YouSaid · the spoken record

Alex Bell

lines on the record: 11
first: 2025-12-20
most recent: 2025-12-20
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

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“It may be the highest price ever paid for a painting whose authorship is not certain, and this picture which was comparatively little known is now on view in the newly reopened Sainsbury wing, Larry Keith at the gallery did a wonderful job transforming its appearance so it's now rich in colour. It looked fantastic before, but it's absolutely tremendous, and it's there for Edward to see in perpetuity. So every time I go to the National Gallery, I will make a little pilgrimage to see this wonderful picture in which I played a tiny part, but a very exciting part in its journey. I think the most important takeaway from my point of view is don't shy away from looking at something just because it doesn't have a name. There are other great icons of Western art. There's another one in the National Gallery, the Wilton Diptyk, whose authorship is not clear. It doesn't stop them being some of the most wonderful things we can have a look at.”
2025-12-20 · Intelligence Squared · The Specialist | The Anonymous Altarpiece: Decoding a Renaissance Enigma, with Alex Bell · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Gary then approached us and said that having studied the picture, their interest now went beyond academic interest in trying to help us resolve the attribution, but that the picture was something that they would be really interested in acquiring for the national collection. So we then began a conversation with the owner and a negotiation with the National Gallery, which resulted, I'm very pleased to say, in a sale to the nation of this remarkable work of art. It's a wonderful institution because not only is it the greatest repository of major paintings in London, but it's filled with highly knowledgeable scholars who are generous with their time and share their views on works of art that we have coming up for sale. The painting was acquired by the nation for a what we call a special price of sixteen point four million pounds, which is the net of tax price. But I also suspect”
2025-12-20 · Intelligence Squared · The Specialist | The Anonymous Altarpiece: Decoding a Renaissance Enigma, with Alex Bell · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“The reaction we had when we were showing it to the specialists in this field was universally one of huge excitement. The quality of the picture was extraordinary. The conundrum of who it was by was something that had people scratch in their heads, desperately trying to work out who had actually painted it. Everyone focused on the quirkiness of the artist, and yet this extraordinary high-level quality that he had. As part of that process, we were very fortunate that the National Gallery London offered to take the picture in for further research and compare it with one of the paintings in their collection, a fantastic adoration of the Magi by Jan Gossart, because there was an idea, which is a possibility still, this painting might be a very early work by Jan Gossart. We came to our conclusions, which were that we didn't really know who painted it other than that it was a picture of extraordinary quality.”
2025-12-20 · Intelligence Squared · The Specialist | The Anonymous Altarpiece: Decoding a Renaissance Enigma, with Alex Bell · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“drawings underneath them to set out the design, you can see what essentially looks like a pencil drawing underneath the painter surface that we actually see. Sometimes this can be really useful because artists have very distinctive drawing techniques which are not necessarily reflected in the surface that you're looking at. In this case, it showed very nice confident drawing, but there weren't any idiosyncrasies which allowed us to tie this work with any others.”
2025-12-20 · Intelligence Squared · The Specialist | The Anonymous Altarpiece: Decoding a Renaissance Enigma, with Alex Bell · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“The picture would have been painted. The next thing which was very helpful in determining the likely dating of the picture is the order that the figure on the left of the picture, St. Louis, is wearing, which is the order of Saint-Michel, the order of St. Michael. And that was an order instigated by Louis XI in 1469. So we know it must date after 1469. We also know that that order changed its form in 1516. So we knew that it's very unlikely someone would have been shown wearing an outer date order. So it was very likely the picture dated from before 1516. We also used infrared reflectography. And what infrared does, it's a different wavelength of light and it captures carbon-based material. So you can look through the outer paint layers and because most paintings like this have”
2025-12-20 · Intelligence Squared · The Specialist | The Anonymous Altarpiece: Decoding a Renaissance Enigma, with Alex Bell · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Interesting of those is something called dendrochronology, which is essentially the art of couching tree rings. Most panels which were painted in the northern part of Europe, certainly in northern France and the Netherlands in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries are painted on oak panels made from oak that comes from the eastern Baltic region where the trees are tall and very close grained and produce very good wood for panel making. The panel on which this picture is painted is made up of five oak boards and we were able to make use of the services of the leading dendriac chronologist in the UK, Ian Tyres, after he'd done his analysis, Ian concluded that the earliest date that the panel could have been constructed was around fourteen eighty three and it was probably used by fifteen seventeen. So those dates tied in exactly with where we send”
