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Antony Gormley

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58
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2024-03-25
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2024-03-25
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  1. “Touching. Thank you. Well, thank you for having me. I'm sorry, I'm aware that this isn't quite the fair that your listeners.”

    2024-03-25 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 66. Antony Gormley: Art, religion, and the battle for culture · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  2. “I think it's very difficult. This is like asking a parent to choose one of their children as their favorite. I think probably the model of my work, which is field where I go and ask people to repeat this action of taking a lump of clay, allowing the space between their hands to become a generative womb out of which form arises, stand it apart from them and make it conscious by giving it two eyes, simply pushing the point of a pencil or a piece of wood into its head that then multiplies and becomes this landscape that completely fills whatever space it's in, whether that's a supermarket, a cathedral or an art gallery. Back at us and makes us the focus of its gaze and says, we are the spirit of the ancestors and we are the spirit of the unborn. What are you doing, the living to make the continuity of life happen?”

    2024-03-25 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 66. Antony Gormley: Art, religion, and the battle for culture · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  3. “Yeah, I mean, I think that's what sculpture is for. It's about saying that there is continuity and that I can talk through these things to people who aren't yet born. And I hope there is an inherent, you know, when we talked about hope earlier, to me, the difference between a painting or a photograph is that this is not, a sculpture is not the picture of something. It is in the world. And by implication, it changes the world. So the making of an object that you put out on the beach, on a mountain, in the street is an expression of a desire to contribute to the evolve evolving world, but also a prayer of hope that it will continue, that it will flourish, that our species will learn to live with all other living beings, as the Buddha hoped we would.”

    2024-03-25 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 66. Antony Gormley: Art, religion, and the battle for culture · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  4. “In river systems and in nodes in the ground made our first tools. So, this sort of reminds me in my right hand is something that reminds me of kind of the age of the planet, but then also the development.”

    2024-03-25 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 66. Antony Gormley: Art, religion, and the battle for culture · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  5. “Has come out of our extraordinary extended arm, our technology is the very thing that is going to kill us and perhaps a very high proportion of the biosphere. So as I sit here, I've got this ancient tree part on my right hand and a piece of copper in my left that feels like a copper nugget. It's almost like this has come dug being dug out of the ground. It feels a bit like a meteorite as well. My new most meteorites are actually iron. There's something lovely about this as well. This talks about the mutability of matter because it sort of, yeah, it's globular. It's small, again, very, very dense. Copper has a density not dissimilar to gold or lead. This just reminds me of the way that we talk about our evolution in terms of material, Stone Age, Iron Age, Bronze Age. This material was what was found in”

    2024-03-25 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 66. Antony Gormley: Art, religion, and the battle for culture · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  6. “Well, I think that's what this stone does. We're here for such a short time. You said this was $130 million old. So from the Cambrian period, we're an extraordinarily successful species. We have learnt to live in every environment that this planet offers apart from Antarctica and the Arctic. But at the same time, that very adaptability”

    2024-03-25 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 66. Antony Gormley: Art, religion, and the battle for culture · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  7. “I'm holding this ancient tree in my right hands or a part of it that has been polished to a very, very high level of sheen. It's cool. And if you look at it, it has all of these extraordinary colors, some sort of light yellows that are almost translucent and then darker, almost dried blood color of ruby red. And it fits in the hand in an extraordinary way. It sort of settles like an egg into the palm of your hand. And there's a sense in which, yes, you're communicating with something that has been around before you and will be around after you. And I guess, you know, that reference to the standing stone, what is a standing stone? A standing stone is a marker in space that makes you aware of your time. And in a way, invites you to spend time with it”

    2024-03-25 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 66. Antony Gormley: Art, religion, and the battle for culture · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  8. “That's why we've got to have different politics, isn't it? That whole thing, knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing is at the root of all of this”

    2024-03-25 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 66. Antony Gormley: Art, religion, and the battle for culture · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  9. “This is still an important prop in our GDP. I am aware that this isn't just our problem, the aging population. And well, you could say the diminishing ability, it seems, of the Western world to replace itself with the same problem as Japan. So what is the answer? In my view, I think Kate Rayworth's doughnut economics is the answer. We've got to give up on the idea of endless growth. It's so obvious. We've got a planet with limited resources, with defined resources, and the goal of endless growth is impossible. So we've got to learn, we've got to learn from what, in a way, COVID told us that actually we can live very differently. Why hasn't you?”

    2024-03-25 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 66. Antony Gormley: Art, religion, and the battle for culture · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  10. “Else. And we need to do it here, but we need to create our confidence in our own future by giving the infrastructure for that future to grow. And I think in the hands of Kir Starmer, that's more likely to happen than if we carry on with the present.”

    2024-03-25 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 66. Antony Gormley: Art, religion, and the battle for culture · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  11. “Yeah, you know, all of the Tories talk of levelling up hasn't happened. I feel more faith here in his sort of ground up attitude for what is necessary will think seriously about the infrastructure of this country. I mean, the whole drama of HS2 and the lack, again, of imagination. Here, we should have in Manchester a place where an internationally important university doing important work on things like graphene should be associated with, as it were, the business acumen to put those revelations into products. I mean, that's been the disaster for Britain that we've always had remarkable ideas, but have then realized some”

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  12. “Hoping that Kiss Stammer will get in. He's a thoroughly decent bloke. I mean, in some ways after the charisma of Boris to actually have somebody who is grounded, who talks about his father as, you know, this toolmaker who was somehow denied by Thatcher and her obsession with Milton Friedman economics his desire to reassert apprenticeship and I hope I heard him the other night just say yes we've got to get art back into the curriculum he's got my vote”

    2024-03-25 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 66. Antony Gormley: Art, religion, and the battle for culture · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  13. “We need proportional representation. Yes, we need, in a way, we need a politics that is to do with issues and the necessary things that will make our species flourish, not this endless kind of dialectic between worker and businessman or something that seems to come from another age, a kind of master slave mentality that just isn't true for now.”

    2024-03-25 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 66. Antony Gormley: Art, religion, and the battle for culture · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  14. “Well, I think that I always go back to EO Wilson and we have medieval institutions, Paleolithic emotions and God-given technology, but the way that those things interact is all fractious. And the fact is, I think of our politics is always defined in a way by past actions. This is like almost a karma thing from Buddhism. It seems to me that the Tory labor kind of dialectic is something that might have made sense in the 40s, but just doesn't make sense now. So the allegiances that politics leads us to have to fit ourselves into don't fit the world in which we have the entire knowledge of humankind in our smartphones. I think, yes,”

    2024-03-25 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 66. Antony Gormley: Art, religion, and the battle for culture · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  15. “It's an absolute disaster. It's a fundamental failure of imagination. It's a fundamental betrayal of what was a creative necessity after the Second World War. All of the sacrifices that my grandparents and my parents made in order to make a free, open Europe, that we were so much part of the creation of and we threw it away for nothing. For nothing. It makes me angry and sad.”

    2024-03-25 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 66. Antony Gormley: Art, religion, and the battle for culture · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  16. “Hold up your hand and you chew charcoal or you blow ochre and you leave this sense of touch between the skin of the earth and the skin of a living body as a kind of marker in time. That is one very, very strong, I think, reference for me. I think of my work as shadows in a sense. They indicate indexically, they are forensic proof of where a body once was, but by implication where anybody could be.”

    2024-03-25 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 66. Antony Gormley: Art, religion, and the battle for culture · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  17. “I guess I want my work to be timeless. I'm really pleased that I haven't been caught by fashion. I don't think my work kind of fits in. Oh, that's what they were making in Britain in 1980. I'm kind of, they can't box me to that kind of thing. I think that our species has always found it necessary to make models of itself in order to understand itself. And I go back to the stencils on the cave of Peshmel or, well, anywhere on the Maros caves in Sulawesi.”

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  18. “I was very influenced by Joseph Boyce, but I have never thought of myself as a shaman or as a guru. Absolutely not. But I absolutely believe in the idea. Of the art object or the experience of the field of art as a catalyst for mindfulness. I really do believe that.”

    2024-03-25 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 66. Antony Gormley: Art, religion, and the battle for culture · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  19. “That was my introduction to, I think, the first-hand experience of a form of knowledge that had nothing to do with books, that had nothing to do with being able to reproduce the great thoughts or the histories of our species, embedded my consciousness back into being, using existence as a form of examining existence.”

    2024-03-25 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 66. Antony Gormley: Art, religion, and the battle for culture · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  20. “You can feel that cool air passing your upper lip. You breathe out, you can feel that warm air touching your upper lip. Anyway, the breath is an extraordinary thing because it is both alleatoric, in other words, it's controlled by the systems of the body, but it can also be controlled. You know, you can force your breathing. So it's an amazing indicator of this bridge between, you could say, conscious and unconscious or the limbic system and your conscious kind of controlling mind. Anapana then continues, if you manage to maintain your concentration on that point on your upper lip, you can begin to make what they call a bije, just a point of samadhi or concentration. And at a certain point, you move that point of concentration to the top of your head and you begin to move it in a spiral manner through the whole volume of your body.”

    2024-03-25 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 66. Antony Gormley: Art, religion, and the battle for culture · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  21. “That's no, no, we're just going to do about three minutes. So concentration on breathing. Now, just breathe through your nose. As you breathe in,”

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  22. “So he was part of the International Buddhist Center in Rangoon. But his whole thing was, and this is a continuation of where we were talking before firsthand experience. You can know about Buddhism intellectually, but I want you to experience it. So you do. And we should do this now. I mean, that gateway for me was how do you achieve concentration? So let's try it. Let's just close our eyes. The first three days of a 10-day course are Anapana.”

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  23. “Yeah, he did in the end. It was funny. He took me off to Core Abbey on the Isle of Wight for a retreat, a wonderful abbot monk, Father Anthony there. And that was really good. It was good for me to have that reconciliation. But they let me go to India. I mean, I just disappeared after Cambridge. I just disappeared for three years. It took me a year to get to India, the Indian-Pakistan war was going on. I went through the Wagga corridor. met these Tibetans and they said, oh, come with me, come with us. We're going to Dalhousie. And I'd known Charles Hastings, who was really into Tibetan Buddhism, so Mahayana school. And I said, yeah, well, I'll come with you. And then I met Goenka.”

    2024-03-25 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 66. Antony Gormley: Art, religion, and the battle for culture · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  24. “Yeah. Absolutely no question, but I'm also worried about that as a model. I think that artists are vocation who don't choose it. It chooses you. There has been, I think one of the downsides of the YBA, the Damon Hearst kind of generation, was that now if you haven't been approached by a gallery by the time you do your degree show at art school, you feel you've failed.”

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  25. “The interesting thing is that the upper echelons of the Chinese Communist Party are pretty disinterested in art, and it is really interesting that actually some of the most groundbreaking art being made today is being made by Chinese artists. That's because they've always been somehow below the political kind of horizon in terms of the power of that nation. Yeah, I won't work in Saudi Arabia, for example. for similar reasons a lot of money in that particular time.”

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  26. “Well, I think that everything that Putin represents and has done, I feel that his whole regime in doing one I would be supporting his regime and I can't.”

    2024-03-25 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 66. Antony Gormley: Art, religion, and the battle for culture · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  27. “Well, I wouldn't do it now. I believe in the central role of art as a bridge across gender, race, language and political system. So I had a show last year in China. I will do a show this year in China in spite of the fact that Xi Jinping's regime is horrendous.”

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  28. “Yes, I heard about his time in the conservatoire and that gave me hope. I have to say I did feel maybe we're up for a change.”

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  29. “Well, I mean, we had Greg Gowry. We have had some great and inspirational arts ministers, and we need them again. To fulfill your ambition of Britain as a creative soft plower force in the world, I think we need a minister who really believes that and hopefully is a, I mean, the culture minister in waiting is a cellist, and that gives me hope. And I learned the other day that”

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  30. “I would elevate that. I mean, you know, when you have Andre Malro, you get something when you get Jacques Lang, you have something absolutely extraordinary that happens.”

    2024-03-25 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 66. Antony Gormley: Art, religion, and the battle for culture · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  31. “Well, I just think that the 7.5 billion that the creative industry is bringing into the Treasury is not the argument that I would use. I would always use the... Intrinsic value of art and the fact that this is politicians come and go, but the art is in a way the trace that we leave of our hopes and our fears. And I would say, you know, I'm just very depressed by the fact that in terms of our government kind of hierarchy, it's always the cultural minister that is at the bottom rung.”

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  32. “terrible government which has kind of consistently undermined the very thing that people you know when you think about what a culture's values are where do you go you go to its music its dance its theatre And its art. And yet, this is the thing that has been consistently undermined, both in education and in the support of our institutions. Having said that, I don't want to be totally negative. We have maintained the absolute importance of keeping our museums free and open to everyone. And I think that the art schools continue. But I am very, very aware they're underfunded and it seems like they depend for 30% of their funding on foreign students.”

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  33. “Anyway, I mean, I feel that art schools have now become extremely dependent on particularly Southeast Asian students that often don't have English as their first language. That's no problem per se. Actually, you have to be quite rich.”

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  34. “Is because of the quality of our art schools. That is something that we inherited from the 60s. I ask myself, where does alternative thinking come from to businesses as usual? It will always come from, you know, usually people who are dyslexic, who have had to find other ways of communicating. And where have the nests for those souls to grow been? Well, it has been articles. We wouldn't have got the Beatles without art schools. somehow there was a change in the 80s, late 70s and 80s when art schools started behaving like universities, things that used to be about learning from the guy next door or being taught by an artist that was making his name or her name out in the international art world was replaced by a lot of administering art tutors.”

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  35. “It's an absolute disaster. I have no idea. The Arts Council was founded by Maynard Keynes with the idea of arm's length policy. There should be no, I mean, you know, we will end up with a Guring. I mean, it's just state-sponsored propaganda. Yeah, we cannot allow art to become propaganda. Art schools are the reason that British art has become of international significance.”

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  36. “That is an absolute key in self determination in the building of a psyche of a character, of a person, of a self. And without it, we are victims of a late capitalist world and we're all kind of racing one against the other as to what little kind of hole in this cliff face we can occupy. If Demis Asibis or Sam Altman are right that AI is going to solve intelligence, it's going to make energy free. We are all going to now become redundant. Well, we better all become artists. We better find a meaningful way of making sense.”

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  37. “I think art is a fundamental human or the making of things, the making of images, the making of marks is a fundamental human need. It has been part of our survival, as I said earlier, from Paleolithic times. It is also a basic human right. The first thing to say is, Archould be on the curriculum. It is absolutely necessary, irrespective. I'm aware that I had a very privileged background. But I think you give any child from the age of two onwards a sheet of paper and a way of making a mark, and they'll go. At a certain point, because of our culture, they become self-conscious about that in a way need to lead, even if it's just a trace. There's a sense in which I have affected some part of the world by that trace, that making of a mark. And I think...”

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  38. “They're an attempt to put human biological time in relation to sidereal planetary time. And I can't think of any way of doing it better. At the same time, I am making works that have no body reference because it's the viewer's body that then becomes the subject of the work. And these are works like Breathing Room or Clearing. I don't know if either of you went to the Royal Academy show, but clearing is 11 kilometers of endless, a singular line without beginning or end that is like a big scribble, but it's in the room, it's up against the ceiling, it's down on the floor, it's bouncing off the walls, and it feels like the most crazy kind of, well, I call it a quantum drawing because it won't persist within, as it were, the Euclidean geometry of our chosen habitat. What it is, is an energy field, and you have to duck.”

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  39. “You're thinking about your turquoise mountain glasses. Well, at least I am. Immediately you start thinking. I think of these incredibly lucid blue glasses with tiny bubbles in. I'm going to say something that may sound totally counterintuitive. I think of my work as being about space, not being about objects, but how can you activate space? I want to use the density of mass as a catalyst for making these fields in which your movement”

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  40. “No, it is iron. It's important. It might start as steel. So it starts. As brake discs, and then it's melted down, reverts to the same condition of the core of this planet.”

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  41. “So there are three miles of coastline and about a kilometer out to sea. And when the sea comes in, they disappear apart from the ones that are above the tideline. And the ones that are furthest out at high tide, because it's a tipped plane eight meters below the surface. And this, I mean, for me, what is this? This is, yes, making art in the time of mechanical reproduction. So the works become a field. You can't say this is a singular unique object. It's a field effect. And the viewer that the participator is invited to be part of that field, you're part of the picture.”

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  42. “Yeah, and they spread. They're about 200 meters apart, so they're extremely isolated, even though they're together. And it's a good space.”

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  43. “Yeah, good point. I think that the truth is that that experience of the darkness of the body for me was a reversal. You could say that all platonic but also Christian kind of cosmologies are towards the light, towards the light. Darkness is somehow evil and is full of repression and kind of motivations that we can't understand but leads to violence and despair. And I discovered in Vipassana completely the opposite, that within that darkness of the body is actually potential in coming to terms, you could say, with the void within, suddenly I was released from all of this guilt, all of this, well, the original sin that Catholicism had landed me with. But it's interesting for me, I think of what I do, or certainly if we think of another place, these are industrially made fossils. That simply indicate a place of human time.”

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  44. “The story is being sent up for an enforced rest after lunch and being a good Catholic boy being told not to move, being told, but not being able to sleep, and just having this experience of lying completely still and becoming aware The space within the body, and it would start with this claustrophobic red kind of hot space, but behind closed eyes. As I got more familiar with it because this was a repeated discipline, it became cooler and bigger until it became this space in which there was no objects, there was no edge, there was no bounding condition. It had infinite extension. And that experience as a very young child was then reinforced when I went to India and started studying meditation.”

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  45. “This is a red passport, not a blue one. But anyway, it'll start like this. But this comes from what I'm doing in the studio. So what's happening in the studio then gets translated into this and I'm thinking how can I push it further? So this is, believe it or not, a body, but it's a body as a zone of energy. We're making this, but at the same time I'm trying to push it. I'm trying to say how can we lose the body entirely or lose the body enough so that you don't know whether the energy field is created by the body or the body created by the energy field. And that's what really, I mean, you know, this, yes, we talked about my work as if it was always like 200 tons of the angel or the, I guess another place is about 60 tons of iron.”

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  46. “But it usually starts like sorry, I'm opening a little book. It's a mooji book. It's the size of a passport and I've just got it out of my pocket. It's a nice book.”

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  47. “They then transferred it into a buildable thing where we use the ribs of a ship on the outside to be the form of this thing. But for me, this connects with the cathedrals. It connects that, you know, we live in a time when art has been institutionalized and commodified. Yet for most of it, if we think from Paleolithic times onwards, for most of the 25,000 years that art has been part of our evolution, it has been made usually in community for community. And this is a continuation.”

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  48. “It's a massive kind of problem for it not to blow over. I needed a lot of help. I was molded with my arms out. I did have to have sticks because it takes about an hour, an hour and a half. But that was my very kind of small beginning. I then took that design. We had to digitize it, which we did with the help of Newcastle University.”

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  49. “That had made that shape out of six millimeter shiplate and learned how to bend it. Find them and say, let's make something together that tells the world what you're capable of in a different form.”

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  50. “Art comes out of life, it should go back into life. For me, I can just remember going around Hartleypool and Middlesbrough with the Maquette in the back of a Luton band, opening up a kind of shutter at the back while there was a bunch of people in their brown coats or their overalls. And I'd say, how can we make this, mates? And it was just fantastic. This is a time when swan hunters had closed down and one by one all those amazing shipyards on the time that I grew up watching on the news. Again, a very similar kind of memory to seeing those Assyrian bulls, these massive things going down the slipway, bigger than the houses that were either side. And you see them in black and white kind of suddenly this thing that the size of a cathedral suddenly moves. Anyway, I had to find the people.”

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