YouSaid · the spoken record

Bruce Pavitt and Jonathan Poneman

lines on the record: 73
first: 2020-06-01
most recent: 2020-06-01
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

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“It's Jonathan Ponnaman, Bruce Pevitt, co founders of his Sub Pop Records. By the way, two years ago, the label marked its 30th anniversary with a massive concert in Seattle. The mayor even dubbed it Sub Pop Day, an even Alaska Airlines got into the act. They took one of their planes and covered it with giant sub pop sticker art from the past 30 years. And thanks so much for listening to the show this week. You can subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can also write to us at hivt at npr.org. If you want to tweet at us, it's at how Ibuelbuilt This or at GuyRaz. This episode was produced by Phil Harrell and Rachel Faulkner with music composed by Remtin Arablui. Thanks also to Candace Lim, Julia Carney, Neva Grant, and Jeff Rogers. I'm Guy Ross, and you've been listening to how I built this.”
2020-06-01 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · Sub Pop Records: Bruce Pavitt and Jonathan Poneman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah. Because And what about you, Jonathan? I mean, what do you think when you think about this thing that you co-created”
2020-06-01 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · Sub Pop Records: Bruce Pavitt and Jonathan Poneman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Bruce, when you think about SubPop today, it's a Seattle brand, iconic. Starbucks and Microsoft, Subpop, that Seattle, right? No, I'm talking cliches here, but like it is pretty crazy that you wanted this label to be like Motown was to Detroit. And it did. Like you actually achieved that. Do you ever kind of reflect on that and just think that's crazy?”
2020-06-01 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · Sub Pop Records: Bruce Pavitt and Jonathan Poneman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It's amazing Bruce, when you think about all of your success starting this iconic label, and it gave you financial security and also kind of iconic status, how much do you attribute your success to how hard you worked and your intelligence and how much do you attribute to luck?”
2020-06-01 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · Sub Pop Records: Bruce Pavitt and Jonathan Poneman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Still own part. Okay. So here's a question for you, Bruce. How were you able to reconcile with Jonathan? I mean, here you are, the two of you, talking about this remarkable partnership and this traumatic breakup and split and the tension, and you're talking about it so openly and candidly, and it's so important, I think, that for people listening to hear this, right? Because partnerships are complicated. But man, to get to this point, there must have been some intense reconciliation or maybe therapy or what happened. Did you reach out to him and say, hey, you want to have lunch? What happened?”
2020-06-01 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · Sub Pop Records: Bruce Pavitt and Jonathan Poneman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“But also, I guess, like right around this time, something happened that would turn out to be fortuitous. A woman who had once been an intern, I guess, at SubHop actually came back to take on more of a major role in the company. Megan Jasper.”
2020-06-01 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · Sub Pop Records: Bruce Pavitt and Jonathan Poneman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Those two bands, if I'm not mistaken, that kind of started to turn things around for SubPop. Was that period sort of the turnaround when you started to, I mean, how did that happen? Was it just luck? Were you just lucky to get those bands come to you?”
2020-06-01 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · Sub Pop Records: Bruce Pavitt and Jonathan Poneman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Jonathan really, I think the turning point really starts in early 2001 with the shins. Released their record, O Inverted World, and to do Tushin's records, and then you do give up by the Postal Service, I think to this day, either your best selling or one of your best-selling records ever.”
2020-06-01 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · Sub Pop Records: Bruce Pavitt and Jonathan Poneman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Bruce, you were kind of on the sidelines and you were out of the picture, and were you completely disengaged or were you kind of following the tumult at Sub Pop from a distance? Because this was a rough period. I mean, I think really in the late 90s, SubPop was hanging by a thread, if I'm not mistaken. It was close to collapsing.”
2020-06-01 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · Sub Pop Records: Bruce Pavitt and Jonathan Poneman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I want to ask you about 1997 because you almost went under, I think Subhop almost collapsed just a few years after the deal with Warner, because by this point Bruce had left, and you're running it now. And I think there was just a horrible period. Your dad passed away and all this crazy stuff's going on. What was going on that almost caused Subpop to collapse?”
2020-06-01 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · Sub Pop Records: Bruce Pavitt and Jonathan Poneman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“This is an important point because. We learn about ourselves and we figure out how to do it better next time, which is super important. Like, I don't think enough business leaders spend the time to reflect on the bad decisions they made because that's what makes you a better leader, right? And that's what enabled you, Jonathan, to go on and lead SubPop to greater heights. But what was the decision, a few decisions that you made that in hindsight were bad decisions?”
2020-06-01 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · Sub Pop Records: Bruce Pavitt and Jonathan Poneman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And Jonathan, do you think that narrative sounds right, that Bruce wanted to kind of keep it small, but you had bigger ambitions, and that's what led to tension?”