2025-12-20 · Intelligence Squared · The Specialist | The Anonymous Altarpiece: Decoding a Renaissance Enigma, with Alex Bell · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Commissioned by the Carmelite Order because those saints again were revered by the Carmelites. First saw the picture, I think, probably about 15 or 20 years ago, and it was in a private collection in a house in England. When I first saw the picture was an extraordinary experience because this is one of the most striking paintings you'll ever see, this fantastic dragon with its slobbering mouth at Steyle. But it was clear at the time that there had been a huge debate about who the painting was by and there'd never been any resolution as to whom I might have painted it. About three or four years ago, the owner, who was conscious that this painting which had been in their family form is two centuries in fact, was keen to know whether we could move forward on establishing who painted it and asked if we would be prepared to undertake some study, which of course I was thrilled to do if you think you know who painted a picture, you do need to check that you're correct. When you have a painting of this age, there are certain things you can do to try and narrow down the date range in which it is painted.”
2025-12-20 · Intelligence Squared · The Specialist | The Anonymous Altarpiece: Decoding a Renaissance Enigma, with Alex Bell · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Composition the St. Louis and St. Margaret. The drawing is made in 1602 and on the reverse of it there is an attestation by two Norvatine monks that the work was in the house of Drongen. Now Drongen is a place quite close to Ghent where there was an abbey, but the abbey itself was destroyed in the iconoclasm in the 1570s and it's likely that this work would have been in the refuge house of Drongen. Paintings such as these would have been commissioned usually for religious orders. The fact that the picture was first recorded as having belonged to the house of Drongen, which was a prim satensian house, suggested it may have been commissioned for that order, and the fact that it has both Saint Louis and Margaret in it would be entirely fitting because they were both revered by the order, but equally well it could have been”
2025-12-20 · Intelligence Squared · The Specialist | The Anonymous Altarpiece: Decoding a Renaissance Enigma, with Alex Bell · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Richly decorated in the capitals of the columns are covered with very highly decorated and beautifully carved figures from the Old Testament. And then immediately on either side of the Virgin of Child, you have two beautiful angels. We think the artist is probably Netherlandish, although there are elements about the picture which show parallels with French art at the same time. But the main influences on the artists of this picture seem to be the great Netherlandish artists of previous two generations Jan Van Eyck Embruges and then Hugo van der Hos, who was from Gent. And interestingly the first recorded description of this picture comes in sixteen oh two and that comes from a drawing made by an artist Corvantonius de Succa, who is making portraits of royalty and makes a drawing showing the two principal figures in the”
2025-12-20 · Intelligence Squared · The Specialist | The Anonymous Altarpiece: Decoding a Renaissance Enigma, with Alex Bell · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Picture we're talking about today is a quite remarkable early Netherlandish painting painted around 1500-1505, probably in Ghent in the Low Countries, by an artist that's yet to be identified. It is a very, very striking composition full of color and rich detail. And it shows the virgin and child seated on a throne in front of a cloth of honour. And on either side she's flanked by two principal figures. On her right is St. Douia France, and on the other side is St. Margaret. And St. Margaret is particularly dramatic because she's rising from the body of a very fearsome looking dragon which had swallowed her, apparently, and from which she escaped by tickling its innards with her crucifix.”
2025-12-20 · Intelligence Squared · The Specialist | The Anonymous Altarpiece: Decoding a Renaissance Enigma, with Alex Bell · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Will always find this picture intriguing because it's so good and because there's no consensus about who painted it yes. The thing about great works of art is that they are great works of art and it's almost immaterial who painted them. If you listen to a wonderful piece of music, your first question isn't normally who's the composer, it's how good is this piece of music. And I think it should be the same when we look at works of art.”
2025-12-20 · Intelligence Squared · The Specialist | The Anonymous Altarpiece: Decoding a Renaissance Enigma, with Alex Bell · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT