Jenny Rathbone
Welsh Labour · Wales
“Happily, only two homes in Cardiff seem to have been flooded according to your statement, but we have to remember that these extreme events are going to go on occurring because that's what climate change means.”
“And you can see the consequences all over Cardiff because all the drainage systems are completely overwhelmed at the moment. I'll see tonight whether it's got any better, but there's more rain predicted.”
“Thank you very much for all the hard work that you and all of the other stakeholders have done in bringing the scheme this far. We absolutely have to take food security seriously. It's not the food security that James Evans has in mind, as I'm not sure we're ever going to run out of enough meat to feed the people of Wales.”
“Even if you haven't got three acres, so long as you are working 550 hours a year, that enables start-up horticulturalists to get going, like the Langtons, who started growing microgreens in their back bedroom, moved on to 3 acres of land near Crickhowell, and now have, I think, 60 acres of land in Ceredigion, including 250 fruit trees.”
“Secondly, I have a constituent who's an expert patient in kidney stones, because he suffered from them for nearly 60 years, and he has analysed the waiting lists and is asking, given that we've had huge improvements in diagnosis of kidney stones, both through the scanning of what's going on inside your body as well as the use of this lith…”
“Thank you, First Minister. I was very pleased to sponsor the Royal College of Psychiatrists event in the Senedd last Wednesday, as I was able to meet Katie Fergus, a consultant in rehabilitation psychiatry. She's got four in-patient rehab wards at Llandough hospital, but there is a long waiting list.”
The complete record
Every one of 41 lines we hold for Jenny Rathbone, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account.
“And you can see the consequences all over Cardiff because all the drainage systems are completely overwhelmed at the moment. I'll see tonight whether it's got any better, but there's more rain predicted. So, given Julie James's enthusiasm for reminding us all that you need planning permission to concrete over your garden into a parking lot, I wondered if you would consider writing to all local authorities to get them to enforce that because, at the moment, I'm pretty certain that a lot of people are doing it and nobody is saying, 'You can't be doing that because you are going to impact on all of us'. Because we've all got things we need to do and we all need to make more room for the rainwater, have water butts and maybe have competitions like they had in Holland to have tile whipping—”
“Happily, only two homes in Cardiff seem to have been flooded according to your statement, but we have to remember that these extreme events are going to go on occurring because that's what climate change means. We had a serious near miss in January 2023 when the Roath brook nearly overtopped, and that would have meant hundreds of homes being flooded, and it was only because there wasn't debris blocking the way that that didn't happen. Even in Holland, where floods are built into historic memories, for obvious reasons, only 10 per cent of people's gardens are actually dedicated to greenery and absorbing of the rainwater. It's supposed to be 80 per cent. And it recalls for me what Julie James is saying, that if people concrete over their gardens, that is then not available to absorb the rainwater.”
“Even if you haven't got three acres, so long as you are working 550 hours a year, that enables start-up horticulturalists to get going, like the Langtons, who started growing microgreens in their back bedroom, moved on to 3 acres of land near Crickhowell, and now have, I think, 60 acres of land in Ceredigion, including 250 fruit trees. So, when you're talking about trees with stakeholders, please don't forget that orchards are a really important source of food, as well as providing all the other benefits of trees in terms of cover for animals. I just wondered what your strategy is for growing horticulture in this country, so that we can meet the demand that is widespread across Wales.”
“Thank you very much for all the hard work that you and all of the other stakeholders have done in bringing the scheme this far. We absolutely have to take food security seriously. It's not the food security that James Evans has in mind, as I'm not sure we're ever going to run out of enough meat to feed the people of Wales. It's fruit and vegetables that we have to worry about. I think that, with the rise in protectionism and the disruption caused by extreme weather, which we have seen this weekend, it means that the just-in-time procurement model simply doesn't work any longer. As, increasingly, children are demanding Welsh fruit and vegetables in their school meals, I was very pleased to see that you've got the—.”
“So, can you ask your new advisory group, chaired by Sir David Sloman, to look at the pathways for treatment of kidney stones to see whether Cardiff and the Vale are doing it as dinosaurs, and whether there are better ways of doing it?”
