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Antoine Le Nel

lines on the record: 79
first: 2024-10-18
most recent: 2024-10-18
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

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“The mid funnel, this is where at least the way I look at it, it's the place where you can run some level of attribution, but you have a strong halo because of the high reach that you get and you can develop as well some deeper content. So performance marketing is basically banners or super short videos, you know, six seconds and so on. So you don't really build anything in terms of, let's say, product awareness, brand consideration like ABT and so on. You don't build any of that. So what you say is that right away, you play the full funnel because you have a big branding impact, but you are revenue generator right away, you know, which is the exact opposite as the Formula One thing where there's no revenue, there's nothing, you know, it's like it's pure brand and so on. And that's what I call a bit meat funnel. It's activities that help you do a bit of everything. Like suddenly.”
2024-10-18 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20Growth: Revolut's Chief Growth Officer on The Growth Playbook Revolut Used to Scale to $2.2BN in Revenue | How Revolut Launch and Grow Products | Why the Best PMs Don't Need A/B Tests & Why CAC is a BS Metric with Antoine Le Nel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, so investing more in this brand campaign was the big thing and really identifying the ability that the brand marketing can improve your conversion metrics. That was quite an insight which has worked really well. That is making us do more of it.”
2024-10-18 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20Growth: Revolut's Chief Growth Officer on The Growth Playbook Revolut Used to Scale to $2.2BN in Revenue | How Revolut Launch and Grow Products | Why the Best PMs Don't Need A/B Tests & Why CAC is a BS Metric with Antoine Le Nel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“The biggest flop. I mean, there's been some influences that just didn't work at all. Like, I mean, it was the early days and we tried to do something that we thought was cool and so on. I think doing some big brain campaigns with some, let's say, some celebrities that are just not necessarily super good with social media, let's put it this way, that just doesn't work. So you just learn, you know, you just learn.”
2024-10-18 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20Growth: Revolut's Chief Growth Officer on The Growth Playbook Revolut Used to Scale to $2.2BN in Revenue | How Revolut Launch and Grow Products | Why the Best PMs Don't Need A/B Tests & Why CAC is a BS Metric with Antoine Le Nel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It's pretty cool, right? But it's the same, you know, like as well, we do a lot, you know, but like what matters is how you manage your attribution, you know, and I think we're pretty good at getting the attribution done and knowing what works, what doesn't work. Many things don't work. But at least I know what works and what doesn't work.”
2024-10-18 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20Growth: Revolut's Chief Growth Officer on The Growth Playbook Revolut Used to Scale to $2.2BN in Revenue | How Revolut Launch and Grow Products | Why the Best PMs Don't Need A/B Tests & Why CAC is a BS Metric with Antoine Le Nel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“You have multiple ways to look at it. So, what we do in airport, which is pretty cool, is that we do the advertising on jetbridges and so on. If you've been to Rome Airport and so on, for example, we've launched something really cool there. But next to it, we put vending machines. So you have vending machines in the airport to collect your Revolute card. So you just go on the vending machine, you press the button, and you just get the card, you know. So it's anonymous, I mean, unlinked card. You just take it, you scan the QR code, create the account, and then the card is automatically linked. Then I can really link all my activities and get a huge array for what I do.”
2024-10-18 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20Growth: Revolut's Chief Growth Officer on The Growth Playbook Revolut Used to Scale to $2.2BN in Revenue | How Revolut Launch and Grow Products | Why the Best PMs Don't Need A/B Tests & Why CAC is a BS Metric with Antoine Le Nel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And then I came at Revolut, and we did not start it at all with any brand marketing and so on. And now we're testing it. We're doing more of it. And it really works. Do you know?”
2024-10-18 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20Growth: Revolut's Chief Growth Officer on The Growth Playbook Revolut Used to Scale to $2.2BN in Revenue | How Revolut Launch and Grow Products | Why the Best PMs Don't Need A/B Tests & Why CAC is a BS Metric with Antoine Le Nel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, so for example, the upper funnel, I was never a big fan of upper funnel. I thought that was very difficult. Sorry, I'm”
2024-10-18 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20Growth: Revolut's Chief Growth Officer on The Growth Playbook Revolut Used to Scale to $2.2BN in Revenue | How Revolut Launch and Grow Products | Why the Best PMs Don't Need A/B Tests & Why CAC is a BS Metric with Antoine Le Nel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Don't necessarily believe more in brand than in influencers than in this and so on. Whatever works works for me, you know. And I think there are some people that believe in things, and you know what, Formula One, it got to work. We got to be on a Formula One wing. It got to work. It's like, why? Yes, maybe. I don't know. Sure. Yeah, fine. But you see, like, this is, I think, this is where it starts to break down is when you come up with just like...”
