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Andrew Sullivan

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2020-10-30

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2020-10-30

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1. “I think it's because he sees himself sort of in a lawsuit where you never concede anything and until the very last minute when you, if you're forced to settle, you may be forced to settle, but you'd certainly never give away any leverage in advance, which of course might be a sensible strategy if you are a private actor within a system which is already guaranteed some basic security. When you're actually the president of the United States and you're putting the entire system at risk, I just think there's an incredible complacency about the stability of the system, which really does help reinforce to me who I think himself as a sort of classical conservative just how anti-conservative this Republican movement It is absolutely contemptuous of procedures, norms, and institutions has absolutely no concern for their preservation.”

   2020-10-30 · Making Sense with Sam Harris · #223 — A Conversation with Andrew Sullivan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

2. “I haven't seen a clear, absolutely unequivocal except maybe from Romney statement from people with power saying this is unacceptable and must be stopped. They tell us that it's not going to happen. He's just joking. This constant, he's just joking stuff. Again, it suggests that we're watching a miniseries rather than living in an actual functioning republic.”

   2020-10-30 · Making Sense with Sam Harris · #223 — A Conversation with Andrew Sullivan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

3. “To what he will and will not do. It is a constant process of shock. And when you look at classical depictions of crazy tyrants, this is their capacity. It's part of what maintains their power. They never tell you the limits on what they can do. They always keep you guessing. We'll see what happens is one of his favorite phrases, which is a threat. It's not an observation. And his refusal to ever put any outer limits on what he can and cannot do in the terms of this culture is unique and it is terrifying. And I'm sorry, but Republicans and conservatives who sort of roll their eyes at this as if what they're witnessing is entertainment.”

   2020-10-30 · Making Sense with Sam Harris · #223 — A Conversation with Andrew Sullivan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

4. “But not, he hasn't created it entirely himself, but he has definitely made it worse. We're talking about probably the most dangerous period in modern American history in terms of the stability of the actual regime, of the stability of the system, when the person in charge of the system openly speaks of no responsibility for maintaining it. In fact, because again, I come back to this pathological narcissism, he cannot see outside his own personal pride, ego, and self-interest, that we are still in a terribly precarious situation in this country. And I will not breathe easily or sleep well until he is removed from office. And I felt that way from the beginning because I can't ever see because he's never given us any indication of any limit, any limit.”

   2020-10-30 · Making Sense with Sam Harris · #223 — A Conversation with Andrew Sullivan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

5. “Yes. And the truth is that I am genuinely frightened of a close result which he refuses to acknowledge. I'm genuinely frightened of an unbelievably specious attempt to call the election on Election Night, regardless of whether we've completed or voted or have counted all or even a majority of the votes. The fact that I'm afraid that he could indeed call for violence in the streets in his defense, that he could stoke and would talk about this as if he weren't ultimately responsible for law and order in the United States is simply unique in the history of the United States or unique in the history of Western democracy, actually. And given the passions that he has created, and given also the racial fault line that he has mined and given the radicalization that he is also in.”

   2020-10-30 · Making Sense with Sam Harris · #223 — A Conversation with Andrew Sullivan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

6. “I'm passionate about this, but at this point, like, no, fuck you. That is not tolerable. No party should support it. No one can tolerate it. And yet he does. And by doing that, for those of us like me who are institutionally very conservative who believe that liberal democracy is fragile, needs to be defended. This is a crime against our very system of government. The fact that this man can sympathize with and openly support people who are engaging in the most hideous repressive measures like Putin or Xi, or he could actually, we're told, tell Xi, don't worry about putting all those Uyghurs in concentration. I'd be with you if I were over there. This is sorry, but it's just not a personality flaw. It's a critical undermining argument to everything that we believe in in the West.”

