start my remarks by thanking the emergency workers who spent so much time over the weekend protecting people and communities. I'd also like to thank all the volunteers and the communities that came together and took care of people who'd been affected by flooding. I'd also like to thank you, Deputy First Minister, for your visit to Cwmtillery yesterday morning. I could see the shock in your eyes when you saw the damage that had been done by that landslip. It was one of the most terrifying things, and all of us who were born and brought up in the Valleys of south Wales understand what that means to our communities—the very real fear that that creates in people. I know that Blaenau Gwent County Borough Council worked very hard on Sunday night to keep people safe in Cwmtillery.”
“And farmers will know that if they want to produce not just this year and next year, but far into the future, the land has to be farmed in a sustainable fashion. I particularly welcome the points that you made on hedgerows and planting, such as shelter belts, which I think fit into the topography and the ecology of our country, as well as the commercial nature of agriculture. So I very much welcome the announcement you've made, but also the tone and the way in which you've gone about seeking this agreement, because I think it's time we bring people together, we bring communities together, not seek to divide, but also do so in a way that sets very clear ambitions for the future of agriculture, the future of food production and the future of our country.”
“Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. Cabinet Secretary, I very much welcome the announcement that you're making today and that you discussed in the winter fair yesterday. I think the approach you're taking is absolutely the right one. We need to have a very strong focus on what our objectives and ambitions are. I think we've all struggled since the disaster of Brexit and the terrible impact that Brexit has had on agriculture, potentially worse than any other sector of the economy. But we've also struggled because we've had this false choice presented to us: either we have sustainable land management or we have food production. What we have to say is we want both, because my constituents know only too well after the last few days the importance of sustainable land management.”
“All of us who've lived in tourism hotspots, if you like, have seen the impact of tourism for good and for ill, in fact, and what we need to ensure is that the facilities exist to support and to sustain tourism, but also that tourists provide that investment in the communities they visit. So, I hope that what we'll see through this levy is greater investment in those communities, and the freedom for local authorities to take the decisions that they believe are best for their own communities.”
“Minister, I speak very briefly in order to support the proposal that is contained at the heart of this Bill. This is something that is entirely normal across the whole of the European mainland and elsewhere in the world. The hysteria we've heard from the Conservatives this afternoon is really misplaced. I've never seen them angry about poverty; I've only seen them angry about other things. Let me say this, Cabinet Secretary: I think it's important that the levy raises funds that are reinvested into the fabric of the communities that support and sustain tourism.”
“Presiding Officer, they’re embarrassed—we should forgive them. First Minister, do you agree with me that what we require now is a UK Government that believes in Wales, that’s going to invest in Wales, that’s going to invest in public services, and is going to invest in Welsh people for the future?”
“I'm sure, First Minister, the last thing you need this afternoon is lectures from supporters of Liz Truss on economics. We all saw what happened when we had the Conservatives in power; they can't decide whether it was £30 billion or £60 billion they lost that afternoon. But what we do know is that they crashed the economy, we do know that austerity led to no growth, and we do know that they supported a Brexit that has reduced our trade. On every test—[ Interruption .]—on every economic test, in 14 years, the Conservatives have failed Wales. First Minister—[ Interruption .]—First Minister, what the UK Government—”
“The values that we fought for in the second world war, the values that we fought for in the Falklands, are the values that are being fought for today by people in Ukraine: the values of freedom and democracy, of decency. The values for which generations of people have given their lives are the way in which we must also, not just on 11 November, not just on Remembrance Sunday, but every day of the year through the covenant, say 'thank you'.”
“And when the Scouts and the cadets from Wales and from the Netherlands walked together, with a candle in the cathedral, a candle representing every single one of the soldiers who had died to liberate that city, you saw another generation, joining remembrance, and something they themselves will hand over to future generations. And for all of us today, as politicians in different political parties and reaching out across the Chamber, the armed forces covenant is the way in which we say 'thank you' to all generations of the military and armed forces who have served and lost and sacrificed for all of us, so that we can debate these issues and disagree in peace in this Chamber.”