2020-06-01 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · Sub Pop Records: Bruce Pavitt and Jonathan Poneman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Alright, now I wanted to get into some details here. This is important because obviously the two of you have reconciled and you're talking now, but you were mad. You stopped talking to each other for seven years, so tell me why.”
2020-06-01 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · Sub Pop Records: Bruce Pavitt and Jonathan Poneman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“You leave SubPop. Now, here is the story that I have heard and I want to hear it from both of you individually. More or less, Bruce, you wanted to keep SubPop kind of small and just focused on Seattle bands and Jonathan, you really wanted to go big. And the two of you guys started. There was a lot of tension between the two of you. And you basically became estranged for seven years, which is nuts because you're here talking to me now. Bruce, can you first kind of address that story?”
2020-06-01 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · Sub Pop Records: Bruce Pavitt and Jonathan Poneman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Here's where the story takes another turn, which is you do this deal with Warner Brothers. Seattle, the Seattle scene is just blowing up. There's all this national attention. You guys are now kind of under pressure to sign more acts because that's one of the presumably one of the deals with Warner Brothers. They want you guys to bring in more talent under the sub-pop label. And in 96, 1996, Bruce...”
2020-06-01 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · Sub Pop Records: Bruce Pavitt and Jonathan Poneman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“To why the deal with Warner, they acquired almost 50%, 49% of your business for $20 million. Was it an opportunity? Because if I'm you, I would take that deal. I worked really hard It's a chance to cash out and to get some financial security. Was that what you were thinking?”
2020-06-01 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · Sub Pop Records: Bruce Pavitt and Jonathan Poneman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“1994, I guess you have an opportunity to do a joint venture with Warner Brothers. It's a $20 million deal. Enter into an agreement with Warner Brothers. Can you explain 1 Jonathan? Can you explain the thinking behind it? Was this a chance for you guys that you'd worked really hard? Was there a chance to take some money off the table at that point?”
2020-06-01 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · Sub Pop Records: Bruce Pavitt and Jonathan Poneman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I mean, you became like Starbucks or Microsoft, an iconic Seattle brand. Already by ninety three, ninety four, you know, hipster parents were putting sub pop shirts on their kids, right? Like sub pop that black and white logo, that was iconic. I mean, you were a big international brand.”
2020-06-01 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · Sub Pop Records: Bruce Pavitt and Jonathan Poneman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Relate to Did you, I mean, as Seattle, as like the national media kind of descended on Seattle in the early to mid-90s, I don't know, what would you think about that? I mean, this is like a sleepy town in the 70s and 80s, and John Peel had talked about this authentic regional sound, and all of a sudden, like, Seattle is the music capital of the world.”
2020-06-01 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · Sub Pop Records: Bruce Pavitt and Jonathan Poneman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I wonder, like, even in that movie Singles, there's a character played by Matt Dillon, and he's in a band, I think they're called Citizen Dick. I think that's what the name of the band is. And Matt Dillon is like a caricature of a guy in a band in Seattle who's like denigrating all the other bands that become successful, calling them sellouts and stuff like that. Was that real? Was that a real feeling? Were you guys, were there people in your scene who were like, oh yeah, Sound Garden and Nirvana and Pearl Gem, there's sellouts?”
2020-06-01 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · Sub Pop Records: Bruce Pavitt and Jonathan Poneman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, I've been to the sub shop in the airport. It's awesome. But I wonder, these major labels were making a lot of money off of these bands. And at this point, you know, 90, 91, 92, I can't imagine Subop was making the whole lot of money”
2020-06-01 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · Sub Pop Records: Bruce Pavitt and Jonathan Poneman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“You feel kind of like left behind as all of a sudden this became huge, like so fast? Did you kind of feel like wait a minute, we were the little blabel that actually was here from the beginning and now we're left behind.”
2020-06-01 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · Sub Pop Records: Bruce Pavitt and Jonathan Poneman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Nirvana, of course, in 1991, Releases Never Mind, and that just changes everything. I remember that record came on my senior year of high school. It was unlike anything that had come out before it. And subsequently, like all of these things begin to happen. You've got in the fall of'92 the movie singles, you've got Pearl Jams 10 Sound Gardens, Bad Motorfinger, Alice and Shains. I mean all of these bands that came to be associated with this term, with this genre grunge. And none of those bands were, I believe, were on the sub pop label, even though sub-pop was so associated with that word and with that sound. And did you guys feel, Bruce, first to you, that a part of”
2020-06-01 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · Sub Pop Records: Bruce Pavitt and Jonathan Poneman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“We come back in just a moment, life after Nirvana, and how Bruce and Jonathan's relationship started to fall apart. Stay with us, I'm Guy Ros, and you're listening to how I built this from NPR. Hey, welcome back to How I Built This from NPR. So it's the end of 1990, and for Subhop, history is basically repeating itself. Just like in 1988 with Green River, the label's biggest band has just walked out on them. Nirvana has signed with another label. And to make matters worse, Jonathan and Bruce can already sense that the band is about to blow up. Did you feel Bruce? Like, it sounds like in some ways, I think justifiable, you felt a little betrayed because you put all this energy behind this band and a lot of hope into this band and then, you know, and it's complicated because they probably got an amazing.”
2020-06-01 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · Sub Pop Records: Bruce Pavitt and Jonathan Poneman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“This is sensitive, a sensitive topic because, of course, Nirvana is a legendary band and they changed rock history, and I'm sure this is painful even to recall and recount this story. But I do want to ask you about this. When you found out, Bruce, that Nirvana was shopping around looking for a label to sign them. Did you feel hurt? Did you feel betrayed? Did you feel like they were selling out? How do you remember feeling?”
2020-06-01 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · Sub Pop Records: Bruce Pavitt and Jonathan Poneman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Alright, bleach does pretty well. But from what I understand, they went off after that and signed a deal with Geffen. They went and they left you guys and went with Geffen. Why? What happened?”
2020-06-01 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · Sub Pop Records: Bruce Pavitt and Jonathan Poneman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So this gets some attention, a little bit of attention, but Nirvana is still far from being a household name, and Kurt Cobain is far, far from being a household name. But it's clear that there's some legs to this band. And by the way, I'm just curious, did either of you guys think early on in 1988 or 89 that Nirvana was going to be one of the most influential bands in American rock history? Did that ever cross your mind? I can't imagine it would. Otherwise, you'd be a seer. But any of you have an inclination that maybe they might be?”
2020-06-01 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · Sub Pop Records: Bruce Pavitt and Jonathan Poneman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“All right, so I think in the summer of'89 you released Nirvana's debut album Bleach. And did it blow up? Because I don't remember, did it all of a sudden, was it just this huge thing or not really, not much?”
2020-06-01 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · Sub Pop Records: Bruce Pavitt and Jonathan Poneman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And by the way, just we should just point out some people may not remember John Peel, but probably the most influential DJ of the 20th century, there's never been anybody like him since”
2020-06-01 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · Sub Pop Records: Bruce Pavitt and Jonathan Poneman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, a couple of months before you release Nirvana's debut album, which is Bleach, which we'll talk about in a minute, I read that it was kind of hard, I guess, at the time, to get mainstream attention from the US music press, like Rolling Stone and Spin, and that you actually decided to go to the British magazines, like Melody Maker and NME, and basically kind of pitch them stories and just bypass the US music press entirely. Is that true?”
2020-06-01 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · Sub Pop Records: Bruce Pavitt and Jonathan Poneman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Okay, so you sign them, but then they're saying they want an advance on the next record and they presumably they're asking for a significant amount of money on the advance?”
2020-06-01 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · Sub Pop Records: Bruce Pavitt and Jonathan Poneman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And is that was that like a five record deal? Were there terms? I mean, it sounds like it was just really interesting. One record.”
2020-06-01 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · Sub Pop Records: Bruce Pavitt and Jonathan Poneman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I want to get some clarity on this for a sec. Bruce, so what do you remember about? So, why was he Kristova Vase was banging on your window demanding a record contract? Why? Can you explain what was going on?”
2020-06-01 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · Sub Pop Records: Bruce Pavitt and Jonathan Poneman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“How did you convince Nirvana to work with you? Because Chris Novacelech sounds like he was suspicious and skeptical at the beginning. But what? They just went along. Kurt was like, yeah, I want to work with SubPop. Do you know how that happened? Jon”
2020-06-01 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · Sub Pop Records: Bruce Pavitt and Jonathan Poneman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, I'm assuming they let you know when they were coming back to play live. And the two of you went, and Bruce, what was your impression of them when you finally see Nirvana play live?”
2020-06-01 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · Sub Pop Records: Bruce Pavitt and Jonathan Poneman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“All right, so you meet Kurt and Chris Nova Selich. He comes in, and how does the conversation go with you guys? Are you like, hey, so what do you think? Do you want to work with us? Was it that simple”
2020-06-01 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · Sub Pop Records: Bruce Pavitt and Jonathan Poneman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Bruce was the guy who started the zine in Olympia, and he was a show on the college radio station. So he was unknown. People were like, Bruce Pavit, that guy's a legend. Yeah.”
2020-06-01 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · Sub Pop Records: Bruce Pavitt and Jonathan Poneman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Alright, so you're blown away. You meet him at this cafe. And what's he like? Is he quiet? Was he shy? Was he introverted?”
2020-06-01 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · Sub Pop Records: Bruce Pavitt and Jonathan Poneman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Alright, so at some point you get this demo from a band named Nirvana. I guess this is in maybe 1988. What's the story? How did you come across that demo? How did it come across your desk?”
2020-06-01 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · Sub Pop Records: Bruce Pavitt and Jonathan Poneman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Bruce, who were your customers in 1988? I mean, this music was not yet in mainstream or big, so I can't imagine you had a huge number of potential customers at that point, right?”
2020-06-01 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · Sub Pop Records: Bruce Pavitt and Jonathan Poneman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“But you joke, I know, but you say you apologize, but would that word come back to haunt you? I mean, did you come to kind of feel like that word came to mean something that you didn't necessarily intend it to mean? Because now when you say the word grunge, like if I went up to the former members of Nirvana and I said, I love the grunge sound, like they would kind of cringe a little bit, don't you think?”
2020-06-01 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · Sub Pop Records: Bruce Pavitt and Jonathan Poneman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I'm wondering, because I want to get to Nirvana in a bit, obviously. We're going to ask a lot about that, but I'm wondering, how was your financial situation at the beginning? I mean, you had some money, but you had to then sell records and make a go of it, and then your main band is like breaks up. So how close were you guys to collapsing at the beginning”
2020-06-01 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · Sub Pop Records: Bruce Pavitt and Jonathan Poneman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“We come back in just a moment. How Bruce and Jonathan recover after Green River breaks up and how they use a generic contract and a bit of whiteout to sign one of the biggest bands in rock and roll history. Stay with us, I'm Guy Raz, and you're listening to How I Built This from NPR. Hey, welcome back to How I Built This from NPR. I'm Guy Raz. So it's the spring of 1988 and Bruce Pavitt and Jonathan Poneman have officially launched their record label sub pop in Seattle. But they've also lost their most important band, Green River.”
2020-06-01 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · Sub Pop Records: Bruce Pavitt and Jonathan Poneman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Okay, so you've got this label going, and I think that you then released an album called Rehabdal by Green River, which I think was going to be your first really big record, if I'm not mistaken.”
2020-06-01 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · Sub Pop Records: Bruce Pavitt and Jonathan Poneman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Who was doing the business side of SubPop in the early days? Because most co founders I interviewed one kind of does operations and one does strategy or more the creative side. How did you guys divide things up? Bruce, what do you remember about what you did and what Jonathan did in the early days?”
2020-06-01 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · Sub Pop Records: Bruce Pavitt and Jonathan Poneman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And were you, I mean, I'm curious about the business side of this, right? Because if today you're starting a business, like a lot of founders I have on the show, I'll say, okay, well, how did you do an LLC? Did you go to the business licensing office in your city? How did you split up the equity? Bruce, did you guys do all this stuff? Did you sit down and go through the nuts and bolts of the business? Because this is rock and roll. Rock and roll doesn't do business, but this is also a business.”
2020-06-01 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · Sub Pop Records: Bruce Pavitt and Jonathan Poneman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“For a business plan And Bruce, what do you remember about this? Jonathan's like, hey, I've got some cash and you've got a label, and what do you think? How do you remember the story?”
2020-06-01 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · Sub Pop Records: Bruce Pavitt and Jonathan Poneman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, okay, so I guess a couple of things are starting to converge, just as 86 to 87, I guess there's Green River, and there's Soundgarden. And Bruce, you're starting to release their music. And meanwhile, as I understand it, Jonathan, you've kind of been circling around Soundgarden, like wanting to be involved with them somehow, like maybe as their manager or like on a recording project. But then you end up teaming up with Bruce to build SubPop. How did that happen?”
2020-06-01 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · Sub Pop Records: Bruce Pavitt and Jonathan Poneman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And so this is like, I guess like 87 ish and like Sound Garden is a, which is totally amazing Soundgarden is a small little band in Seattle at this time. Kinthile is the lead guitarist. And you guys released, I think their first single in like July of 87 under the sub-hop label. And by the way, did it feel like a new sound to you guys? Bruce, I mean, did that music in 1987 feel like it was different than the other music that existed in America at the time?”
2020-06-01 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · Sub Pop Records: Bruce Pavitt and Jonathan Poneman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And Bruce Green River was a local band in Seattle, and they would eventually figure really prominently in the whole grunch scene. But at the time, did you just go up to them and say, hey, I want to record your first album? Or were they kind of looking for a way to record it? And you said, yeah, I can do it. I can put it on my label.”
2020-06-01 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · Sub Pop Records: Bruce Pavitt and Jonathan Poneman · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT