Julie James
Welsh Labour · Wales
“Thank you very much for that question, Adam. I’m not aware, I’m afraid, of whether the Welsh Government has had that specific discussion on the Crown Estate. I will make enquiries and come back to you.”
“Diolch, Delyth. That was certainly an issue with the previous Government. In my previous role, I had a very large number of very frustrating discussions with the previous UK Government on this and their inability, really, to see quite how far in advance Wales was and what the effect of that might be.”
“Well, I just fundamentally disagree with your characterisation of what’s happened in the UK budget. I don’t think, as the First Minister just said in First Minister’s questions, that it’s helpful at all to do the kind of scaremongering that you’ve just done.”
“Thank you very much, Mick. I just want to start by saying that, of course, we're not starting from scratch, and I'm very grateful that we're able to build on the work that you started when you were Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution, as well as the wealth of expertise from groups such as the Welsh Centre for Crime and Socia…”
“Thank you very much, Rhys. We do continue to work on the development of a tribunals Bill through which we will address recommendations of both the Commission on Justice in Wales and the Law Commission report on devolved tribunals in Wales.”
“Not unsurprisingly, some of our 22 local government colleagues are further along that line than others, but, you know, we absolutely will get there.”
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“I can assure you we are going through that process now and we will give careful consideration to any of those implications. As a Government we've taken a neutral stance, quite rightly, I think, and Members will vote according to their conscience in the UK Parliament, and then we will be in a position to make sure that that is properly devolved.”
“And this Bill, although it has many complex moral and legal considerations, is no different in that respect. We would go through that same process. If a legislative consent memorandum is required then we will make sure that one is brought. That LCM would set out the implications for the devolution settlement and the arrangements in the Bill, which we would hope by then, of course, to have negotiated so that the devolution settlement was fully reflected, so, if, for example, we ultimately end up with a power for the Secretary of State to prescribe particular medicines, that that would be appropriately done by the Welsh Ministers here in Wales, for example, and so on. So, the same process is gone through despite the moral and legal complexity of any given Bill.”
“Thank you. I don't want to make this sound insignificant in any way, but we're engaging in the usual engagement that we always have when there's a Bill going through Parliament. So, we have a number of policy officials and lawyers who watch UK Bills to make sure that any implication for the devolved settlement is fully recognised, that if there are powers going to the Secretary of State, as I said in answer to Alun Davies just earlier, that, where appropriate, those equivalent powers come to Welsh Ministers, that we do not have concurrent decision making where that's not appropriate, that we have the decision making devolved here to Wales where that's appropriate, and that we make the correct provision for the devolution settlement.”
“Diolch, Rhys. Whilst we do not know what the final content of the assisted dying Bill will be, it's likely that it will relate to a reserved matter. We are in regular contact with the UK Government to understand and plan for the implications for the people of Wales.”
“Part of that will be about ensuring that the service operates as efficiently as possible, and I know that's something that the president of Welsh Tribunals has made clear is very important to him—and, indeed, he did so at a conference I was at just very recently. So, I'm looking forward to that continued dialogue as well. I thought it was important that we met with the First Minister in the first instance, and I do hope we can bring a legislative statement forward early in the next calendar year, so that we can have some certainty about the timetabling for the Bill.”
“It's an important piece of legislation, one that we hope is consensual across parties, and that will govern how our tribunals operate for years to come. We're developing it thoughtfully and consultatively to make sure we get that right. I'm not able to say exactly when, because I'm reliant on the First Minister making a legislative statement about the upcoming legislative programme, but I can assure you that we are working diligently on the Bill. And then, just to say that the First Minister and I are actually shortly meeting with the president of Welsh Tribunals, and, more generally, I expect to have regular dialogue with him about identifying and securing the right future budgets for the tribunals as well.”
“Thank you very much, Rhys. We do continue to work on the development of a tribunals Bill through which we will address recommendations of both the Commission on Justice in Wales and the Law Commission report on devolved tribunals in Wales. The recommendations provided a considered road map for us to follow as we develop and implement our proposals for reform. The proposed reforms are aimed at creating a modern, coherent tribunals system focused on meeting the needs of tribunal users, who can be confident the system operates with independence and in a way that adjudicates on the disputes justly and efficiently. The respondents, as I know you know, to the White Paper last year were generally very positive about the proposed reforms. We're now doing the detailed work that will allow the draft legislation to be produced.”
“Diolch, Rhys. Tribunal reform is very much at the heart of our ambition for the justice system in Wales, and a programme of work to which we remain completely committed. The timing of legislation associated with the programme will be announced in due course.”
