YouSaid · the spoken record

Brent Bushnell

lines on the record: 54
first: 2015-11-18
most recent: 2015-11-18
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“Yeah, this is just the beginning. And think of the events as the tip of the spear. There'll be an entire ecosystem around this of home solutions, YouTube channel, and another thing we're very excited to announce with you later.”
2015-11-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brent Bushnell and Eric Gradman, Two Bit Circus Co-Founders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So we're taking it on tour 2016. We did a prototype in Los Angeles last year. Los Angeles. But we wanted the big launch to be in San Francisco. And so that's today. We opened the doors today and we're taking it on the road. We'll do four cities next year. We start in Seattle on April Fools.”
2015-11-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brent Bushnell and Eric Gradman, Two Bit Circus Co-Founders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, I mean, I think it's a really, I mean, it's definitely a complex issue because I think that there's the cultural component, there's the peers giving them a hard time, culturally we expect there to be certain roles, whether that's true or not, some of that sort of baked into our media. And so there's sort of a lot that we need to overcome in order to do this. Not that it's not possible, but we definitely need to think about it. Any mom who says, oh, I'm not good at math, you wouldn't say, oh, I'm not good at English, right? Nobody should say, oh, I'm not good at math, right? It allows for that to be an okay thing.”
2015-11-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brent Bushnell and Eric Gradman, Two Bit Circus Co-Founders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And we've actually gone out of our way to reach out to girls. We've done programs with Girl Scouts and crafted material to make sure that.”
2015-11-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brent Bushnell and Eric Gradman, Two Bit Circus Co-Founders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Oh, I think it's very gender balanced at the SEM Carnival in the programs that we develop If you look at any of the workshops that we've put on, the kits that we've developed, they target boys and girls equally well.”
2015-11-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brent Bushnell and Eric Gradman, Two Bit Circus Co-Founders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“There's sort of a bunch. This is an entire podcast just on this topic. But really what happens, a lot of girls opt out in middle school. And what happens is boys bully them. And girls are equally curious and in fact better at math than boys are at that age. And then for some reason, boys will give them a hard time. This is maybe not for you. And then they just opt out. It's not cool. It's not fun. It's not worth it. And so they stop. And so right about eighth grade is a real falling off point. And it's terrible, frankly, because people talk about diversity. And the reason that diversity is important is every single thing that's built, right? Every policy that is created, every new piece of software that's written should be built by the people who will be using it. And it's not a bunch of white males that are going to be using it, right? It's going to be women. It's going to be people with autism. It's going to be people with lots of different conditions.”
2015-11-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brent Bushnell and Eric Gradman, Two Bit Circus Co-Founders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“You think about what we need to prepare the kids today for, it's a world, frankly, where we don't actually, the jobs that they're going to be doing don't even exist yet. So how can we create a curriculum around the jobs that they're going to, that we don't know they're going to perform, right? We actually really need a curious, empowered learner who is able to grok new information and tackle it rather than just a bunch of rote memorization.”
2015-11-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brent Bushnell and Eric Gradman, Two Bit Circus Co-Founders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, I think I want to sort of gel off of your answer a little bit. The problem is that we've artificially disentangled these disciplines where, in fact, they all belong together. The modern day requires everyone to have skills in many different disciplines and to blend them together to accomplish tasks that we didn't have to do in the past. Operating a computer is a little bit of math, a little bit of science, a little bit of user experience design, a little bit of physics, and you've got to sort of have an intuition for how these things all fit together nowadays.”
2015-11-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brent Bushnell and Eric Gradman, Two Bit Circus Co-Founders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And why do you think that is? When you're trying to teach STEAM stands for these things, why do you think it's so hard? It's a crisis in our country. There's all these jobs available and we aren't, especially girls.”
2015-11-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brent Bushnell and Eric Gradman, Two Bit Circus Co-Founders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Because we have an outmoded approach to it. The school system was designed for an industrial era with old tools. And technology has over-promised and under-delivered for education for a long time, but we now have this sort of perfect storm where the tech is finally easy enough. It's priced right. The teachers, you know, the tools that the teachers can use to create the content are easy enough. We finally have sort of all the tools we need. And frankly, a willingness to question the standard approach of, I go from math class to science class to history class.”
2015-11-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brent Bushnell and Eric Gradman, Two Bit Circus Co-Founders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“We were behind a lot of countries, you know, and that is ridiculous. You know, I mean, we have, you know, we're sitting here in the middle of Silicon Valley where it would just be”
2015-11-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brent Bushnell and Eric Gradman, Two Bit Circus Co-Founders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, I mean, as America, we do a terrible job of getting kids excited about science and engineering, right? The PISA study came out, and this is where they put all the countries against each other. You know what America landed? 47th. And there's not that many countries.”
2015-11-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brent Bushnell and Eric Gradman, Two Bit Circus Co-Founders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“But wouldn't it be wonderful to learn those things in context so that you wanted to learn them? I mean, it would be so much more powerful because now you are an empowered learner and want to get to the end.”
2015-11-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brent Bushnell and Eric Gradman, Two Bit Circus Co-Founders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“You think about how ridiculous an approach we take to learning right now, and you're focused in one class for math, and then you're in one class.”
2015-11-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brent Bushnell and Eric Gradman, Two Bit Circus Co-Founders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And let's think about this idea of wonder because people don't have it that much. I mean, I know you say magical cell phone, and it's true, anything's in it. And, you know, I talk to my kids all the time because they've got their noses in it. And they're always like one more minute, one more minute, because I'm just looking at one thing. And I'm like, it never ends on this device.”
2015-11-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brent Bushnell and Eric Gradman, Two Bit Circus Co-Founders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“They can invite you, Kara, on stage to do now trivia one versus one thousand or allow, you know, because there's distributed microphones throughout the whole environment, we're going to have one half of the audience control, one paddle in a game of pong, and one half of the audience control another.”
2015-11-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brent Bushnell and Eric Gradman, Two Bit Circus Co-Founders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“To a destination page. I want to get back to Wikify, but we have a whole stage show that we run, a stage show where we're enabling the crowd To be part of the show, so imagine an entire conference center full of people sitting there with paddles and the paddles have colors. We're pointing cameras at them and they're moving their paddles back and forth and we know what color they have.”
2015-11-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brent Bushnell and Eric Gradman, Two Bit Circus Co-Founders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I believe that the technology should be hidden whenever possible. Right. I don't necessarily want to throw the technology in your face. I want to use technology to enable magical experiences. And so it's not about highlighting the technologies themselves. Now, what technologies have contributed to magical experiences these days? Well, the technology in that cell phone right there is full of magic. Sensors like you wouldn't believe, accelerometers, gyrometers, magnetometers, processors that have gotten so small, you can put them in your pocket so much computation can fit in the palm of your hand, right? Now, that cell phone also has a screen. We're not using the screen so much. We're using all the other incredible components that are in there. And more besides, cloud computing enables us to create experiences like WikiFight, where you have a whole bunch of people racing through Wikipedia online as fast as they possibly can.”
2015-11-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brent Bushnell and Eric Gradman, Two Bit Circus Co-Founders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, they removed the animals and they replaced them with twisty people. Yeah, I don't think so. And you could think of us sort of having removed the twisty people and replace it with technology.”
2015-11-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brent Bushnell and Eric Gradman, Two Bit Circus Co-Founders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So 2 bit circus is literally a high tech circus. High tech circus. And we are reimagining entertainment using modern technology.”
2015-11-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brent Bushnell and Eric Gradman, Two Bit Circus Co-Founders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I don't know. I've watched thousands of kids today go through the hoops game that we built. We let them into the, we'll call it a paddock because we have to keep the balls and the kids in. And they pick up the balls. They see the hoops, and they start throwing. That's what they're supposed to do. They do it, and they love it. You should see the looks on their faces. This is a look you don't see on the face of a kid with an iPhone pressed up to his nose.”
2015-11-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brent Bushnell and Eric Gradman, Two Bit Circus Co-Founders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, they've been on tablets and screens their whole lives. So now this is like being, oh, I see, not reminded. Yeah, they are introduced for the first time to what it's like to play.”
2015-11-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brent Bushnell and Eric Gradman, Two Bit Circus Co-Founders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It's like a live action chest, 10 on 10. And what you're trying to do is not move your controller very much while getting everybody else to move their controller. And if your team finally gets the king to move their controller, your team wins.”
2015-11-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brent Bushnell and Eric Gradman, Two Bit Circus Co-Founders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“In fact, we really, some of our favorite games are games that don't involve screens, and it's kind of a good filter for us. We have a game using Intel's Edison that is called King's, and it's a bunch of sort of baton-like controllers, and there's no screen at all. It's all audio.”
2015-11-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brent Bushnell and Eric Gradman, Two Bit Circus Co-Founders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“We have a great game at the Carnival. It's called Off Your Rocker Racing. And it's made out of physical rocking horses that we constructed in our shop. So each rocking horse is a different color and you put a kid on each rocking horse, and you tell him to rock back and forth. And on screen in front of them on a huge monitor, they see an avatar representation of their horse. And they are racing to the finish line. Very, very simple. They know what to do. There's an intuition about it. Now, there's some peculiarities, right? If you hit the side of the horse on the boost button, it lets out an expulsion of hot gas, we'll say, and propels you down the field. But they get that too. They figure it out. And it's a fun game. It holds people's attention for a long period of time, and it's simple. We love simple.”
2015-11-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brent Bushnell and Eric Gradman, Two Bit Circus Co-Founders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“To sort of run with that, right? You know, you think about Super Mario Bros. There's no test in Super Mario Bros. You either know how to get past level one or you don't. Only by the time, once you can jump on Koopas and jump over holes, you've got the skills you need to get to the next level. It sort of reveals the complexity to you at just the right time”
2015-11-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brent Bushnell and Eric Gradman, Two Bit Circus Co-Founders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Make a funny face as you went. I chose to write a poem instead. It's a whole rhyming poem that you get access to more of the poem as you play. We're always trying to come up with creative ways of introducing people to how to play the games. You want people to have an intuition for how to play the game. You don't want them to have to rely on. On rules.”
2015-11-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brent Bushnell and Eric Gradman, Two Bit Circus Co-Founders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“We made a game recently called Face Face Revolution where you're using your face as a controller, making funny faces. This is the whole game. All you have to do is make funny faces and you win. And the instructions... It's hard to develop instructions that are Both simple and”
2015-11-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brent Bushnell and Eric Gradman, Two Bit Circus Co-Founders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, and here's an example you look at the instruction manual for Pong, and it's literally three lines, deposit quarter, ball will serve automatically, avoid missing ball for high score. You look at the manual for Mortal Kombat, it's like 25 pages.”
2015-11-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brent Bushnell and Eric Gradman, Two Bit Circus Co-Founders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I really enjoy spending time with Nolan. He takes a look at the games that I develop. He says, can you make that simpler? And I do. And he says, no, maybe simpler again. And we just play this game over and over and over again until all the bad stuff, all the boring, useless, counterintuitive stuff is stripped out of the game. What were you trying to do?”
2015-11-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brent Bushnell and Eric Gradman, Two Bit Circus Co-Founders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, and still, the game mechanics are good. You find most of the best games. You get a couple of great game mechanics, and it's great no matter what the graphics are. As tech got more complicated, you know, got more sophisticated and people started adding more and more graphics, the games got really complicated, and you're all, you know what? A lot of people opted out. You think about how many buttons are on an Xbox controller. It's not for me. It's not for you. But everybody's a gamer. It just depends on what kind of game.”
2015-11-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brent Bushnell and Eric Gradman, Two Bit Circus Co-Founders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Games existed. That was the first one. Well, so Pong was their first big success game, and it was in bars and restaurants, right? It was a very social game.”
2015-11-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brent Bushnell and Eric Gradman, Two Bit Circus Co-Founders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, you know, my dad's a nerd, right? He's an engineer and an entrepreneur. And we were raised with video games and going to the amusement park conventions and all that. But when you've got a famous father, you sort of want to strike out on your own as fast as possible, which is, you know, so I went and worked in a lot of different industries, from fiber optics to DNA synthesis. And it really wasn't until I met Eric and we started collaborating. And we were just at first making interactive art and having fun. And the art sort of quickly turned into games. And as people resonated with it and liked it, I was sort of like, wow, how was I not doing this all along? Like, this is what I have grown up with. I know this for ever. And it sort of took getting validation on my own stuff before.”
2015-11-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brent Bushnell and Eric Gradman, Two Bit Circus Co-Founders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“You've really got to start somewhere they like. You can't just force it. You've got to start somewhere they like, and then you can lever that interest into the sort of goal that we all have, which is getting kids excited about actually studying science. Absolutely.”
2015-11-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brent Bushnell and Eric Gradman, Two Bit Circus Co-Founders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, I mean, we've discovered that the best way to get kids learning how to make stuff and about how to learn the required skills that they're going to need is to make stuff. Just start making stuff. So if you ask a kid, what do you want to make? Oftentimes their answer is, oh, I want to make a video game or I want to make a game or I want to make music. So we like identifying kids' latent interests, right? helping them develop those interests and in the process learn how to use the tools and technologies that are so freely available and are just going to drive their future.”
2015-11-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brent Bushnell and Eric Gradman, Two Bit Circus Co-Founders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Now that tech is really easy and anybody can do it. And so we have to sort of reframe it and get people thinking that, hey, this is actually really possible. You look at the sort of fundamental test in computer science in introduction to computer sciences. How do you print the words hello world in the 80s? It was crushing and cryptic and very hard, right? Now you can do it on your iPad in pictures. Your six-year-old could do it. And all the rest of the tools, CAD and desktop manufacturing, all that stuff has gotten so much easier. We really just need to reframe for people and say, hey, this stuff is awesome. Engineering's the new rock and roll. It's really easy and you can do this too.”
2015-11-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brent Bushnell and Eric Gradman, Two Bit Circus Co-Founders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So there's a real fundamental problem, and it's a branding problem. We do as a society an awesome job of celebrating basketball players and DJs and rock stars. But the sciences and engineering is not necessarily as overtly sexy and awesome and fun and desirable. But the reality is now, and it sort of got that way because it used to be that stuff was super hard. And so it was only this one slice of humanity that could do it.”
2015-11-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brent Bushnell and Eric Gradman, Two Bit Circus Co-Founders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Right. Think of us as sort of step zero. There's no shortage of kids that are not excited about science and engineering, right? We want, we really want to get them over that gap. If you like engineering, there is a ton of awesome stuff to do. U.S. First Robotics and Maker Fair and all these things, we want to really convert those kids that are not already excited about engineering. And so that next year they're going to be at the Exploratorium and Maker Fair and U.S. versus Robots.”
2015-11-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brent Bushnell and Eric Gradman, Two Bit Circus Co-Founders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Stuff like that. Is it similar to that? So I love the exploratory am I. I grew up up here and the exploratorium is one of my favorite places on Earth. And if you've got the exploratorium as very much science center, maker fair is very much sort of showcase of people's creations.”
2015-11-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brent Bushnell and Eric Gradman, Two Bit Circus Co-Founders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And get to get hands on with a bunch of workshops. I mean, it is a carnival format. You get to walk around, it's literally 120,000 square feet. So for the visual, that is two football fields. So it's filled with all that content. People stay on average of five or six hours. You can play a bunch of games. There's food. There's workshops. There's stage shows. We have a special laboratory stage where game designers and astronauts and whatnot are all sharing their passion for what it is that they're doing.”
2015-11-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brent Bushnell and Eric Gradman, Two Bit Circus Co-Founders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“An entire premise for two bit circus is out of home entertainment hasn't changed much since laser tag and mini golf. And you've got your friends, so it's all together on a Friday night. You would much rather go and do something brand new. And so part of our arc will be creating a whole suite of different types of interactive entertainment.”
2015-11-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brent Bushnell and Eric Gradman, Two Bit Circus Co-Founders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Like to extend that. I'd like to say that ball is a lot of fun. And technology has made fun more interesting, but at the same time, it's made it more isolating. So, our problem is that as technology has entered into the fun landscape, you now wind up with people who only walk around holding their phones up to their faces playing games. We're trying to use tech in”
2015-11-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brent Bushnell and Eric Gradman, Two Bit Circus Co-Founders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, so the entertainment is about novelty, right? Humans like Different new things, right? You know, the Martian is an amazing movie. Do I want to watch it a hundred times? No, I want to watch a different movie now. And so the same is true with entertainment. And so I love the games that you're talking about, and I'd also would like to play new games.”
2015-11-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brent Bushnell and Eric Gradman, Two Bit Circus Co-Founders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Total frenetic, you know, craz Some of the things. So you're using all the different things. So the concept is once they see the games, then they can play with them. Do you think that games have become too technological? People just used to play ball and not censor ball.”
2015-11-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brent Bushnell and Eric Gradman, Two Bit Circus Co-Founders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“We have a game called Hoops, and imagine like a volleyball net, and you've got teams on both sides, so maybe five or ten people on either side, and these circles up in the air have special sensors on them, and there's tons of balls on the ground, and people are trying to throw the balls through those hoops. There's sensors so that the software knows which direction the balls are going. And so everybody's racing for 60 seconds trying to put as many balls through the hoops as possible. Total frenetic, you know, crazy and awesome. And the tools needed to pull that off, a bunch of LEDs, a bunch of proximity sensors, some simple software, and you're often running. And so this is another one. People playing together, and then they move down the midway to where all the hands-on workshops are and get to play with some of that same stuff. Some of the things.”
2015-11-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brent Bushnell and Eric Gradman, Two Bit Circus Co-Founders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Now We could exactly. But what we want is for people to show up to this carnival and feel like they've come to an incredibly entertaining, we don't want this to be edge of attainment, right? We want this to be entertaining followed by inspiring and showing up and experiencing something like this It just opens your eyes to the possibilities.”
2015-11-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brent Bushnell and Eric Gradman, Two Bit Circus Co-Founders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It's amazingly fun. You're surrounded by flames on all sides, and we give a kid a ball, and we say, hey, kid, throw this at the target. And if the kid hits the target. Propane cannons erupt and this entire chamber is filled with flame. and the occupant leaves unharmed, but with a memory that lasts a lifetime.”
2015-11-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brent Bushnell and Eric Gradman, Two Bit Circus Co-Founders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“We like to pull back the curtain on the games and show people how it is that we made what we made because we find that kids really latch onto that. They have a good time first. And they're therefore inspired to understand how it was made.”
2015-11-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brent Bushnell and Eric Gradman, Two Bit Circus Co-Founders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“You have to learn something I'm like Well, so we really think education's a bad word. This is about inspiration learning, excitement. And so the event is one half all the high-tech games that Eric was talking about. And then the other half is a bunch of hands-on projects where folks can learn about programming electronics and fabrication in a really fun environment.”
2015-11-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brent Bushnell and Eric Gradman, Two Bit Circus Co-Founders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Everything in Silicon Valley is edge mutainment. When you go to a party, you have to learn something. I don't know if you know that. It's like you walk into a party and you just want a friggin' drink and they're like, now we'll have a lecture from. And I'm like, oh. We have a vodka. Edge mutainment again. Well,”
2015-11-18 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Brent Bushnell and Eric Gradman, Two Bit Circus Co-Founders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT