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Alex Clayton

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2019-03-25
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2019-03-25
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  1. We work as a team here at Spark, but I would say Braise. It's an incredible team and product in the market automation space. They are helping company large brands figure out how to engage with their customers and giving them a single view of their business across channel. And that's something that Salesforce and Adobe and Oracle have been trying to do for many years in failing and braze is really in a great position to own this market.

    2019-03-25 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Spark Capital's Alex Clayton on How The Best Growth Investors Source, Evaluate and Win Deals, Why Market Depth Is Crucial When Analysing Markets & Why Capital Is Only A Temporary Competitive Advantage · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  2. I think for SaaS companies moving fast and breaking things, you can't break things for your customers. You don't get many opportunities. You've got to deliver a great customer experience from the onset.

    2019-03-25 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Spark Capital's Alex Clayton on How The Best Growth Investors Source, Evaluate and Win Deals, Why Market Depth Is Crucial When Analysing Markets & Why Capital Is Only A Temporary Competitive Advantage · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  3. I certainly learned the most from my partners at Spark, but outside the firm near Jaguarwalt Battery, he's been wildly successful, I think, at every stadium investing. Series A's growth, buyouts. I think his uncanny ability to look one, two, three years out and point out to companies both risks in the business and expansion opportunities is really awesome.

    2019-03-25 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Spark Capital's Alex Clayton on How The Best Growth Investors Source, Evaluate and Win Deals, Why Market Depth Is Crucial When Analysing Markets & Why Capital Is Only A Temporary Competitive Advantage · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  4. Not as good as I used to be, but I think competing training and sports teaches you great skills. You learn how to win and lose competition perseverance preparation. It's great.

    2019-03-25 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Spark Capital's Alex Clayton on How The Best Growth Investors Source, Evaluate and Win Deals, Why Market Depth Is Crucial When Analysing Markets & Why Capital Is Only A Temporary Competitive Advantage · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  5. Recent book, Peter Thale Zero to one, summarizes what investors and founders should think about. And I think chapter 12 is really interesting in terms of what founders need to do before they started company and what investors should be asking themselves.

    2019-03-25 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Spark Capital's Alex Clayton on How The Best Growth Investors Source, Evaluate and Win Deals, Why Market Depth Is Crucial When Analysing Markets & Why Capital Is Only A Temporary Competitive Advantage · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  6. An interesting topic always these hundred million dollar rounds that seem to be happening announcing almost every week used to be IPOs. Here's the thing. I think the opportunity that we're investing in is just bigger than it ever has been before. We're really still kind of in the second inning here. I was just reading a report about public cloud penetration. We're only about 7% penetrated in what is a $600 billion plus enterprise IT market. And so if you think about that and you think about all these businesses that are out there, there is still so much value that's going to be created. When we go public in that number that we price at and what our opportunity is is just so much bigger. So it's definitely something we think about. But at the end of the day, the opportunity that we're going after is just leaps and bounds ahead of what people thought about 10 to 15 years ago.

    2019-03-25 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Spark Capital's Alex Clayton on How The Best Growth Investors Source, Evaluate and Win Deals, Why Market Depth Is Crucial When Analysing Markets & Why Capital Is Only A Temporary Competitive Advantage · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  7. Yeah, for sure. No, thanks for reading some of those. I think there's a lot of great data tied up in S1s that isn't exposed, and I'm happy to do it. So it's a good question. So why don't I walk you through some of the metrics of the SaaS companies that went public in 2018? There was about 16 high-growth names, 14 of those made it to the public markets, Qualtrics and Adaptive were required before they started trading. Here are some of the high-level metrics and sort of medians of these businesses. You had to be around about 15 years. You're about 200 million plus in AR, growing around 40%, net dollar expansion rate, sell a 30K product per year on average, have about 1,000 people, and have raised $300 million from venture and growth investors. At IPO last year, those companies, they sold about $250 million of stock at a valuation around $2 billion.

    2019-03-25 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Spark Capital's Alex Clayton on How The Best Growth Investors Source, Evaluate and Win Deals, Why Market Depth Is Crucial When Analysing Markets & Why Capital Is Only A Temporary Competitive Advantage · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  8. They're both related, I think, on a net expansion or net dollar retention, which is kind of the North Star number that we focus on. You want to be 130% plus.

    2019-03-25 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Spark Capital's Alex Clayton on How The Best Growth Investors Source, Evaluate and Win Deals, Why Market Depth Is Crucial When Analysing Markets & Why Capital Is Only A Temporary Competitive Advantage · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  9. If you take net new ARR divided by net burn, if that number is one, you probably want to keep going and spend it at the current rate.