“Then, there are specific examples where we just would not have been able to do the social partnership and public procurement piece without the well-being of future generations Act.”
“Not unsurprisingly, some of our 22 local government colleagues are further along that line than others, but, you know, we absolutely will get there. Then, I think once we feel it is properly embedded across the public sector, and it might seem like a long time to us, but it's not a long time, actually, in the way that these things work—it's 10 years, really, so that's not a very long time for cultural change for that kind of public administration—I think a future Senedd might want to see whether you want to give the commissioner a few more teeth, if you like. But I think it has been bedding in very well. I think that just the fact that we've got to think in that way, and publish reports and responses in that way, and actually give it consideration, has made a serious impact on, actually, all of our legislation.”
“It has made a fundamental change inside the Welsh Government: so, the way that we are subject to the requirements of the Act; the way that we set and publish our well-being objectives within six months of the general election; the way we publish the annual report of progress made; the way that the seven ways of working work out the way that people think about it and, actually, mention it when you're looking at ministerial advice from across the Government—the future generations Act is not only mentioned but embedded in the way that the thinking works. I think it is taking slightly longer to do that in other public bodies, but I know that my colleague Jayne Bryant has been working with local government on doing that; I had in that job and I know Rebecca Evans did too.”
“Diolch, Delyth. I, too, am extremely proud of the Act, and for anyone of us who's attended an international function—I was just discussing this with the Deputy First Minister very recently, actually—it's really striking, isn't it, how people come up to you and talk about how we did that and what effect it's had. It really is a beacon of hope in the world, really—that Governments can do this. I think it's important to remember, in considering that, that it's as much about culture change in the way that decisions are made as the justiciability, if you like, of the Act itself.”
“Diolch, Delyth. The Act was specifically designed to strengthen existing governance systems to improve the well-being of Wales. Welsh legislation has drawn from, and supplemented, the Act’s provisions, including, for example, our Social Partnership and Public Procurement (Wales) Act 2023. As you know, Welsh Ministers must set out and publish well-being objectives and review them on an annual basis.”
“Although it's going to be hosted, unless this has changed very recently, by the Ministry, it will be separate to the Ministry and run on a four-nation basis, with every one of those nations having a say in how that administrator operates, and the SIs that come forward on a four-nation basis will also reflect that.”
“And in all honesty, we don't want to go backwards, so the statutory instruments that come forward will have to be sure that the scheme administrator both collects and distributes the right level of funding in Wales to make sure that we can maintain our current practices, and you'll know we've just had the workplace recycling regulations, for example, which play into this. I know my colleague the Deputy First Minister has also been having conversations on the deposit-return scheme, for example, making sure that Wales has a specific position there. So, we are very well aware, both with my legal hat on and with our policy hats on—we're working in combination to make sure that the SIs that come forward properly reflect the way that the scheme administrator will be set up and run on a four-nation basis.”
“Diolch, Delyth. That was certainly an issue with the previous Government. In my previous role, I had a very large number of very frustrating discussions with the previous UK Government on this and their inability, really, to see quite how far in advance Wales was and what the effect of that might be. I've had the opportunity to discuss this with the Deputy First Minister, who is now involved in those discussions, and I think it's fair to say that we've got a different attitude, that the scheme administrator will be very cognisant of the different arrangements in each of the different countries. There's recognition that England has a long way to catch up with us, or indeed a large number of other places, and that we will certainly not be able to sign up to something that doesn't make sure that Wales maintains its global lead.”
“Diolch, Delyth. The most effective way of implementing extended producer responsibility for packaging is on a UK-wide basis due to the flows of packaging and packaging waste across borders. The scheme will enable consistency across the UK while enabling Wales to build on its performance as second in the world for recycling.”
“I have to say, though, that one of the things that I'm looking forward to is the law officers meeting, which is happening in Edinburgh at the end of this month, where I do plan to raise the parlous position of legal aid and legal aid practices. We know that there is an advice desert. Pretty much nowhere west of Swansea, really, has any kind of access to criminal justice, and the decimation of legal aid services is largely responsible for that. Many of the practices in rural areas of Wales relied on legal aid in order to develop the specialist services that they also provided. They're not able to make enough money off the specialist services without the legal aid provision. So, it has been absolutely catastrophic, the decision to restrict legal aid in the way that it's been done.”
“Thank you very much, Mick. I just want to start by saying that, of course, we're not starting from scratch, and I'm very grateful that we're able to build on the work that you started when you were Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution, as well as the wealth of expertise from groups such as the Welsh Centre for Crime and Social Justice. As you'd expect, and as I've already mentioned, my colleague the Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice and the Deputy First Minister have already met, and we're about to have yet another meeting on Thursday, I think, to discuss taking forward those issues. We very much welcome the manifesto commitment on exploring the devolution of youth justice and probation services, and, as you'd expect, we're having a conversation with the UK Government on a range of matters around that area.”
“Thank you for that question, Mick. Access to justice is fundamental to the rule of law and it is in real peril in many areas. It is of course largely a reserved area. The previous UK Government left office with multiple urgent issues, all of which need to be addressed.”
“I think, in those circumstances, it's almost always going to be the case that the UK Government will legislate, but, again, with the right devolution-proof settlement in place with Welsh Ministers able to make the regulatory framework that goes with those Bills to make sure that that can be scrutinsed here.”
“I think it's one of the things that the Future Senedd Committee, which the Deputy Presiding Officer is chairing, is very interested in looking at as well. But, unfortunately, there will always be, because of the speed with which some legislation comes forward, the need to make sure that the people of Wales don't fall further behind in their ability to take advantage of the legislation. The only other area where I think it's worth considering is that there are, occasionally, Bills that go through the UK Parliament where it's absolutely essential that there's a single market across the UK, because Wales is just simply not big enough to be able to develop a market on its own and we would very seriously lose out if that market wasn't universal.”
“Because of the speed with which the UK legislation is passing, it's not always possible to replicate the provisions in a suitable legislative vehicle here and a decision has to be made about whether the people of Wales would best benefit from something being made in that way. But we do seek—and I really do hope, and with this current Government, certainly, all the signs are there—to make sure that any such UK Bill is passed with full cognisance of the devolution settlement, with all of the correct processes in place for Welsh Ministers to make decisions, not Secretaries of State, and to make sure that, therefore, any secondary legislation is done with the full scrutiny of the Senedd through one of the processes that we were discussing only yesterday in the committee, in fact. So, I do agree entirely with that.”
“Thank you, Alun. We absolutely do start from the position that legislation in devolved areas should be made in the Senedd, with accessibility of the law being one of the principles underpinning that. You know from previous conversations that we've had that I am very keen to make sure that that does happen. Any decision to agree to provision being made in a UK Bill in line with our principles will involve an analysis of the various factors, including accessibility, but also the potential benefits of bringing forward provision as set out in the principles. There is a capacity issue occasionally.”
“Certainly. The Welsh Government lays legislative consent motions in the Senedd in accordance with Standing Order 29, and is guided by the Cabinet principles on UK Bills when deciding whether to recommend consent to UK Bills.”
“I'm aware of those amendments going through. I'm very happy to say, of course, that we'll consult with the Senedd. That's a very different thing from Senedd approval. But of course, any Government Minister who is dealing with the appointment of a commissioner for Wales on the Crown Estate—which we'd very much welcome, by the way—would consult with the Senedd about it.”
“It’s been my experience personally—I’ve not yet had the experience in this role, Adam, but it’s been my previous experience personally that they’ve been very helpful and collaborative in those conversations.”
“There are several different versions of Crown consent, just to be really clear. We do seek Crown consent where we’re making legislation that impacts on the rights and obligations of the Crown. We’re in communication with them on the other issues, I think. There is a slight difference there. My predecessor is sitting right behind me and is telling me that it was consultation rather than consent in the specific issue that you’re talking about. I am very well aware that the Crown Estate owns quite significant holdings across Wales, actually as do a number of other people—the Church in Wales, for example, and the Church of England in Wales as well. So, we do have occasional need to correspond and get into collaborative discussions with large landowners in Wales because of various interests of the Welsh people.”
“Thank you very much for that question, Adam. I’m not aware, I’m afraid, of whether the Welsh Government has had that specific discussion on the Crown Estate. I will make enquiries and come back to you. We are of course still looking to see what aspects of the Crown Estate could be devolved to Wales and are actually seeking a bigger role in the way that the Crown Estate operates in Wales. I have to say, in my previous roles, I’ve found the Crown Estate to be very willing to have a conversation with us about making sure that they are doing a very good job for Wales in Wales and not just the UK as a homogenous whole. I’m not aware, I’m afraid, of any specific discussions around that. Nor am I actually aware of any specific obligations we have to pay such funding to the Crown Estate, so I’ll have to come back to you on that. FootnoteLink”
“We're not currently having any discussion that I'm aware of with the Law Commission on this point. We have been discussing as a Cabinet the various issues around conflicting policy areas, and that will continue. I will write to you, Mark, about whether we have any specific engagement with the Law Commission on this point, because I'm not aware of it if we do. However, we do have a more general conversation with the Law Commission about the state of the law in Wales and some of the work they're doing in the other jurisdictions, to see if any of it is relevant to Wales. And I can certainly report back to you on that as part of the exchange of correspondence. FootnoteLink”
“The Welsh Government will consider the report very carefully and see what we can do with our current powers, of course. We are very concerned to make sure that criminally exploited children are safeguarded within the system. But I can assure you that it remains our very firm view that the devolution of youth justice would be a very significant step towards us being able to deal with that.”
“Thank you, Mark. It's a very important point and a very important report as well. So, I have had a very recent discussion with my colleagues the Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice and the Deputy First Minister around the further devolution of youth justice. We do think that the further devolution of youth justice would largely help us address some of the issues you mention, because it does allow for a better alignment of Welsh Government policy, social policy in particular, with regard to children and exploited people more generally than the current system does. And we will be taking that forward, between the three of us, actually, in various aspects, in discussing it with both UK Government Ministers and in considering the outcome of the report.”
“I'm also in conversation with my Cabinet colleague on our skills agenda, to see whether there's anything that can be done to make those two programmes come together in some kind of synergy. So, we're very actively working on it. I do think, though, that the advice desert that you speak of, which is definitely evident, is also a function of the absolutely parlous state of the legal system, and, in particular, legal aid, which was absolutely decimated by the last Conservative Government, and will take many decades to recover.”
“Thank you for the question, Mark—it’s a very important question. I have now met with the Law Society. I actually met with them just very shortly after the last question session. We had a long discussion, a very useful discussion, about level 7 apprenticeships, alongside other training issues for the legal profession in Wales. You may know that the legal profession is just transitioning between the old system and the new solicitors qualifying examination system, for example, and we're not yet sure of the impact of that. I'm awaiting a paper from the Law Society, which they're very happy to share with me, I know, on what they consider to be the best way to look at deploying level 7 apprenticeships.”
“We absolutely recognise that, and the forthcoming and extremely generous sustainable farming scheme will no doubt underline that commitment.”
“Well, I just fundamentally disagree with your characterisation of what’s happened in the UK budget. I don’t think, as the First Minister just said in First Minister’s questions, that it’s helpful at all to do the kind of scaremongering that you’ve just done. It affects very few—very few—farms in Wales, and as it happens, the Cabinet only yesterday had a long and involved discussion about the sustainable farming scheme, which my colleague the Deputy First Minister has been working on across the farming communities of Wales for a very considerable time, over a large number of months. It’s been perfectly possible to work in harmony with that sector, because the sector, as the First Minister just said in her questions, is fundamental to the economy of Wales, to the social and cultural value of Wales and to the fabric of Wales.”
“Yes, as a Cabinet, we welcome the significant investment announced in the UK budget and the additional funding this will bring to Wales. The Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Welsh Language will provide more detail later today, and we are working through its impact on delivery of the priorities as part of the preparations for our draft budget.”
“And you’ll know from your time in Government that we are a collaborative Government, with collective Cabinet responsibility, and, obviously, I’m a member of the Cabinet, and I have that collective responsibility as well. We also have to operate in a challenging financial context, and so it’s my role to assist Ministers to come to the right conclusion around how to prioritise the very difficult choices, in conjunction with the First Minister, so that, together, we can make those collaborative, collective decisions that help us deliver for the people of Wales.”
“Yes. That's a very good question, Alun. So, there is a Cabinet office inside the Welsh Government and that Cabinet office works to the First Minister, and my role is to assist that Cabinet office in its functions. It is to make sure that the Cabinet office adequately supports other Ministers and to make sure that they're able to prioritise particularly important delivery points. It's to make sure that the programme for government runs smoothly, and it's to make sure that the Welsh Government delivers on its manifesto commitments, as we always seek to do. We’re a Government that recognises the value of working in partnership together to make meaningful progress at pace on the priorities of the people of Wales.”
“Thank you, Alun. The First Minister set out the Government’s priorities in her statement on 17 September. It remains the responsibility of the relevant portfolio Cabinet Secretaries to lead the delivery of these priorities. My role provides my Cabinet colleagues with additional support, brings people together and finds innovative ways to drive that delivery.”