Peter Fox
Group Sir Fynwy Torfaen · Welsh Conservative · Wales
“He shared some of the thriving things that are happening in Newport, and we hope that is replicated—and we know it is—around many towns in Wales. Luke said that businesses are facing a double whammy—quite right—as we've heard several times today, with NI and NDR. Ninety per cent plus of businesses are small businesses.”
“Mabon, can I thank you for your support and pointing out the importance of businesses in your constituency, and the effect those businesses have on your local economy and the community, and how they're the very fabric of things?”
“And I and my colleagues have made it clear today that we need to see a reinstatement of 75 per cent business rate relief for the hospitality, retail and leisure sectors here in Wales, or at least match the funding that is on offer, the support that's on offer, in England.”
“Diolch, Llywydd. A big thanks to everybody who contributed to this really important debate. Small Business Saturday is an important day where we will recognise the importance of supporting these family-run businesses.”
“And I thank Heledd for her intervention and pointing out how important it is that there is support for small businesses who were affected by floods and adverse weather. And thank you, Cabinet Secretary, for your commitment to making sure those businesses will be helped, and I'm sure they will be.”
“As we know, the main issue of a four-day working week is that it would not be possible to roll it out across every sector, meaning that some public sector workers would attain a privilege that would not be enjoyed by most private sector workers, and even many other front-line public sector workers.”
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“At the end of the day, Llywydd, I'm sure we all want to see our small businesses flourish in Wales, so I hope all here will join us in celebrating local businesses and support Small Business Saturday on 7 December.”
“And I and my colleagues have made it clear today that we need to see a reinstatement of 75 per cent business rate relief for the hospitality, retail and leisure sectors here in Wales, or at least match the funding that is on offer, the support that's on offer, in England. Last year Welsh businesses in the sector were paying almost double the business rates, and that can't continue. Llywydd, small businesses need our support, they need the increased NDR relief, they need to see the multiplier frozen, and we really need Labour here to stand up for them against their Westminster colleagues and push them to reverse this devastating national insurance increase, as they clearly broke a manifesto commitment. These things will ensure that Welsh businesses have the opportunity to grow and thrive.”
“And I thank Heledd for her intervention and pointing out how important it is that there is support for small businesses who were affected by floods and adverse weather. And thank you, Cabinet Secretary, for your commitment to making sure those businesses will be helped, and I'm sure they will be. Llywydd, at the end of the day, businesses here are crying out for better support. They don't expect massive payouts or billions of pounds-worth of loans, they just want an economic environment where their hard work and investment pays off. Sadly, this just isn't the case in Labour-run Wales, and it's fast becoming evident that it won't be the case under the Westminster Government also. So, what can be done?”
“Mabon, can I thank you for your support and pointing out the importance of businesses in your constituency, and the effect those businesses have on your local economy and the community, and how they're the very fabric of things? Janet, in passionate style as ever—and thank you for that—said that national insurance is having a devastating effect on businesses, together with the reduce thresholds, and reminded us that Labour broke their promises. Cabinet Secretary, we thank you for your contribution. You and your Government are celebrating small businesses as well, and recognise the importance they play in the local economy, employing over 0.5 million people. You are committed to supporting small businesses, however, lots of small businesses don't feel like the Government or Labour have their back.”
“He shared some of the thriving things that are happening in Newport, and we hope that is replicated—and we know it is—around many towns in Wales. Luke said that businesses are facing a double whammy—quite right—as we've heard several times today, with NI and NDR. Ninety per cent plus of businesses are small businesses. We really need to look again at business rates and encourage the Government to actually look at that. And thank you, Adam, for your intervention, and the lesson, because I didn't know that business rates started in 1601. Yes, it is about time we reviewed those. Sam Rowlands's said it's a difficult time for so many businesses and those who run them, and highlighted very clearly that Labour are no friend of business. He pointed out that the money raised is not the Government's money, it's taxpayers' money.”
“Diolch, Llywydd. A big thanks to everybody who contributed to this really important debate. Small Business Saturday is an important day where we will recognise the importance of supporting these family-run businesses. Can I thank Sam Kurtz for kicking off the debate and pointing out clearly that small businesses are the lifeblood of our communities, sharing the pressures that they are facing with national insurance, energy and inflation, and these things resulting in job losses and reduced investment? How this is meant to result in a prime economic environment for business growth is a real mystery to many of us. Can I thank John Griffiths for pointing out the challenges on the high street and pointing out what can be done when people work together?”