2024-10-18 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20Growth: Revolut's Chief Growth Officer on The Growth Playbook Revolut Used to Scale to $2.2BN in Revenue | How Revolut Launch and Grow Products | Why the Best PMs Don't Need A/B Tests & Why CAC is a BS Metric with Antoine Le Nel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I think it's when you start bringing a little bit of belief. I think the less you believe in, the better it is. I have no belief in anything. I have no belief in anything.”
2024-10-18 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20Growth: Revolut's Chief Growth Officer on The Growth Playbook Revolut Used to Scale to $2.2BN in Revenue | How Revolut Launch and Grow Products | Why the Best PMs Don't Need A/B Tests & Why CAC is a BS Metric with Antoine Le Nel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“That is a very good question. I think the way I like it is that the product team builds the variety engine and growth operates it. So you build something that is with parameters and then you let growth playing with it, you know, because usually growth will have better analytical framework to measure the ROI and the efficiency of it, while product will have a better product vision and UX aspect into building it. So they build the experience and growth operates it. I think that works for it.”
2024-10-18 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20Growth: Revolut's Chief Growth Officer on The Growth Playbook Revolut Used to Scale to $2.2BN in Revenue | How Revolut Launch and Grow Products | Why the Best PMs Don't Need A/B Tests & Why CAC is a BS Metric with Antoine Le Nel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“At the very, very, very beginning, all right, at the very, very beginning, because you know what, because the growth engine is not only paid marketing, you know I include variety, you know, the whole variety aspect is part of the growth, as part of the growth engine. This is the even below the lower funnel, you basically have variety. So you need to build this block super, super early on, and then you start going into the lower funnel, and then you go up.”
2024-10-18 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20Growth: Revolut's Chief Growth Officer on The Growth Playbook Revolut Used to Scale to $2.2BN in Revenue | How Revolut Launch and Grow Products | Why the Best PMs Don't Need A/B Tests & Why CAC is a BS Metric with Antoine Le Nel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So we were able to have some good level of attribution between TV and the downloads to be able to really know how much we could attribute to our TV activities. And because we managed to get that, then we were one of the very first companies to actually make that work. I think this is a very good example. The other good example is iOS performance marketing on iOS after scan. And you have companies that know how this works, therefore they can measure it. Scale, and you have all the other ones that are really struggling and so on. At the end of the day, they spend maybe two, three times more on Android versus iOS, you know, which is a nonsense.”
2024-10-18 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20Growth: Revolut's Chief Growth Officer on The Growth Playbook Revolut Used to Scale to $2.2BN in Revenue | How Revolut Launch and Grow Products | Why the Best PMs Don't Need A/B Tests & Why CAC is a BS Metric with Antoine Le Nel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It is the measurement framework, that's for sure. You live in a world, especially in tech, where people do things that they can measure. There's always this bias, you know, there's always this bias. And at the end of the day, your competitive advantage will always come from your ability to measure more than your competitors. Because then suddenly you're going to do that. So, for example, at King, what we cracked, we cracked the TV measurement framework way before everyone, and therefore we were the only company running TV.”
2024-10-18 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20Growth: Revolut's Chief Growth Officer on The Growth Playbook Revolut Used to Scale to $2.2BN in Revenue | How Revolut Launch and Grow Products | Why the Best PMs Don't Need A/B Tests & Why CAC is a BS Metric with Antoine Le Nel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, it depends on the maturity of the market. I think the more mature, the more you will be able to do some upper funnel, the less mature, the more you focus on the conversion, on the conversion itself. There's no one truth. It evolves. You know, it's a living animal.”
2024-10-18 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20Growth: Revolut's Chief Growth Officer on The Growth Playbook Revolut Used to Scale to $2.2BN in Revenue | How Revolut Launch and Grow Products | Why the Best PMs Don't Need A/B Tests & Why CAC is a BS Metric with Antoine Le Nel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“A growth engine is where you have multiple components that all play together. I'll give you a very simple example. I look at it quite the famous full funnel, you know, that everyone says. So you have a funnel, the mid funnel, and the lower funnel. And the growth engine is when you manage to get those three elements working together. So at the end of the day, the growth engine is when you make sure that you have the lower funnel that works like a fishing net, grabs all the conversions that ultimately mid and upper funnel are feeding you with. And that's where all of that works in perfect synchronization so that at the end of the day, it's all been grabbed by the lower funnel. That is the engine, when then you find the right balance between those different elements that optimize the overall thing.”
2024-10-18 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20Growth: Revolut's Chief Growth Officer on The Growth Playbook Revolut Used to Scale to $2.2BN in Revenue | How Revolut Launch and Grow Products | Why the Best PMs Don't Need A/B Tests & Why CAC is a BS Metric with Antoine Le Nel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I mean, on the marketing side, there's been some campaigns, for example, that we've been running in some countries where we've been using some creatives that were quite generic. And after two weeks, we saw it was a disaster and we just cut it off. You know, we don't wait for the campaign to finish. You're like, you know what? This is just not happening. This is just, there's no way this will pick up. And you just cut it, you know, while maybe in other places you would just have continued and say, you know what, we're here and then we'll do the retrospective at the end of it say, no, I mean, it's not working, it's not working, you just cut it, you know, and fine, your TV campaign that was supposed to run, let's say, for three months, well, after two weeks, it's just not working, you just cut it, and then you move on, you know, it's fine.”
2024-10-18 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20Growth: Revolut's Chief Growth Officer on The Growth Playbook Revolut Used to Scale to $2.2BN in Revenue | How Revolut Launch and Grow Products | Why the Best PMs Don't Need A/B Tests & Why CAC is a BS Metric with Antoine Le Nel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So, the organization is very, very flat, and we are making sure that every team is as self-sufficient as possible. That's what really builds the agility. If you're self-sufficient in building what you have to build, you just go, you know, with it. And we run more quarterly cycles and so on. And we have a very high pace. But because there's no interdependencies between the different things that we build, at the end of the day, we are splitting the companies as many startups as possible. I know like big organizations who say, oh, you know, those are silos. People are not collaborating, et cetera, et cetera. You know, you need to always find the right balance between coordinating things while giving the right amount of focus. I think that's what we're doing pretty well at Revolute, where every team has a huge amount of autonomy and of focus to really go very fast in what they do.”
2024-10-18 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20Growth: Revolut's Chief Growth Officer on The Growth Playbook Revolut Used to Scale to $2.2BN in Revenue | How Revolut Launch and Grow Products | Why the Best PMs Don't Need A/B Tests & Why CAC is a BS Metric with Antoine Le Nel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, I mean, the thing with what we build, we build an engine, which is a combination of many, many things, meaning there's no, because you have two types of growth. You have the growth that are made of, let's say, launches, let's say, marketing campaigns and some coup, you know, like you make a big marketing coup, you know, and then back you get the spike and so on. There's none of that at Revolut, you know? I mean, if anyone, I mean, you're probably going to ask me, what is the one thing, you know, that really worked at Revolut? I can't tell you, you know, it's a combination of so many things in the growth engine. And because they all add up, when you look at the growth of Revolut, it's just very steady. And it's steady and it's accelerating week after week. You know, we just monitor every week. The acceleration keeps on going just because the engine gets more and more optimized as we are progressing. And for now, we definitely don't see the limit, even in our mature markets, you know, which is quite crazy.”
2024-10-18 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20Growth: Revolut's Chief Growth Officer on The Growth Playbook Revolut Used to Scale to $2.2BN in Revenue | How Revolut Launch and Grow Products | Why the Best PMs Don't Need A/B Tests & Why CAC is a BS Metric with Antoine Le Nel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I mean, we have a great team of founders that are heavily involved in the business, which really is giving the tempo the momentum to the whole company with the exact same approach and the exact same mindset since day one. And I think that's quite remarkable. The consistency of the approach 10 years after launch, you know, still the same mindset and so on. And I think that's extremely powerful.”
2024-10-18 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20Growth: Revolut's Chief Growth Officer on The Growth Playbook Revolut Used to Scale to $2.2BN in Revenue | How Revolut Launch and Grow Products | Why the Best PMs Don't Need A/B Tests & Why CAC is a BS Metric with Antoine Le Nel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I think that's what it is. I remember, you know, so I came from a place at King where we were late from a maturity perspective, you know, like, I mean, we had launched many games and so on. The business was doing fantastic and we were more in an optimization place where I remember at some point we were running like maybe a thousand AB tests in parallel and so on. It was a machine, you know, the machine was really optimizing everything. And I remember when I arrived at Revolu, there was not much AB testing. And for me, I was shocked at it. I was like, what? I mean, like you gotta do that. And then I discussed with people and so on. And what I realized is that there's a good reason as well why you don't want to do A-B testing.”
2024-10-18 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20Growth: Revolut's Chief Growth Officer on The Growth Playbook Revolut Used to Scale to $2.2BN in Revenue | How Revolut Launch and Grow Products | Why the Best PMs Don't Need A/B Tests & Why CAC is a BS Metric with Antoine Le Nel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Where has changed a little bit, but not so much fundamentally it is still the same game, it's still a bidding war, you know. Now, it's true it's getting a little bit more complex because you're losing some attribution and so on, so you need to be a little bit smarter in your measurement framework, but you just need to, I mean, you reinvent yourself every other year, you have to reinvent the whole measurement framework and so on. But at the end of the day, the game is still the same game. It is the same. It's the same bidding war. You just have impressions. You need to go to the highest bidder and that's it. That's what the game is.”