   2020-10-30 · Making Sense with Sam Harris · #223 — A Conversation with Andrew Sullivan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

7. “The fact that this man is even holding the stability of our system as a weapon shows an unbelievable level of recklessness and irresponsibility and a true danger to everything. I'm so tired of being told right now that you overestimate it, you hyperventilated it, he hasn't been a dictator, blah, blah, blah. And this is a very sort of world-weary sense. Yes, but what are we supposed to do? When a president says I may not abide by the results of an election, are we supposed to sit there and say, oh, well, we know he doesn't really mean that or we'll be fine. No, that's not our responsibility. Why are we being put in this position at all? How dare this man? Coming to our democracy and threaten it. This way. It is unprecedented.”

   2020-10-30 · Making Sense with Sam Harris · #223 — A Conversation with Andrew Sullivan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

8. “Election, and neither you nor I can know for sure that one of the candidates, in fact, the president, will wait patiently for all the votes to be tallied. There will be no question that there will be a clear and obvious transfer of power, that we will be resolved who will have this big conflict, but it will be resolved and we will move forward. The fact that we don't know that for sure.”

   2020-10-30 · Making Sense with Sam Harris · #223 — A Conversation with Andrew Sullivan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

9. “Equally undermine confidence in a liberal democracy, this seems as if it's all to some great tribal struggle. And if it is that tribal struggle, and you know you hate those people, well, maybe he's tolerable. Maybe he's just simply a weapon at hand. And given the sort of way in which those elites have never truly copped to their responsibility for some of the worst decisions in the last 30 years in this country, especially insofar as they affected regular working class white people, I think is integral to understanding his appeal as a concept. And I can't, I sympathize with that. I really do. And I've tried to learn from it. At the same time, he is so despicable and so dangerous. I mean, the fact that we are sitting here a week before an”

   2020-10-30 · Making Sense with Sam Harris · #223 — A Conversation with Andrew Sullivan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

10. “Then it works. And I do think there is, and I do think the way in which the media has responded and in which other institutions have responded, including things like the FBI and CIA and the mainstream media in its broad sense, and even the judiciary who have gone nuts. They have overplayed their hands in ways that”

    2020-10-30 · Making Sense with Sam Harris · #223 — A Conversation with Andrew Sullivan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

11. “And I understand that. That's the thing. I totally get that. They honestly drive me up the wall. I get into irrational states of loathing of. Of some of these people, and they're in my class, and they are all around me. I live with them, and at some point I'm just, God damn these people. And if, and he is, if you imagine that people are just blinding themselves to who he is and just are so consumed by loathing contempt for the elites, then you can see how psychologically you can support him without thinking too much about him. And he is, if you think of him as one giant middle finger.”

    2020-10-30 · Making Sense with Sam Harris · #223 — A Conversation with Andrew Sullivan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

12. “I think the way people, and this is just a guess, because I'm honestly genuinely shocked when I look at polling and find, for example, that white Catholics are 50-50. Now, I brought up a Catholic, I am a Catholic, there are certain core, I mean, we're going to disagree about religious faith, but there are certain values that are taught. And he is literally the negation of every single one. I mean, it is almost impossible to come up with someone less officially Christian in the virtues than Trump is. And yet... Half of them think he's okay. And look, here's one thought is that they're not really thinking about him. They're thinking about the people they hate. They're thinking about...”

    2020-10-30 · Making Sense with Sam Harris · #223 — A Conversation with Andrew Sullivan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

13. “And not just politics, but tribal politics, like intensely emotional. Psychologically exhausting, emotionally draining, constant conflict, rage, emotional outbursts, this is all heat, there's almost been no light at all. And I certainly think that psychologically I've been, I mean, I'll admit it, I think he's gotten into my head and has created, I mean, I had a clinical depression just a couple of months after he was elected. And I'm not saying that as a joke. I'm saying that having to absorb a crazy person every day that you can't really avoid. It reminds me of those people that have to live in totalitarian regimes where the picture and the face of the dear leader is constantly in your eye. You can't get away from it. It's on your wall. You have to...”

    2020-10-30 · Making Sense with Sam Harris · #223 — A Conversation with Andrew Sullivan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

14. “We are, but he also, you know, it turns out he kind of wants to be a talk show host sitting in the oval office. That he talks about his own administration as if he were observing it as opposed to directing it. And because he lives in this strange world without actual responsibility. So, hey, I've just got the biggest platform in the world. I will tweet 30,000 times irrational, crazy insults. And I think that has, I mean, the impact that that's had on all of our psyches over four years cannot be overstated. I think of him as president as like being in a family where one person is mentally unwell. Over time, everyone becomes mentally unwelcome. It takes us so much to be abandoned.”

    2020-10-30 · Making Sense with Sam Harris · #223 — A Conversation with Andrew Sullivan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

15. “Because persuading others has to give them some status, some equality to him. These are people who could choose this or no, and he has to persuade them. That implies that he's in some way different to them, even if it's a minimal form of deference. He can't do that. So it has to be constant rallying rather than persuasion. And that's why he's not expanded his base, but has increased its fervency. And I don't think that's going to end entirely. In fact, I think if he were to lose, and I'm pretty sure he will, but there's still part of me that wonders if these polls have really captured what's going on out there.”

    2020-10-30 · Making Sense with Sam Harris · #223 — A Conversation with Andrew Sullivan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

16. “Would need to have a sense of responsibility, which is what we understand to be adulthood. Which is that you understand that your own actions affect others and you are cognizant of that. He has never seemingly grown up at all. I mean, this is a childlike person of extraordinary appetites and impulses and whims and fury, the anger, the rage that drives him all the time. I mean, that has also prevented him, for example, for in any way reaching out to others or to expanding his base. He has not sought to persuade people, he's sought to rally them.”

    2020-10-30 · Making Sense with Sam Harris · #223 — A Conversation with Andrew Sullivan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

17. “Function of his appetites, which are insatiable, and which there is no governing process within his mind. There is no ego to control the it is all id, and it's all momentary. And it's that impulse that frightened me and still frightens me given the system that we live in. And one of the things I've watched is, you know, people were worried that he would become a dictator or something. And I looked back and looked through what I wrote about him four years ago to see if I screwed up, if I'd exaggerated. And I do think some of us didn't fully... Assimilate his incompetence or his laziness. And that is a huge relief in a way.”

    2020-10-30 · Making Sense with Sam Harris · #223 — A Conversation with Andrew Sullivan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

18. “It's an empty void within that is constantly seeking affirmation. And in that desperation has a kind of unbelievable energy. That also in the past defeated his creditors, defeated anybody rival of his in the real estate. They just, in the end, even though he crashed his company, even though he gave banks unbelievable headaches, in the end his indefatigability required them to finally leave the table, forgive the debts, cut their losses, or his ability to not pay people to sue people into submission. This is a very deep and ugly, you know, I do think of the ancient's understanding of what a tyrant is. I think what we've seen is the tyrant is to Plato and Aristotle out of control, personally out of control entirely of”

    2020-10-30 · Making Sense with Sam Harris · #223 — A Conversation with Andrew Sullivan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

19. “There was something about mental illness that can provide that kind of energy. That's why it's inexhaustible, because it's built upon a real psychosis within and this real desperate need never to sit still. I mean, the man has clearly never spent a moment in reflection, never spent a moment in silence, I doubt. You get no impression, this man has an interior life It's entirely out of directed.”

    2020-10-30 · Making Sense with Sam Harris · #223 — A Conversation with Andrew Sullivan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

20. “Yeah, it's, you know, when he says, maybe I'm immune. Maybe I'm a superman. My genes are like these incredibly powerful things. I mean, And the truth is, I mean, I just have to sit there and say, you know, I really don't know anybody with this level of energy sustained this long, with this amount of stamina. I mean, for God's sake, the man had COVID-19 only a few weeks ago And he's seen his mid 70s One thought for a minute that reality would actually impose itself upon him, but no, he's even immune to that.”

    2020-10-30 · Making Sense with Sam Harris · #223 — A Conversation with Andrew Sullivan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

21. “Yes, and that is the key to his domination because the people around him have to agree to both things. I mean, they have to agree to the first. That black is white, and they have to agree to the black as blue. And that is the way in which he enforces his domination. This is an entirely primitive, primal dominance mode of engagement. It is utterly, it's a warlord mentality. It is a mafia boss mentality. It is, I will say whatever. And you will believe it. And honestly, I think the capacity to pull that off is a function of some kind of extraordinary mental disability. I mean, psychological illness. There's an energy to this. I mean, look at the map. I mean, he's 74, right? That's one virtue.”

    2020-10-30 · Making Sense with Sam Harris · #223 — A Conversation with Andrew Sullivan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

22. “Which started by telling us even when we can see it with our own eyes, by starting with telling us that his inauguration crowd was absolutely bigger than Obama's, whatever your lying eyes are telling you when you look at the, that his ability to say that and to insist that it be true and somehow by virtue of his own psyche, to force those around him to accept it.”

    2020-10-30 · Making Sense with Sam Harris · #223 — A Conversation with Andrew Sullivan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

23. “No, and I've never witnessed someone capable of believing their own lies with such a plom, and vigour and energy there's not a single moment. In his public life that he has ever seen fit to even qualify, even when he said things that are so grotesquely untrue they're obvious. He will never concede the slightest scintilla of doubt about it and the huge assertion of a big lie and as the self confidence and the psychological tenacity extraordinary to insist upon this and to sustain it. Perpetually this is four years of sustaining a series of extraordinary fantasies.”

    2020-10-30 · Making Sense with Sam Harris · #223 — A Conversation with Andrew Sullivan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

24. “Simple short termism, inability to see beyond that. And the other thing we learned in the campaign, of course, is that within his own structure, within the Republican Party, within his own administration, we saw this as long ago as the first campaign. No one, no one, no one has any authority to stop him doing anything. He's really extraordinary in his ability to persist with his gnosticism through any advice criticism, other alternative viewpoints to such an extent that it's a kind of blindness that when the real shit hit the fan, when the emergency happened, as it often does in a presidency, he just didn't have the skills to do it. His narcissism was so pathological, it prevented him from doing even obvious and sensible things.”

    2020-10-30 · Making Sense with Sam Harris · #223 — A Conversation with Andrew Sullivan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

25. “He was terrified of germs. Why didn't this guy use all those things he had in his armor to launch a real campaign against COVID which would have helped him actually politically in the end? Why? Because he simply narcissistically couldn't believe that if he were to reduce economic growth it would harm him politically. That's all”

    2020-10-30 · Making Sense with Sam Harris · #223 — A Conversation with Andrew Sullivan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

26. “He continually and persistently lied in order to push this out of his consciousness, because as far as he was concerned, it wasn't affecting him, even though of course it would, personally in the end, but that basically incapacitated him from making any kind of sane judgment about this. You know, in some ways you would think this xenophobic germaphobe, I mean, this is a man that won't let anyone near him or didn't historically wouldn't shake anybody's hands if someone coffee him in the oval office, he would ask them to leave. He was pathologically hostile to germs. That's why he likes fast food, we were told. I mean, he never pressed the lowest button on an elevator.”

    2020-10-30 · Making Sense with Sam Harris · #223 — A Conversation with Andrew Sullivan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

27. “This, how do we figure out what the most sensible precautions are? Let's pick up the pandemic playbook that we had inherited. And you might even think that some of his instincts politically would be very successful. So for example, he's kind of the guy that likes to shut borders. Well, he could have shut every border. He's kind of the guy that seeks to control the country, seeks to put himself at the middle of it. Well, he could have made all sorts of gestures to shutting down the country, to imposing masks. He had incredible leeway to do whatever he wanted. But especially if your goal is to control the epidemic, what did he do? He immediately understood this to be a possible threat to the economy, which meant to his re-election. So his instinct was to deny it, to push it out of his mind, or if it did happen, to try and tell a story that made it not important.”

    2020-10-30 · Making Sense with Sam Harris · #223 — A Conversation with Andrew Sullivan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

28. “But Clinton was able in some ways, but his personal character did, I think, affect his public, but not to the same extent. And this is the key thing here, it seems to me, is a kind of extraordinary and extreme pathological narcissism, which prevents Trump literally from understanding the experiences of anybody outside of himself. And he's an inability to see that he is just one part of a bigger system. And that in fact As president, he has responsibility for the interests of other people too. So that pathological narcissism, which is really deeper in him than I've ever come across in anybody in public life, means that when you come to a situation like suddenly there's a COVID crisis, what are your instincts? Your instinct, if you were a regular, reasonably normal person, is blimey. We've got to do something about that.”

    2020-10-30 · Making Sense with Sam Harris · #223 — A Conversation with Andrew Sullivan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

29. “I think maybe an interesting comparison here is Bill Clinton, who I think Characterologically, it is pretty awful person. But nonetheless was capable of operating, even if he was, let's say, economical with the truth at times, there was at least some kind of respect he gave to the notion of making rational arguments with evidence and a respect he took even with when he was being persecuted by a special counsel with nonetheless going through the motions of cooperating with it, even at some point being deposed and speaking to something which in contrast with the things that Trump was accused of in impeachment completely trivial.”

    2020-10-30 · Making Sense with Sam Harris · #223 — A Conversation with Andrew Sullivan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

30. “He's not solely responsible for it, and I'm not going to say that wokeness or far left or the attack upon liberal democratic values he entirely created. He didn't. He was partly a product of that. But we have a test case of whether he can make it better. And in fact, he, by the very manner of his engagement in the discourse, is making it much, much worse all the time.”

    2020-10-30 · Making Sense with Sam Harris · #223 — A Conversation with Andrew Sullivan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

31. “Requires all of us to engage in a respect for counter-argument, reasonable counter-argument, and to and fro, and trying to accept the result of some kind of deliberation. This he has completely subverted in our psyches and in our public debate and therefore empowers irrationality everywhere, including on the left, so that we've witnessed people saying things. What he called truthful hyperbole, when you think about some of the insane things that he said, well, I think of describing a multicultural, multiracial dynamic America in 2020 as a form of white supremacy is nothing but a mirror image of this truthful hyperbole, which makes it almost impossible to engage with reality. That's what he's done.”

    2020-10-30 · Making Sense with Sam Harris · #223 — A Conversation with Andrew Sullivan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

32. “Kind of worldview, which is entirely narcissistic, which is entirely subjective, which is entirely about feeling and emotion. This is an extinction level event for liberal democracy, inasmuch as liberal democracy”

    2020-10-30 · Making Sense with Sam Harris · #223 — A Conversation with Andrew Sullivan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

33. “To trigger and to inflame anybody who might conceivably take an issue with it. And there is something about that that creates a political dynamic in which other actors, those opposing him, because they can't actually engage reasonably with certain arguments, with evidence, they then are empowered to put forward their own narratives, their own delusions, their own tribal fantasies to counter what he's doing in a point to the extent at which I really think we're lost. We are truly lost when you listen to the debates going on. There is not a shared set of facts. There isn't a shared understanding that we have to apply reason to these facts. There is no deliberation happening at all. And when I wrote like four or five years ago now, that this kind of rhetoric, this kind of”

    2020-10-30 · Making Sense with Sam Harris · #223 — A Conversation with Andrew Sullivan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

34. “You absorb the way Trump discusses with a resort to feelings, essentially, tribal feelings, feelings of emotion that he seeks to evoke and to exploit in a way that are rational functioning is short-circuited. Because how can you begin to counter argue Trump when it is simply a stream of inventions that are entirely and always self-serving combined with a constant attempt”

    2020-10-30 · Making Sense with Sam Harris · #223 — A Conversation with Andrew Sullivan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

35. “The manner of his politics, which is that the truth is entirely dispensable, that narratives are what really matter, that he can give a speech and he's been giving these campaign speeches which are essentially built upon a complete fantasy about what is going on in the world. I mean, COVID is the most obvious example in which he's declaring that it's over, and we've succeeded at the moment that it's surging, even in the places he's visiting. And if you could go through his, and I listened to the last debate, I try to follow the arguments that he's making because I want to understand what's happening, and they're just impossible to follow because they're built upon complete lies and delusions half the time. Fake statistics invented scenarios, complete hyperboles in ways that completely distort any kind of rational debate so that you're reduced to...”

    2020-10-30 · Making Sense with Sam Harris · #223 — A Conversation with Andrew Sullivan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

36. “That really his attachment to these causes was entirely instrumental, and that really all he's about is his own sense of his own power and his own centrality to any conversation about anything. So I don't think that the argument that somehow some of the issues he championed illegitimate has been borne out in the last four years. I think, for example, he's done more to stigmatize and taint the cause of some kind of control of mass immigration. Than anyone on the left could ever have done. And I think that's really emboldening the people that he said he was trying to oppose and disempower.”

    2020-10-30 · Making Sense with Sam Harris · #223 — A Conversation with Andrew Sullivan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

37. “Elements on the extreme left and that he has been their best friend in so many ways by making it almost impossible to counter some of these trends on the far left without seeming to defend the indefensible. So on those people who want substantively are sympathetic to a more adjusted as it were conservatism, I don't think Trump has been competent enough to deliver it. And I don't think, and I think in many ways he's been extraordinarily counterproductive in that effect. And so I wish I could say that, you know, yes, he had a point about immigration. He had a point about trade. He has had a point about white working class people in the West. But failure to deliver, failure to prove that he can do anything about these things. And in fact, when you look at it, he's almost not mentioning either of those key issues of immigration and trade this time around, which suggests”

    2020-10-30 · Making Sense with Sam Harris · #223 — A Conversation with Andrew Sullivan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

38. “Trump's critique of what had been going on was not without merit. And I agree with that. But there has been no real success on tariffs, for example. I mean, there's been some minor tinkering, but we haven't seen a turnaround in manufacturing. We haven't seen a turnaround in things like coal. We haven't seen what he promised in 2016. We haven't even seen any serious permanent or bruted policies in controlling or changing the dynamic on immigration, which if Biden gets in, will be back to square one, that we haven't actually seen a war of ideas that has defanged some of the worst elements of the left, if anything, Trump seems to me to have presided over enormous strengthening of...”

    2020-10-30 · Making Sense with Sam Harris · #223 — A Conversation with Andrew Sullivan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

39. “Weirdly, I have been getting some of that the last week or so for more people in my personal environment, people who keep telling me that, yes, I've lost my mind a little bit because I have become a victim of Trump derangement syndrome and that the policy options that are coming before us are so horrifying. This I don't really agree with for several reasons. I don't think that the issues that Trump really campaigned on, he's really done a great deal for. I don't think, for example, that if you thought that it might be time because of the impact that free trade has had upon various industries in the US and certainly for white non-college educated workers, that therefore”

    2020-10-30 · Making Sense with Sam Harris · #223 — A Conversation with Andrew Sullivan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

40. “Let's not do that again. I don't know. Our influence terrifies me, as you know. I mean, how could one possibly speak without the thought of... Changing world history, but we'll do our best, I'm sure. Do you want to start with why Biden is a problem or?”

    2020-10-30 · Making Sense with Sam Harris · #223 — A Conversation with Andrew Sullivan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

41. “It is. Well, where I'm incredibly psyched to do this with you as the first one, we're going to do this every week, we hope. And the idea is to be able to have a conversation which is not constrained by all the pressures that are on us now in the media wherever we are and to talk openly and reasonably with people of different views, believe it or not, and to hash things out in a way that you've always been a master of doing. So I couldn't be prouder to be launching this alongside you in what seems to be now a tradition, right, every four years we get together and explain why we're both miserable about the coming election, but why we're going to vote.”

    2020-10-30 · Making Sense with Sam Harris · #223 — A Conversation with Andrew Sullivan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source