    2019-03-25 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Spark Capital's Alex Clayton on How The Best Growth Investors Source, Evaluate and Win Deals, Why Market Depth Is Crucial When Analysing Markets & Why Capital Is Only A Temporary Competitive Advantage · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  10. It depends on the stage, but let's just say you're kind of between five and 15, 20 of ARR. I think you want to be growing seven and a half to 10% month over month. That would be best in class.

    2019-03-25 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Spark Capital's Alex Clayton on How The Best Growth Investors Source, Evaluate and Win Deals, Why Market Depth Is Crucial When Analysing Markets & Why Capital Is Only A Temporary Competitive Advantage · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  11. I think it depends on whether it's outbound or inbound or inside sales driven or self-serve. I think generally for SMB, I think you can, we're talking ACVs of sub 5K. You probably want to have it closer to 12.

    2019-03-25 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Spark Capital's Alex Clayton on How The Best Growth Investors Source, Evaluate and Win Deals, Why Market Depth Is Crucial When Analysing Markets & Why Capital Is Only A Temporary Competitive Advantage · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  12. 15 to 18 months per high growth businesses is what we like to see. Very rarely everyone talks about 12. It's very hard to get it down to that level.

    2019-03-25 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Spark Capital's Alex Clayton on How The Best Growth Investors Source, Evaluate and Win Deals, Why Market Depth Is Crucial When Analysing Markets & Why Capital Is Only A Temporary Competitive Advantage · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  13. Yeah, it's really hard. And I hate to just say, is it a platform or a feature? I think those are just kind of buzzwords. At the end of the day, it's like, is this product core to business continuity? So what does that mean? If you ask the customer or stakeholder, if you rip this thing out or it shuts off, what's going to happen to their business? I think the best products are things that customers just can't afford to live without. At the growth stage, it's really important to invest in companies that are core of business continuity, in my opinion. And sometimes a customer will say, yeah, like if this product shut down, I couldn't do my job. Or if they took this product away from me, I would quit. And sometimes people say, well, if this product shut down, I could get by. It would just take me a little bit extra time. I think you want to be investing in the former.

    2019-03-25 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Spark Capital's Alex Clayton on How The Best Growth Investors Source, Evaluate and Win Deals, Why Market Depth Is Crucial When Analysing Markets & Why Capital Is Only A Temporary Competitive Advantage · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  14. There's no one way to figure it out, but what we like to do is track them over time. We track every product announcement they do. And then when we really get the nitty gritty of it during a fundraising process, we want to look at their product, their historical product roadmaps, and how far, how much they've executed on those. And then you talk to customers. We ask them, hey, how is their product? At the end of the day, the customers know this. How is their product development been over the past two years since you've been a user of the product? Some will say, wow, every two months they're launching something that really changed my business, that they almost know what I want and I don't have to tell them. Other customers will say, well, they haven't really changed the product in two years. I've asked for a lot of these features, but they've never gotten pushed out. Those are two interesting points and things that we like really hear and look at.

    2019-03-25 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Spark Capital's Alex Clayton on How The Best Growth Investors Source, Evaluate and Win Deals, Why Market Depth Is Crucial When Analysing Markets & Why Capital Is Only A Temporary Competitive Advantage · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  15. Potential in areas like HR and customer success management. I think it's just one of the best stories out there of companies that aren't superior to innovative product. They went public at a $2.2 billion mark. Today, it's almost $3 billion in run rate at a $43 billion market cap. It's just a monster of a business, and they've never been scared to launch new products.

    2019-03-25 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Spark Capital's Alex Clayton on How The Best Growth Investors Source, Evaluate and Win Deals, Why Market Depth Is Crucial When Analysing Markets & Why Capital Is Only A Temporary Competitive Advantage · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  16. Yeah, for sure. We're fortunate to work with those two folks and many others. I think at the end of the day, it's rapid product development. We've seen teams that are great managers but too scared to innovate on product. I think the companies that continue to build and get really big and stay ahead is the ones that have a ton of product velocity over time. All of these, particularly in SaaS, you start with a wedge into the market and you have to expand from that wedge. So there could be four, five, six, seven companies that are eventually going to converge. You need to get there kind of first. And sustain the lead in the wind, you've got to innovate on product. ServiceNow, which I think is the best case study in this. They went public in 2012, 160 million dollar in run rate. It was a single product company. Fast forward to today, they have five plus products. They committed to launching one to new products every year. And new products are 30% of new business and almost 80% of their customers have multi-product deals that they're buying multiple products from ServiceNow. And they're also launching business units that have billion dollar

