YouSaid · the spoken record

Ben Mann

lines on the record: 88
first: 2025-07-20
most recent: 2025-07-20
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

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“It's just using the model to improve itself recursively and align itself with these values that we've decided are good. And this is also not something that we think as a small group of people in San Francisco should be figuring out. This should be a society-wide conversation. And that's why we've published the Constitution. And we've also done a bunch of research on defining a collective constitution where we ask a lot of people what their values are and what they think an AI model should behave like. But yeah, this is all an ongoing area of research where we're constantly iterating.”
2025-07-20 · Lenny's Podcast · Anthropic co-founder on quitting OpenAI, AGI predictions, $100M talent wars, 20% unemployment, and the nightmare scenarios keeping him up at night | Ben Mann · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Constitutional principles might be more or less applicable to the prompt that was given. And so first we have to figure out which ones might apply. And then once we figure that out, then we ask the model itself to first generate a response and then see, does the response actually abide by the constitutional principle? And if the answer is, yep, I was great, then nothing happens. But if the answer is no, actually I wasn't in compliance with the principle, then we ask the model itself to critique itself and rewrite its own response in light of the principle. And then we just remove the middle part where it did the extra work. And then we say, okay, in the future. Just produce the correct response out the gate. And that simple process, hopefully it's unusual.”
2025-07-20 · Lenny's Podcast · Anthropic co-founder on quitting OpenAI, AGI predictions, $100M talent wars, 20% unemployment, and the nightmare scenarios keeping him up at night | Ben Mann · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I'll just give a quick overview of how constitutionally AI actually works. Perfect. The idea is the model is going to produce some output with some input by default before we've done our safety and helpful and harmlessness training. So let's say an example is like, write me a story. And then the constitutional principles might include things like Know people should be nice to each other and not have hate speech. And you should not expose somebody's credentials if they give them to you in a trusting relationship. And so some of these”
2025-07-20 · Lenny's Podcast · Anthropic co-founder on quitting OpenAI, AGI predictions, $100M talent wars, 20% unemployment, and the nightmare scenarios keeping him up at night | Ben Mann · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“That's right. That's right. From a distance, it might seem quite disconnected, how is this going to prevent X risk? But ultimately, it's about the AI understanding what people want and not what they say. I think it is really quite connected.”
2025-07-20 · Lenny's Podcast · Anthropic co-founder on quitting OpenAI, AGI predictions, $100M talent wars, 20% unemployment, and the nightmare scenarios keeping him up at night | Ben Mann · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Maybe you should talk to a medical professional, or maybe you should consider not trying to build bioweapons or something like that. So yeah, I guess that's part of it. And then another piece that's come out is constitutional AI, where we have this list of natural language principles that leads the model to learn how we think a model should behave. And they've been taken from things like the UN Declaration of Human Rights and Apple's privacy terms of service and a whole bunch of other places, many of which we've just generated ourselves, that allow us to take a more principled stance, not just leaving it to whatever human raiders we happen to find, but we ourselves deciding what should the values of this agent be. And that's been really valuable for our customers because they can just look at that list and say, like, yep, these seem right. I like this company. I like this model. I trust it.”
2025-07-20 · Lenny's Podcast · Anthropic co-founder on quitting OpenAI, AGI predictions, $100M talent wars, 20% unemployment, and the nightmare scenarios keeping him up at night | Ben Mann · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, so initially we thought that it would be sort of one or the other, but I think since then we've realized that it's actually kind of convex in the sense that working on one helps us with the other thing. So initially when Opus 3 came out and we were finally at the frontier of model capabilities, one of the things that people really loved about it was the character and the personality. And that was directly a result of our alignment research. Amanda Askell did a ton of work on this as well as many others who tried to figure out what does it mean for an agent to be helpful, honest, and harmless? And what does it mean to be in difficult conversations and show up effectively? How do you do a refusal that doesn't shut the person down but makes them feel like they understand why the agent said, I can't help you with that?”
2025-07-20 · Lenny's Podcast · Anthropic co-founder on quitting OpenAI, AGI predictions, $100M talent wars, 20% unemployment, and the nightmare scenarios keeping him up at night | Ben Mann · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Have safety and be at the frontier at the same time. And if you look at something like sycophancy, I think Claude is one of the least sycophantic models because we've put so much effort into actual alignment and not just trying to good heart our metrics of saying user engagement is number one. And if people say yes, then it's good for them.”
2025-07-20 · Lenny's Podcast · Anthropic co-founder on quitting OpenAI, AGI predictions, $100M talent wars, 20% unemployment, and the nightmare scenarios keeping him up at night | Ben Mann · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Then I would say maybe less than a thousand people working on it worldwide, which is just crazy. That was fundamentally why we left. We felt like we wanted an organization where we could be on the frontier, we could be doing the fundamental research, but we could be prioritizing safety ahead of everything else. And I think that's really panned out for us in a surprising way. Like we didn't know even if it would be possible to make progress on the safety research because at the time We had tried a bunch of safety through debate and the models weren't good enough. And so we basically had null results on all of that work. And now that exact technique is working and many others that we have been thinking about for a long time. So yeah, fundamentally it comes down to is safety the number one priority? And then something that we've sort of tacked on since then is like can you”
2025-07-20 · Lenny's Podcast · Anthropic co-founder on quitting OpenAI, AGI predictions, $100M talent wars, 20% unemployment, and the nightmare scenarios keeping him up at night | Ben Mann · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And there are good reasons that you might think that. Like, if you thought safety was going to be easy to solve, or if you thought it wasn't going to have a big impact, or if you thought that the chance of big negative outcomes was vanishingly small, then maybe you would just do those kinds of actions. But an anthropic, we felt, I mean, we didn't exist then, but it was basically the leads of all the safety teams at OpenAI. We felt that safety is really important, especially on the margin. And so if you look at like who in the world is actually working on safety problems, it's a pretty small set of people even now. I mean, the industry is blowing up, as I mentioned, like 300 billion a year CapEx today.”
2025-07-20 · Lenny's Podcast · Anthropic co-founder on quitting OpenAI, AGI predictions, $100M talent wars, 20% unemployment, and the nightmare scenarios keeping him up at night | Ben Mann · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“One weird thing about OpenAI is that while I was there, Sam talked about having three tribes that needed to be kept in check with each other, which was the safety tribe, the research tribe, and the startup tribe. And whenever I heard that, it just struck me as the wrong way to approach things because the company's mission apparently is to make the transition to AGI safe and beneficial for humanity. And that's basically the same as Anthropics mission. But internally, it felt like there was so much tension around these things. When push came to shove, we felt like safety wasn't the top priority there.”
2025-07-20 · Lenny's Podcast · Anthropic co-founder on quitting OpenAI, AGI predictions, $100M talent wars, 20% unemployment, and the nightmare scenarios keeping him up at night | Ben Mann · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, so for the listeners, I was part of the GPT3 project at OpenAI, ended up being one of the first authors on the paper. And I also did a bunch of demos for Microsoft to help raise a billion dollars from them, did the tech transfer of GBD3 to their system so that they could help serve the model in Azure. So I did a bunch of different things there on both the more researchy side and the product side”
2025-07-20 · Lenny's Podcast · Anthropic co-founder on quitting OpenAI, AGI predictions, $100M talent wars, 20% unemployment, and the nightmare scenarios keeping him up at night | Ben Mann · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And curious and kind. And the Montessori school is definitely doing great at that. They text us throughout the day. Sometimes they're like, oh, your kid got in an argument with this other kid and she has really big emotions and she tried to use her words that I love that. I think that's exactly the kind of education that I think is most important that the facts are going to fade into the background.”
