Mark Drakeford
Welsh Labour · Wales
“Well, Dirprwy Lywydd, the Member can never see a top without wanting to go over it. And she, as usual, didn’t disappoint us this afternoon. Her conspiracy-minded ideas of how a visitor levy came about wouldn’t bear any examination.”
“I agree entirely with the points that Mike Hedges makes, Llywydd, and it’s not just that I agree with him, but the research published as part of the preparation of the Bill, independent research by Bangor University that looks at the experience of visitor levies introduced elsewhere, bears out exactly what Mike Hedges says.”
“I'd just say to Darren Millar that there are many causes that we talk about on the floor of this Senedd where anger is a justified response, but a modest tourism levy is not one of them.”
“The Bill does exactly what I set out in my introduction, Dirprwy Lywydd. It offers local authorities a permissive power that they can draw down when they make an assessment that this would be the right thing to do in their local circumstances.”
“I thank Joyce Watson, Dirprwy Lywydd. I take what she says particularly seriously on this Bill, given her own direct experience of working and living in a high-impact tourism part of Wales. I thought she captured very well indeed that sense of proportion that has been very absent in some other contributions here this afternoon.”
“The law will be clear, it will tell them the things for which they are able to use funds raised through the visitor levy, and there will be a reporting mechanism through which they can be held to account. That will, I think, ensure that they do just as we would expect. And, in the end, they face their electors, as we do here.”
The complete record
Every one of 118 lines we hold for Mark Drakeford, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 1 of 3.
“What this Bill does in its very modest way is to allow local authorities to collect that small contribution—cheaper, as Joyce Watson said, than a cup of coffee—towards maintaining the things that have attracted them to that area in the first place. I thank Joyce for the way in which she captured the essence of this Bill.”
“I thank Joyce Watson, Dirprwy Lywydd. I take what she says particularly seriously on this Bill, given her own direct experience of working and living in a high-impact tourism part of Wales. I thought she captured very well indeed that sense of proportion that has been very absent in some other contributions here this afternoon. Of course visitors are welcome to Wales. The Bill is designed to make them even more welcome in the future. What do those visitors expect when they come to see the beautiful country that we are so lucky to live in? They expect beaches to be clean, they expect footpaths and trails to be properly maintained, they want to be able to use the visitor centre, if it rains they want to be able to go to the leisure centre locally as well.”
“Diolch yn fawr i Siân Gwenllian hefyd, Dirprwy Lywydd. Dwi'n cytuno, wrth gwrs, gyda hi: pwrpas y Bil yw gwella profiadau ymwelwyr, ond hefyd gwella bywydau pobl leol. Diolch iddi hi am beth ddywedodd hi am bwysigrwydd y rhestr. Mae'r rhestr yn angenrheidiol ar gyfer yr ail Fil, am y pwrpasau y mae Siân Gwenllian wedi cyfeirio atynt. Mae Gweinidogion a swyddogion yn gweithio'n galed ar yr ail Fil. Rydyn ni'n cwrdd â'n gilydd bron bob wythnos nawr i gytuno ar y manylion yn yr ail Fil. Dydy'r dyddiadur ddim o fy mlaen i y prynhawn yma, Dirprwy Lywydd, ond, yn y flwyddyn nesaf, bydd yr ail Fil yn dod o flaen y Senedd am y pwrpasau y mae Siân Gwenllian wedi eu hesbonio y prynhawn yma.”
“You said exactly that. You said that people who visit areas should not make a contribution to the cost of the services that they rely on. Mountain rescue services, very clearly, very often go out to rescue people who are visiting those areas. Is it unfair, Dirprwy Lywydd, that those visitors should make a very modest contribution indeed to the costs of providing the service, which Sam quite rightly said was struggling to be funded for what they do?”
“I listened carefully earlier this afternoon to an important contribution from another north Wales Member, Sam, when he talked about outdoor safety and mountain rescue. He pointed out that those organisations are very short of funds. In your view of the world, Janet, all the costs of mountain rescue and other facilities that are offered to tourists should be borne by people who live in those areas, but those people who visit them, those people who need—”
“Well, Dirprwy Lywydd, the Member can never see a top without wanting to go over it. And she, as usual, didn’t disappoint us this afternoon. Her conspiracy-minded ideas of how a visitor levy came about wouldn’t bear any examination. And let me give her an assurance that there are safeguards in the Bill so people who are placed in accommodation because of domestic abuse will not pay a visitor levy. So, let me set her mind at rest on that. Surely the most important point Janet Finch-Saunders made was the first one. We are sent here by those whom we represent, and, believe me, the people who live in areas that have large numbers of tourists visiting them are very clearly in support of this Bill. If you were speaking on behalf of your residents, rather than your visitors, then there is no doubt you would be in favour of this Bill.”
