YouSaid · the spoken record

Andy Johns

lines on the record: 91
first: 2023-09-10
most recent: 2023-09-10
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“That's the most common step. That's the first step that I turn to when I was just completely stricken by panic and terrified that I might harm myself. I said I got to figure out what the hell is going on because I can't live feeling like this. And all I needed to do was reach out to a therapist. And that is a wonderful first start. Because if anything, like they're not going to have all the answers, but they can act like a router where as they're helping you understand yourself and they're really understanding you, they're thinking about, okay.”
2023-09-10 · Lenny's Podcast · When enough is enough | Andy Johns (ex-FB, Twitter, Quora) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Commonly in the West, you know, the first step that makes a lot of sense is you turn to somebody who's trained in helping you figure out what those truths are, which is a therapist or a psychologist or a psychiatrist or a counselor. Sometimes people turn to religious or spiritual leaders because they can be quite gifted in this.”
2023-09-10 · Lenny's Podcast · When enough is enough | Andy Johns (ex-FB, Twitter, Quora) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Fear of going back to how bad things were and feeling that bad again. Eventually the process changes tone. When you move past the fear stage and you understand yourself enough and then you start to look forward optimistically towards the future, where instead of just being driven by fear, you're also pulled forward by a vision for the future that inspires you. So that eventually comes. But to begin with, yes, this process of discovering the truth is very, very, very, very difficult. It requires a personal commitment. It's not something anyone else can do for you.”
2023-09-10 · Lenny's Podcast · When enough is enough | Andy Johns (ex-FB, Twitter, Quora) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“In order to work up the courage to get to that point, things typically have to get pretty bad. You say, I can't fucking do this anymore. I'm not going to live like this. Something's got to change. And so so much of that seeking of the truth is actually at first driven by intense fear.”
2023-09-10 · Lenny's Podcast · When enough is enough | Andy Johns (ex-FB, Twitter, Quora) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Again, in some of these spiritual traditions, let's take Buddhism, for example. There's a reason that there's so much structure and discipline and there's a daily method that they adhere to because it turns out it takes daily practice in the same way that if you want to get extremely fit and climb Mount Everest, you know, that's not something you do by just getting off the couch. It takes sort of a dedication to it. I think that the seeking of truth takes that kind of dedication. And that's again why I believe that the first step is almost always suffering because Undergo that process of personal transformation, which can be very difficult, and it can feel like you're in a life raft and you've just pushed away from the shore, completely untethered, uncertain of where you're floating.”
2023-09-10 · Lenny's Podcast · When enough is enough | Andy Johns (ex-FB, Twitter, Quora) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“The superpowers of the human mind gone awry again sort of been the modern context. There's going to be a lot of suffering one way or another. I think if there's a goal or objective, it's to minimize the unnecessary suffering. But the seeking of the truth part is very difficult. It takes years. There's a reason that”
2023-09-10 · Lenny's Podcast · When enough is enough | Andy Johns (ex-FB, Twitter, Quora) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I think you're pretty spot on with it. This dips into a lot of the ancient Eastern spiritual traditions of just this recognition that life involves suffering one way or another. There's going to be suffering. I think of it as there's two types of suffering. There's the necessary suffering like we're going to get old and our bodies are going to hurt and we're going to have physical ailments and toothaches and shit's just going to happen. Going to lose the people we love, all of us. And the 80 to 100 billion Homo sapiens that live before us gone through the same th So there is necessary suffering in life for the sort of mandatory suffering. And then there's the unnecessary suffering, which is the suffering that is almost entirely, and I think the argument could be made that it's entirely made up in our minds. This is”
2023-09-10 · Lenny's Podcast · When enough is enough | Andy Johns (ex-FB, Twitter, Quora) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Slowly but surely finding a way to take my fingers off the steering wheel and to let that old sense of self die. Then in doing so, create the room for what's next, whatever that may be. Three years into the process of discovering what that will be. So we'll see.”