2025-07-20 · Lenny's Podcast · Anthropic co-founder on quitting OpenAI, AGI predictions, $100M talent wars, 20% unemployment, and the nightmare scenarios keeping him up at night | Ben Mann · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, I have two daughters, a one year old and a three year old. So it's pretty in the basics still. And our three-year-old is now capable of just conversing with Alexa Plus and asking her to explain stuff and play music for her and all that stuff. So she's been loving that. But I guess more broadly she goes to a Montessori school. And I just love the focus on curiosity and creativity and like self-led learning that Montessori has. I guess if I were in a normal era like 10, 20 years ago and I had a kid, maybe I would be like trying to line her up for going to a top tier school and doing all the extracurriculars and all that stuff. But at this point, I don't think any of it's going to matter. I just want her to be happy and”
2025-07-20 · Lenny's Podcast · Anthropic co-founder on quitting OpenAI, AGI predictions, $100M talent wars, 20% unemployment, and the nightmare scenarios keeping him up at night | Ben Mann · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Think in that area, it's more like your team will just do dramatically more stuff. We're definitely not slowing down on hiring at all. And some people are confused by that. Even in an onboarding class, somebody asked that and they were like, why did you hire me if we're all just going to be replaced? And the answer is the next couple of years are really critical to get right. And we're not at the point where we're doing complete replacement. Like I said, we're still at that flat zero looking part of the exponential compared to where we will be. It is super important to have great people and that's why we're hiring super aggressively.”
2025-07-20 · Lenny's Podcast · Anthropic co-founder on quitting OpenAI, AGI predictions, $100M talent wars, 20% unemployment, and the nightmare scenarios keeping him up at night | Ben Mann · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, I mean, you can just literally ask the exact same question. These things are stochastic, and sometimes they'll figure it out and sometimes they won't. Like in every one of these model cards, it always shows pass it one versus pass it n and that's exactly the thing where they try the exact same prompt. Sometimes it gets it, sometimes doesn't. So that's the dumbest advice. But yeah, I think if you want to be a little bit smarter about it, there can be gains there of saying like here's what you already tried and it didn't work. So don't try that. Try something different. That can also help.”
2025-07-20 · Lenny's Podcast · Anthropic co-founder on quitting OpenAI, AGI predictions, $100M talent wars, 20% unemployment, and the nightmare scenarios keeping him up at night | Ben Mann · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Even though that's a coding example, and coding is one of the areas that's taking off most dramatically, we have seen internally that our legal team and our finance team are getting a ton of value out of using cloud code itself. We're going to be making better interfaces so that they'll have an easier time and require a little bit less jumping in the deep end of using cloud code in the terminal. But yeah, we're seeing them use it to redline documents and use it to run big query analyses of our customers and our revenue metrics. So I guess it's about taking that risk. And even if it feels like a scary thing, trying it out.”
2025-07-20 · Lenny's Podcast · Anthropic co-founder on quitting OpenAI, AGI predictions, $100M talent wars, 20% unemployment, and the nightmare scenarios keeping him up at night | Ben Mann · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“But in terms of the transition period, yeah, I think there are things that we can do. And I think a big part of it is just being ambitious in how you use the tools and being willing to learn new tools. People who use the new tools as if they were old tools tend to not succeed. So as an example of that, when you're coding, people are very familiar with Autocomplete. People are familiar with simple chat where they can ask questions about the code base. But the difference between people who use Cloud Code very effectively and people who use it not so effectively is like, are they asking for the ambitious change? And if it doesn't work the first time, asking three more times because our success rate when you just completely start over and try again is much, much higher than if you just try once and then just keep banging on the same thing that didn't work.”
2025-07-20 · Lenny's Podcast · Anthropic co-founder on quitting OpenAI, AGI predictions, $100M talent wars, 20% unemployment, and the nightmare scenarios keeping him up at night | Ben Mann · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Even for me, and being like in the center of a lot of this transformation, I'm not immune to job replacement either. So just some vulnerability there of like at some point it's coming for all of us.”
2025-07-20 · Lenny's Podcast · Anthropic co-founder on quitting OpenAI, AGI predictions, $100M talent wars, 20% unemployment, and the nightmare scenarios keeping him up at night | Ben Mann · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“A hiring manager at a growth company and heard them say, I don't want to hire more people. So that's the hopeful version of it. But with things that are lower skill jobs or less headroom on how good they can be, I think there will be a lot of displacement. So it's just something we as a society need to get ahead of and work on.”