“And that collective memory and that collective gratitude of people is as real today as it has been at any time. And then to walk the streets of 's-Hertogenbosch early last month, along with Darren Millar and the Deputy First Minister, to see the gratitude of the people of that Dutch city towards Wales and those young Welsh soldiers who'd liberated them from Nazism 80 years ago. Down the generations, that memory is a real memory. It's a memory that is honoured every year in that city, where people stand and bow their heads in front of that memorial to the 53rd (Welsh) Infantry Division.”
“Like Hannah, I was a Scout in Tredegar some years ago now, and I stood in front of the cenotaph and I looked at those middle-aged men who'd fought in the second world war, all of whom were younger than I am today, and all of whom stood there with their own thoughts, in silence, thinking of their losses and thinking of their comrades and colleagues who weren't there around the cenotaph with them. But also, it's coming together, collectively. Visiting the Falklands earlier this year, we stood in front of the Falklands memorial, with Falkland islanders who remembered war in their home and who remembered the people who had liberated them, and remember, today, the people who lie, who never left the Falklands, but who are laying in the soil of the Falklands—people who liberated them and lost their lives by doing so.”
“My thoughts are also with the people I was with in Ukraine two weeks ago—myself, Mick Antoniw and many others—sitting in a shelter, listening to an air raid siren wailing in a European capital. All too often, remembrance isn't about the past, but about the present and the impact on people today. There will be another raid on Kyiv this evening, there will be more loss in Gaza and Lebanon in the next week, and I hope that we all, in a personal and collective way, remember all those who are suffering because of the reality of war in our continent and elsewhere today. I was also thinking—I was listening to Hannah Blythyn speak—about the wartime generation, who are passing today.”
“I'm grateful to you, Presiding Officer. Can I also declare an interest as a member of the Reserve Forces and Cadets Association for Wales board? I think remembrance is both a personal and a collective experience for us all. I certainly was thinking of my family, friends, neighbours and communities as I stood in silence with the people of Abertillery last Sunday morning, and, again, standing with the people of Nantyglo and Blaina a few hours later, thinking also of the communities that have lost and the people who continue to suffer as a result of war. For all of us, it is an intensely personal experience. My thoughts were also with the people in the middle east who have suffered and are suffering today as we debate these matters.”
“—in our services, our people and our communities to ensure that we have the opportunity to continue doing so in the future.”
“Many of us were burning the midnight oil last night watching the results from the United States, and one of the graphs that stayed with me—one of the graphics that I saw on CNN last night—was a correlation between the fall in support for the Democratic Party and the impact of inflation on wages. Where people had seen the quality and standard of living fall the greatest, so then did the vote for the Democratic Party, and that may be at the heart of the story of the election last night. So, the Welsh Government has 18 months to get these things right, and what we have to do is to invest—”
“One of the reasons we have a relatively high tax environment today is because there is far less trade intensity in the United Kingdom as a direct consequence of Brexit. As a consequence of that, you have to raise more taxation in order to raise more income. So, I think we need to have some serious thinking from the Conservatives on this. So, what then is the approach of the Welsh Government to an economic agenda? Does the Welsh Government believe that being outside the single market is going to have an impact on our own tax revenues in the in the coming years? Are we going to have an economic strategy and policy that is based on the work that is being done in London, and how then will we be able to deal with that and debate that? And finally, let me finish with this.”
“Both the finance Secretary and others have spoken very clearly and very convincingly of the need for more funding into public services, and I agree with that argument. I accept it completely. But are we simply going to invest more finance and more funding in the public services as they are today, or do we want to reform public services for the future? I'd be interested to know and to understand how the Welsh Government intends to take that forward. Thirdly and finally in this debate, an economic agenda. Now, where I have difficulties with this budget is that I think it's pretty clear that the UK Government's growth agenda is not sufficient to mitigate the impact of being outside of the European single market. We've seen the impact of Brexit on our economy, we've seen the impact of Brexit on our ability to spend.”
“We had a good conversation yesterday on this through the statement, and I think there was wide agreement from all parts of the Chamber that the financial framework that we have at the moment is failing Wales. Wales is uniquely badly served by the Barnett formula and by the current financial framework. The Welsh Government has a very clear policy on this, so how now are we going to take this forward? The Cabinet Secretary for finance has spoken about this being a two-stage budget process, so will the Welsh Government, for example, be publishing a White Paper on these matters to enable this Parliament to debate and discuss how the Welsh Government intends to take forward reform of the financial framework? The second question I have for the Welsh Government is: is there a reform agenda for public services?”
“I would advise the Conservatives to read some economic texts and not just their press releases. They really would learn far more, because we have seen poor investment in the public realm and we've seen people becoming poorer as a consequence of Conservative Government policy, not as a side effect, but as a consequence of policy. But the Welsh Government also has to respond to these challenges, and my questions today are towards the Welsh Government, since we are having this debate in the Welsh Parliament, and I think it's important that we do have this conversation here. I would like to understand how the Welsh Government will take forward issues around the financial framework.”
“I very much agree that we should be investing in people and investing in public services. You can't come here—I'll be absolutely clear to the Conservatives—you can't come here every Wednesday afternoon demanding money be spent on anywhere under the sun and then object to taxes. You simply can't do it, and you're not credible when you do so. And the context for this—[ Interruption .] No, I won't take another one yet. Don't worry, I'm going to say something that is going to provoke you soon—you can have an intervention then, right? The reality, and the context that this budget was set in, is a context of economic stagnation for a decade and a half. Austerity failed the United Kingdom and Brexit has made austerity far worse. You can look at the numbers.”
“I think it's really important that we have this debate because the budget is the most political thing that we do in the year, because it's where we say and where we state our priorities—what is important to us, what is important to us as a Parliament and what is important to us as a Government, where we are going to invest and where we are not going to invest, how we are going to raise our funds, and from who and how. It's the most political thing that we do because it speaks to us of our values and our priorities. And I very much, like the previous speaker, welcome the priorities that have been set out in this budget by Rachel Reeves. I welcome that the investment in—[ Interruption .] I'll take the intervention, but I very much welcome the investment in schools, which the Member has been calling for for the last four years.”
“I'm interested that you make that point, because I wrote to Network Rail, of course, when the UK Government, the Conservative UK Government, made an announcement of £1 billion to be spent on the electrification of the north Wales main line, and what Network Rail told me was that no money existed, there was no budget, the UK Government hadn't instructed them to do any design work and nothing had been done on it for over a decade.”
“With the needs-based formula now being introduced in Northern Ireland, it is clear that Wales is in a uniquely disadvantaged position in the United Kingdom when it comes to the allocation and the redistribution of funding across the UK. It is therefore essential to the future of our people, our communities, our public services and our economy that we have a needs-based formula that ensures that Wales has the funds that it needs and requires—”
“I agree very much with the analysis of the Cabinet Secretary. This is part 1 of a budget process that marks the end of austerity, and I think it will be welcomed on most sides of the Chamber. We've seen the damage that Brexit and austerity have done to our economy and to our communities, and the Conservatives should be apologising for that. I particularly welcome the coal tips restoration funding, which the Cabinet Secretary has already referred to, and like by him, the miners' pension scheme is absolutely important and is to be welcomed by everybody. What I hope now is that we can start to debate part 2 of this budget process, and for me, the financial framework is the absolute centre of that debate and discussion.”
“That inequality, which the Conservatives are all in favour of, of course, is the consequence of a failed settlement that does not provide the powers to the Welsh Government and the oversight to this Parliament and the budget required to deliver the sorts of rail services that we want to see. So, yes, I will vote this afternoon with a skip in my stride to vote for the—[ Interruption .]—and a happy heart to vote—[ Interruption .]—to vote, to vote for the—[ Interruption .]—to vote to take the railways out of private ownership after the disaster of the last few decades. But I want to vote again—I want to vote again—to ensure that this place has the powers it requires and the powers it needs, and the Government has the budget it has a right to to deliver the services that all our constituents have the right to expect.”
“But I’ll say this, Cabinet Secretary: all of us here, even perhaps some Conservatives, want to see greater investment in Welsh rail and want to see greater investment in Welsh rail services. But I see the failure of the current settlement in my own constituency. On the Rhymney side, we have the investment that’s taking place from the Welsh Government—electrified railways, four trains an hour. On the Ebbw Vale side, you see what we currently have and the current broken structure we have, with the Welsh Government having to loan money to Blaenau Gwent council to invest in the maximum of two trains an hour. That is an inequality that my constituents should not have to endure.”
“So, I’m really pleased to see this legislative consent motion and I’ll be pleased to vote for it later this afternoon, to ensure that the public takes over the railways and delivers railway investment, as we’ve seen up and down the continent, as we’ve seen elsewhere. That is what all of us want to see. And in delivering that investment, I want to say this to the Cabinet Secretary as well: we need to ensure that a partnership is a real partnership. And that means having powers in this place, and that means having funding available to this Government. What we currently have is none of those things, because you can only have a partnership if you have a partnership of equals, and that doesn’t exist in the current arrangements. This Act of the UK Parliament is not designed to address those issues, I recognise that.”
“I think if anybody was in any doubt as to voting for this legislative consent motion this afternoon, having listened to the Conservative spokesperson, then that doubt has vanished. The ideological drive and attack on the public sector—the Conservatives seem content for every Government to own our railways except our own. What we’re doing is sending money overseas and not investing that money in our communities. Let me tell you—and this is why you haven’t got any MPs left in Wales, by the way—there is nobody in this country who is convinced by the arguments of the Conservative Party that private ownership has delivered great railways across either Wales or anywhere else. Nobody believes you. And nobody believes you because we’ve travelled on those trains, we’ve seen what privatisation has delivered.”
“Where the Government sees an opportunity and believes that they can legislate, there would be goodwill, I believe, on all sides of this Chamber if the Government were to seek to use this Parliament to deliver that legislation, rather than a consent motion to avoid all scrutiny and send it up the M4.”
“Certainly, I think there are many of us on all sides of the Chamber who, whilst we would agree with the legislation the Government would seek to enact, would want that legislation to go through this Parliament and not through the UK Parliament in Westminster to achieve its objectives. Would it be possible, therefore, for the Counsel General to give this some consideration, some thought, so that we can avoid clashes and conflicts in this Chamber and in committees, and ensure that we have a process and a structure in place that goes beyond what is in place at present?”
“I'm grateful to the Counsel General for that response. She and I have had a number of what I think she would call 'spirited conversations' on these matters over the years. It's entirely natural and to be expected that, with a Labour Government now in the United Kingdom, there could be a demand for more legislative consent motions, because there is large-scale agreement in terms of values, approaches and priorities between the two Governments. So, delivering legislation through a legislative consent motion could become an easier option, if you like, for this Government. But it would, of course, have the impact of bypassing this Parliament and bypassing Welsh democracy, and that is really difficult for all of us.”
“Does that exist today? Is there a machinery within Government within which you will work? Is there a structure within which you will work? And what issues can we question you on in terms of the delivery of Government objectives, if the individual Ministers are accountable for delivering their own objectives?”
“I'm grateful to the Counsel General for that response. I should say how pleased I was to see her appointment as well. The burden of my question was really that a Minister for Delivery, I think, is a very, very good thing, but what does that Minister do and how do they do it, is really what I'm asking here. Since you've clarified in that answer that we will be holding Cabinet Secretaries and Ministers to account for delivering on the objectives that have been set for them by the First Minister, then my question to you is: how then do we hold you to account? And how then do we question how you are delivering your responsibilities as the Minister for Delivery? For instance, certainly when I served in Carwyn Jones's Cabinet, there was a delivery unit and that worked with all Ministers seeking to help deliver policy objectives.”
“I'm grateful to you, Deputy Presiding Officer. During questions, at least two Conservative Members raised issues with the First Minister, where they clearly have a personal interest. No personal interest was declared, as Standing Orders and the code of conduct demand. I therefore ask for a ruling.”
“I'd like to invite the First Minister to Blaenau Gwent to discuss how we can invest that funding in the economic future of the Heads of the Valleys and, in doing so, I'd like to discuss with the First Minister how we can invest in building business units and industrial units across the A465, now dualled by this Government, and ensure that we can create jobs and work in the Heads of the Valleys.”
“I'm grateful, Deputy Presiding Officer. I'm sure the First Minister agrees with me that we don't need lectures from fans of Liz Truss when it comes to debating these matters. The people of Blaenau Gwent welcomed the budget last week, and welcomed many of the provisions that were contained in it. One of those provisions is, of course, ensuring that future money that we lost through Brexit is delivered back to this place and then delivered to Blaenau Gwent.”