YouSaid · the spoken record

Carol Anderson

lines on the record: 40
first: 2021-07-06
most recent: 2021-07-06
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“Yes, I am because the lies continue to be stoked and the states like Texas are passing laws that say that you don't need to have a license, you don't need to have any training to be able to buy a gun. So it's creating a space where that is stoked in fear, that is stoked in anger, that is stoked in violence. So I do worry.”
2021-07-06 · Intelligence Squared · Race and Guns in a Divided America, with Carol Anderson and Mark Mardell · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Absolutely, absolutely, that the assault on the capital, when you think about the ways that it was defined, it was those people in Philadelphia, those people in Detroit, those people in Milwaukee, those people in Atlanta, defining these cities, these cities that have sizable black populations, that the votes coming out of these cities are illegitimate. And if you don't count those votes from those cities, then Donald Trump wins.”
2021-07-06 · Intelligence Squared · Race and Guns in a Divided America, with Carol Anderson and Mark Mardell · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Beautifully, particularly into the narrative of white rage, which was my first public facing book, because you had massive voter turnout in the 2020 election and in the 2020-2021 runoff here in Georgia for the Senate that flipped the Senate. So that massive turnout removed Donald Trump from the presidency and it flipped the Senate. And that response of black people and indigenous people and Asian American Pacific Islanders voting overwhelmingly to have a democratic government. The response was we've got to have a wave of policies to remove those people from having that kind of power. We've got to undercut their ability”
2021-07-06 · Intelligence Squared · Race and Guns in a Divided America, with Carol Anderson and Mark Mardell · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Then talk about this great democracy while systematically denying rights to the vast majority of American citizens. And so this is why there are these battles about voting rights right now, because they know that they will be voted out by the vast majority of people who don't want that vision that they are propagating and cloaking it in the narrative of patriotism, of democracy, and of America. I mean, look at how they came out against the January 6th Commission. They don't want that investigated, where you had basically a mob of whites attack the U.S. Capitol to overturn an election.”
2021-07-06 · Intelligence Squared · Race and Guns in a Divided America, with Carol Anderson and Mark Mardell · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And I think that part of what we're seeing is that divisiveness is that you're seeing the Republican Party shrink because it is so toxic. It is so virulent in terms of everything that it's against. And this is also why we're seeing these massive voter suppression laws put in place by the Republicans because it is the aura, the sense that this is a equal divide. It's not an equal divide. In fact, it is a smaller group fighting tooth and nail to hold on, to power, to hold on to a white supremacist vision of an America where you have a vast rightless labor pool and all of those resources flow up to a smaller strata of whites who”
2021-07-06 · Intelligence Squared · Race and Guns in a Divided America, with Carol Anderson and Mark Mardell · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Exactly, exactly. And then you have the takeover of the NRA in nineteen seventy seven by this politicized right wing. It was basically the coup in Cincinnati at their Cincinnati convention. And this politicized right wing took over the NRA and emphasized the individual right to bear arms as the foundational principle of American citizenship and then began putting lots of money and power behind politicians who were going to be anti gun safety laws, who were going to block gun safety laws.”
2021-07-06 · Intelligence Squared · Race and Guns in a Divided America, with Carol Anderson and Mark Mardell · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So the NRA, actually the NRA began in eighteen seventy one, founded by Union soldiers, so founded by soldiers who fought for the United States of America because they were concerned about the lack of marksmanship that they had witnessed on the battlefield. So they thought folks need to be trained on how to shoot. And so for so long the NRA was really about a sporting club, a hunting club, about marksmanship. You start seeing that political evolution in the sixties like when I start detailing the work to disarm the black panthers with the Mulford Act in California in 1967.”
2021-07-06 · Intelligence Squared · Race and Guns in a Divided America, with Carol Anderson and Mark Mardell · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yes, it does. And I'm thankful for that because I think one of the things is that many Americans had deluded themselves after Barack Obama's election that the United States had crossed the racial rubicon, you know, that we have overcome. We are free. comes the election of Donald Trump, who rode into power on a wave of racism and white supremacy, birtharism, build the wall, Mexicans are rapists and criminals, the Muslim band just, and seeing the vitriol, the racist vitriol that had just like a Pandora's box erupted in the United States, like at Charlottesville, where you have Jews will not replace us with a tiki torch. That had many Americans. Going, what just happened here? You know, the America that I thought that I knew that elected Barack Obama, how could this happen? And so you see this search, this hunt for...”
2021-07-06 · Intelligence Squared · Race and Guns in a Divided America, with Carol Anderson and Mark Mardell · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Then is what leads to policies about makers and takers, that the only people who deserve the resources of this nation are the ones who built it, therefore only white men deserve the resources of this nation. That's what a bad history does. And so to dismantle anti-blackness, you have to have good history.”
2021-07-06 · Intelligence Squared · Race and Guns in a Divided America, with Carol Anderson and Mark Mardell · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Jesse has. And this is why there are these current battles over the sixteen nineteen project, which I'm a part of, and over the critical race theory. While you're seeing these laws passed in these states saying you cannot teach this because what we understand is that the way to first begin to dismantle this is with the truth, is with actual history so that people are operating from a frame of knowledge about how we got here. I think about it in terms of the Rick Santorum School of History, where he said, well, you know, Europeans came to this empty land and we built it. A, the United States, this land was not empty. There were indigenous people here. And we built it means that only white men built this nation.”
2021-07-06 · Intelligence Squared · Race and Guns in a Divided America, with Carol Anderson and Mark Mardell · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And so we need to understand the power of anti-blackness that then says we are willing to be left vulnerable in our churches at the grocery store where we work, where we entertain ourselves at the movie theater so that we're not left defenseless.”
2021-07-06 · Intelligence Squared · Race and Guns in a Divided America, with Carol Anderson and Mark Mardell · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“We will be left defenseless if we don't have our guns. Jonathan Metzel wrote a book called Dying for Whiteness, and one of the things that he did was he looked at those in Missouri, whites in Missouri who had suffered gun violence in their families, and during their sessions, you know, they talked about gun safety laws and they went, no, we can't do that, you know, because all of those people from St. Louis will come down here and try to take our stuff. We will be left defenseless. And when I heard that, I thought, oh my God, I'm hearing Patrick Henry and George Mason talking about we will be left defenseless unless we can control this militia, unless we have the guns to keep these black people down. And that language of being left defenseless courses through these debates on gun safety laws.”
2021-07-06 · Intelligence Squared · Race and Guns in a Divided America, with Carol Anderson and Mark Mardell · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And so I really believe that what we need to do is to remove the Second Amendment from its venerated status and treat it the way that we treat the Three Fifths Clause as something that was born out of a bribe to the slaveholders to deny black people their humanity. And then we need to have a real conversation, a real evidence-based conversation about the role of guns in American society. And we need to dismantle anti-Blackness. That is key. I believe that one of the reasons why we don't see good movement after all of these mass shootings, good movement on gun safety laws, is because of this anti-blackness. So how many times have we heard”
2021-07-06 · Intelligence Squared · Race and Guns in a Divided America, with Carol Anderson and Mark Mardell · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And again, that's that narrative and begin to think about the imbalance here because what we're talking about, you know, I've heard about, yeah, but what about Chicago, that black on black crime? We've got two things happening there. 80%, over 80% of blacks are killed by black people. Over 80% of whites are killed by white people. But we don't hear about white on white crime. We don't hear about that as a kind of violent pathology. And the other component of that is what we're talking about is the state violence that rains down on black people. We're not talking about the individual violence. We're talking about state violence and the lack of accountability for that state violence.”
2021-07-06 · Intelligence Squared · Race and Guns in a Divided America, with Carol Anderson and Mark Mardell · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And juxtapose that to 12 year old Tamir Rice, who was playing alone in a park by himself with a toy gun. Now granted the orange chip wasn't on the gun that says, hey, I'm a toy, but Ohio is an open carry state. And it says as long as you're not threatening anyone, you're fine. And so he's in a park by himself. He's not threatening anyone. The police roll up and within two seconds they shoot him down, saying he was dangerous. He was a threat. And so it's looking at the language of the police and the actions of the police about who they fear, who they shoot, who they define as dangerous, they say as being the ones that threaten their lives. That's what Black Lives Matter is dealing with.”
2021-07-06 · Intelligence Squared · Race and Guns in a Divided America, with Carol Anderson and Mark Mardell · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Right, the glove compartment and see a gun there and go whoa. So he's alerting him, but I'm reaching for my ideas you have requested. And the police officer just started shooting saying, you know, I was afraid. I was afraid. I was afraid. That fear is also what I talk about with Kyle Rittenhouse, who was the young white teenager, 17-year-old, who crossed state lines with an illegally obtained AR fifteen to join part of a policing group because there was a protest in Kenosha, Wisconsin because of a black man had been shot in the back seven times by police in front of his children because the police were afraid. Rittenhouse goes to Kenosha, Wisconsin, the police welcome him. The seventeen year old with this AR fifteen”
2021-07-06 · Intelligence Squared · Race and Guns in a Divided America, with Carol Anderson and Mark Mardell · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I think that the structure of policing, that structure of anti blackness that defines black people as criminal, that defines them as a threat is that that has been infused in policing. I mean, so that's why I start the book with Filando Castile, who was the black man in Minnesota who was pulled over by the police. And when the police officer asked to see his ID, Flando Castile following National Rifle Association guidelines says, officer, I just want you to know that I have a license to carry weapon with me. I am reaching for my ID as you have requested because he didn't want to have the police officer see him open up the”
2021-07-06 · Intelligence Squared · Race and Guns in a Divided America, with Carol Anderson and Mark Mardell · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And criminal. And remember at Selma, when we had the cataclysm on the Edmund Pettis Bridge, where the Alabama State Patrol, the state police, and Jim Clark's forces just mowed down all of those nonviolent black protesters. And the cameras are rolling. And Andrew Young talked about how there were some black folks who were like, I'm going to get my gun. I'm tired of this. I'm going to get my gun. And he said, we had to talk them down. We had to say, okay, what kind of gun do you have? Okay, do you know what they have? Do you see the shotguns? Okay. And how many do you have? Okay. Do you know how many guns they have? And it was a way of being able to explain the disparity in the use of violence in order to get free.”
2021-07-06 · Intelligence Squared · Race and Guns in a Divided America, with Carol Anderson and Mark Mardell · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“The civil rights movement was predicated on a non-violent strategy, and that dealt with the kind of anti blackness running through the society that defined black people as dangerous as violent, as inherently criminal, as a threat. And so it was to dismantle that narrative, to say, look at these middle class black folk, because if you notice, they're always in their Sunday best, these middle-class black folk who are getting beaten up by thugs for no other reason than they are trying to ride a bus, than they are trying to sit at a lunch counter and eat a sandwich. So these simple basic things were part of the narrative to overcome that language about blacks being inherently violent.”
2021-07-06 · Intelligence Squared · Race and Guns in a Divided America, with Carol Anderson and Mark Mardell · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“You know, and then you think about it, the march, the insurrection in 1811 in Louisiana, that was an armed insurrection. The Stono Rebellion was an armed insurrection. Denmark VC, Gabriel's revolt. One of the things that we have to be cognizant of is that in the U.S., African Americans are not the majority. And so the thing about an armed insurrection is the depth of state violence and power that is able to come down and just eviscerate, obliterate that kind of revolt. And this is what we saw happen with Gabriel's revolt. This is what we saw happen in 1811. This is what we saw happen with Denmark VC. This is why this is part of the reason why.”
2021-07-06 · Intelligence Squared · Race and Guns in a Divided America, with Carol Anderson and Mark Mardell · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Two additional white men are killed. That sends the signal to the governor that this is a broad insurgency with a plot to kill all of the white people. And so he is able to call in the U.S. Army and they bring machine guns that have been used in France during the war and begin the slaughter of black people. They move from what cane break where black people were hiding in that dense vegetation to canebrake, just mowing people down up to 800 or so were killed in this way in Elaine, Arkansas, because black people dared to fight for their right to be paid for their labor, and they because they were armed and were fighting in the right for self defense. And the message was, you don't have those rights.”
2021-07-06 · Intelligence Squared · Race and Guns in a Divided America, with Carol Anderson and Mark Mardell · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Word got back to the town that blacks had killed whites, and the word came down that this is a black insurgency. These are Bolsheviks, because this is right after the First World War. You know, these are Bolsheviks, and they're out here to kill all of the whites. And so the mob descended on that black community and began the slaughter. As black people are defending themselves against this mob violence,”
2021-07-06 · Intelligence Squared · Race and Guns in a Divided America, with Carol Anderson and Mark Mardell · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yes, if so, that's why I talk about, for instance, Elaine, Arkansas. In Elaine, Arkansas here you have black sharecroppers who were working an entire year and not getting paid for their labor. And so they decided to organize a union, to join a labor union in order to be able to gain the kind of leverage that they needed in order to get paid for their work. And they said, you know, the whites find out they will kill us. And so they had centuries put outside the church where they were organizing and meeting. But whites had heard about it. The white landowners had heard about it and sent a scouting party up to break up and to shoot up that meeting. The sentries saw the car up there. There was an exchange of gunfire, and a white man was killed, and another white man was wounded.”
2021-07-06 · Intelligence Squared · Race and Guns in a Divided America, with Carol Anderson and Mark Mardell · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Of black people's rights. And so as African Americans are asserting, we have the right to bear arms via the Second Amendment. That Second Amendment really was saying you do not have those rights.”
2021-07-06 · Intelligence Squared · Race and Guns in a Divided America, with Carol Anderson and Mark Mardell · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And so, what you see happening here is that we understand you had the black codes that were coming right out of the Civil War where President Johnson had basically provided amnesty to the Confederate leaders who then regained control of their states and started passing legislation to reinstall slavery by another name. And one of those things was the labor codes. But the other piece was the disarmament of black people, saying that they cannot, they do not have the right to bear arms. And you had African Americans asserting we have Second Amendment rights. We have the right to bear arms. And as you see in the book, I say, no, because what the Second Amendment was really about was the devaluation and the debate.”
2021-07-06 · Intelligence Squared · Race and Guns in a Divided America, with Carol Anderson and Mark Mardell · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yes, I mean, Grant angst and anguish about the slaughter was just so palpable. I mean, you saw that. I mean, this was a man, a key general in the Civil War who fought to end slavery, who fought to keep the Union together, and knew that enfranchising and recognizing the citizenship of the emancipated people was key to this new democracy that the US was trying to build. And so to have the Supreme Court knock the legs out from under that was just devastating for President Grant.”
2021-07-06 · Intelligence Squared · Race and Guns in a Divided America, with Carol Anderson and Mark Mardell · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“The militia was running out. The black militia men were running out, told to surrender. Those who had surrendered were then executed. You had the Louisiana, which was just in the middle of a major political battle, was not about to prosecute these men for murder. So the federal government stepped in and charged them with violating the third enforcement act, which was the anti white domestic terrorism act. And that case went all the way up to the US Supreme Court, and the US Supreme Court ruled in the Crookshank decision that the third and fourthman act only applied against state actors, not against private actors. And so, therefore, the men who had attacked this black militia and slaughtered them, they could not be held on a federal charge, and that just gave Cart blame.”
2021-07-06 · Intelligence Squared · Race and Guns in a Divided America, with Carol Anderson and Mark Mardell · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Oh absolutely. And to me, that resonates so much when we think about the insurrection that we had here on january sixth at the US Capitol. Because here there was an election in Louisiana. Whites did not like the result of that election. And so they were charging storming to the courthouse building in Colfax, Louisiana to overthrow that government and install their own leaders. And you had the black militia was called out in order to protect the results of that election, to protect democracy. And the white mob, paramilitary group, the Ku Klux Klan, they attacked this militia and overwhelmed them and slaughtered them, slaughtered them. They set the courthouse on fire.”
2021-07-06 · Intelligence Squared · Race and Guns in a Divided America, with Carol Anderson and Mark Mardell · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“They cannot have weapons because these are the articles of liberation. And it's that push that really sends a powerful signal about the creation of this nation, the creation of what freedom means to people and how people are willing to die for it.”
2021-07-06 · Intelligence Squared · Race and Guns in a Divided America, with Carol Anderson and Mark Mardell · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yes, right and that and that's and so what you get is this kind of sense of well why did they take this? Why did they take this? And it's then the historians who came in and challenged that narrative in the 70s and in the 80s. They started going through the documents, going through the slave narratives. And you started seeing this kind of resistance, the revolts that were just sending shockwaves through that white community because they were like, these people will kill us. They want to be free. Their quest to be free means that they're willing to die for this freedom. And we've got to stop this. And that's why you see the rise of the slave patrols, the rise of the militias, the rise of these slave codes that say they cannot have literacy. They cannot”
2021-07-06 · Intelligence Squared · Race and Guns in a Divided America, with Carol Anderson and Mark Mardell · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yes, and see, this is part of when I was growing up, the history that I was taught was that the enslaved did not fight back, that they just accepted their subjugation, and that Lincoln freed the slaves. And so when that's the narrative of subjugation”
2021-07-06 · Intelligence Squared · Race and Guns in a Divided America, with Carol Anderson and Mark Mardell · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, if that's what they think, then they need to rethink that because part of what is so incredible about the United States is that you had in the midst of the slavery this aspirational.”
2021-07-06 · Intelligence Squared · Race and Guns in a Divided America, with Carol Anderson and Mark Mardell · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“In the United States, in its founding, in its institutions, in its laws, if we don't have that understanding, then where we are right now makes no sense”
2021-07-06 · Intelligence Squared · Race and Guns in a Divided America, with Carol Anderson and Mark Mardell · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It absolutely is. And so, what you're seeing is this battle over history, this battle over telling the truth, looking at the documents, looking at what these folks were dealing with at the time and the choices that they made and the choices that they did not make. And what are the implications of that? What they want in this battle over, you know, don't teach things that make white students uncomfortable. Don't teach things that are divisive. Remember, we had a civil war over slavery. If we cannot talk about slavery, then we cannot talk about the civil war where you had a kill rate of like 600,000 killed in this war. And not to mention the wounded. And it's that kind of erasure, that kind of elusion over the role that racism played.”
2021-07-06 · Intelligence Squared · Race and Guns in a Divided America, with Carol Anderson and Mark Mardell · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“the Atlantic slave trade, those were all bribes to the south in order to sign on to the Constitution. The Second Amendment is in that same vein”
2021-07-06 · Intelligence Squared · Race and Guns in a Divided America, with Carol Anderson and Mark Mardell · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yes. And I use that because right now in America the Second Amendment has taken on this kind of hallowed stature as this penultimate definition of citizenship and Americanness. But once we understand that it was part of just like the Three-Fifths Clause in the US Constitution, where the South was banging on about how if we don't get protection for slavery, we're out of here. You can have your own United States, and it was a way to basically hold the idea of the United States hostage. And so the Three Fist Clause created additional representation for the South. The fugitive slave clause said that they could go anywhere that they wanted to hunt down enslave people who were running to freedom. And the 20-year extension of”
2021-07-06 · Intelligence Squared · Race and Guns in a Divided America, with Carol Anderson and Mark Mardell · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, the militia were there as well to fight against the indigenous people. So you had the northern militia that was dealing with the indigenous people, the southern militia dealing with slave revolts as well as with the indigenous people. And when it came to fighting the British, I mean, that is part of this incredible narrative, this myth in American history, because the militia weren't reliable. Sometimes they'd show up. Sometimes they wouldn't. Sometimes they'd fight. Sometimes they were just like, I'm out of here. They stop running. Right. It drove George Washington crazy. And that is why you have Madison putting control of the militia under the federal government because it was so unreliable, thinking that a federal structure would create some sense of coherence and some Sense of organization and responsibility in this militia.”
2021-07-06 · Intelligence Squared · Race and Guns in a Divided America, with Carol Anderson and Mark Mardell · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yes, yes, Ami, you saw it at the Virginia Ratification Convention dealing with the Constitution where you have Patrick Henry and George Mason going toe to toe with James Madison who had drafted the Constitution of the United States and had put the militia, the control of the militia under the federal government, and Patrick Henry and George Mason are absolutely livid, apoplectic about this because they're like, You cannot trust the federal government. It has people from like Pennsylvania and Massachusetts. The North detest slavery. If there's a slavery volt here, we cannot count on them to send the militia down to help us. We will be left defenseless.”
2021-07-06 · Intelligence Squared · Race and Guns in a Divided America, with Carol Anderson and Mark Mardell · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Because I went back and looked at the history going all the way back to the 17th century and seeing how the fear of black people, the fear of the enslaved and the fear of free blacks was driving the architecture of the militia, driving the architecture of slave patrol laws, driving the architecture of the creation of slave codes, of disarmament that the enslaved could not bear arms and that free blacks should not be able to have arms. And then seeing how this fear of black people eddied through to the creation of the Second Amendment, which was this fight over who would control the militia? And the militia was there, particularly in the South, to quell slave revolts. And so sitting in the middle of the Bill of Rights, we have this right to control black people, this right to deny people.”
2021-07-06 · Intelligence Squared · Race and Guns in a Divided America, with Carol Anderson and Mark Mardell · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I'm scared of heights. Hello podcast listeners. I'm Connor and welcome to this week's episode of Intelligence Squared. Today we're joined by Carol Anderson. She's a historian and professor of African American studies at Emory University, and she spoke to Mark Mardell all about how the Second Amendment and the right to bear arms has meant different things if you are black or white. They trace back the roots of the Second Amendment in the seventeenth century when it was encoded into law and the enslaved were forbidden from carrying a firearm right up to today and the culture of gun ownership in America. It's a really fascinating conversation and touches on a lot of the big news stories such as the teaching of critical race theory which have sprung up in recent days and we hope you enjoy it. And if you do enjoy it you can find a link for the book in the podcast description. But now let's go to the episode.”
2021-07-06 · Intelligence Squared · Race and Guns in a Divided America, with Carol Anderson and Mark Mardell · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source