“The Bill will allow local authorities to reinvest, exactly as Alun Davies said, in circumstances and facilities that are attractive to visitors, but that allow those communities to go on being places that have a character of their own, and it’s that character that brings other people to visit them.”
“I thank Alun Davies for those important points, Llywydd. He's absolutely right: the purpose of the Bill is that any funds raised through a visitor levy must be retained and reinvested in those communities, and they must be reinvested in creating the circumstances that make those places attractive. For example, the Bill makes reference directly to supporting the Welsh language. We know that some of the highest concentrations of tourism happen in the parts of Wales where the language is at its strongest. One of the reasons people come to Wales and visit those communities is because they want to be somewhere with that particular cultural sense of place and purpose.”
“A dwi'n siŵr, trwy'r broses o graffu ar y Bil, y bydd syniadau fel yna yn gallu dod i wyneb y ddadl, a dwi'n hollol hapus i'w hystyried nhw pan fyddan nhw'n codi fel yna.”
“Dirprwy Lywydd, diolch yn fawr i Cefin Campbell a diolch i Cefin am y gwaith roedd e wedi'i wneud o dan do'r gwaith a oedd yn mynd ymlaen rhwng y Llywodraeth a Phlaid Cymru, a diolch iddo am beth ddywedodd e am y gwaith caled mae swyddogion wedi'i wneud. Fel y dywedais i wrth Darren Millar, dwi'n agored i unrhyw ddadl resymol i wella'r Bil. Dwi ddim wedi gweld unrhyw Fil sydd wedi dod o flaen y Senedd sydd ddim wedi cael ei wella trwy'r broses o graffu. Dwi'n hollol hapus i edrych gyda'r pwyllgorau ar sut y gallwn ni fod yn glir y bydd llais busnesau yn cael ei glywed pan fydd yr awdurdodau lleol yn gwneud y penderfyniad am sut i wario'r arian maen nhw'n ei gasglu trwy'r ardoll.”
“I'd just say to Darren Millar that there are many causes that we talk about on the floor of this Senedd where anger is a justified response, but a modest tourism levy is not one of them. Just in a very basic sense of proportion, the things that we talk about here that genuinely ought to be a source of anger, asking somebody to pay 75p a night to come and stay in Wales is not one of them. I'd much rather have a dialogue with him about sensible practical issues. I'm very happy to look at the point that he made about village halls. If we're going to make the tourism levy work, that's the conversation that's worth having. The other sorts of points he makes are so disproportionate to the modest measure in front of the Senedd that he ends up not being taken seriously when his other points are worth taking seriously.”
“And I think the points that Mike Hedges has made this afternoon, pointing to evidence elsewhere, shows how it can be made to be a success.”
“I agree entirely with the points that Mike Hedges makes, Llywydd, and it’s not just that I agree with him, but the research published as part of the preparation of the Bill, independent research by Bangor University that looks at the experience of visitor levies introduced elsewhere, bears out exactly what Mike Hedges says. There is no evidence that they act as a deterrent to the tourism industry, and there are countless examples of where a visitor levy produces funds that are reinvested in making sure that those places go on being attractive to visitors in the future. And that is what this Bill is designed to do. It is designed to allow local authorities to make sure that tourism, which is very important in those localities, goes on being sustainable on the one hand and successful on the other into the future.”
“And there have been many, many constructive conversations with the industry that have helped us to get the Bill to the position that is in today. As to the register, Dirprwy Lywydd, it will be public, it will be shared. The details are to be found in Part 3 of the Bill—that is the heart of the Bill. There are six separate Chapters involved in Part 3 of the Bill. They set out many of the details that Luke Fletcher has asked me about this afternoon.”
“The law will be clear, it will tell them the things for which they are able to use funds raised through the visitor levy, and there will be a reporting mechanism through which they can be held to account. That will, I think, ensure that they do just as we would expect. And, in the end, they face their electors, as we do here. They have democratic legitimacy of their own, and this Bill supports that by offering them a new opportunity that otherwise would not be available to them. We will continue to work with tourism businesses. As I said, I was pleased to meet with the forum today. Businesses recognise that, if a levy is to happen, then their efforts are best directed towards making the levy work for them.”
“He told me that he had previously been the mayor of Amsterdam, and that the single best decision he had ever made was to introduce a visitor levy to that city, and that he faced all the sorts of criticisms that we face here today, and that every one of those criticisms had turned out to be false. And I believe the same will be true here in Wales. The enforcement provisions of the Bill are also designed to be simple, and they're also designed to be based on a high-trust relationship with our local authorities. I simply don't accept the characterisation of local authorities as organisations that are always on the lookout for ways to get around the law.”
“Dirprwy Lywydd, I thank Luke Fletcher for those questions. He's right that the cost to visitors in this Bill is at the modest end of the spectrum, and deliberately at the modest end. Peter Fox referred to tax principles here in Wales. Our tax principles are that any form of levy of this sort should be clear, it should be stable and it should be simple. It should be easy to comply with. And that's why we've set the level of the visitor levy as we have. Dirprwy Lywydd, when Luke Fletcher mentioned Venice, I was reminded that I once had an opportunity to meet the finance Minister in the Dutch Government.”
“Not only is it a right cause, Dirprwy Lywydd, it’s a popular cause, particularly amongst those populations who, otherwise, are left to pick up all of those costs on behalf not just of residents, but everyone who visits as well.”
“But the irony of the Conservative Party position on the floor of this Senedd is that they believe that local people should bear all of the costs associated with tourism, and that visitors should bear none of them. And believe me, that is not a popular position, particularly among those populations who see the greatest impact of tourism in those communities. They believe, and we believe, that it is simply fair that people who visit an area and who use the facilities of that area, and who expect that those facilities will be kept in good order—that’s what draws them to those places in the first place—make some small, modest contribution to ensuring that those facilities can be there for the future.”
“If they decide to introduce a levy, they will have to keep the money raised in a separate account for all to see. They will have to report annually on how those funds are used for purposes that are set out in the face of the Bill. The Bill is clear: the funds used can only be used for purposes of destination management and improvement. I think that that provides local authorities with the right level of discretion without the risk of those funds being siphoned away for nothing to do with the costs associated with tourism and its promotion in the future. The Member said that many people across Wales will not want to support the Bill.”
“The Bill does exactly what I set out in my introduction, Dirprwy Lywydd. It offers local authorities a permissive power that they can draw down when they make an assessment that this would be the right thing to do in their local circumstances. I was surprised to hear Peter Fox’s characterisation of local authorities as organisations that clearly aren’t to be trusted. As a former leader of a local authority, that would not have been, I think, his viewpoint when he was a member of a local authority in Wales, and it’s not my view either. I think that the Bill strikes a proper balance. It provides safeguards on the face of the Bill. Local authorities will have to follow the procedures that I set out. They will have to consult their local populations and businesses.”
“Well, Dirprwy Lywydd, I do regret that attempt to catastrophise what is a modest measure that simply offers local authorities the opportunity to introduce a visitor levy where they choose to do so. I've sat through many lectures in this Chamber from the benches opposite about the need for us to devolve more powers and decision making locally, often portrayed here as an essential Conservative principle. Yet, offered an opportunity to do exactly that, we find that their reactionary tendencies very quickly overwhelm their principles. The Bill—”
“In participating local authorities, the costs of maintaining the public infrastructure and services that make Wales an attractive destination will be shared by all those who use them and who benefit from them. The considerable bulk of these costs will continue to be borne by local residents, but visitors will now also make a small but fair contribution to the development and preservation of the characteristics that drew them to those areas as visitors in the first place. In doing so, there will be a collective effort to secure the long-term sustainability of the tourism sector and its significance to the Welsh economy.”
“Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Yesterday, the Visitor Accommodation (Register and Levy) Etc. (Wales) Bill was laid in the Senedd. The Bill provides a permissive power to local authorities to decide whether or not they want to introduce a visitor levy in their local areas based on their local circumstances. Doing so fulfils a commitment in Welsh Labour’s manifesto, repeated in the programme for government and the co-operation agreement. The power is to be drawn down by participating councils where they wish to be enabled to raise a modest levy on visitors staying overnight in visitor accommodation. The levy is rooted in the principle of fairness.”
“There will be another long shopping list of all of the things that they would like to find money for, while they remain, as usual, entirely silent as to how that money can be found. Llywydd, I ask the Chamber to do the sensible thing: the thing that will be reflected in the lives of our fellow citizens. If you want to pay for things, you have to find the money to do so. That is what the Chancellor had to do. That is how we will get the money that will come to public services here in Wales. Vote against the motion, support the Labour amendment, and introduce some sense of proper economic management into our debates here on the floor of the Chamber.”
“I will explore, of course, with Treasury Ministers, the definition that the Treasury will use of public sector workers, because they too—. The cost of employers there, too, will be borne by the Treasury. The result of it all, Llywydd, is that this Welsh Government and this Senedd has £1.7 billion more to invest in public services than we would have had, had last March’s budget continued to be in place. Now, I have never argued—. Luke Fletcher said that that money would be transformational. I have never argued that, in a single budget, we could make up for all of the harm that had been done in 14 years. And, no doubt, Llywydd, opposition parties here will complain, when it comes to the budget, that the £1 billion extra that we have next year is not enough.”
“And, in doing so, as Hefin David suggested, the Chancellor also took a series of measures to offset the impact of employer national insurance rises on small employers by more than doubling the employment allowance. The Federation of Small Businesses said that this uplift in the employment allowance 'is very welcome, as it more than doubles from £5,000 to £10,500, which will shield the smallest employers from the jobs tax and is therefore a pro-jobs prioritisation in a tough Budget.' That is what the Federation of Small Businesses had to say. The truth of the matter is, Llywydd, that bills have to be paid, and the Chancellor made her decisions that the burden would fall where it can most be borne. I will be in the Treasury on Monday of next week.”
“Well, Llywydd, of course, I've understood that it's long been the policy of the Conservative Party here—we've heard it time and time again—that they didn't want to pay workers for the work that they do here in Wales. Complaints always from them that these were pay increases that ought not to have been implemented. What the OBR said was that there was £9 billion of a gap that even they weren't aware of, because the previous Government had not revealed information to them to allow them to make a proper assessment of the gap that existed. The Chancellor had to find the money, and she did so by returning national insurance broadly to where it had been as a share of GDP for 13 of the 14 Conservative years.”
“I thought it was brave of the leader of Plaid Cymru to recognise that his policies are generally referred to as fantasy economics, and much of what we heard from his benches went on to demonstrate exactly that. Now, Llywydd, the Chancellor found the public finances in a state, where the gap between what the previous Government had set in motion in spending terms and the amount of money that that Government was raising to cover that expenditure was £22 billion—”
“She wants to spend money on the things for which we have responsibility, and she wants to raise money in a way for which we have no responsibility at all. It is the politics of the playground, and we've seen it in virulent display here this afternoon. I thought it was brave—”
“—and the Member will, no doubt, understand that neither she nor I nor anyone in this Chamber has any power whatsoever to introduce a wealth tax—”
“I've subsequently written to the committee and confirmed the Welsh free ports subsidy control scheme has been reported on by the subsidy advice unit of the Competition and Markets Authority. That letter confirms that the CMA did not raise any specific concerns in relation to this relief. Both the Welsh and UK Governments have registered the subsidy control scheme. Subject to the Senedd's approval of the regulations, there will be a number of minor formatting issues that will be corrected prior to the regulations being made. Given the significance of the regulations to the free-port programme, I ask Members to approve the regulations this afternoon.”
“The Celtic free port special tax site is the first to be designated in Wales by the UK Government. Progress continues on the Ynys Môn free port. If the Senedd approve the regulations today, this relief will come into force on Tuesday 26 November. This will align with the UK Government's coming-into-force date of their special tax site designation regulations for the Celtic free port, meaning that all tax incentives are available on the same date. Public consultation took place on the draft regulations and indicated a strong degree of support for the proposals. I'm grateful, as ever, to the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee for their report. The committee raised a merits scrutiny point regarding the Welsh free ports subsidy control scheme.”
“Llywydd, diolch yn fawr. The regulations before the Senedd this afternoon are an integral part of the Welsh free-ports programme, designating special tax sites for relief. The regulations before the Senedd are subject to the draft affirmative procedure. They make amendments to the Land Transaction Tax and Anti-avoidance of Devolved Taxes (Wales) Act 2017, and the regulations introduce a relief from land transaction tax for qualifying transactions of land within a designated Welsh special tax site for a fixed period. This will include qualifying transactions within a designated free port and in designated investment zones in Wales. Each special tax site must be designated by the UK Government through regulations before the LTT special tax sites relief can become available on qualifying transactions.”
“So, rŷn ni wedi llwyddo, ond ddim wedi gwneud digon eto. Ond nawr, gyda'r teuluoedd sydd wedi cael y profiad yn barod, rŷn ni'n gallu defnyddio popeth y maen nhw wedi'i weld, a phopeth maen nhw wedi'i ddysgu, a'r profiadau maen nhw wedi'u cael, i berswadio pobl eraill.”
“Wel, Llywydd, dwi'n cytuno gyda Rhys ab Owen am y pwysigrwydd o dynnu mwy o blant mas o gymunedau BAME i mewn i addysg trwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg. Dwi'n cofio yn y flwyddyn gyntaf o Ysgol Treganna, doedd neb, neb o gwbl, o gymunedau lleiafrifoedd ethnig yn yr ysgol, a nawr mae'r ysgol yn hollol wahanol. Dwi eisiau gweld mwy o bosibiliadau i dynnu pobl i mewn, a'r ffordd i'w wneud e, dwi'n meddwl—un o'r ffyrdd i'w wneud e—yw trwy ddefnyddio'r profiadau rŷn ni wedi'u cael nawr yn barod gyda theuluoedd o'r cymunedau yna, i esbonio i bobl eraill— word of mouth , fel rŷn dweud yn Saesneg—a'u perswadio nhw fod plentyn sy'n mynd i ysgol lle mae'r addysg yn cael ei gyflwyno drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg wrth gwrs yn deall, ac yn dysgu Saesneg ar yr un pryd, ond nawr maen nhw'n gallu siarad Cymraeg hefyd.”
“Llywydd, yn ogystal â’n gwaith ledled Cymru i hyrwyddo’r Gymraeg i helpu sicrhau ei bod yn iaith i bawb, rydyn ni’n gofyn i bob awdurdod lleol roi gwybodaeth yn eu hadroddiadau blynyddol cynlluniau strategol Cymraeg mewn addysg ar sut maen nhw’n hyrwyddo’r Gymraeg ymysg cymunedau ethnig lleiafrifol.”
“A'm huchelgais i yw defnyddio'r profiadau rŷn ni wedi'u cael yn barod gydag Arfor 1 ac Arfor 2 i adeiladu ar rai o'r argymhellion yn yr adroddiad rŷn ni wedi'i weld yn barod a gafodd ei lansio yn yr Eisteddfod. Dwi'n edrych ymlaen at ddod yn ôl at lawr y Senedd yn y flwyddyn nesaf gydag ymatebion y Llywodraeth i bob un o'r argymhellion yn yr adroddiad cyntaf, ac ystyried y pwyntiau mae Siân Gwenllian wedi'u codi y prynhawn yma drwy'r broses o ymateb i'r argymhellion.”
“Diolch yn fawr i Siân Gwenllian. Llywydd, fe wrandawais i'n ofalus ar y pwyntiau roedd hi wedi'u gwneud yn y ddadl ddoe, a dwi'n barod wedi siarad gyda swyddogion y bore yma i gael mwy o gyngor ar y pwynt roedd hi'n codi am ble mae un polisi yn gwrthdaro â pholisïau eraill. So, diolch yn fawr am godi'r pwyntiau yna. Rŷn ni'n aros, fel dwi'n siŵr mae Siân Gwenllian yn gwybod, am adroddiad penodol oddi wrth y Comisiwn Cymunedau Cymraeg yn y maes cynllunio, a oedd yn rhan o gam cyntaf y comisiwn, ond maen nhw wedi penderfynu rhoi adroddiad ar wahân i ni ym mis Rhagfyr, gobeithio, am eu hargymhellion nhw yn y maes cynllunio. So, fe allwn ni ddefnyddio hwnnw.”
“Diolch yn fawr, wrth gwrs, am y cwestiwn, Llywydd. Rŷn ni wrthi’n llunio ymateb i adroddiad y Comisiwn Cymunedau Cymraeg ar hyn o bryd. Pan fyddwn ni’n adolygu 'Cymru’r Dyfodol', byddwn ni’n ystyried pob tystiolaeth, gan gynnwys argymhellion y comisiwn.”
“Because it's not just that local authorities will administer the levy, it will be for local authorities to decide whether or not this is a useful tool in their armoury. It is part of this Government's commitment to devolution not just to Wales but within Wales. The way in which the money collected by a visitor levy is deployed will also be subject to an annual consultation with tourism businesses in that area. So, the businesses concerned will have a direct voice in the way in which that revenue is deployed. I am confident that our local authorities will use the money, should they choose to raise it, in ways that make that industry, which is very important in a number of our local authorities in Wales, an industry that goes on being successful and attractive into the future.”