2024-10-18 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20Growth: Revolut's Chief Growth Officer on The Growth Playbook Revolut Used to Scale to $2.2BN in Revenue | How Revolut Launch and Grow Products | Why the Best PMs Don't Need A/B Tests & Why CAC is a BS Metric with Antoine Le Nel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“First of all, performance marketing, mastering performance marketing gives you a huge competitive advantage because it is a complex thing and if you do it really well, it makes a huge difference to your company. So that is the power of performance marketing and the performance marketing is very deep. And I don't know many people who know all of it.”
2024-10-18 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20Growth: Revolut's Chief Growth Officer on The Growth Playbook Revolut Used to Scale to $2.2BN in Revenue | How Revolut Launch and Grow Products | Why the Best PMs Don't Need A/B Tests & Why CAC is a BS Metric with Antoine Le Nel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So, in the, I mean, product and growth is very different. All right. So I think product should be more about art and a bit less about science when growth should overrate on science.”
2024-10-18 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20Growth: Revolut's Chief Growth Officer on The Growth Playbook Revolut Used to Scale to $2.2BN in Revenue | How Revolut Launch and Grow Products | Why the Best PMs Don't Need A/B Tests & Why CAC is a BS Metric with Antoine Le Nel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Exactly to the input. It is an input. At King, it was at some point, it was the only decision maker. It was very black or white, and the data was the decision maker. And I think we pushed it probably a little bit too far in this space and not spending maybe the right amount of time on the user experience and on just the quality of the product itself.”
2024-10-18 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20Growth: Revolut's Chief Growth Officer on The Growth Playbook Revolut Used to Scale to $2.2BN in Revenue | How Revolut Launch and Grow Products | Why the Best PMs Don't Need A/B Tests & Why CAC is a BS Metric with Antoine Le Nel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“That's the big difference, for example, with Revolut, I think, where a lot more product driven, which means we spend more time looking at the product than looking at the data.”
2024-10-18 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20Growth: Revolut's Chief Growth Officer on The Growth Playbook Revolut Used to Scale to $2.2BN in Revenue | How Revolut Launch and Grow Products | Why the Best PMs Don't Need A/B Tests & Why CAC is a BS Metric with Antoine Le Nel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It's definitely the most data driven organization I've ever been in, in the sense that really data was driving the organization. If you take the thing literally, the company was driven by data. I think it was so powerful that at some point we just went way too far in the sense that, for example, when we were launching games sometimes, we were probably looking more at the data than the game itself. It's like, you gotta have meetings and then you just look at the numbers and you're like.”
2024-10-18 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20Growth: Revolut's Chief Growth Officer on The Growth Playbook Revolut Used to Scale to $2.2BN in Revenue | How Revolut Launch and Grow Products | Why the Best PMs Don't Need A/B Tests & Why CAC is a BS Metric with Antoine Le Nel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I think that's the thing that probably has changed over time at King. I think at the beginning we were cutting things very quickly. As time went, we started to wait longer and longer. Oh, you know what, give it another chance. Give it another chance. Give it another chance, you know. And I think that's the whole point on when, and that's how you probably can measure the agility of the organization is how quickly you kill projects versus how many more chances you're giving to them.”
2024-10-18 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20Growth: Revolut's Chief Growth Officer on The Growth Playbook Revolut Used to Scale to $2.2BN in Revenue | How Revolut Launch and Grow Products | Why the Best PMs Don't Need A/B Tests & Why CAC is a BS Metric with Antoine Le Nel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I think, first of all, everyone thinks there was a huge amount of luck. I think the idea that what King did really well, I think they've tested extensively everything. So it was a volume game, you know, at some point super quickly, saying you need to try as much as you can at some point something will pick up. And I think that that's super, super, super well. And I think then there was this super fast pace. I remember we were launching a game like every quarter, pretty much, we were launching a game. Not everywhere, all of them were successful, but that's like the pace at which we were producing games, releasing the games and so on. I think we did that super, super well.”
2024-10-18 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20Growth: Revolut's Chief Growth Officer on The Growth Playbook Revolut Used to Scale to $2.2BN in Revenue | How Revolut Launch and Grow Products | Why the Best PMs Don't Need A/B Tests & Why CAC is a BS Metric with Antoine Le Nel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“If you're a good product manager, you don't need an AB test. You should be able to know what is the right product. I think the less you believe in, the better it is. I have no belief in anything. I have no belief in anything. There's no discussion. We only talk about ROI. Because if you talk about CAC, you'll always acquire the worst cohorts. I think the idea of localization is completely overrated. Growth is a bidding war. It's a bidding war. It's about whether you're able to bid above everyone else.”
2024-10-18 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20Growth: Revolut's Chief Growth Officer on The Growth Playbook Revolut Used to Scale to $2.2BN in Revenue | How Revolut Launch and Grow Products | Why the Best PMs Don't Need A/B Tests & Why CAC is a BS Metric with Antoine Le Nel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source