Russell George
Independent · Wales
“Huw, the point that I'm making is that the UK Government departments—. We have different figures from whichever department that we're speaking to. Treasury says one thing and DEFRA says something else. This is the issue.”
“Okay. Thank you, Cabinet Secretary. You haven't answered my question at all there, and I think you know you haven't answered it—I did ask you last week.”
“But, of course, the NFU and the CLA—and I much prefer to believe their figures than the figures coming out of different departments of the UK Government at the moment—estimate that up to 70,000 farms will be affected.”
“The family farm tax on farming businesses is misguided and ill thought out, and will only lead to lasting damage to Welsh farming and the break-up of family farms. But the tax will also leave farmers with a lack of confidence as well to invest in the future of their businesses.”
“Thank you for your answer, Cabinet Secretary, and, of course, it is really important that we all support our small and independent shops, particularly in the lead-up to Christmas as well, and I’ll be doing all that I can to encourage people to consider shopping local in the lead-up to Christmas.”
“We know that there are waiting lists in some areas that are significant. We know that there's downgrading to Llanidloes hospital as a result of funding pressures to the health board, as well.”
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“—good resilient farms in Wales and make sure we are supporting those farmers for the long term. So, I'd certainly hope that Members across this Chamber will support our motion today and will vote to make sure that this damaging farm tax is reversed, because if we don't do that we'll see the demise of farms and farming communities right across Wales.”
“If we have no farmers, or a reduced level of farmers, we are more reliant on food suppliers from outside Wales and outside the UK. And we saw the impact during COVID that that had on supply chains, and we know of the effect that the war in Ukraine had on food supplies as well. So, we absolutely need to make sure that we have—”
“Huw, the point that I'm making is that the UK Government departments—. We have different figures from whichever department that we're speaking to. Treasury says one thing and DEFRA says something else. This is the issue. This is the point that I'm making: if the UK Government itself can't get the number of farms affected right then we're in a real mess, aren't we? And what I'm asking you is—and I hope you can respond to this in your closing remarks—what your figures are. Which department's figures do you accept? Now, we saw last week tens of thousands of farmers descend, didn't we, on London and of course that matches the anger and frustration of farmers that turned up here in February as well. The mantra was 'No farmers, no food', and that is something that really breaks the issue down to something that we should all really understand.”
“I'd be interested, though, because the Welsh Government, I would hope, would have its own figures as well, and they may be different to the UK Government's figures, depending on which department they are speaking to. But I think Labour Ministers here either do not understand how farming businesses operate, or they do understand, but they're willing to see the demise of the industry.”
“But, of course, the NFU and the CLA—and I much prefer to believe their figures than the figures coming out of different departments of the UK Government at the moment—estimate that up to 70,000 farms will be affected. And whilst the Labour Government here claims that the new £1 million threshold means that three quarters of farms will not be impacted by the change, of course we hear from the farming unions that that is an underestimate and that up to half of all working farms, possibly more, could be affected by the new tax. And the figures Treasury is using do not accurately reflect the impact of these changes on rural communities. They claim less than 25 per cent of businesses will be affected, but I would say that is a significant miscalculation.”
“The family farm tax on farming businesses is misguided and ill thought out, and will only lead to lasting damage to Welsh farming and the break-up of family farms. But the tax will also leave farmers with a lack of confidence as well to invest in the future of their businesses. I think what is incredibly disappointing is that Labour Ministers here are more concerned about standing up for their own party in Westminster than standing up for rural communities here in Wales. And when it comes to the number of farms that are affected, we've heard all sorts of figures from different departments within the UK Government. I think the latest figure is that the wealthiest 500 estates each year will only be paying the farm tax.”
“We know that there are waiting lists in some areas that are significant. We know that there's downgrading to Llanidloes hospital as a result of funding pressures to the health board, as well. And, of course, I know you'll agree with me that it is vital that there is cross-border co-operation between England and Wales, and, of course, the health board has to provide funding to health boards in England in order to reduce their own waiting lists. So, can I specifically ask, Minister, how much of that £50 million will be received by Powys Teaching Health Board?”
“Okay. Thank you, Cabinet Secretary. You haven't answered my question at all there, and I think you know you haven't answered it—I did ask you last week. You announced, 10 days ago, in a statement to Members and at your Labour Party conference, that there would be £50 million-worth of spending across the seven health boards and that funding would be provided to them immediately. That was the wording in your statement. So, I am asking specifically how much of that £50 million Powys Teaching Health Board will receive? I think you talked about the £3 million. That's not their share; they'll be receiving part of that £3 million. But I'm asking how much of that £50 million will be received by Powys Teaching Health Board. We know that the pressures on the health board are extreme.”
“6. A wnaiff yr Ysgrifennydd Cabinet gadarnhau faint o'r £50 miliwn o gyllid i gefnogi byrddau iechyd, y cyfeiriwyd ato yn ei ddatganiad ar 17 Tachwedd 2024, y mae Bwrdd Iechyd Addysgu Powys wedi'i gael? OQ61927”
“One, particularly, is that there is concern and anxiety from some businesses that employ a small number of people about the rise in employers' national insurance contributions, and the other squeeze for them is around business rates and the less attractive offer than has been there in previous years. So, Cabinet Secretary, as I continue to visit small businesses in my own constituency, what positive information can you provide me with that I can pass on to those businesses to encourage them as they think about their businesses going into the future?”
“Thank you for your answer, Cabinet Secretary, and, of course, it is really important that we all support our small and independent shops, particularly in the lead-up to Christmas as well, and I’ll be doing all that I can to encourage people to consider shopping local in the lead-up to Christmas. Now, I have actively been visiting shops across my constituency—those small independent shops in Newtown, Welshpool, Llanfyllin. Llanidloes—I’m going to visit shops there on Friday. Last Saturday, I visited shops in Machynlleth and what one shopkeeper was telling me was that they feel the squeeze at the moment in all directions.”
“These things aren't common, I'm afraid, on the Cambrian line. But the most basic of things is to actually get a seat. So, can I ask when will we be in the position when I can stop standing up in this Chamber asking for people to have a good service on the Cambrian line?”
“One constituent, last week, tells me that he got on the train, there were two carriages, he got on one, there was difficulty getting a disabled passenger onto the train because it was overcrowded, and passengers were standing in the aisles. That, of course, made the journey very difficult from Newtown to Shrewsbury, which is very uncomfortable, and when they stopped at Welshpool, even more people squeezed onto the train and, of course, he puts the question, 'What would happen if there was an accident?', as there was in Talerddig the other week as well. It would be great to have a service where people could actually get to a toilet, a toilet that was clean, and have room for prams and pushchairs and bikes, et cetera, get Wi-Fi, and have a food cart that regularly comes up the train.”
“Thank you, Cabinet Secretary, for your answer. Now, the Government, rightly so as well, encourages people, of course, to use public transport, but people aren't going to use a train service if they can't get a seat. Perhaps they will do, perhaps they're prepared to do that for a short journey, but not for a long journey. And they're not going to do that when trains are, on a regular basis, overcrowded. There have been commitments after commitments for additional rolling stock on the Cambrian line for several, several years, and those commitments have consistently, sadly, been broken. I get correspondence on a weekly basis about the poor service on the Transport for Wales Cambrian line, despite what you say.”
“9. A wnaiff yr Ysgrifennydd Cabinet roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am berfformiad gwasanaethau Trafnidiaeth Cymru ar reilffordd y Cambrian? OQ61884”
“Your statement says that that £50 million will be made available immediately to health boards to increase capacity, so I assume that has already been given to them or is about to, in the coming days. So, can I ask, as it’s especially important for Powys, because they pay providers in other parts of Wales and over the border in England, how much of that £50 million has been allocated to Powys teaching health board, and perhaps you could also outline the sums that have been allocated to the other health boards across Wales as well?”
“Thank you for your statement, Cabinet Secretary. I was looking at the NHS 111 My Planned Care website this morning in regard to Powys waiting time figures, and particularly there’s an issue with trauma and orthopaedics—37 weeks was listed in the table here from treatment to speciality, and that compares to 31 weeks, for example, in Cardiff. I’m also particularly concerned about children in Powys who are waiting for up to four years to be diagnosed for conditions such as autism as well, and Powys health board indeed confirmed that some children have waited more than 200 weeks for a diagnosis for conditions that lead to additional learning needs. And I was very pleased that your statement refers to £50 million.”
“So, whilst Natural Resources Wales are consulting and will make recommendations to you, it is, of course, in your programme for government and you’ve got a firm commitment to that. However, in your manifesto, and in your programme for government, it does, of course, state that the new national park is based in north-east Wales, based in the Clwydian range and Dee valley national landscape, not, of course, into areas of north Powys. But can you give me a commitment, First Minister, that if there is opposition—as there is—clarified to you from areas of north Powys, the new national park won’t indeed extend into an area of Wales where it’s just simply not wanted?”
“Can I thank you for your answer, First Minister? I hope you’ll be aware of a very well-attended public meeting in Llanrhaeadr-ym-Mochnant just a few weeks ago—over 250 people in that meeting expressing their clear opposition to the proposed park extending into areas of north Powys. And the reasons for that are concerns around farm diversification—and farmers, most certainly at any time, but more so at present, need our support—and also concerns around day visitors attending areas, particularly where there’s not sufficient parking and infrastructure is poor. There’s very strong opposition from communities in north Powys. I heard your answer to my initial question, First Minister, and, of course, it is a Labour Party manifesto commitment, and also it follows through into your programme for government.”
“1. Pa asesiad y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi'i wneud o'r safbwyntiau a fynegwyd gan gymunedau lleol ynghylch effaith parc cenedlaethol newydd yng Nghymru? OQ61876”
“But I hope that, when the Cabinet Secretary responds to this debate today, he'll set out his positive vision for rural health, and in doing so I hope he can also update us on plans for a new hospital and health hub in Newtown, which I know the former First Minister, Mark Drakeford, often commented on and committed to, because this is absolutely crucial not to serve just the town, but the whole of north Powys, working with other community hospitals. So, I really am looking forward to an update on the current position in that regard from the Cabinet Secretary as well.”
“I thank James Evans for allowing me to contribute in this debate as well. Of course, Powys has no district general hospital, and James and I frequently have to tell our constituents and set out the reasons why it's not possible for there to be a DGH in Powys. But what I think we can expect is a good, reliable network of community hospitals across Powys, and that should be the bare minimum. Now, I've huge concerns at the moment, I've raised them with the Cabinet Secretary, about the downgrading of Llanidloes hospital, which is disappointing.”
“I think it's going to be a really complicated piece of work for us as a health committee, because I don't think finding the solutions to some of these issues is going to be incredibly easy for us. That's going to be a challenge in itself.”
“And the messages that they gave to us as a committee were that funding pressures are putting the sustainability of general practice at risk; inflationary pressures and the cost of managing and maintaining buildings are further squeezing GP budgets; practices are struggling to recruit and retain staff at all levels, from GP partners to admin staff; and GPs and others working in general practice are managing increasing complexity in their workload as more healthcare services are moved into the community. So, the committee is in the process now of developing its terms of reference. Once it's done, of course, we'll put a formal call-out for evidence. But it struck me that what I just read out—I think we're all aware of those issues, and, as Luke Fletcher pointed out in his contribution, it's the solutions that we need.”
“Now, Carolyn Thomas in her opening to this debate today referred to the Health and Social Care Committee doing work in this area, and that's right, the committee members agreed to do that earlier this year. But not only did they do that, it was other Members that were writing to the committee asking us to consider this work as well. There were several other Members contacting the committee in that regard. And we held a stakeholder session back in September. We held it in private session; we wanted GPs, nurses, other health professionals to be as open and frank with us as possible, so we held that in a private session, and they were very frank and candid with us.”
“The wording of this petition is not new to me. I was the sponsor of an event, working alongside the BMA, back in July, which recognised it was one year on at that point since the BMA launched their Save our Surgeries campaign, calling on the Welsh Government to introduce an urgent rescue package as part of their Save our Surgeries campaign. So, over the years, many constituents of mine, GPs I have spoken to, have talked about the significant pressures that they're under, and how they're also competing with the issues about not being able to recruit staff. So, we do need the restoration of NHS funding for general practice before we see a total collapse of this service in Wales. I don't think that that's scaremongering at all, that's the reality.”
“So, given these challenges, I wonder if the Welsh Government would consider reviewing the eligibility criteria and the funding criteria of the Warm Homes programme to better accommodate the urgent and particular heating needs of the most vulnerable, particularly in cases where like-for-like replacements are essential for their health and well-being.”
“Thank you, Cabinet Secretary, and I'm pleased to hear that officials are taking that six-monthly review. Care & Repair tell me that their caseworkers and home energy officers have experienced difficulties in successfully referring their clients into the scheme. Secondly, there's also an issue that has been encountered where there are serious challenges when it comes to meeting the heating needs of their most vulnerable clients. Many of them, of course, have inefficient homes and complex health needs as well.”
“I wonder if you can talk through the kind of conversations that happen between your officials and the health board officials ahead of escalation, because presumably—I'm talking here about the process—your officials would require a plan to require those savings to be made, and health boards simply say, ‘Look, we can't deliver what you're asking us to do’, and then go into that escalation process. Perhaps talk us through that point, and I suppose my more general question is how successful and realistic performance regimes are if health boards aren't improving? So effectively, if that's happening, what is Welsh Government doing wrong? Is it a failure of leadership or a lack of resource, because it would seem to be one or the other?”
“Back in March, Cabinet Secretary, the then health Minister issued a written statement on the Welsh Government's accountability and ministerial task-and-finish advisory group reviewing NHS Wales governance. Now, the Minister confirmed at the time that that work had been completed and evidence was being gathered, and said it would now consider the evidence and develop recommendations. I haven't seen anything public since that point, so I wonder if I could ask for the outcomes of that task-and-finish group, please. I was obviously disappointed that Powys health board has been escalated into level 4 for growing financial deficits.”