    2019-03-25 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Spark Capital's Alex Clayton on How The Best Growth Investors Source, Evaluate and Win Deals, Why Market Depth Is Crucial When Analysing Markets & Why Capital Is Only A Temporary Competitive Advantage · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  17. It's certainly a competitive advantage, but I think it's only temporary, but it can still have big impacts on markets. So in the early days, for sure, but I think at some point the rubber meets the road, these companies are going to have to go public. They're going to have to show improving unit economics and leverage in business models. Public market investors are only going to tolerate very high burn if you're growing incredibly quickly. So even while companies are staying private longer and keep raising money, it's not going to be a sustainable advantage at the end of the day because they're going to have to go public and they're going to get every part of the business is going to get scrutinized.

    2019-03-25 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Spark Capital's Alex Clayton on How The Best Growth Investors Source, Evaluate and Win Deals, Why Market Depth Is Crucial When Analysing Markets & Why Capital Is Only A Temporary Competitive Advantage · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  18. The best companies, I feel like once you do 10 to 15 calls and they're all starting to sound the same, you know you sort of figured it out. But we like to do at least that many for every company that we're thinking about invest

    2019-03-25 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Spark Capital's Alex Clayton on How The Best Growth Investors Source, Evaluate and Win Deals, Why Market Depth Is Crucial When Analysing Markets & Why Capital Is Only A Temporary Competitive Advantage · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  19. I understand that on both sides. I think everyone would want to have full information before they make an investment, but I really think that talking to customers is, to me, the most important thing. And so one of the things that gets us really excited about a product is that, hey, we love this product so much. We'll pay two times more than their competitors. That's when you know they're driving an incredible amount of business value and they've really won the hearts and minds of their stakeholders. You talk to some companies and they say, hey, on a related note, the thing that I'd love about this product is that it's a lot cheaper. And the only reason I bought it is because it's actually half the price in all competitors. If you talk to enough customers of all these different products, irrespective of actually meeting with the companies, I think you can actually figure out which product is driving the most business value.

    2019-03-25 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Spark Capital's Alex Clayton on How The Best Growth Investors Source, Evaluate and Win Deals, Why Market Depth Is Crucial When Analysing Markets & Why Capital Is Only A Temporary Competitive Advantage · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  20. For sure. I think at a very high level, if there's no competition, it's not really a large interesting market. I don't think there's any free lunch in B2B or SaaS anymore. Every large market, every large company is going to have competitors. It's going to be hand-to-hand combat at some level. And we try to figure out which one that we want to bet on and who we think is going to win.

    2019-03-25 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Spark Capital's Alex Clayton on How The Best Growth Investors Source, Evaluate and Win Deals, Why Market Depth Is Crucial When Analysing Markets & Why Capital Is Only A Temporary Competitive Advantage · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  21. It's a tough question. As investors, you have to take market risk at some level and believe in what a market could be. Like I mentioned, in growth, I think it's hard to invest in markets that don't yet exist. And so we can take a bet on where we think the market is moving and better in a team and a product, but we can't usually don't invest in a market that just does not exist in any way today. You know, if you think about this on category creation, it's interesting where investors in a company called Pendo, which at the time there was no real market for what they were doing. And now they've got companies who actually understand product. And when that

    2019-03-25 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Spark Capital's Alex Clayton on How The Best Growth Investors Source, Evaluate and Win Deals, Why Market Depth Is Crucial When Analysing Markets & Why Capital Is Only A Temporary Competitive Advantage · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  22. Sure. I mean, you have to invest in companies in some ways are creating or thinking about a market in a different way. You can't just believe in what the market is today. You got to believe in what it could be.

    2019-03-25 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Spark Capital's Alex Clayton on How The Best Growth Investors Source, Evaluate and Win Deals, Why Market Depth Is Crucial When Analysing Markets & Why Capital Is Only A Temporary Competitive Advantage · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  23. The actual service spend wasn't very big, but because of their product, they expanded it massively and have become very successful. On the other side of the question, there's companies that operate in very large and well-defined markets, take email market automation. There's a massive market. And as a growth investor, you have to pick the winner. But in service type, you're saying, hey, the actual market's very small, but the way they're approaching it with their product is fundamentally different. And they've created a big business.

    2019-03-25 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Spark Capital's Alex Clayton on How The Best Growth Investors Source, Evaluate and Win Deals, Why Market Depth Is Crucial When Analysing Markets & Why Capital Is Only A Temporary Competitive Advantage · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  24. Yeah. So it's a SaaS company that offers a suite for home services businesses for HVAC plumbers, electricians. So if you think about it, typically investors aren't waking up in the morning and saying, hey, I'm going to look at the software market that serves plumbers, HVACs, electricians. From the outside, the serve spend for SaaS products in that market, not very big. Maybe a few hundred million, couple hundred million in size. But their product has a ton of depth. It does marketing, fleet management, payments, call tracking. It's sort of like Oracle and Salesforce and Workday all wrapped in one for their own customers. They basically do an encompass every business process for these businesses. And they weren't just taking spend from products in industry. They're taking spend away from horizontal marketing and software vendors, fleet tracking software, call tracking software. And because they build an all-in-one suite that encompasses every business process, they expanded the market significantly. I think they recently raised it. They reported $1.6 billion valuation. I think it's just a great case study of a company that their current

    2019-03-25 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Spark Capital's Alex Clayton on How The Best Growth Investors Source, Evaluate and Win Deals, Why Market Depth Is Crucial When Analysing Markets & Why Capital Is Only A Temporary Competitive Advantage · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  25. Great question. Why don't I answer this by using an example of a company? We're not investors in this, but I think it's a great case study. It's a business called service Titan. Are you familiar with them?

    2019-03-25 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Spark Capital's Alex Clayton on How The Best Growth Investors Source, Evaluate and Win Deals, Why Market Depth Is Crucial When Analysing Markets & Why Capital Is Only A Temporary Competitive Advantage · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  26. Yeah, we spend a lot of time on this. And of course, everyone wants a big market, but we take a few layers deeper of a look on here. So this is a nuanced question. I think markets can be defined in a few different ways. So let me walk you through a few points for a typical SaaS company. So at the very high level, there's the total market. Like if you take what is the market if every customer who could buy your product bought your product, a lot of these businesses in the RS1 will come up with a number here in the many tens of billions of dollars. Then it's the serve market. So what does Gartner Forrester say if you add up all the revenue of all the players? What does that number look like today? And I think this is one of the most important things in an area where we spend a lot of time trying to figure out is that while the total potential spend could be larger, what is the actual market depth? So say the problem that your product is solvent is only relevant to a small portion of the market, that makes it harder. So as the growth industry is really important, companies can reach 10, 20, 30 million of ARR, but if the market depth isn't there, they can really slow down.

    2019-03-25 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Spark Capital's Alex Clayton on How The Best Growth Investors Source, Evaluate and Win Deals, Why Market Depth Is Crucial When Analysing Markets & Why Capital Is Only A Temporary Competitive Advantage · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  27. Sure. It's a great question. It's very nuanced. Like I said, the best companies don't need the money. They don't have time to meet with investors when they're not raising. But in order to be in a position to win as an investor, you have to get meetings when they're not raising. So it's pretty tricky. I think for me, the thing is if a lot of these fundraisers come together really quickly, if investors figure out a way to get a few meetings, if the founder talks to three or four people, one tries to make an investment. The rest of the people don't get involved that weren't there. And I think for founders, they shouldn't always be raising, but they should only typically meet with investors if they're going to actually give them tangible business value, whether that's intros, customer intros, or prospect intros, recruiting. I think CEOs should take them up on the offer if investors are willing to do that.

    2019-03-25 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Spark Capital's Alex Clayton on How The Best Growth Investors Source, Evaluate and Win Deals, Why Market Depth Is Crucial When Analysing Markets & Why Capital Is Only A Temporary Competitive Advantage · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  28. I think it's different. And what I would say in the growth stage, rarely would companies ever come to you. In many cases, we're demonstrating value for businesses for many hours. It takes hours just to get a meeting. We're talking to customers, prospects, doing intros. This takes a lot of time. I think that's certainly common in the early stage, but in growth, I feel like we sometimes tend to build relationships with founders over many years. At the end of the day, the best companies in growth don't need the money. And so that makes it pretty tough. And I think if we meet a company we love and they're in the middle of a fundraise, it's kind of shame on us for not getting there earlier.

    2019-03-25 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Spark Capital's Alex Clayton on How The Best Growth Investors Source, Evaluate and Win Deals, Why Market Depth Is Crucial When Analysing Markets & Why Capital Is Only A Temporary Competitive Advantage · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  29. I think the best investors do both. At the end of the day, the ability to do both find a company early and figure out if this is going to be a winner in market. That's probably more important where, hey, I don't have the luxury as a growth investor to wake up and say, hey, I have a thesis about emergency response software. And I can go spend three months doing that. At the end of the day, I kind of have to look at where the market's being pulled and being able to understand the themes and where investment's going, even at the very earliest stages in Angel or Seed funding. I think that's something that's really critical that you can derive themes from as well. But I think you have to do both.

    2019-03-25 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Spark Capital's Alex Clayton on How The Best Growth Investors Source, Evaluate and Win Deals, Why Market Depth Is Crucial When Analysing Markets & Why Capital Is Only A Temporary Competitive Advantage · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  30. They get leverage as they grow, but near the days you really have to build out the team. That's more opportunistic. You're looking for momentum. And then we go out and figure out a market. Then there's the thematic side, and we certainly have some areas that we're really excited about here. For example, we have a thesis around the future of work and how knowledge workers are becoming more efficient. That has led to some investments in companies like Slack and Trello. Moreover, I think software, we're seeing it permeate every single business process within an enterprise. And we evaluate a bunch of different areas. Take customer engagement five, seven years ago wasn't really a market. Just works another one of our investments, is doing this with beautiful software. And then we're also constantly talking to CEOs, engineers, PMs, technologists, other operators about what are their favorite products and what's driving value for the business. And then we have networks of early stage investors. So that was a lot, but I

    2019-03-25 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Spark Capital's Alex Clayton on How The Best Growth Investors Source, Evaluate and Win Deals, Why Market Depth Is Crucial When Analysing Markets & Why Capital Is Only A Temporary Competitive Advantage · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  31. I agree. I do agree with them. There are certainly some nuances between early stage and sort of venture growth, what I'm doing. So I guess sourcing, definitely my favorite part of the job. I think as a growth investor, your ability to source and get in the best companies is what sets investors apart. And so I'll describe in two ways how we see it. It's both opportunistic and thematic. So at Spark Growth, most of the companies we invest in have previous venture funding. And so every single Series A or Series B that gets announced in the market, we want to evaluate that company at some level. So if you're an early stage SaaS company, you can't really hide if you're growing fast. People can check your LinkedIn headcount, see how fast you're hiring on the website, what type of people, if you're a Series AS company, you have 35 employees, you go to 65 in three months and you're hiring eight AEs on your website. You should probably meet them ASAP. Clearly whatever they're doing is really working. But in the early days, particularly SaaS companies scale with people, whether it's PMs, AEs, account managers, SDRs.

    2019-03-25 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Spark Capital's Alex Clayton on How The Best Growth Investors Source, Evaluate and Win Deals, Why Market Depth Is Crucial When Analysing Markets & Why Capital Is Only A Temporary Competitive Advantage · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  32. For sure. So I think I was fortunate to start my career at Redpoint. They have an incredible team track record, as you just described. They're in companies like Zendes, Twilio, Stripe, and Looker. I was on the growth team there. And so while Tomash was on the early stage fund, we got to work together a lot. And I think the biggest takeaway I learned from him was just learning how to be a data-driven investor, particularly in enterprise software. While metrics are only part of the equation, I think it's a critical piece. And I got to learn from one of the best. For example, the first week I was there was when Tomash closed the Looker series A. I think now they have over 600 and they've raised hundreds of millions of dollars. So working beside him and seeing some of that was awesome.

    2019-03-25 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Spark Capital's Alex Clayton on How The Best Growth Investors Source, Evaluate and Win Deals, Why Market Depth Is Crucial When Analysing Markets & Why Capital Is Only A Temporary Competitive Advantage · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  33. For sure. So I actually got my introduction to the industry when I was a Goldman Sachs. I was in the investment banking group in San Francisco as an analyst for two years. My first day on the job, I was actually staffed on the Yelp IPO, and that became a big part of my life for the next 12 months. They had early investors like Vessemer and Benchmark. After that process, I knew I wanted to work with high-growth businesses and being able to marry a corporate finance skill set with companies I was really excited about felt like the right area for me. I went to Redpoint Ventures, Post Goldman and their Growth Fund. And then I was there for three years, and I've been at Spark for almost three years as well.

    2019-03-25 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Spark Capital's Alex Clayton on How The Best Growth Investors Source, Evaluate and Win Deals, Why Market Depth Is Crucial When Analysing Markets & Why Capital Is Only A Temporary Competitive Advantage · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source