2025-07-20 · Lenny's Podcast · Anthropic co-founder on quitting OpenAI, AGI predictions, $100M talent wars, 20% unemployment, and the nightmare scenarios keeping him up at night | Ben Mann · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And in terms of software engineering, our cloud code team, like 95% of the code is written by Claude. But I think a different way to phrase that is that we write 10x more code or 20x more code. And so a much, much smaller team can just be much, much more impactful. And similarly for the customer service, yes, you can phrase it as 82% customer service resolution rates, but that nets out in the humans doing those tasks, able to focus on the harder parts of those tasks. And for the more tricky situations that in a normal world, you know, like five years ago, they would have had to just drop those tickets because it was too much effort for them to actually go do the investigation. There were too many other tickets for them to worry about. So I think in the immediate term, there will be a massive expansion of the pie and the amount of labor that people can do. Like I've never met.”
2025-07-20 · Lenny's Podcast · Anthropic co-founder on quitting OpenAI, AGI predictions, $100M talent wars, 20% unemployment, and the nightmare scenarios keeping him up at night | Ben Mann · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And that's the plot that we've been on for a long time. I guess I started feeling it in maybe like 2019 when GPT-2 came out and I was like, oh, this is how we're going to get to AGI. But I think that was pretty early compared to a lot of people where when they saw ChatGPT, they were like, wow, something is different and changing. And so I guess I wouldn't expect widespread transformation in a lot of parts of society. And I would expect this skepticism reaction. I think it's very reasonable and it's like exactly what is the standard linear view of progress. But I guess to cite a couple of areas where I think things are changing quite quickly, in customer service, we're seeing with things like fan and intercom, they're a great partner of ours, 82% customer service resolution rates automatically without a human involved.”
2025-07-20 · Lenny's Podcast · Anthropic co-founder on quitting OpenAI, AGI predictions, $100M talent wars, 20% unemployment, and the nightmare scenarios keeping him up at night | Ben Mann · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Think part of this is that people are really bad at modeling exponential progress. And if you look at an exponential on a graph, it looks flat and almost zero at the beginning of it. And then suddenly you hit the knee of the curve and things are changing.”
2025-07-20 · Lenny's Podcast · Anthropic co-founder on quitting OpenAI, AGI predictions, $100M talent wars, 20% unemployment, and the nightmare scenarios keeping him up at night | Ben Mann · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Pretty easy to say hopefully we'll have figured it out, and in a world of abundance, maybe the jobs themselves, it's not that scary. And I think making sure that that transition time goes well is pretty important.”
2025-07-20 · Lenny's Podcast · Anthropic co-founder on quitting OpenAI, AGI predictions, $100M talent wars, 20% unemployment, and the nightmare scenarios keeping him up at night | Ben Mann · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“That also means in a world of abundance where labor is almost free and anything you want to do, you can just ask an expert to do it for you, then what do jobs even look like? And so I guess there's this like scary transition period from where we are today, where people have jobs and capitalism works and the world of 20 years from now where everything is completely different. But part of the reason they call it the singularity is that it's like a point beyond which you can't easily forecast what's going to happen. It's just such a fast rate of change and so different that it's hard to even imagine. So I guess taking the like view from the limit.”
2025-07-20 · Lenny's Podcast · Anthropic co-founder on quitting OpenAI, AGI predictions, $100M talent wars, 20% unemployment, and the nightmare scenarios keeping him up at night | Ben Mann · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah. So from an economic standpoint, there's a couple different kinds of unemployment. And one is because the workers just don't have the skills to do the kinds of jobs that the economy needs. And another kind is where those jobs are just completely eliminated. And I think it's going to be actually a combination of these things. But if you just think about like 20 years in the future where we're way past the singularity, it's hard for me to imagine that even capitalism will look at all like it looks today. Like if we do our jobs right, we will have safe aligned superintelligence. We'll have, as Dario says in Machines of Loving Grace, a country of geniuses in a data center and the ability to accelerate positive change in science, technology education, mathematics, like it's going to be amazing.”
2025-07-20 · Lenny's Podcast · Anthropic co-founder on quitting OpenAI, AGI predictions, $100M talent wars, 20% unemployment, and the nightmare scenarios keeping him up at night | Ben Mann · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Past economic training tests for like 50% of money weighted jobs, then we have transformative AI. And the exact thresholds don't really matter that much, but it's kind of illustrative to say, like, if we pass that threshold, then we would expect massive effects on world GDP increases and societal change and how many people are employed and things like that. societal institutions and organizations are sticky. It's slow to have change. But once these things are possible, you know that it's the start of a new era.”
2025-07-20 · Lenny's Podcast · Anthropic co-founder on quitting OpenAI, AGI predictions, $100M talent wars, 20% unemployment, and the nightmare scenarios keeping him up at night | Ben Mann · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Think AGI is kind of a loaded term, and so I tend not to use it very much anymore internally. Instead, I like the term transformative AI because it's less about, can it do as much as people do? Can it do literally everything? And more about objectively, is it causing transformation in society and the economy? And a very concrete way of measuring that is the economic trading test. I didn't come up with this, but I really like it. It's this idea that if you contract an agent for a month or three months on a particular job, if you decide to hire that agent, and it turns out to be a machine rather than a person, then it's past the economic turning test for that role. And then you can sort of expand that out in the same way that for measuring like purchasing power parity or inflation, there's a basket of goods. You can have like a market basket of jobs. And if the agent can”
2025-07-20 · Lenny's Podcast · Anthropic co-founder on quitting OpenAI, AGI predictions, $100M talent wars, 20% unemployment, and the nightmare scenarios keeping him up at night | Ben Mann · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Guess to be a little bit more generous to the people saying things are slowing down, I think that for some tasks, we are saturating the amount of intelligence needed for that task. Like maybe to extract information from a simple document that already has form fields on it or something like it's just so easy that, okay, yeah, we're already at 100%. And there's this great chart on our world in data that shows that when you release a new benchmark within like six to 12 months, it immediately gets saturated. And so maybe the real constraint is like how can we come up with better benchmarks and better ambition of using the tools that then reveals the bumps in intelligence that we're seeing now?”
2025-07-20 · Lenny's Podcast · Anthropic co-founder on quitting OpenAI, AGI predictions, $100M talent wars, 20% unemployment, and the nightmare scenarios keeping him up at night | Ben Mann · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“But if you look at the scaling laws, they're continuing to hold true. We did kind of need this transition from normal pre-training to reinforcement learning scaling up to continue the scaling laws. But I think it's kind of like for semiconductors where it's less about the density of transistors that you can fit on a chip and more about how many flops can you fit in a data center or something. You have to change the definition around a little bit to like keep your eye on the prize but yeah this is one of the few phenomena in the world that has held across so many orders of magnitude. It's actually pretty surprising that it is continuing to hold to me if you look at like fundamental laws of physics many of them don't hold across 15 orders of magnitude. So it's pretty surprising.”
2025-07-20 · Lenny's Podcast · Anthropic co-founder on quitting OpenAI, AGI predictions, $100M talent wars, 20% unemployment, and the nightmare scenarios keeping him up at night | Ben Mann · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It's kind of funny because this narrative comes out like every six months or so, and it's never been true. And so I kind of wish people would have like a little bit of a bullshit detector in their heads when they see this. I think progress has actually been accelerating, where if you look at the cadence of model releases, it used to be like once a year. And now with the improvements in our post-training techniques, we're seeing releases every month or three months. So I would say progress is actually accelerating in many ways, but there's this like weird time compression effect. Dario compared it to being in a near light speed journey where a day that passes for you is like five days back on earth and we're accelerating. So the time dilation is increasing. And I think that's part of what's causing people to say that progress is slowing down.”
2025-07-20 · Lenny's Podcast · Anthropic co-founder on quitting OpenAI, AGI predictions, $100M talent wars, 20% unemployment, and the nightmare scenarios keeping him up at night | Ben Mann · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“If you extrapolate the exponential and how much companies are spending, it's like two X a year roughly in terms of CapEx. And today we're maybe in the globally $300 billion range, the entire industry spending on this. And so numbers like $100 million are a drop in the bucket. But if you go a few years out, a couple more doublings, we're talking about trillions of dollars. And at that point, it's just really hard to think about these numbers.”
2025-07-20 · Lenny's Podcast · Anthropic co-founder on quitting OpenAI, AGI predictions, $100M talent wars, 20% unemployment, and the nightmare scenarios keeping him up at night | Ben Mann · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Pretty sure it's real if you just think about the amount of impact that individuals can have on a company's trajectory. In our case, We are selling hotcakes. And if we get a one to 10 or 5% efficiency bonus on our inference stack, that is worth an incredible amount of money. And so to pay individuals $100 million over four-year package, that's actually pretty cheap compared to the value created for the business. So I think we're just in an unprecedented era of scale and it's only going to get crazier actually.”
2025-07-20 · Lenny's Podcast · Anthropic co-founder on quitting OpenAI, AGI predictions, $100M talent wars, 20% unemployment, and the nightmare scenarios keeping him up at night | Ben Mann · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Me, it's not a hard choice. Other people have different life circumstances, and it makes it a much harder decision for them. So for anybody who does get those mega offers and accepts them, I can't say I hold it against them when they accept it, but it's definitely not something that I would want to take myself if it came to me.”
2025-07-20 · Lenny's Podcast · Anthropic co-founder on quitting OpenAI, AGI predictions, $100M talent wars, 20% unemployment, and the nightmare scenarios keeping him up at night | Ben Mann · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I mean, I think this is a sign of the times. The technology that we're developing is extremely valuable. Our company is growing super, super fast. Many of the other companies in the space are growing really fast. I think we've been maybe much less affected than many of the other companies in the space because people here are so mission oriented and they stay because they get these offers and then they say, well, of course I'm not going to leave because my best case scenario at Meta is that we make money and my best case scenario at Anthropic is we like affect the future of humanity and try to make AI flourish and human flourishing go well.”
2025-07-20 · Lenny's Podcast · Anthropic co-founder on quitting OpenAI, AGI predictions, $100M talent wars, 20% unemployment, and the nightmare scenarios keeping him up at night | Ben Mann · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“If you just think about like 20 years in the future, where we're way past the singularity, it's hard for me to imagine that even capitalism will look at all like it looks today.”
2025-07-20 · Lenny's Podcast · Anthropic co-founder on quitting OpenAI, AGI predictions, $100M talent wars, 20% unemployment, and the nightmare scenarios keeping him up at night | Ben Mann · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“We've been much less affected because people here get these offers and then they say, well, of course, I'm not going to leave because my best case scenario at Meta is that we make money. And my best case scenario at Anthropic is we like affect the future of humanity.”
2025-07-20 · Lenny's Podcast · Anthropic co-founder on quitting OpenAI, AGI predictions, $100M talent wars, 20% unemployment, and the nightmare scenarios keeping him up at night | Ben Mann · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Once we get to superintelligence, it will be too late to align the models. My best granularity forecast for like could we have an X risk or extremely bad outcome is somewhere between 0 and 10%”
2025-07-20 · Lenny's Podcast · Anthropic co-founder on quitting OpenAI, AGI predictions, $100M talent wars, 20% unemployment, and the nightmare scenarios keeping him up at night | Ben Mann · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Felt like safety wasn't the top priority there. The case for safety has gotten a lot more concrete. So super intelligence is a lot about how do we keep God in a box and not let the God out.”
2025-07-20 · Lenny's Podcast · Anthropic co-founder on quitting OpenAI, AGI predictions, $100M talent wars, 20% unemployment, and the nightmare scenarios keeping him up at night | Ben Mann · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source