“Secondly, I have a constituent who's an expert patient in kidney stones, because he suffered from them for nearly 60 years, and he has analysed the waiting lists and is asking, given that we've had huge improvements in diagnosis of kidney stones, both through the scanning of what's going on inside your body as well as the use of this lithotripsy, which is high-energy shocks, which can be done on an out-patient basis—. He's therefore asking, if it's possible for the GP to order an x-ray, why does he have to see a neurologist before he can get to have a scan, and then go back and see the urologist again? Because you presumably don't need to be a consultant urologist to actually do this lithotripsy.”
“Yesterday I attended the half-day seminar held by Deep End, and a big shout-out to Dr Jonny Currie of the Ringland practice in Newport. I was very interested to hear Dr Rowena Christmas, who's chair of the Royal College of General Practitioners Cymru, say that it's much cheaper to do vasectomies in primary care, and obviously it's much easier for people to get to, certainly where my son-in-law had it. So, I want to know how many vasectomies have been done in primary care in Cardiff and the Vale. I don't expect you to have the answer right now, but it's a really important question because it's cheaper and it's quicker.”
“So, I wondered what strategies the Welsh Government expects health boards to have to make acute in-patient psychiatric care to be, like homelessness, brief, infrequent and never repeated, by providing proper step-down support to help the journey to full recovery.”
“Thank you, First Minister. I was very pleased to sponsor the Royal College of Psychiatrists event in the Senedd last Wednesday, as I was able to meet Katie Fergus, a consultant in rehabilitation psychiatry. She's got four in-patient rehab wards at Llandough hospital, but there is a long waiting list. That explains why, in far too many cases, people are discharged from acute mental health wards without any community back-up or any other service to enable them to adjust to going home. Often, they unfortunately end up in hospital. She explained to me that, actually, many health boards are actually reducing their rehab wards, and that that is of concern.”
“Because it really is ridiculous that we're using drinking water for flushing the toilet, and then we don't even have enough rain water harvested to water the gardens, where drinking water is not the best option. So, we've really got to think quite differently in relation to reduce, reuse, recycle and how we're going to do that. Is it just money, or is it the lack of imagination and urgency going into this?”
“Well, my office, my home and those of most of my constituents will be underwater unless we all change our ways. So, I wanted to ask you about the Greener Grangetown project, because here we've got a really good example of sustainable urban drainage, which has saved huge amounts of rain water going into the sewage system, saving money on energy, and obviously improving the environment. So, I want to explore not just why we don't have more Greener Grangetown-type systems across the city, where we do know that there's already flooding going on, as already referred to by Rhys ab Owen, but also how we are going to tap into the rain water system, and indeed where we wash our hands, to be used for flushing the toilet.”
“It's open to anybody in Cardiff aged 11 to 18, between 3 p.m. and 9 p.m. on weekdays and 12 p.m. to 6 p.m. at the weekends. You can just turn up and it’s very friendly, nobody’s going to insist that you have to disclose, they wait for you to be ready to speak. So, that’s a fantastic service. I’d just like to know what you plan to do about the 24 schools that still haven’t got a well-being policy. Because this idea that it only relates to schools where a significant number of people are in poverty is not the case; it’s in all schools. Therefore, all schools need to have a strategy for improving the well-being and the sense of community in all our schools.”
“Thank you very much, and thank you very much, Cabinet Secretary, for your really long commitment to this issue. I think that’s really appreciated, and the investment you’re making in trying to get to the heart of the matter. I want to also pay tribute to all those who are combating the bullying, racism and LGBTphobia that goes on in schools, as it does in the rest of society, because the work they do is so appreciated. In some schools, somebody being bullied may hesitate to seek help from that school in case it provokes further bullying. They don’t want to be seen going into the headteacher’s office or that of some senior person. I’d really like to highlight my appreciation for the Hangout in Cardiff city centre, which is funded by Cardiff and Vale health board and delivered by Platfform, a mental health charity.”
“I wondered if we can have a statement from the culture Minister, who I know is absolutely passionate about grass-roots football, about what the Welsh Government can do, working with these grass-roots football organisations, as well as the FAW, to protect referees and try and double down on abuse to ensure that grass-roots football can continue to flourish.”
“The one incident in St Mellons in Cardiff led to a strike by these referees earlier this month in protest at the really significant number of attacks they get. One in four referees have suffered physical abuse and nearly nine in 10 have suffered verbal abuse. These people don't do it for the money; they do it for the love of the game, so it really is depressing that, instead of increasing the opportunities for playing outdoor sports, we seem to be shrinking those opportunities because of the poor behaviour of some people.”