“You can either condense five days of work and its outcomes into four days, resulting in longer working hours, or you can pay an employee their existing salary for fewer hours of work, which could, in effect, be seen as awarding them a 20 per cent pay rise. We know it is not the UK Labour Government policy to support a general move to a four-day working week for five days' worth of pay. Can I therefore ask the Minister if the Welsh Government has considered the impact on all public services potentially working at different times of days, should the four-day working week be introduced here?”
“As we know, the main issue of a four-day working week is that it would not be possible to roll it out across every sector, meaning that some public sector workers would attain a privilege that would not be enjoyed by most private sector workers, and even many other front-line public sector workers. Whilst I know there are calls for a four-day working week, my position, and that of my group, is that we believe the same benefits of a four-day working week can be obtained by simply improving the flexibility for workers to take time off, to balance family life and other commitments. There are two ways of achieving a four-day working week.”
“It comes at a terrible time, right at the run-up to Christmas, where they will have to cancel various parties and different things like that, so their revenue is going to be really shot for a couple of months. Working with the councils, along with the other support that is being pledged, is there an opportunity to extend some NDR relief for a period, recognising the takings of those premises will be non-existent?”
“Diolch, Llywydd. Can I thank you, Deputy First Minister, for going out to Monmouth so early this morning and meeting with the people in Skenfrith? As we've heard, and you've shared, they're a great community, but they're still reeling from storm Dennis. And thank you for visiting Osbaston and Forge Road. Of course, the flooding isn't over yet in Monmouth, we fear, because the Wye river takes three days to catch up, and it's still rising, so we're very worried about the elderly people in the caravans on Hadnock Road. So, we hold our breath on that. We thank the emergency services and the council for all the work they've done. Not just those communities are flooded, individual communities with passing water have been flooded, and we've had several hostelries, pubs and things that have been flooded also.”
“Dirprwy Lywydd, I look forward to scrutinising this legislation in more detail going forward. It has to be said, though, that many people across Wales will feel that this is ill-thought-out and unnecessary legislation. I hope that my colleagues across the Chamber will see sense as this Bill makes its way forward.”
“However, comparing other countries with ours could be like comparing apples with pears; other countries have different taxation regimes for their citizens, they may not have the equivalent of our council tax, for instance, which already makes provision for economic development and as such ought to be considering tourism. In Wales, it could be argued that this levy would be levelling double taxation on hard-pressed families for something that already should have been provided for. I note that the legislation will compel the publication of reports on how much revenue has been collected and where it should be spent, and I do welcome this, at least. Cabinet Secretary, can you indicate how much the administration of this levy will cost and who will ultimately foot the bill?”
“The Welsh Government cites examples of tourism levy across the world, but several of these have been implemented to deter tourists. You quoted Edinburgh, and I believe Edinburgh is considering bringing one in to deter tourists. So, with this in mind, what assessment has been made of the impact that this proposed tax will have on the number of overnight tourists coming to visit Wales? And yes, other countries use visitor levies as a way of raising revenue and for that money to be exclusively used to improve facilities for tourism use, and there is some merit in that argument.”
“Also, we see councils can lift the charge—councils can lift the charge—of the proposed levels to new proposed levels with Government permission. So, the cost to visitors in some parts of Wales could be greater. And as you know, Cabinet Secretary, Welsh councils are facing £560 million-worth of pressures—we heard from leaders earlier today—due to, mainly, the inadequate past settlements. Now, I'm concerned that there is a real risk that the tax will end up helping other struggling services and divert the money away from its intended purpose. There have to be real safeguards put in place—and I know you've outlined some of those—to make sure that tourism uplifts aren't top-sliced from existing budgets for economic development, for instance.”
“The tourism sector is still trying to build back from the pandemic, and, to make matters worse, they are faced with UK Labour hiking up their costs through the increase to employer's national insurance and its reduced threshold. If councils introduce this to the industry, it will bring the additional bureaucracy and administration of the tax, and that's another hidden cost and burden to those businesses. And let's just look at the costs for the Welsh visitor. We talk about it being minimal, but £1.25 a night—so, a family with four children staying in a guesthouse would have to budget for around another £52.50. If that business is VAT registered, it will have to charge the VAT on top and that will take it to over £60 for a seven-day break. I would suggest that that could stop visitors deciding to holiday in Wales.”
“The Government's own impact assessment highlights the fact that, in the worst case scenario, there could be as much as a £60 million impact on the industry, resulting in, possibly, losses of hundreds of jobs. Now, we know that businesses in the hospitality sector already have huge challenges, having to pay double the business rates that their counterparts in England do; they shouldn't be further disadvantaged by things like this. Now, the legislation will create another significant pressure on an incredibly hard-pressed sector. And I know this tax wouldn't arrive until as early as 2027, but it is seen as another drag anchor around the industry's neck.”
“Thank you, Cabinet Secretary, for the statement. Dirprwy Lywydd, I make it clear from the outset that I and my group are opposed to this Labour-Plaid tax hike on our tourism sector. As we all know, one in seven jobs in Wales relies on the tourism industry, which equates to almost 200,000 people. Clearly, this is an industry that must be supported, not exploited. The Welsh Government states that a visitor levy would follow the Welsh Government's tax principles, one of which is to deliver Welsh Government policy objectives, in particular supporting jobs and growth. But Labour's policy for supporting the economy by levying new taxes simply doesn't make sense.”
“The truth is that this isn't the first time that Labour have been dishonest with the people of Wales. They didn't tell voters that they were going to strip pensioners of winter fuel payments, they have u-turned on the funding for HS2, and they have u-turned on this. Dirprwy Lywydd, I hope everyone will back our amendment, noting the breach of a manifesto promise, and I hope Labour Members will begin to stand up for the people of Wales and stand up to their colleagues in Westminster. Diolch.”
“The chief economist of the Institute of Directors noted that this is an especially bad time to be raising this tax, as 'business confidence is low, hiring plans have already been hit, and vacancies are falling, this will hit employment prospects and earnings.' And she's bang on when she noted that 'The effects of higher national insurance costs will be borne by workers.' Finally, one thing that this motion does not address is the simple fact that the UK Labour Government has broken a manifesto commitment to not raise tax on working people. Time and time again, the Chancellor went on tv and made the claim, only to u-turn after they got into power. This means one of two things for the Labour Government: this is either a broken promise, or that small business owners are not working people. There is no alternative way of spinning that.”
“Ultimately, the real losers, when it comes the rise in national insurance, are the hard-working small business owners who have had to struggle through the pandemic, the global rise in the cost of doing business, and now, just as they are starting to rebuild and plan for the future, they are hit with further tax increases.”
“Whilst I do support the point in the motion that calls on the levy increase to be paid for by the UK Government, ultimately it is the taxpayers who are going to pay for the Chancellor’s tax increase. Furthermore, much like the practicality of Labour’s rise in inheritance tax on farmers, there has been little clarity as to the fine print on this policy. Much of our public services rely on private business to help them run, as we've already heard—GPs, dental practices and care homes. They're all struggling and could face further financial pressure as a result. Will there be Government support for these businesses? We don't know. We hope they will be taken into consideration.”
“I move, Dirprwy Lywydd. Can I thank Plaid Cymru for bringing forward this debate today? There is little I can disagree with within the motion. My position, and the position of the Welsh Conservatives, has always been clear: if we want genuine economic growth, we need to be creating the right business environment in Wales. Even a 1 per cent rise in employer national insurance contributions for the public sector will cost the Welsh taxpayers an extra £100 million. And yes, the UK Government has said that it will provide funding to cover the cost of national insurance contributions for those workers, however this will still come out of the taxpayer’s pocket.”
“I look forward to seeing the progress that the ombudsman makes regarding the recommendations of the committee, especially the introduction of key performance indicators based on a sample of decisions made by the investigating officer and code team managers undergoing additional checks. This, combined with the recommendation that the ombudsman's office updates the committee as to how it is monitoring staff compliance in respect of its social media policy, will go a long way to ensuring that incidents like this do not happen again. Dirprwy Lywydd, it is important that our public bodies demonstrate impartiality and are not even perceived to have political bias, and I am confident that the ombudsman has demonstrated that thoroughly.”
“It was important for the ombudsman’s office to acknowledge that the behaviour of the member of staff in question fell well short of the standards of conduct expected of staff, and I’m glad that swift action was taken. In the last year, we have seen the damage that even just the perception of wrongdoing can have on the reputation of even the most senior offices in Wales, so I'm glad that this robust investigation was carried out and determined that there is no political bias in the ombudsman's office. I am glad to see that a number of lessons were learned from this event and that all of the recommendations of the independent review have been accepted by the ombudsman. I welcome also the co-operation that the ombudsman has shown throughout.”
“I want to begin my welcoming the thoroughness of this investigation into what was an incredibly delicate matter, and I concur with everything that the Finance Committee Chairman has just said. I am confident that things were done well. Despite the initial rocky start, as we heard about, with the appointment of the person who was clearly the wrong person, it was good that the subsequent appointment was able to command confidence throughout the process. The original complaint, which stemmed from, as we know, hateful comments from a senior member in the ombudsman’s office, was deeply shocking, and had a very real risk of damaging the reputation of the office, especially considering the emphasis that the ombudsman’s office puts on values such as dignity and respect.”
“Cabinet Secretary, I'm sure you have seen the latest DWP statistics highlighting just how catastrophic the decision to remove winter fuel payments from pensioners was. It seems that 50,000 extra pensioners will be thrown into poverty next year, and another 50,000 by 2030. Now, we know Scottish Labour have had the sense to go against their leaders in Westminster and pledge to reinstate the payment in Scotland, whilst sadly Members and Ministers here continue to defend the appalling decision. Cabinet Secretary, with that in mind, how many pensioners in Wales need to be plunged into poverty before the Government condemns this devastating policy?”
“I've spoken with the Government over several years and there've been plans to do more and more to alleviate the situation there. So, Cabinet Secretary, could I ask for any updates that there may be on potential works to improve Highbeech roundabout? And could I request, perhaps, if you're in the area, that you meet with me and look at some of the very important congestion issues that we have in Chepstow?”
“Thank you, Cabinet Secretary, and, as you'll know well, the Monmouth constituency in south-east Wales has some of those most important trunk roads: it has the M4, obviously, connecting Wales to London; the A465 between Neath and Hereford; the A40, travelling from Fishguard to London; and, obviously, the A48 that runs through Chepstow and links Carmarthen through to Gloucester. So, some major trunk roads. But the A48 is a specific concern, because it's something that has cropped up many times, certainly, in my inbox, and I know in the Government's inbox, especially around the congestion we have at Highbeech roundabout, which is where the A48 meets the A466. Much traffic comes from Gloucestershire and other parts of Monmouthshire and feeds down onto the M4 and the M48, and it is a nightmare, Cabinet Secretary.”
“What is important now, however, is that both Labour Governments, here in Cardiff Bay and in Westminster, continue to take advantage of the opportunities of free ports and continue to pursue ways in which our economy can make the very best use of them. Thank you.”
“First of all, can I start by welcoming this legislation and its regulations, particularly the fact that it will have a positive impact on the implementation and effectiveness of free ports? So, our group will be supporting this. I'm proud of the fact that it was a Conservative Government that began the implementation of free ports here in Wales, and I welcome the fact that the Labour Government are going to pursue a similar policy. Thanks to the work that has been carried on, I understand that the Celtic free port is projected to lever in £8 billion-worth of investment, possibly creating as many as 11,500 high-quality, skilled jobs. And similarly with the free port in Ynys Môn, which could create up to 13,000 jobs and could increase UK gross domestic product by £1 billion by 2030.”
“With this in mind, Cabinet Secretary, what safeguards can be given to the tourism sector that, if this tax succeeds in coming forward, it will be used as additional investment and not funnelled to support other struggling services?”
“Thank you, Cabinet Secretary. Soon, this Parliament will undergo scrutiny of the tourism levy here in Wales—a new dimension to your taxation policy, should its passage be secured. My colleagues and I, as you know, strongly oppose the implementation of such a levy and I know that businesses across Wales have deep anxiety over its impact. They and we do not believe that it will support the industry—to the contrary, we believe it will damage our economy. We know that it will be down to local authorities to manage this levy. However, too often, we see councils forced to rely on revenue raising to make up for rising pressures that the local government settlement hasn't always addressed.”
“As we move into winter, these pressures are only set to increase, especially with the adverse weather we’ve seen over recent years. That increases things like flooding, but also a lot of landslides and the like. We’ve seen many of those, and they hang around for years sometimes because councils can’t seem to grapple with them. Cabinet Secretary, how will the Welsh Government help to ensure there is sufficient resilience within local government to enable them to cope and keep our communities safe and connected?”
“Thank you for that answer. I know it’s frustrating when we talk about non-domestic rates often, but when I was with colleagues from the Federation of Small Businesses yesterday, they were stressing again the pressures that NDR businesses are facing. So, there’s a mismatch between the narrative and the experience that businesses face. Moving on to my last point, which moves us into a different area a little, we know that local authorities are facing some £560 million-worth of funding pressures—we’ve heard this a lot—on children’s services, social care and education, but I think there’s another time bomb out there, and that’s our crumbling infrastructure here in Wales, be that our potholed roads or our worn-out bridges. And there are hundreds of bridges, thousands of bridges, that need massive money spent on them.”
“Is there an opportunity now, do you think, Cabinet Secretary, that we can use that multiplier opportunity to lessen the impact on the smaller businesses in our communities?”
“Thank you, Cabinet Secretary, and I think we’re all on the same page in wanting to see these services really protected, because this rises above politics because it’s so fundamental to the whole of society, and we need to make progress on that. Andrew R.T. Davies touched on some of the areas I was going to focus on in my second question, and that is looking at trying to put some reassurance for the struggling sectors that are fearful that future NDR relief may not continue in Wales, where we know that it is going to continue in England. But we know that they are freezing their multiplier there as well. Now, we have the use of, or to put a multiplier in now in Wales—. We haven’t used that yet.”
“Bearing in mind some of the things that Heledd was saying earlier, I wondered what support could the wider care sector be given to enable them to make sure they have resilience, and that they can continue to support our public sector in the way we need them to. We see so many unmet hours of need in domiciliary care, and if we see a further erosion of businesses that are delivering that, that will not help the current system we’re in.”
“Diolch, Llywydd. Cabinet Secretary, we all know that public sector services rely heavily on those private providers—as Heledd Fychan has already pointed out, care homes, but domiciliary care providers as well. As a result of that recent budget and those increased costs, certainly around national insurance and the thresholds relating to that, we are going to see those providers really struggling. And they are fundamental to the delivery of our public services and for the recovery journey that we need to be on in many ways. Now, we did see Wales offer, or going to put in place, 100 per cent relief from non-domestic rates for childcare providers across Wales, which was extremely welcome.”
“Ultimately, what Wales needs right now is Labour Members here willing to stand up to their counterparts in Westminster and stop this raid on people's pockets. It's clear—[ Interruption .] It is clear that the Labour MPs here in Wales do not want to, but I would hope that the Senedd Members in here would reconsider. Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd.”
“We could stand here for hours, Joyce, talking about how money should have been spent in different ways. I could probably highlight millions of pounds spent in Wales by Welsh Government that perhaps could have been spent in a different way, so I don't agree with you, Joyce. But, ultimately—[ Interruption .] But, ultimately, we need a better funding formula, something most of us here are agreed on, one that seeks a needs-based formula that replaces the current Barnett system, and I think we all agree that needs rethinking. Finally, I know the First Minister has said that she has as much influence over the next President of the United States as she does Keir Starmer, but I think that is an absolute cop-out; we all know that.”
“This will involve a holistic approach to our health service, taking into account the increasing pressures on social care. And I know the Cabinet Secretary has mooted similar. We also need to see additional funding allocated to our education system, which has clearly been let down by 25 years of Labour mismanagement. But, ultimately, we need—[ Interruption. ] Oh, sorry, yes I will, Joyce.”
“I agree it's disappointing when people are misled in Wales and nothing comes as a result of that. What do we know? What we do know is that Labour's tax-and-spend policy will inevitably come back to bite the people of Wales, and while this additional borrowing may artificially inflate the economy in the short term, when this borrowed money runs out, because it will, growth is set to remain largely unchanged in the long run, with the economy set to grow less than was predicted in March. The influx of borrowed money may look good now, but the proof will be in the pudding. We need the Welsh Government to use any additional consequentials to effectively tackle our NHS waiting times, which successive health Ministers have clearly lost control of.”
“The commitment was there from the Conservative Government to do it and it would have been—[ Interruption .] It would have been carried forward, and it would provide a massive boost for the north Wales economy.”
“At the same time, Labour Members here are happy to call for comparative pennies compared to the billions they used to call for in the past. One thing we were disappointed not to see in the budget was funding allocated to the electrification of the north Wales line, a move that was promised—[ Interruption .]—a move that was promised by the previous Conservative Government.”
“At the very least, we need to ensure that business rate relief for the hospitality, retail and leisure sector is in line with what is on offer in England, so that the businesses here are not punished for operating in Wales. Labour's tax rises are also set to hit rural communities, and will rip the heart out of family farms, despite what has been said, causing irreparable damage to our rural economy and, most importantly, our food security. This isn't the first time that Labour have abandoned the people of Wales when it's politically convenient. After years of calling for billions of pounds—we've heard it in this Chamber time and time again—in consequentials from HS2, Labour's Secretary of State in Wales is happy to do a complete 180 degree u-turn, saying Wales shouldn't get these levels of consequentials anymore.”
“Now, the chief economist of the Institute of Directors has said, and I quote: ‘A hike in national insurance represents a straightforward increase in business costs. It is essentially the equivalent of a poll tax on companies, and takes no account of whether a business is profitable or not. At a time when business confidence is low, hiring plans have already been hit, and vacancies are falling, this will hit employment prospects and earnings.’ His words, not mine. And this sting will be particularly damaging for the economy of Wales, where we already have the highest rate of unemployment in the United Kingdom. I hope that the Labour Government here in Cardiff Bay takes the time to contemplate the damage this policy will have on businesses in Wales and implement tax cuts of their own.”
“The Labour Party promised not to raise taxes on working people, and have conveniently decided that business owners do not count as working people, despite the fact that many are struggling and do not take more than the minimum wage home. The Chancellor promised not to alter her fiscal rules to enable more borrowing, yet now we have billions of pounds added to the country's debt through her blatant fiddling of her own fiscal rules. Contrary to what Labour would have everyone believe, this budget is profoundly anti-growth. Now, we know that Welsh businesses are already saddled with the highest business rates in Great Britain, and now the IFS has highlighted the fact that employers will have to pay an additional £900 for each employee on the median average earnings; even an employee on the minimum wage will cost employers an additional £770.”
“Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd, and I move the motion in the name of Darren Millar. Forty billion pounds—that's how much additional taxation Labour have levied against the people of the United Kingdom. Frankly, I've been shocked at how disingenuous the Labour Government in Westminster has been surrounding this budget. Even the Institute for Fiscal Studies have said that Labour knew the broad outlines of the financial challenges the country faced, but they refused to confront them in their manifesto or pre-election statements. It's astonishing that one of the first things that the Labour Government did was strip the vital heating support from our pensioners, a move that we are told could see 4,000 premature deaths in Wales. Now, this is a move that every single Welsh Labour MP supported and a move that Labour Members here have failed to condemn.”
“Can I therefore ask, Cabinet Secretary, what progress has been made on improving the standard of education systems in Wales, and on ensuring that the gap between Wales and other UK nations is not just narrowed but eliminated altogether?”
“It's really good to hear about advancing technologies, such as e-sgol, and how they're connecting classrooms across Wales. I hope you enjoyed that visit to the Spanish class in Caldicot, and we know that that, as you've shared, is sharing provision with Monmouth comprehensive, and it's great that Monmouthshire is taking a lead. It is great that these technologies exist to ensure that pupils can maximise their attendance but also learn new subjects that might not have been available, whilst also ensuring that no child is left behind. Unfortunately, though, Cabinet Secretary, pupils in Wales are still being left behind, based on the 2023 Programme for International Student Assessment scores. I note your predecessor stated at the time the results were released that plans had been launched to raise standards.”