“I look forward to bringing the visitor levy Bill to the floor of the Senedd. I completely disagree with the viewpoint of the Conservative Party; it is a way of dealing with the impact of tourism in those parts of Wales that most rely upon it that helps to make sure that those places go on being attractive to visitors in the future. Right around the globe, this has been used and there is no evidence that it leads to a detrimental impact, because the money that is raised will be reinvested in making sure that the things that bring tourists to an area go on being available to them. When the Bill is introduced, the Member will see that it uses a definition that would require those local authorities who choose to have a visitor levy—.”
“I thank Peter Fox. Our focus is on keeping our taxes clear, simple and stable. Through this and such things as our non-domestic rates support package, we demonstrate our commitment to supporting businesses in Wales.”
“I've already said that I don't have any plans to reinstate it. We're investing an additional £78 million this year to provide a fifth successive year of temporary support for those sectors. The Member says 'some' businesses don't pay business rates—50 per cent of businesses don't pay any business rates in Wales. It's not just 'some'; almost half of them don't. And of those that do, another 30 per cent—more than 30 per cent—get help, on a sliding scale, with those bills. We invest, year on year, over £300 million of taxpayers' money in providing relief for businesses here in Wales. We're pleased to do that, because it allows those businesses to create the conditions in which they can be successful. But the notion that businesses in Wales are short-changed by the system we have simply doesn't bear practical examination.”
“The structures of our economy mean that some of the policy levers available across our border are not as easily used here in Wales. That does not mean to say that they cannot be used at all, and that's why the powers in the 2024 Act are important. We undertook, during the passage of that Act, to consult on any proposals to introduce differential multipliers here in Wales, so work is going on to map what the impact would be of moving in that direction. But I can provide an assurance to Members that whatever proposals come forward will be subject to the full consultation that the Senedd was anxious to see during the passage of that Bill.”
“I thank Luke Fletcher for that, and I apologise for the fact that I ran out of time before answering this point that he made in the debate we had on these matters last week. He's absolutely right, that is exactly how the multiplier operates: it shifts the burden of business rates from smaller businesses to larger businesses. The issue that you face in Wales is that our pattern of businesses is very different to the pattern in England. There, it is much easier, I believe, to shift the burden to very large employers, because the number of very large employers in England is very different to the number of large employers in the Welsh economy. The average rateable value in Wales is £19,000, and the average in England is £34,000.”
“I thank Luke Fletcher for that. We remain on track to deliver the reforms announced for this Senedd term. The Local Government Finance (Wales) Act 2024 makes significant improvements, including more frequent revaluations, actions to address avoidance and, as from next year, a power to introduce differential multipliers.”
“The Chancellor faced a £22 billion black hole in the income that she had available to her and the expenditure that had already been committed by the outgoing Conservative Government. That £22 billion black hole is almost exactly matched by the irresponsible tax cut in national insurance contributions of the previous Chancellor. So, the problem that is facing the sectors here in Wales is the legacy of the decisions made by that previous Government. I've already answered questions this afternoon, Llywydd, about the actions that I hope we will be able to take in supporting those sectors that are affected by that decision, and I don't think there's anything further that I can offer the Member this afternoon.”
“There has been funding year on year added to additional learning needs in Wales, but the call for that extra support has significantly outstripped previous estimates of what that call would be. So, in my conversations with her in preparing the budget, those new demands have been very much highlighted by her. On the capital front that Joyce Watson mentioned, of course, here in Wales, the twenty-first century schools programme means that we're in a very different position, nearly a decade into that programme, than schools in England are facing. But I'm also aware, from the points made to me by both the Cabinet Secretary and local authority leaders as I've met them in recent weeks, of the repairs issue at a school level—not new schools now, but keeping the existing fabric of buildings up to the standard that they need to be.”
“I thank Joyce Watson for that. I gave her just one example of the Welsh-specific issues in the budget that she herself has often highlighted here on the floor of the Senedd. There are others as well; there's the Celtic free port investment, the hydrogen project in Milford Haven, to talk of just two in the Member's own immediate locality, on top of all the investments that the Member has highlighted in relation to carers, and unpaid carers as well. In relation to education, I'm very well aware, from my conversations with the Cabinet Secretary for Education, of the extraordinary rise in the number of young people who are being identified as having additional learning needs.”