“Just following on from your remarks to Llyr Gruffydd about the Wampís Nation delegation that was received by various people, I just wanted to celebrate the Creative for Climate Justice exhibition, which has been supported by CAFOD, Christian Aid, Oxfam and Send My Friend to School, and the passion with which these pupils explained why climate justice was so important, and the excellent presentational skills they had, which do us all credit. They really do get it, and it's really good that they're making this contribution to Climate Week, to coincide with COP29. On a less optimistic note, I just wanted to raise my concern about the increasing number of attacks on grass-roots football referees.”
“Okay. It's interesting that you include Ynni Cymru, and that's great. But we have to recognise that the public is very wary of renewable energy, even though it's much cheaper than gas. So, in my view, the public sector needs to lead the way on demonstrating just how fantastic the benefits are. Unfortunately, there just are a few examples of the excellent work done by Morriston Hospital and its solar farm, which is generating at least a third of its energy and saving them over £2 million already. All public sector buildings have been given a target of net zero by 2030. Talking to public sector organisations, you'd think they weren't even aware of it. So, how is Trydan Gwyrdd Cymru going to give greater urgency to the public sector to embrace modern technology, reduce their energy bills and meet their net-zero carbon targets?”
“I think the issue was that, the people serving the poorest communities, there are fewer of them, serving people with much greater need.”
“So, I think there's a great deal more that we can do on this, and we need to come back to this and have a fuller debate, which we can't do within this short time.”
“Those having to serve the populations with the biggest health challenges, who are getting sicker earlier, with less health literacy, have fewer people. I very much welcome the fact that the Petitions Committee is going to look further at this, because I think there's a great deal more that we need to say about this. We clearly need to have a lot more multidisciplinary working, because there simply aren't enough GPs or, indeed, nurses to go around. We have to think outside the box. We need to grow our own. We need to recruit from our own communities, rather than bringing in people from outside, and give them recruitment and retention pathways so that they are staying in the communities that they have grown up in and are very much less likely to leave.”
“I think this is a very welcome petition, because all health boards need to spend more money and energy and time on primary care. I just want to have a quick look at some of the social justice issues involved in this, because there are 389 practices in Wales, unless one or two have closed in the meanwhile, but the Deep End project is looking at those serving the super-output areas of deprivation, and they have on average 30 per cent more patients per GP than those in the 100 least deprived practices. These are really important figures. If you look at those who are delivering healthcare as a whole—so not just the doctors but all the other allied professionals—there's an even more stark difference.”
“So, I think the removal of the right to appeal is a really serious matter, because mistakes do get made, as are outlined in our report, and I think it's really important that we now have a really good relationship with the UK Government because it gives us the ability to raise matters and say, 'This doesn't feel right.' And we have to counter the anti-immigration discourse that's going on, with that wonderful exhibition that is still available at the foot of the Senedd steps, which I believe Seema Malhotra visited. It's fantastic that she came here and met so many of the relevant people on this. We need to continue to champion the rights of European citizens to remain here and to continue to be valuable members of our community.”
“But we have an obligation to deliver for people who are otherwise going to suffer injustices, and also to thank all the people who continue to fight on behalf of European citizens to ensure that they're not suffering injustice: Travelling Ahead, Settled, the3million, the people who are part of the citizens' forum of the IMA. These are people who are committed to ensuring that all European citizens are given the justice they deserve. And we all have to ensure that when we are talking to people, we don't hold back in asking them, 'Did you apply?', 'Have you got settled status?' It's only a quick conversation, but it's really important, and I'm fully aware that this is a question that I need to continue to ask of my neighbours who are quite elderly, and it may impact on their children too.”
“I absolutely agree with you, and I see the Cabinet Secretary nodding, and I'm sure that we'll be able to work together on that. It's very good to have the support of Mike Hedges in his capacity as Chair of the LJC and indeed Delyth Jewell of the culture committee, which has international relations in its remit. I think it's so important that we see this in the round, and you're quite right to highlight the maps, the graphics, and the data that have been compiled by our Research Service and our clerks, because this is crucial to understand what is a really, really complicated story, actually. That is why we absolutely have to continue talking about these matters. Jane Dodds highlighted that there was a promise made in 2016, amongst so many promises—what about that £230 million a week or whatever for the NHS?”
“Well, probably the reverse has also taken place. Some people have quite erroneously been charged for health services that they absolutely—. About 141,000 were being charged for NHS treatment, and we were very pleased that, when we wrote to the Cabinet Secretary, she went around every single one of the health boards to ensure that nobody in Wales was charged, or if they were, the money was handed back. So, that is very important. But it just highlights how it is not possible to say, 'This is a perfect system and it'll all be sorted out.' I suppose one of the things that I didn't mention in my earlier remarks is the removal of the right to appeal.”
“And as Sioned Williams listed, there are so many people who are going to have difficulty: those with mental illness; those who've been subject to slavery and domestic abuse. These are not people who can go down the road to a lawyer and say, 'Give me a hand filling in this application.' And what is the most scary thing is that this isn't just about the rights of the European citizen and their ability to stay in this country, but also the rights of their children to stay in this country, which they may be completely oblivious of. We also, in our report, highlight some of the digital errors that have already occurred, which are bound to occur in a digital-only system, particularly when it's a pilot. So, for example, some people have been refused status and have been marked down as having had accepted status.”
“Thank you very much. It's good to know that Joel James, in his role as a councillor, was promoting the EUSS scheme, and that's something that all councillors and, indeed, Senedd Members and MPs should have been doing. We have to remind ourselves that not all people read newspapers, not all people have smartphones, and 25 per cent of the population have considerable literacy challenges. So, understanding about the need to apply for something that you never ever thought you would have to do, if you got here in the 1950s and 1960s, well before we joined the European Union, that is why it has proved so difficult to be able to say with certainty that everybody is covered by this.”
“That includes Jane Hutt, the Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice, and the Welsh Government, who have consistently provided funds to enable organisations to support Members through this very, very difficult process for some people. So, we need to raise awareness of the need to apply, as Members, as a committee and as a Senedd. We welcome the Welsh Government's statements of support for EU citizens and the steps taken to help, such as regularly renewing the funding for these specialist advice services. But we called this debate for one main reason, and that's to ask all Members and the Senedd collectively to do more to highlight the issue in our communities, which will create another Windrush, which is a denial of justice and an abuse of justice, and that is what we must avoid, otherwise we will be talking about this in 20, 30 years' time.”
“I think, in particular, time and time again we've heard how this presents challenges, not just for those who need to be applying today, especially the most vulnerable in our society: children and young people; older people; children in care or who are looked after; the Roma community who don't speak either English or Welsh or any of the languages that are normally common in this country and they don't have the literacy levels to read any information; people who are homeless; victims of domestic abuse; victims of trafficking. This is a particularly concerning problem for those who may have children in this country whose own status will be affected if these individuals do not apply. So, we applaud the efforts of those who work tirelessly to support EU citizens to stay here in Wales, their home.”
“We heard how some landlords, employers, local authorities and statutory services have denied people services because they're risk averse to falling foul of the process, and refuse citizens their entitlement because they don't understand the nuances of how they get to check. Failure to obtain status, as I said earlier, is really serious and can even lead to deportation, even for people who have got generations of family living in this country.”
“Late applications are now being subject to narrow criteria and a higher evidence threshold is required. The whole scheme is becoming disproportionately complicated. Reports are intensifying that new and troubling outcomes are occurring, not least because the EUSS is a digital-only system, and it's the first that's being trialled as a guinea pig in the UK. Any digital-only scheme will confront challenges of digital literacy, digital exclusion and errors, and we've seen all of those in this situation. Those with the required proof of residency and language skills, like members of my family, have found applying to the EUSS to be a straightforward process, but for others that is just not the case. Even with status, how do you prove it when the whole thing is digitised?”
“The UK Government decided not to appeal, and in July 2023 announced that all these citizens would have their status rolled over by two years and that from the current year, 2024, people would automatically get upgraded to settled status on the basis of automated checks. How anybody is supposed to track exactly what their status is is something that needs to be clarified, because unless the citizen's digital footprint is available, they can be told they've got to apply again. So, for example, unless you pay taxes or receive benefits, you may simply not be able, online, to prove that you have been here for the requisite five years. They may be automatically upgraded to settled status by the expiry date, but they may not, and some will need to apply for a second time.”
“Not unreasonably, if the Home Office granted someone definite leave to remain well before we joined the European Union, anyone who is not well informed on the momentous decision to leave the EU after nearly 40 years might easily think this process doesn't apply to them. This has all the hallmarks of a second Windrush. Anyone who comes into contact with the state who should have applied has a mere 28 days to submit an application, and in the meantime can be denied access to the NHS, to social care, lose their job, and, in the worst-case scenarios, can be deported. There are over 40,000 citizens in Wales with pre-settled status, in limbo land effectively. The IMA achieved a landmark legal victory in December 2022 when the High Court ruled it was illegal to require those with pre-settled status to reapply.”
“The cause of this committee's concerns are all the other people who've only been given temporary leave to remain, refused leave to remain, whose applications are pending, or who have yet to apply to remain in this country. I very much appreciate the work that the IMA has done with public bodies to help them identify vulnerable people who failed to apply by the original deadline—for example, care-experienced children; care leavers; frail, elderly people who need help with the application process. Between 500 and 800 new applications have been submitted from people in Wales every month for the last three years or more, and we really don't know how many more people may be affected.”
“EU citizens who lived in Wales before Brexit were supposed to apply to stay here by the end of June 2021. As you'll recall, that was just as the sixth Senedd committees were being set up. The committee I chair has been monitoring the quarterly statistics published by the UK Government since 2021 and extracting the figures that apply to Wales. Originally, it was estimated that 95,000 citizens would need to apply in Wales, but that was a guess. How many mainly vulnerable people have missed out on their entitlement is a work in progress. Total applications of 125,000 to date are already significantly higher than that estimate. Of these, over 86,000 have been granted the permanent right to remain. We welcome them.”
“I'd also like to welcome members of the independent monitoring authority, the citizens' rights watchdog established under the withdrawal agreement—set up by, but independent of, the UK Government—with whom the committee has worked since it was established. You are all very welcome to hear this debate.”
“Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. The Equality and Social Justice Committee called this debate to draw the attention of all Members to the evidence our committee has gathered about the EU settlement scheme, both in a report we published in April and further evidence we gathered in the last few months, which are causes for concern. I thank all the people who contributed to our work, some of whom are in the gallery today. First of all, there's the staff from Settled, a charity supporting European citizens to navigate their way through the minefield created by the UK withdrawal from the EU, which is now focusing on supporting those making late applications who've had their applications refused, as well as trying to find people unaware or too scared to apply.”
“And I think that there’s a disconnect between environmental health and the licensing system, because environmental health needs to be reporting to Rent Smart Wales that they’ve had this problem with the licensee and, therefore, there needs to be a massive question mark over it. Rent Smart Wales just seem to lack the teeth that we need to make the licensing system have more effect.”
“Unfortunately, rogue landlords are probably not a rarity in Cardiff, which they may well be in Pembrokeshire and Carmarthenshire—I hope so. But I’ve got a tenant who has been living in this property for quite a long time with a young child, and we all know how difficult it can be to get a tenancy when you’ve got a child. And they’ve just been suffering for years and years from the landlord refusing to do the necessary repairs. They’ve now been issued with a compulsory improvement order by environmental health, but, frankly, they should have been taken out long before now, because this landlord owns the majority of the flats in this large block and this is not the first situation of this kind that I have experienced.”
“Because what we did discover was that there is still a great deal of work to do on improving anti-racism within the NHS. It's much easier in schools, isn't it, because where you've got good leadership, headteachers ensure that racist behaviour is dealt with appropriately. It's much more difficult in an NHS environment, which every member of the public is able to access, based on their health need. We need to ensure that racist behaviour against staff is challenged. So, I welcome the goals that you've set, particularly for the nation of sanctuary, Gypsies and Travellers and the criminal justice cross-cutting themes, because this is a very complex thing and I welcome very much the words that you have said today and look forward to working with you further.”
“Thank you very much indeed and thank you very much for this refreshed report, which looks like a really useful document for being able to track and measure the extent of our progress on what is an extraordinarily challenging thing to do. As you say, it requires a long-term commitment to systematic and cultural change, so the Welsh Government really is making a bold pledge to deliver an anti-racist Wales by 2030, which is really only a very few years down the line. I first of all want to just pay tribute to the role of Altaf Hussain, who I'm sorry to say has left the Chamber temporarily. He was a really important part of the six people who wrote the 'Action, not words: towards an anti-racist Wales by 2030' report, particularly with his lived experience of being a doctor within the NHS for so many years.”