2023-09-10 · Lenny's Podcast · When enough is enough | Andy Johns (ex-FB, Twitter, Quora) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yes, yeah. And this is kind of the power of the human mind at work or what some refer to as the ego. As soon as the ego senses that something wants to challenge it and to undermine its authority, it finds a way to push it away. It finds a way to ignore it. It is a very difficult process. This is, I now understand what some philosophers described as. Death before dying. In this process of change that I've been going through, it's been the death of the old me, the death of Andy, whose identity was entirely attached to succeeding. That old Andy doesn't want to let go. It's been around for a few decades. It believes that it's there to protect me. This is a survival mechanism that's somewhat gone awry within the context of modern life. And so it doesn't want to let go. That's what I've been doing. That's the process I've been going through.”
2023-09-10 · Lenny's Podcast · When enough is enough | Andy Johns (ex-FB, Twitter, Quora) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And think of that as sort of like the horizontal foundation through which the rest of your external life is built. The place you choose to live, the partner you choose to have, the friends you have, the career you have, all of these things are erections on top of a foundation of identity. And that identity is what is completely rewired when somebody goes through that four-step process. And as a result, everything that's built on top of that identity. It doesn't necessarily have to change, but it might.”
2023-09-10 · Lenny's Podcast · When enough is enough | Andy Johns (ex-FB, Twitter, Quora) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I think of the human mind, there are many ways that you can describe what the brain is, but one way that I describe it certainly is that it's autobiographical. It tries to predict what's going to happen next based on what happened in the past. It's a prediction engine. That's what it does. And that's why I say it's autobiographical because the way that you present yourself to the world as an adult is a reflection of what happened to you in the past. And so that's the. Process as I see it of deep deep deep transformation. It's that four-step process of the suffering, the seeking of truth, the living in a way that is compassionate towards oneself and then living in a way that is compassionate towards others. And when you do that, you change.”
2023-09-10 · Lenny's Podcast · When enough is enough | Andy Johns (ex-FB, Twitter, Quora) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“45 day hospitalization. That was an act of love. And so Ends up happening is the truth fuels that process of self love. And when you begin to live in a way that is consistent with Valuing yourself. Understanding that it's not your fault. That's when you move to step four, which is compassion towards others Because by understanding yourself and realizing the true nature of why you are the way you are and forgiving yourself because you understand it's not your fault, guess what? See the same thing in everybody else This is what is meant when folks sometimes say we're all adults or we're all children walking around in an adult bodies. Right? We're just acting out. Things that were done to us in the past”
2023-09-10 · Lenny's Podcast · When enough is enough | Andy Johns (ex-FB, Twitter, Quora) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So, what sits at the core of their suffering is not only a low sense of self, but a shame, a shame regarding who they are and who they believe themselves to be. When you dig deep enough into your own self-understanding. Eventually, you'll discover that that's not true. It isn't your fault. That these things swept you up like a wave, and you were just along for a ride of which you had no choice. When you understand that and you start to feel a sense of forgiveness and to begin to love yourself for the first time, you make this switch where then you're willing to live in a way that is more consistent with self-love and self-compassion. So, me, for example, stepping away from my career at the end of the day, I wasn't running from something. I was running back towards myself. That was an act of kindness towards myself. Going into”
2023-09-10 · Lenny's Podcast · When enough is enough | Andy Johns (ex-FB, Twitter, Quora) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“First, you begin with suffering, and then second, you seek the truth for your suffering. What I have found, and that leads to step three in the process, Is that Once you discover the truth, Your suffering The real root cause of it, where it came from That's when you move to step three, which is you begin to experience into practice self-compassion and self-love, because inevitably what you discover. This process of seeking the truth is that. Your suffering isn't necessarily your fault Maybe you're suffering because of things that you experienced or had to go through, which you had no control over. Nonetheless, it's common for the mind, especially the mind of a child, to interpret those less than nurturing experiences as this happened because of me.”
2023-09-10 · Lenny's Podcast · When enough is enough | Andy Johns (ex-FB, Twitter, Quora) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Once the suffering gets so bad, and somebody through some sort of spiritual intervention, a legal intervention, the intervention of friends and family, whatever it may be, they decide to change. And in order to change, you have to understand the truth as to who you are and why you are the way you are and why you're suffering. The answer lies in understanding the truth. That is usually a long process digging through the subconscious mind, digging through your history and your past, digging through your relationships. Takes a lot of time. It takes a lot of time to remove the mental blocks that we might have spent decades developing such that we don't even see these patterns that we play out regularly.”
2023-09-10 · Lenny's Podcast · When enough is enough | Andy Johns (ex-FB, Twitter, Quora) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Transitions that I talk about are the big fundamental ones, like the transition that I've been going through myself. Now what's involved in that? Think that there are four parts just to give it a simple general framework. Step one is it begins with suffering. Large transitions in life rarely take place in the absence of suffering. So step number one is suffer. And usually the deeper somebody suffers, the more significant the transition that may follow. You know, there's a reason why in the 12 steps community, like Alcoholics Anonymous, Narcotics Anonymous, you name it, there's a reason that rock bottom is in the vernacular because rock bottom tends to precede somebody getting sober. So step one is suffering. Step two is Seeking the truth behind why we suffer.”
2023-09-10 · Lenny's Podcast · When enough is enough | Andy Johns (ex-FB, Twitter, Quora) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I love this question. So, yeah, most of the conversations I have are with folks who are going through significant change. What's involved in that? Can happen on a spectrum where everyone's process is unique. We don't know all sort of change and unfold in identical ways. Some can go through subtle shifts. I've heard this referred to as a microtransition, where, for example, they may be working at a tech industry or at a tech company, but the specific company they're working at, they have no real sort of values connection to it. And so part of their suffering is the fact that they feel that the work that they're doing doesn't really matter or they don't feel a connection to it. And so switching to work at a different company, that's aligned with something that's consistent with their values, that may be enough for somebody to sort of go through a small transition and then find themselves in a happier place.”
2023-09-10 · Lenny's Podcast · When enough is enough | Andy Johns (ex-FB, Twitter, Quora) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“The philosophies, the tools, and the methods that work for them. You can read plenty of studies, you can read the books, you can listen to what others are doing, but at the end of the day, you got to personalize it to yourself. So that's why I called it clues.life because I'm sort of building this library of mental health information that allows people to navigate all of this information in search of their own clues.”
2023-09-10 · Lenny's Podcast · When enough is enough | Andy Johns (ex-FB, Twitter, Quora) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“The website that I'm playing around with is called clues.life. Clues, as in questions, clues not in truth.life or facts.life. I called it clues.life for a reason because if there's one thing that I've learned in my own personal journey is that given the immense heterogeneity of the human population and how we're all born unique and then we're made further unique through our own individual life experiences, the thing that's clear to me is that If somebody is going through their own struggle,”
2023-09-10 · Lenny's Podcast · When enough is enough | Andy Johns (ex-FB, Twitter, Quora) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Many cases, not only their own personal trauma, but also war trauma. And so that's one organization that I'm thankful to be able to work with and help out. I also write my newsletter and have created a new website that I'm toying with. And in general, my writing and the content that I put out is focused on the unhappy achievers. You know, the other folks like myself who are out there, which there's quite a few of us, I write in order to sort of Express my personal experience because I think there's many others that can relate. So those are the things that I've been working on and a little bit of coaching with some of the high performers as well.”
2023-09-10 · Lenny's Podcast · When enough is enough | Andy Johns (ex-FB, Twitter, Quora) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Now, when people ask me what I do, I say I do mental health advocacy. And I do it in a few ways. One is I sit on the board of a nonprofit called Heroic Hearts Project. And what we do is we raise money so that we can pay for military veterans with PTSD to get access to alternative therapies, namely psychedelic assistant psychotherapy. It was started by a handful of veterans. I was lucky enough to meet a few of them a couple of years ago. And given my own personal experience with PTSD stemming from my childhood experiences, It was, you know, I was bonded together with these men and women of the armed forces who had.”
2023-09-10 · Lenny's Podcast · When enough is enough | Andy Johns (ex-FB, Twitter, Quora) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And so, my stepping away from the career, stepping away from the high salary and stepping away from everything I'd worked so hard to obtain. Was an action that I took in recognition of the fact that that early life adaptation had now gone awry and was responsible for my life heading in a negative direction. And it was time to change.”
2023-09-10 · Lenny's Podcast · When enough is enough | Andy Johns (ex-FB, Twitter, Quora) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Which put us in positions to where we form adaptations in order to survive. Just like my attachment to achievement and how my self-worth was entirely tied up in that. And I needed that when I was younger. Because I was heartbroken. I'd lost a parent. And that adaptation that I formed saved my life when I was young. And it gave me a great childhood after that and a great next couple of decades. These adaptations, if you're unaware of them and if you're unaware of the subconscious drivers that are responsible for them. They run the risk that Go too far, and that these adaptations, which were initially beneficial to you into your life. Reverse course in a sense and they become detrimental to your present state and your future development.”
2023-09-10 · Lenny's Podcast · When enough is enough | Andy Johns (ex-FB, Twitter, Quora) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Continuing to push forward despite how poorly I felt on the inside was because of stuff that had happened to me when I was much younger and because of the fallible nature of the human mind and how it wants to interpret experiences and ways that can become so self-critical and self-damaging. And so, yeah, that happened for me roughly three years ago. And needless to say, my life has changed quite a bit since then. And I'm happy to chat more about that. But, you know, that was a difficult decision to walk away from my career at the peak of it. But I guess the takeaway, and then I'll stop for a bit is it's important for people to understand. There are formative experiences in our lives”
2023-09-10 · Lenny's Podcast · When enough is enough | Andy Johns (ex-FB, Twitter, Quora) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I had convinced myself repeatedly for so many years that everything was okay and that I could continue to put my head down and run through these walls, these professional walls, and keep going, but it got to a point to where that was no longer the case. And in fact It was the culmination of conversations with my doctors and with the experts that I've been working with where I ended up actually spending 45 days in a mental health institute myself. And it was something that was extremely difficult to do. It was something that certainly contributed or was really the tip of the sphere of me stepping away from my career. Of realizing that the only reason I was”
2023-09-10 · Lenny's Podcast · When enough is enough | Andy Johns (ex-FB, Twitter, Quora) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Underneath that was the sense that I wasn't lovable unless I was succeeding. And here I was after a heart attack scare at the age of thirty five. Sweeping that under the carpet. Like I'd swept so much stuff under the carpet and choosing to join on as a founding partner of a venture capital firm, which is not an easy job at all, especially when you're starting a new firm up. In a lot of ways, it's, I mean, it's a company in and of its own. So it was another startup. It was my sixth startup in a row. And so, you know, three years into that, though. Even though I was working on my own mental health and my emotional well-being,”
2023-09-10 · Lenny's Podcast · When enough is enough | Andy Johns (ex-FB, Twitter, Quora) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“When I look back on it in retrospect, I had put in so much effort to get to that point, really going back to when I was 10 years old, you know, having always been the straight A student, right? And captain of whatever team I was on. And from the age of 10 to basically 35, I was switched on constantly seeking to perform at the top of whatever my field was. And so I got into that point first as an executive at a high-growth startup that was Wealthfront and I became president and was next in line to be CEO before I had a healthcare with my heart that led to me stepping away from the company because I knew I couldn't take on the CEO position. But then here I was six or seven months later again, so very subconsciously driven by the desire to succeed because”
2023-09-10 · Lenny's Podcast · When enough is enough | Andy Johns (ex-FB, Twitter, Quora) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“One of the things that I did towards the tail end of my career is I became a founding consumer or founding partner of the consumer arm of an early stage venture capital firm. And most folks know that especially once a fund gets big enough, it can be a high paying job. Suddenly I found myself in a position where I was making high six figures per year into early seven figures.”
2023-09-10 · Lenny's Podcast · When enough is enough | Andy Johns (ex-FB, Twitter, Quora) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I'd say that it's a fair estimate to say that at least 50 to 60 percent of tech employees who have, just to give it a bit more nuance, who have sort of been in the saddle, so to speak, for a minimum of five to seven years, they're experiencing some form of psychological and emotional distress. And it may be minor enough such that they think it's sort of just day-to-day anxiety, but it's often much more significant than people realize because, again, it sort of creeps up on you slowly and then all of a sudden it hits you quickly.”
2023-09-10 · Lenny's Podcast · When enough is enough | Andy Johns (ex-FB, Twitter, Quora) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“The last two years, I've been doing a lot of writing, and most of my writing has really just been me opening up and sharing This personal side of what was going on behind the scenes. And Along the way, I've been able to connect with at this point hundreds of folks in the tech industry who are dealing with their own forms of burnout or their own deep existential questions that are coming to the surface and they're trying to understand them. And so from some of the surveys I put out from my own anecdotal experience and from some proper research that's been conducted by experts who focus on entrepreneur and high performer well-being.”
2023-09-10 · Lenny's Podcast · When enough is enough | Andy Johns (ex-FB, Twitter, Quora) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Eventually, those emotional wounds are going to come to the surface. They're going to come up for error. And when they do, it's going to be difficult. And that's what happened with me. So it was really two things coming together at the same time. It was the growing pressures of an escalating career within the dynamic industry, but then also, I think, the natural maturation of my mind and of adult development such that it was time for that old pain to come to the surface. And when it did, it was very disruptive. And it's something that I'm still continuing to work on to this day.”
2023-09-10 · Lenny's Podcast · When enough is enough | Andy Johns (ex-FB, Twitter, Quora) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And that if I wanted to love myself and be considered lovable by others, I needed to achieve. And that pulled me out of a darkness that I was in for several years as a kid. And I'm glad that it did. And it led to an excellent experience in high school, in college. And then well into my 20s.”
2023-09-10 · Lenny's Podcast · When enough is enough | Andy Johns (ex-FB, Twitter, Quora) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Course, like anyone else, after that, I was in a lot of pain emotionally. But as a kid, you don't have the tools or even the capabilities to effectively process something as significant and traumatic as an experience like that. And so my mind did what the mind of most children will do, which is it finds a way to bury it or to ignore it. And the thing that I had latched on to that made me feel better was that anytime I hit a home run or scored a goal or got straight A's and was just basically a stellar student and a stellar athlete, I was showered with love, not only from my family, which was fantastic, but from society at large, especially within the world that we live in. And so I learned very early on that If I wanted to feel good, I needed to achieve”
2023-09-10 · Lenny's Podcast · When enough is enough | Andy Johns (ex-FB, Twitter, Quora) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Not only struggling emotionally and psychologically because of the pressures of the career and climbing the ladder and just the sort of common existential anks that comes with being at a startup and not knowing what the future holds. But what I later came to understand was that I was also starting to experience and to address old emotional pain that I'd buried for a very long time stemming back to the death of my mom when I was 10. And she was severely mentally ill. She was bipolar, had bouts of psychosis, and had spent time in and out of psychiatric hospitals. I can remember going to those hospitals as some of my earliest memories as a kid. And so there was a lot of disruption in my childhood, a lot of neglect, some occasional abuse. And then it culminated with the loss of the most important female figure in my life. When I was 10.”
2023-09-10 · Lenny's Podcast · When enough is enough | Andy Johns (ex-FB, Twitter, Quora) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“There were two major things that contributed to me having a pretty cute case of burnout and needing to step away from my career as I knew it. The first was just the slow and steady accumulation of the pressure, the stresses, the anxieties, the emotional ups and downs that came from having such a strong commitment to my career. And frankly, an addiction to achievement as a way to feel good and to feel whole. But I was so focused on my work that I had Slowly become the frog that was boiling in the pot, the typical analogy, like you don't realize how bad things are getting because it's happening to you slowly until it happens quickly, right? And so, on one hand, I was”
2023-09-10 · Lenny's Podcast · When enough is enough | Andy Johns (ex-FB, Twitter, Quora) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I was set up to go and speak to the entire company during an all hands session. And it was something where I just had to come up with an excuse and bow out of it because at the time I was already completely overcome and overwhelmed by this near constant panic I was experiencing. But I had a really good poker face. I don't think most people could see it. But to give a little bit of an explanation and to sort of tie first question together with this.”
2023-09-10 · Lenny's Podcast · When enough is enough | Andy Johns (ex-FB, Twitter, Quora) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Sure, I can share that. It actually goes back to this is 2010. And I was at Twitter at the time. I was in my late 20s. And again, my career was going really well. I was starting to stream together a series of successful experiences. And I was suddenly hit with near constant panic attacks, depression. I was having a very, very difficult time sleeping and just managing my emotions as a whole. And it got to the point to where there were several occasions while I was at work where I could tell that I was about ready to have a breakdown of sorts. And I would just grab my laptop, throw it in my bag, and pretty quietly just walk out. That happened on multiple occasions. And there were some occasions in which”
2023-09-10 · Lenny's Podcast · When enough is enough | Andy Johns (ex-FB, Twitter, Quora) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So, you know, even though I had those successes, there was a lot that I needed to work through that was under the hood, which I eventually came to understand very, very deeply as a result of turning inward and doing a lot of work on my own path towards self-understanding and healing some deep emotional wounds.”
2023-09-10 · Lenny's Podcast · When enough is enough | Andy Johns (ex-FB, Twitter, Quora) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Sure. So the short background is I spent about 17 years working in the world of startups. And I think on the whole, it was a successful experience. I managed to land at a handful of really good companies and had a great experience. But along the way, despite having built somewhat of an impressive resume, I guess you could say I was also struggling quite a bit in terms of my emotional, psychological, and spiritual health. And so in some ways it feels like the cliche that as my career sort of reached its pinnacle, from a professional, from a financial perspective, I was at my highest. But when it came to other aspects of my life, I was arguably at my lowest or close to my lowest.”
2023-09-10 · Lenny's Podcast · When enough is enough | Andy Johns (ex-FB, Twitter, Quora) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm looking forward to that. I think one of the things that has been a change for me over the last several years is that I prefer to move forward in my life being completely honest with who I am, not hiding any aspects of myself, including the stuff that in the past I'd be afraid to share.”
2023-09-10 · Lenny's Podcast · When enough is enough | Andy Johns (ex-FB, Twitter, Quora) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“There are day to day stresses that are normal, and we just have to put up with. But then there's the other stuff that's kind of the flashing red alarm. Again, you can go back to animals. It's like when they're fundamental functions, when they're core behaviors of diet, exercise, playfulness, socialization, sleep. When those things get disrupted, it's a sign that there is something going on here that you need to take a look at. And so the same is true with people. If your sleep always sucks, if your relationships are constantly strained or frequently strained, if your physical health is failing, there's so many ways that that can be measured. So there's really no excuse for that to say like, oh, I just didn't know. I'd say it's to look at those things. Like when those are suffering or when they're really out of whack, it's undeniable that there is something that is detrimental to.”
2023-09-10 · Lenny's Podcast · When enough is enough | Andy Johns (ex-FB, Twitter, Quora) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source