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Alexander Mikaberidze

lines on the record: 84
first: 2022-07-13
most recent: 2022-07-13
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

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“Yes, and that's, I think, yeah, I would agree with that to a great deal in that ultimately, usually I end my lectures in my Napoleonic history courses by saying that ultimately Napoleon is a loser in that he lost the war, he lost the empire, he ended life on that God-forsaken place in Atlantic. The impact that he left stays with that in that in the post-Napoleonic period, the European powers have to grapple with his legacy. Even though his changes, for example, are Reversed in”
2022-07-13 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Alexander Mikaberidze - Napoleon, War, Progress, and Global Order · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Crimean War, and then with a bigger conflicts of 60s and 70s. But nonetheless, we have about four decades of peace. Well, we have to deal with this kind of guerrilla 800-pound guerrilla in the room, and that is the British industrial might. And one of the ways we can deal with that is by maintaining the protective barriers of tariffs and by increasing the role of the state in the economic development. And here your listeners can read up on, for example, the economic theories that Friedrich Liszt was the great proponent of, which indeed championed the role of the state in promoting economic prosperity, in promoting industrialization. And many European states followed exactly that model.”
2022-07-13 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Alexander Mikaberidze - Napoleon, War, Progress, and Global Order · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“In France, we, for example, see that after the turbulent years of revolution, Napoleonic centralization and the enforcement completely changed the relationship between the people and the state. And that includes, for example, in areas like tax payments, right, tax collection, which increase exponently as Napoleon actually set up the system that held people accountable for it. And that made, I think, the continental power, so the continental societies far more willing to accept the role of the state. Now, there is another kind of fault to this in this. And that goes that often Napoleonic periods once the war is over and now we are at the period of peace and will last several decades until 1850s.”
2022-07-13 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Alexander Mikaberidze - Napoleon, War, Progress, and Global Order · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Hardly. Of course, we have to bear in mind that unlike United States, let's say, or to a great degree Britain, continental European history centers around strong authoritarian monarchical rule. Here we see kind of dictonomy, of example, of the French absolutism with the British parliamentarian limited monarchical development. Or further east we go in Prussia, for example, we see the development of, again, absolutist tendencies in the cameraist system or further to the east in Russia, of course, the autocratic monarchical government that predates, of course, Napoleon. So there is a long history of a strong status approach to it. Now, what Napoleon tried to do is he tried to make the state efficient. And in that, he was, I mean, that's actually one of the most fascinating things about him is kind of increasing the centralization, the efficiency, the enforcement of the state.”
2022-07-13 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Alexander Mikaberidze - Napoleon, War, Progress, and Global Order · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“parts of Europe where people suspected that vaccination was part of the government, a kind of secret plan to control them, which will strike us as a very modern thing, right? Conspiracy theorists today are not that original.”
2022-07-13 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Alexander Mikaberidze - Napoleon, War, Progress, and Global Order · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Now, today we all like to complain about taxes and about the government overrich, right? So why are we kind of surprised that people in early 1800s would have been complaining about this? Some of it might strike us quite. Unusual, but in a way or ways that, for example, one of the great legacies of Napoleon is the vaccination program. I think that is especially relevant in the last two years, right? The government's effort to vaccinate, to boost and all this. And even today, we know that people were resisting it. Napoleon promoted a great vaccination program for smallpox, and he started with his own child. He vaccinated his troops. then kind of rolled this program to the territories that he occupied. But in many areas, the people resisted vaccination because it represented government overreach, because it represented...”
2022-07-13 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Alexander Mikaberidze - Napoleon, War, Progress, and Global Order · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Is progress always a good thing? That's I usually kind of pose the question to students. And usually the answer is, oh yeah, of course, progress is a good thing. But what if the progress comes in intrusive manner and it changes the way of life that you are used to, you're comfortable with, then the question becomes whether the progress is actually a good thing. And what I mean by that is that in places like Spain or Italy or in Poland Napoleonic reforms as progressives might argue, right, they were threatened to bring about more centralized, therefore more intrusive power of the state. It threatened to bring about more effective tax collection, more effective administration. It effectively threatened to create A system that held citizens more accountable.”
2022-07-13 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Alexander Mikaberidze - Napoleon, War, Progress, and Global Order · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So it's a complex question, but it's an interesting question to ponder. And in my own courses, when I teach students, I usually ask to look at what Napoleon tried to implement. On the legal side of it, with Napoleonic code, go through the provisions of Napoleonic Code. And there is a lot that can be qualified as progressive for this period, right? If we set aside important issues on which Napoleon was not as progressive, for example, on the issue of the equality of the women or the issue of the property rights of certain children born out of Wedlock and all that. But if we look at some of the core elements of the Napoleonic reforms, they are quite Progressive. However,”
2022-07-13 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Alexander Mikaberidze - Napoleon, War, Progress, and Global Order · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Now, what I mean by Napoleonic reforms, this is usually centralization of authority, this is professionalization of administration, this is enforcement of new administrative institutions. And of course, as you mentioned, the new legal framework, Napoleonic Code was this transformation, this revolutionary change through a legal code. How long did they stay? That's the question. What's the actual impact on the ground? And that's where you see once you scratch the surface that the impact is not as uniform and much dependent on the willingness of the local population to accept this change.”
2022-07-13 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Alexander Mikaberidze - Napoleon, War, Progress, and Global Order · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Or think about Poland, let's say, or in Spain, right? So there is far shorter duration of the Napoleonic impact and there is only so much you can accomplish in that few years. And so that's where I would argue is that yes, Napoleon, the introduction of Napoleonic reforms in many cases where helpful in changing the system.”
2022-07-13 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Alexander Mikaberidze - Napoleon, War, Progress, and Global Order · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“But also because of the taxes, requisitioning, occupational costs that the war brought on these regions. However, if you look beyond this kind of, and that's where in the book what I'm arguing is that the impact of Napoleon needs to be qualified, you have to approach it very carefully because it depends on particular region and on the duration of the French presence. So the areas that I just mentioned stayed under French control for much longer. For example, in Belgian case, we talk about from 1794 until 1814, right? There's a much longer duration in time. Compare that, for example, to Calabria in southern Italy, where the French arrive in 1806. They face vociferous resistance from the local population, and they really can't overcome it until 1801. And then in 1814, they are gone. So how much can you accomplish in four years?”
2022-07-13 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Alexander Mikaberidze - Napoleon, War, Progress, and Global Order · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I think it's too generalized kind of statement. And if you dig deeper, I think you'll see more complex reality. One thing is that Many of the areas that the author was referring to as having the economic growth and all, they had the preconditions for economic prosperity, for industrialization before Napoleon showed up. So usually the case studies for that are low countries, right? Belgium, Dutch Republic, the Rhineland, the northern Italy areas around Turin and Milan. But those were already urbanized, developed regions that were on the way to industrialization. In fact, in those areas, you can argue, and many of my colleagues have done, the Napoleonic Wars actually hampered the industrial growth because of the direct effect of the war, right? The fighting and the destruction.”
2022-07-13 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Alexander Mikaberidze - Napoleon, War, Progress, and Global Order · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Try to promote industries within the safety so that the British couldn't compete with them directly. And we see the kind of haphazard impact of his policies. There are some areas where it worked. And in the post-war period, places like Belgium, Netherlands, southern Germany, northern France, northern Italy, the industrial development took off. But also, but on the other hand, there are areas where the war had a far greater impact and the continental system with its restrictions actually delayed the industrial development rather than promote it.”
2022-07-13 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Alexander Mikaberidze - Napoleon, War, Progress, and Global Order · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Desire to create United States of Europe effectively an early version of the European Union. But we have to bear in mind that Napoleon's vision of European Union was an imperial construct where France was supreme. But within that European Union, so to speak, right? Napoleon did want to use the terrors, the protective barriers, as a way of promoting industrial growth. And that's where Napoleonic Wars is interesting because on one hand, the fighting, the military devastation that takes place in places like Spain, like Germany, like Russia, does affect the local manufacturing, does affect local industries. But on the other hand, Napoleon, by creating this kind of vacuum or the bubble, no vacuum, but bubble around certain areas of Europe.”
2022-07-13 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Alexander Mikaberidze - Napoleon, War, Progress, and Global Order · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Napoleon understood that opening up market, that letting the British goods flow will be absolutely catastrophic to French interests, not to mention to the Nascent industries in the territories that he controlled, which is why he comes up with this continental system. And I want to, and that's what kind of my Pat Peeve in that I am very animated about distinguishing between continental blockade, which was a policy designed to deal with the British commerce and a continental system which was a far more encompassing policy that Napoleon pursued towards creating a new reality, political, economic reality in Europe later on in Senelena Island when he's exiled, he does talk about his”
2022-07-13 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Alexander Mikaberidze - Napoleon, War, Progress, and Global Order · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“The second point is that France had prerequisites for industrialization, and there is no fascinating new study on why the Industrial Revolution didn't take place in France in 1760, 70s and 80s like it did in Britain. But that's a separate kind of topic. However, once the Industrial Revolution took off in Britain, it gave the British an enormous advantage in terms of their economic parity, in terms of their economic or financial relations with the continent. And it left, therefore, the continental powers in this position where the only way they really can respond to the British threat, or the economic threat, is by, as you pointed out, creating barriers, tariffs.”
2022-07-13 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Alexander Mikaberidze - Napoleon, War, Progress, and Global Order · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So, in the book, I devote an entire chapter to what I call war through other means, and that is the economic side of the war. In fact, I wish I had more space to devote to. In fact, that's one of the topics I'm working on today or nowadays, and that is to explore the economic dimensions of the war, which usually is ignored even though it's absolutely instrumental to it. There are a couple of things to kind of address right away. One is that industrialization began in Britain before the war. We know that the elements of the industrial development are already present in Britain in 1760s, 70, certainly by 1780s. Britain is far more industrialized than the continental powers.”
2022-07-13 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Alexander Mikaberidze - Napoleon, War, Progress, and Global Order · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Loses virtually every possession it has outside Europe that is in India, that is broadly in Indian Ocean, certainly the Caribbean, and of course you refer to the loss of Louisiana in 1834. So that means that by comparison, France finds itself in a much weaker position in the years to come. Later on, we'll kind of sustain this narrative of restoration of the national grandeur, which will justify, for example, colonial enterprise or colonial projects that France will unleash in Algiers in 1830, and then sub-Saharan Africa in later periods, right, as a part of that, the reconstruction of the imperial construct.”
2022-07-13 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Alexander Mikaberidze - Napoleon, War, Progress, and Global Order · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Which was designed to isolate the British or cut them off from the continent in terms of their ability to sell goods. One of the reasons why Britain was able to survive this economic war was precisely because it could rely on its colonial presence elsewhere. And of course have the ability, the naval capacity to ensure that its commercial routes, its lifelines continue to sustain its war effort. And the reverse is true for France. And that is one of the crucial stories of Nepal, a revolutionary Napoleon era is the collapse of what we call First French Empire.”
2022-07-13 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Alexander Mikaberidze - Napoleon, War, Progress, and Global Order · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Certainly helps in conducting the war. And that is true in Napoleonic period because the trade that Britain conducted both with India and with China was extremely lucrative. And there are excellent studies done on the extent of this trade and on the value of the volume and value of the commerce that was conducted with Asia, which is one of the crucial parts of the British economic endurance kind of resilience. Because in 18, once Napoleon consolidated his control of the continent, we know that in 1806 embarks on the system that we refer to as continental blockade.”
2022-07-13 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Alexander Mikaberidze - Napoleon, War, Progress, and Global Order · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“No, of course having colonies means having access to resources, resources both in terms of manpower but also resources in terms of commodities, natural resources that sustain your economy, your war effort to kind of deviate from maybe Napoleonic era When we talk about that other great war, because Napoleonic wars for much of the 19th century was the Great War only to be superseded by World War I, but think about the British imperial involvement in World War I. When we talk about Britain at war, we really mean the empire and it needs to be pointed out that more Indian troops served in that war than the actual British troops and certainly the expeditions to, for example, Iraq involved thousands of Indian forces. So that having an empire”
2022-07-13 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Alexander Mikaberidze - Napoleon, War, Progress, and Global Order · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Using the French scare to impose the British kind of interest on the local states, I extremely successful in that by 1805 much of southern and eastern Indian continent, subcontinent is on the British rule. Now, different shades of it, direct or indirect rule, but nonetheless it's under the British influence. And that process will only continue in the subsequent years so that by 1819 you see the extension of the British authority in the north to areas like Ud in northern parts of the subcontinent. And of course the encroachment on the Marwatha territory, which will be ultimately consumed by 18 and early 20s. Hence we see the establishment of the British Rule in India.”
2022-07-13 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Alexander Mikaberidze - Napoleon, War, Progress, and Global Order · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“That Wesley waged against the local Indian states that refused to trot the British line. So I remind you the war between the British and the Mysore, the infamous storming of Seringabatam and the killing of its ruler of Tipu Sultan or the subjugation of Nizam of Haiderabat, who is forced to accept his subsidiary relationship with the British, or the confrontation ultimately between the British forces and the Maratha Confederation during which in 1803, for example, you have that famous Battle of Assembly where Arthur Wellesley, Richard's younger brother and future greatest British military commander of the age, Duke Wellington, distinguished himself. And so these policies of”
2022-07-13 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Alexander Mikaberidze - Napoleon, War, Progress, and Global Order · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Constantly of this French threat as if it is real, as if it is imminent, even though we know that France was not in a position to directly threaten the British positions in India at this time, the French hands are tied in Europe. But nonetheless, the perception is important because it is under this pretense of confronting the French threat that the wealthy then embarks on empire building. And in the book, I refer to Wellesley as probably the most Napoleonic of this British statesman of this period because his vision is that of an empire in India which can be built within the context of confronting of this alleged friend threat. And so we see the wars, the campaign.”
2022-07-13 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Alexander Mikaberidze - Napoleon, War, Progress, and Global Order · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“existed, but it's the perceptions of threat that Britain saw, the British officials saw. Not all of them. For example, when we look at 1798, 1799 period, you have some British officials such as Granville, who was a foreign secretary, arguing that the threat, direct threat to British presence in India is exaggerated and kind of embellished and that Britain should focus its efforts on confronting France and Europe. And then you have colonial officials, of course, the British East India Company officials steadfastly arguing that the threat is real, that French are coming. And in fact, if you read the letters of Richard Wellesley, who is appointed as a Governor General of British East India Company in 1798, he speaks”
2022-07-13 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Alexander Mikaberidze - Napoleon, War, Progress, and Global Order · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Was a vibrant trade going on that in many respects sustained the nascent industrial revolution in Britain. So from the British point of view, India is a crucial asset, at least the presence in India is a crucial asset. But it is an asset that from the British point of view is constantly under threat from other powers, both local, such as, for example, moral empire until it experienced the decline in the mid-18th century and then the Maratha Confederation. And external threats, most notably the French who've been kind of nibbling at their heels all through the 18th century. And so to me, the interesting aspect of this is not necessarily the actual threat.”
2022-07-13 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Alexander Mikaberidze - Napoleon, War, Progress, and Global Order · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Now, of course, the English president So by then, the British East India Company had already established presence in India, especially in the northeastern part of it, in Bengal. And, of course, India, oftentimes people forget just how huge and how diverse and how populous this subcontinent is. And notice that I use the term subcontinent, not region, because again, it's enormous in scale. In fact, the estimates usually point that India at this time has a population of well over 120 million people. And this would have been a huge area for the British market for their goods, but also as a source of the goods for their own commerce. And we know that before revolutionary wars,”
2022-07-13 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Alexander Mikaberidze - Napoleon, War, Progress, and Global Order · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“The developments in India under the leadership of British East India Company led by Richard Wellesley from 1798 to 1805, right? These seven years of crucial importance because in many respects the foundation for what will be the Raj is laid exactly at this time. And same applies to, let's say, extending our narrative to North America, South America, where this period saw the collapse of the Spanish imperial rule and the emergence of a new political reality that will continue to reverberate and kind of affect us to the present day. The fact that we have such a political reality of independent nation states from Mexico down to Argentina all are part of the legacy of Of the Napoleonic period.”
2022-07-13 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Alexander Mikaberidze - Napoleon, War, Progress, and Global Order · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“troops at Leipzig, there are well over half a million troops fighting for the future of Europe, that by comparison, let's say dealing with events in Russo-Iranian war where you have on average 10 to 15,000 men engaged, it kind of not sexy now, right? Not big enough. So I think that's also plays a role. And the charisma of this great personalities that were engaged also kind of excuse it towards Eurocentric narrative. And that's exactly the point that I was trying to make in the book is that that should not be the reason to avoid our discussion elsewhere. And as you pointed out for India, this is the moment of tremendous importance and not to include”
2022-07-13 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Alexander Mikaberidze - Napoleon, War, Progress, and Global Order · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Most of what is written on Europe for linguistic reasons, for example, to write the books of global nature, global historical narrative, you need to have diversity of language skills that includes not just the French and British, which by now is taken for granted, but Spanish and German and Russian. And if you expand your narrative even further to the east, then you have to involve the Ottoman and Iranian historical traditions as well, right? And of course, that is a colossal challenge. And I think that is oftentimes pushes people away from such a narrative. And also that the events in Europe itself, in the period of such colossal scale, so we talk about the battles that involve, for example, at Borodino, there are quarter million.”
2022-07-13 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Alexander Mikaberidze - Napoleon, War, Progress, and Global Order · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, it's a very enticing field. Compare Napoleon and you told me the video will be recorded, right? So you see the wall behind me which has parts of the British propaganda, part of the French propaganda, and of course the gift from my students, Napoleon's cutout. But oftentimes compared Napoleon to a siren because for those who first approached the shores of Napoleonic history, they are drawn by the lure of that sweet song of Napoleonic legend, right? That the vision of a romantic kind of tightened the Prometheus whose thought to bring about change and was ultimately defeated and exiled to Iraq in the middle of nowhere. And I think Napoleonic legend exercised such a lure that there is always Enough people interested in it to write about it, but it has a downfall or kind of side effect, and that is”
2022-07-13 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Alexander Mikaberidze - Napoleon, War, Progress, and Global Order · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“This period is written from the French and British points of view and focused on the great transformations taking place inside Europe. And that is perfectly a worthwhile enterprise, but I thought that it offers a very narrow snapshot of the period because Napoleonic, Rolishner, Napoleonic period is the moment when we see the modernity setting and not just in Europe, but gradually extending to various parts of the world. It changes the trajectory that many of these world regions followed. And I thought in fresher study was needed to flesh that out.”
2022-07-13 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Alexander Mikaberidze - Napoleon, War, Progress, and Global Order · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Huge transformations that this period witnessed in Caucasus were not properly addressed. And so the immediate cause and kind of spark to write this book was desire to kind of correct the wrong. But it also then grew from there to get a better understanding of the field. Because Napoleonic era is one of the most written historical periods. There are thousands and thousands of volumes, in fact. Napoleon is probably the most written about historical figure period. The last estimate was that at least maybe 400,000 volumes have been written just about him. There has to be a really good reason to write another book about this topic. And my gradually my realization was that almost everything that has been written”
2022-07-13 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Alexander Mikaberidze - Napoleon, War, Progress, and Global Order · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yes. Thank you so much for having me. It's a delight to be here. I'm originally from a country of Georgia, and I usually tell people that, no, it's not the state of Georgia, right? The country of Georgia in Eastern Europe. A small state sandwiched between Russia and Turkey with a rather complex and diverse and turbulent history. But there's this most small nations, it is oftentimes kind of lost on the pages of history. And of course, when I embarked on this career to become a professional historian, I've always wanted to see where my people kind of fit in the larger scheme of things. And I was oftentimes frustrated, especially working on the revolutionary Napoleonic era that the”
2022-07-13 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Alexander Mikaberidze - Napoleon, War, Progress, and Global Order · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source