YouSaid · the spoken record

Christian Kleinerman

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2023-09-22
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2023-09-22
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  1. “He is also such a clear thinker. He has that commonality with Satya. He becomes a clarifying force. Oftentimes, if you just picturing yourself, telling Frank about a problem and a couple of options, just in the formulation, it becomes very obvious that you don't even need to get his opinion because you know where he's going to stand. So that type of clarity that he has simplifies decision making, accelerates decision making. He's also an amazing, amazing leader.”

    2023-09-22 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Are Foundation Models Becoming Commoditised? Do OpenAI and Anthropic of the World Have a Sustaining Moat? Why Smaller Models May Work Better? Why Incumbents with Data Power Win the AI War with Christian Kleinerman, SVP Product @ Snowflake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  2. “He is very clear what the needed outcome or this outcome is. So it's a clear thinker would be the attribute. And then he can relentlessly drive towards it and not get encumbered by all the hundred reasons that we all make up for ourselves.”

    2023-09-22 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Are Foundation Models Becoming Commoditised? Do OpenAI and Anthropic of the World Have a Sustaining Moat? Why Smaller Models May Work Better? Why Incumbents with Data Power Win the AI War with Christian Kleinerman, SVP Product @ Snowflake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  3. “I was super wrong when Satya came into the enterprise business this before he was CEO. He came in in very short order made a lot of really difficult decisions, how the org was structured, how contractors were hired, how we thought about the cloud versus the on-premises products. And at the time, my thinking was like, I don't think that he understands all of this. And obviously with the benefit of hindsight, actually shortly after, it was very clear he understood it better than all of us. he's proven to be a brilliant leader.”

    2023-09-22 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Are Foundation Models Becoming Commoditised? Do OpenAI and Anthropic of the World Have a Sustaining Moat? Why Smaller Models May Work Better? Why Incumbents with Data Power Win the AI War with Christian Kleinerman, SVP Product @ Snowflake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  4. “It is something a little bit counterintuitive that you may put out a product faster if you just say, I don't know if we should be used this way or that way, so you just surface choices to users. And sometimes it takes longer for us to take the automatic choice and simplify for customers. So it may be counterintuitive that faster is not necessarily better if simpler is what is being traded off.”

    2023-09-22 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Are Foundation Models Becoming Commoditised? Do OpenAI and Anthropic of the World Have a Sustaining Moat? Why Smaller Models May Work Better? Why Incumbents with Data Power Win the AI War with Christian Kleinerman, SVP Product @ Snowflake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  5. “There is amazing talent throughout the world, even though the valley has something special from the community and the ability to bounce ideas of one another. It's very clear when others, a lot of innovation happening elsewhere.”

    2023-09-22 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Are Foundation Models Becoming Commoditised? Do OpenAI and Anthropic of the World Have a Sustaining Moat? Why Smaller Models May Work Better? Why Incumbents with Data Power Win the AI War with Christian Kleinerman, SVP Product @ Snowflake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  6. “I think it depends on the nature of a technology or the nature of the product. At Snowflake, we have both types of technology. The core subsystem that does clustering of data on disk, I think you want to design that thing really, really well, measure 100 times and cut once because nobody wants their data to get corrupted or their results to be wrong if that thing is not built the right way. But if you want the UI for a query editor and you have 10 different ways on how you could do suggestions for customers, there's no right and wrong might as well go quickly, iterate, learn from users. Both are the right tools and the right approaches depending on what you're trying to do.”

    2023-09-22 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Are Foundation Models Becoming Commoditised? Do OpenAI and Anthropic of the World Have a Sustaining Moat? Why Smaller Models May Work Better? Why Incumbents with Data Power Win the AI War with Christian Kleinerman, SVP Product @ Snowflake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  7. “I've been more willing to push opinions in a slightly more top-down way as more time has gone by. Earlier on, it was, I need to be a great manager and listen to everyone and accommodate everyone's opinion. And I'm not trying to say that's not important. But in some instances where you want a product to come out with a consistent view as if it came from a single unified set of principles and individuals, sometimes you had to go and push for something like, hey, this is what we're doing. I think that confidence comes or evolves over time.”

    2023-09-22 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Are Foundation Models Becoming Commoditised? Do OpenAI and Anthropic of the World Have a Sustaining Moat? Why Smaller Models May Work Better? Why Incumbents with Data Power Win the AI War with Christian Kleinerman, SVP Product @ Snowflake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  8. “It's exactly the point. Go look at Salesforce will be CRM for a long time. ServiceNow is the ticket company. So it sticks around for a while.”

    2023-09-22 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Are Foundation Models Becoming Commoditised? Do OpenAI and Anthropic of the World Have a Sustaining Moat? Why Smaller Models May Work Better? Why Incumbents with Data Power Win the AI War with Christian Kleinerman, SVP Product @ Snowflake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  9. “When you're very successful with some positioning, that comes and bites you later that you are too successful with that positioning. And for many years we said Snowflake is the data warehouse built for the cloud and that still keeps getting repeated over and over. And it's a journey. If you think about most companies end up stuck with their original use case for a long time, we see a little bit of that here.”

    2023-09-22 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Are Foundation Models Becoming Commoditised? Do OpenAI and Anthropic of the World Have a Sustaining Moat? Why Smaller Models May Work Better? Why Incumbents with Data Power Win the AI War with Christian Kleinerman, SVP Product @ Snowflake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  10. “Probably perception. I talk to folks on a regular basis, and many of them still think of us as data warehousing. We expand it from those origins six years ago. We need to make sure that organizations across the world understand that they can do AI and Gen AI close to the data within Snowflake without having to copy the data to a different platform.”

    2023-09-22 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Are Foundation Models Becoming Commoditised? Do OpenAI and Anthropic of the World Have a Sustaining Moat? Why Smaller Models May Work Better? Why Incumbents with Data Power Win the AI War with Christian Kleinerman, SVP Product @ Snowflake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  11. “I would say that for certain use cases, that's entirely true. If I have a UI to configure a cluster, I don't need to know all the options, I just can specify what I want. But I would say there are many use cases where you may want a richer way to interact with data or with whatever is the problem space that I don't think Gen AI would dramatically change it. It does continue to help with personalization. And we've been on the journey of personalization for a long time. So I would say, yes, some use cases shifts the value of UI, but many others has the opportunity to continue to enrich them.”

    2023-09-22 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Are Foundation Models Becoming Commoditised? Do OpenAI and Anthropic of the World Have a Sustaining Moat? Why Smaller Models May Work Better? Why Incumbents with Data Power Win the AI War with Christian Kleinerman, SVP Product @ Snowflake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  12. “All of this is harder than people realize. The demos are awesome. The productization takes longer time. So I would say all of us should go forward as fast as we can because there's going to be natural difficulties that will just throttle us. I also, as I mentioned earlier, I don't think that it's a mass firings happening next week. It's more hopefully incremental productivity boosts happening over the next six, 12, 24 months. And then over time, you decide whether you take those productivity gains and you turn into fewer employees versus more productively deployed employees.”

    2023-09-22 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Are Foundation Models Becoming Commoditised? Do OpenAI and Anthropic of the World Have a Sustaining Moat? Why Smaller Models May Work Better? Why Incumbents with Data Power Win the AI War with Christian Kleinerman, SVP Product @ Snowflake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  13. “Hosted cloud services, in which case, in the same way that it is true with open source, I think it's going to be true about open weights. I have no idea if it matters or not. At the end of the day, who has the best answers or the best service integrated for customers?”

    2023-09-22 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Are Foundation Models Becoming Commoditised? Do OpenAI and Anthropic of the World Have a Sustaining Moat? Why Smaller Models May Work Better? Why Incumbents with Data Power Win the AI War with Christian Kleinerman, SVP Product @ Snowflake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  14. “I think there is nuance on what open means. Usually it refers to the weights of a model are available. But beyond that, there are questions on are there use case restrictions? For example, Lamatu is very significant as a development in the industry, but they were very clear thou shalt not use Lamatou for training other models. Thou shalt not use Lamatou for, I think it's 700 million user use cases. So you can say, is that fully open or not? And sure, because the weights are available, you can say meet the Breitland definition, but there are other items that define what is more or less open. I do think that open weights creates a lot of opportunity for research and further innovation. Much has been said of how much excitement and interest is happening around the open model. So from that perspective, I think there's a lot of value of those models. But I also think that commercial solutions will largely be”

    2023-09-22 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Are Foundation Models Becoming Commoditised? Do OpenAI and Anthropic of the World Have a Sustaining Moat? Why Smaller Models May Work Better? Why Incumbents with Data Power Win the AI War with Christian Kleinerman, SVP Product @ Snowflake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  15. “I would bias towards incumbents that have the data. Think of all the data that a company like Google has. That's public data or semi-public, but a lot of user data. Think all the private enterprise data that company like Snowflake has. And that's probably a self-serving comment. But I do think that data is what powers outcomes. Those are going to be the companies that at least are best positioned. But to make things harder is, I think all of the folks that have data are creating platforms for startups and others to come and leverage that data and deliver innovation. So it's complicated, but I would bias towards the incumbents.”

    2023-09-22 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Are Foundation Models Becoming Commoditised? Do OpenAI and Anthropic of the World Have a Sustaining Moat? Why Smaller Models May Work Better? Why Incumbents with Data Power Win the AI War with Christian Kleinerman, SVP Product @ Snowflake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  16. “100% two examples one again from last week IBM was announcing their own gen AI models and they were talking about being fully transparent on the data that went into the models that's a big step in lineage the other one is talking about how they trained it so they're in tune with this concern and they want to surface it in a more open way the other example is at Snowflake we acquired this company Neva that was doing consumer search based or augmented by LLMs and a lot of the principles that they had when they created this product was you want to have citations and quotations and attribution of even if it's a summary every snippet what was the source that it came from which is a way to control for hallucination so that is the world that we're headed towards at least in the enterprise forget the creative side of things but at least in the in the world where you need correct answers you need to be able to attribute where things came from”

    2023-09-22 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Are Foundation Models Becoming Commoditised? Do OpenAI and Anthropic of the World Have a Sustaining Moat? Why Smaller Models May Work Better? Why Incumbents with Data Power Win the AI War with Christian Kleinerman, SVP Product @ Snowflake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  17. “The use case conversation is difficult. Much has been said, oh, don't worry about it. Most of the bad things that you can do with Gen AI are already regulated and illegal, so nothing new. But I do think that there are entire categories of work products that we need to go think through. What does that mean”

    2023-09-22 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Are Foundation Models Becoming Commoditised? Do OpenAI and Anthropic of the World Have a Sustaining Moat? Why Smaller Models May Work Better? Why Incumbents with Data Power Win the AI War with Christian Kleinerman, SVP Product @ Snowflake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  18. “I think it alleviates a faction of customers in a category of concerns. I don't think it takes care of all of it. There are opinions out there on, does copyright law even apply to Gen AI? And it's a fascinating debate, but I think the standing by folks from a copyright perspective is a step forward.”

    2023-09-22 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Are Foundation Models Becoming Commoditised? Do OpenAI and Anthropic of the World Have a Sustaining Moat? Why Smaller Models May Work Better? Why Incumbents with Data Power Win the AI War with Christian Kleinerman, SVP Product @ Snowflake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  19. “Because enterprises are worried about if they incorporate Gen AI into any of their products or services in a way that they truly depend on them. And at some point, lawsuits start to fly everywhere. They're exposed. And because of those concerns, it has held back enterprises. So Microsoft Statement is immaterial in alleviating those concerns that are very real. I talk to people every week and those are real concerns.”

    2023-09-22 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Are Foundation Models Becoming Commoditised? Do OpenAI and Anthropic of the World Have a Sustaining Moat? Why Smaller Models May Work Better? Why Incumbents with Data Power Win the AI War with Christian Kleinerman, SVP Product @ Snowflake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  20. “I do think that some of these statements about public web data owners changing licenses or potentially licensing the data gives one path forward. There's been interesting developments in the last week or so Microsoft saying that they'll stand by customers from a copyright perspective. That was meaningful.”

    2023-09-22 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Are Foundation Models Becoming Commoditised? Do OpenAI and Anthropic of the World Have a Sustaining Moat? Why Smaller Models May Work Better? Why Incumbents with Data Power Win the AI War with Christian Kleinerman, SVP Product @ Snowflake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  21. “Their platforms where it's easy to bring LLMs to the data as opposed to send large data volumes to where the LLMs are. That's where you see Amazon has new services to do this. Microsoft obviously has it with Azure OpenAI. The trend is create private and secure endpoints that can run close to your data and by implication not only don't have to move and copy a lot of data, but more important, there are some assurances on what is done with your data.”

    2023-09-22 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Are Foundation Models Becoming Commoditised? Do OpenAI and Anthropic of the World Have a Sustaining Moat? Why Smaller Models May Work Better? Why Incumbents with Data Power Win the AI War with Christian Kleinerman, SVP Product @ Snowflake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  22. “There are a lot of issues. Probably the most obvious one is around the correctness and dependability of answers. If you ask folks one of the key concerns is like, oh, these models make up stuff. So that is the obvious one. But then there are second order issues, maybe less obvious for people, which is security and privacy of data, the data that is used for the question. And then there are even more complex questions on the rights to the answers. A Wall Street company asked me if we feed a number of portfolio trading strategies into a model and it makes a recommendation and the recommendation makes money. Could anyone have claims on that answer? And it gets very complicated very quickly.”

    2023-09-22 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Are Foundation Models Becoming Commoditised? Do OpenAI and Anthropic of the World Have a Sustaining Moat? Why Smaller Models May Work Better? Why Incumbents with Data Power Win the AI War with Christian Kleinerman, SVP Product @ Snowflake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  23. “Well, you you'd want to be able to plug in different models, but it's not just replace the model and use everything else the same. Certain models respond different to a specific type of prompt. In the same way that you have a hardware abstraction layer or a cloud abstraction layer, you should have a model abstraction layer that knows how to translate a specific request that your application needs to do to a model with its intrinsic or specific characteristics.”

    2023-09-22 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Are Foundation Models Becoming Commoditised? Do OpenAI and Anthropic of the World Have a Sustaining Moat? Why Smaller Models May Work Better? Why Incumbents with Data Power Win the AI War with Christian Kleinerman, SVP Product @ Snowflake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  24. “100% agree there is so much innovation in the landscape of models that anyone that builds too tightly coupled to a given model is sort of giving up optionality for the future. I just came back from Japan two days ago and a big recommendation I was doing in a large forum was make sure that you build optionality into which model you're leveraging. Even though it's easier to learn the ins and outs of a single model, I think the optionality matters especially. There's way too much change in innovation going on.”

    2023-09-22 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Are Foundation Models Becoming Commoditised? Do OpenAI and Anthropic of the World Have a Sustaining Moat? Why Smaller Models May Work Better? Why Incumbents with Data Power Win the AI War with Christian Kleinerman, SVP Product @ Snowflake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  25. “Depends on how you define a model. If you say Lama and Lama 2 are the same model, then yes, all of them will continue to be used for a while. If you pin a specific version, yeah, for sure there will be new versions of any of those models, cloud, cloud two, et cetera. But the reality is there will be new models and new refinements on an envoying basis.”

    2023-09-22 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Are Foundation Models Becoming Commoditised? Do OpenAI and Anthropic of the World Have a Sustaining Moat? Why Smaller Models May Work Better? Why Incumbents with Data Power Win the AI War with Christian Kleinerman, SVP Product @ Snowflake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  26. “Sure, like all of this, the computing is trending down. But the other piece is there's a lot of reinvention of the core training. If you think about how many of the data sets and data sources are common between all the foundation models out there, and they're going through the exact same processes or very similar processes, are there ways to take a common subset and then you just fine-tune on top of it and avoid the cost? I think we've seen reasonably good results under that path. I do think that both”

    2023-09-22 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Are Foundation Models Becoming Commoditised? Do OpenAI and Anthropic of the World Have a Sustaining Moat? Why Smaller Models May Work Better? Why Incumbents with Data Power Win the AI War with Christian Kleinerman, SVP Product @ Snowflake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  27. “And as I was mentioning, startups, one of the companies that I talked to was working entirely on model compression only to improve latency and cost. So I think there's research and development on both. Sure, the compute is getting faster and cheaper, but smaller models are better. If you want to have one or more model calls in the serving path of a consumer product, you have a budget of a few milliseconds to go make things happen and size will matter.”

    2023-09-22 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Are Foundation Models Becoming Commoditised? Do OpenAI and Anthropic of the World Have a Sustaining Moat? Why Smaller Models May Work Better? Why Incumbents with Data Power Win the AI War with Christian Kleinerman, SVP Product @ Snowflake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  28. “I think it depends on the use case. For a generic consumer product like ChatGPT, where anything is fair game, the model is supposed to know about every possible topic, it speaks every language, et cetera. I would say that for those use cases, a model that is large and has lots of cumulative knowledge is very valuable. For specialized use cases, which is what I see more in the enterprise, model matters less model size. If anything, model size will influence things like cost and latency. So smaller may be better. And now there's plenty of examples that have been run where a smaller model fine-tuned for a specific purpose or a specific data set produces results better than a generic model. So it's use case dependent.”

    2023-09-22 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Are Foundation Models Becoming Commoditised? Do OpenAI and Anthropic of the World Have a Sustaining Moat? Why Smaller Models May Work Better? Why Incumbents with Data Power Win the AI War with Christian Kleinerman, SVP Product @ Snowflake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  29. “Core technology application of existing models, I think there's innovation everywhere. There will be a number of new startups creating new things and probably the OpenAIS Ananthropics are continuing their innovation. Those are effectively research companies.”

    2023-09-22 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Are Foundation Models Becoming Commoditised? Do OpenAI and Anthropic of the World Have a Sustaining Moat? Why Smaller Models May Work Better? Why Incumbents with Data Power Win the AI War with Christian Kleinerman, SVP Product @ Snowflake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  30. “I think there are many categories. There are some very shallow rappers on top of a GPT-4. I don't place much value on them. I usually ask, hey, how long did it take you to build this? Oftentimes it's a week or two. I don't think there's a company there. I do think that there are some very deep rappers on top of GPT-4 that apply domain specific, legal, or other domain that I think you end up with a true way to bring GPT forward to a given market or industry. I think those are value. But my comment on startups was there are actually many startups chasing the different aspects of innovation on the core technology. I was at a dinner a few weeks ago and someone was saying we're trying to blend fine-tuning with prompting. Someone else was saying we're trying to address the limitations of the transformer model. Someone else was trying to look at how to do computer vision better. So once you start looking at Bitcoin.”

    2023-09-22 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Are Foundation Models Becoming Commoditised? Do OpenAI and Anthropic of the World Have a Sustaining Moat? Why Smaller Models May Work Better? Why Incumbents with Data Power Win the AI War with Christian Kleinerman, SVP Product @ Snowflake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  31. “I'm pretty sure all of them are chasing that. I don't know for a fact, but I'm willing to venture that they are definitely chasing those innovations. What we're seeing right now has generated such a big spur of creativity. Most new startups getting created somehow they all want to chase some aspect of the Geni revolution. So maybe it's a hybrid of both.”

    2023-09-22 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Are Foundation Models Becoming Commoditised? Do OpenAI and Anthropic of the World Have a Sustaining Moat? Why Smaller Models May Work Better? Why Incumbents with Data Power Win the AI War with Christian Kleinerman, SVP Product @ Snowflake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  32. “What has happened for language models is coming for computer vision for images. Democratization, how do you simplify it? Then there's the intersection of those true multimodal languages, which there are many of them out there, but how do you turn into it's completely seamless to go and intersect images, speech, text, all of it into richer human-computer interface?”

    2023-09-22 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Are Foundation Models Becoming Commoditised? Do OpenAI and Anthropic of the World Have a Sustaining Moat? Why Smaller Models May Work Better? Why Incumbents with Data Power Win the AI War with Christian Kleinerman, SVP Product @ Snowflake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  33. “If you look at it where things are today or where they were six months ago, maybe models would have taken a bigger edge because they paved the way on how do you model the data. You could make the case data has been there all along. But I would stick to the 10% or the smaller number because now you see how many foundation models are being created. We've seen companies that with seven employees have creating models that are comparable for some use cases to what OpenAI or Anthropic do. At the end of the day, it's a data problem. And model, these are strong words, but I think they're getting commoditized until the next big innovation comes and you allocate some more value to the model.”

    2023-09-22 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Are Foundation Models Becoming Commoditised? Do OpenAI and Anthropic of the World Have a Sustaining Moat? Why Smaller Models May Work Better? Why Incumbents with Data Power Win the AI War with Christian Kleinerman, SVP Product @ Snowflake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  34. “Vast majority goes to data 90 plus percent. Certainly, there is a lot of IP and technology that has gone into how do you build these models, but that is becoming less a differentiating aspect and what's becoming bigger is data. If anything, you hear folks doing the math on are we going to run out of public data to improve these models significantly.”

    2023-09-22 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Are Foundation Models Becoming Commoditised? Do OpenAI and Anthropic of the World Have a Sustaining Moat? Why Smaller Models May Work Better? Why Incumbents with Data Power Win the AI War with Christian Kleinerman, SVP Product @ Snowflake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  35. “I don't know if they're going to be able to keep all the existing revenue, but for sure they should be able to capture some amount of revenue. But clearly, their data is valuable. Right now it's not being paid for that says that there's a value gap there. And you see in some of the license terms that are being floated around, I think it will shift. So then it changes the economics of all this.”

    2023-09-22 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Are Foundation Models Becoming Commoditised? Do OpenAI and Anthropic of the World Have a Sustaining Moat? Why Smaller Models May Work Better? Why Incumbents with Data Power Win the AI War with Christian Kleinerman, SVP Product @ Snowflake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  36. “Yeah, I would separate there is both public data and private data, privately owned by enterprises. But the premise of your question is based on public data. And I would say if things did not change, probably the language models or the models in general would all converge towards they're all training on the same data and at some point this what mix of data you use, but you'll trend towards”

    2023-09-22 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Are Foundation Models Becoming Commoditised? Do OpenAI and Anthropic of the World Have a Sustaining Moat? Why Smaller Models May Work Better? Why Incumbents with Data Power Win the AI War with Christian Kleinerman, SVP Product @ Snowflake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  37. “If you think of the role of traditional business intelligence technology, it was to sort of bridge the impedance mismatch between the business and business terminology and business users and a technology that frankly is just for a few people. Like writing SQL statements is not something that most people in a company do. And that was the role of that technology to do that translation, but it still required some mapping and curation and effectively how do you inform that impediment mismatch. I think Gen AI has the opportunity to reproch this type of translation where the language is natural language and the answers come in natural language, but along the way there's traditional database lookups, traditional retrieval. And it has the opportunity to democratize data dramatically more than where we are today. Another BI has not done a really good job, but I think it's going to be now data for everyone.”

    2023-09-22 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Are Foundation Models Becoming Commoditised? Do OpenAI and Anthropic of the World Have a Sustaining Moat? Why Smaller Models May Work Better? Why Incumbents with Data Power Win the AI War with Christian Kleinerman, SVP Product @ Snowflake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  38. “I think it may be true that once we're ready to wholly replace nurses and other functions, probably there's an incentive problem, but I don't think that we're there yet. I think of most of the use cases right now are around productivity boost or assistance, co-pilots, as opposed to replacement. So think of it as I want to help people be more productive, not wholesale replace. So at this point, I would say the incentives should be working maybe a year, a couple of years from now, what you're saying becomes true.”

    2023-09-22 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Are Foundation Models Becoming Commoditised? Do OpenAI and Anthropic of the World Have a Sustaining Moat? Why Smaller Models May Work Better? Why Incumbents with Data Power Win the AI War with Christian Kleinerman, SVP Product @ Snowflake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  39. “I think it completely correlates with data maturity. You may have heard some of us at Snowflake talk about there's no AI or gen AI strategy without a data strategy. It's not just a line. It's a truth that we strongly believe in. From that perspective, I would say financial services are at the forefront. Most of the financials have figured out for a long time how to organize data and leverage data for competitive advantages. Go look at the sophistication of hedge funds as an example. For retail and CPG companies have also been very wise at using data. Who would be on the slowest to adopt? Maybe I would point at public sector. Not that they're not data savvy, but they have a lot of regulation and constraints that may make it harder for them to adopt.”

    2023-09-22 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Are Foundation Models Becoming Commoditised? Do OpenAI and Anthropic of the World Have a Sustaining Moat? Why Smaller Models May Work Better? Why Incumbents with Data Power Win the AI War with Christian Kleinerman, SVP Product @ Snowflake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  40. “I agree part of it is services implementation, education, but I also think that the stack and the way to think about this is evolving. I don't think that we have a very clean, this is the three or four components that you use and this is the type of use case that you apply. Companies are playing with, hey, the LLM is magical and you send it to questions and magic answers come back. Some others have a combined vector retrieval with LLMs. But within that, there's a lot of variability. Which model, which database, or which vector database? How much do you prompt versus fine-tune? So I would say a lot of that is still being figured out. I think the stack continues to evolve, will continue to mature. And in parallel, okay, then company need to get educated on when to use what for what use case.”

    2023-09-22 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Are Foundation Models Becoming Commoditised? Do OpenAI and Anthropic of the World Have a Sustaining Moat? Why Smaller Models May Work Better? Why Incumbents with Data Power Win the AI War with Christian Kleinerman, SVP Product @ Snowflake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  41. “I would say that this is a real shot in the arm to the creative businesses. That's where we saw the initial use cases and stable diffusion or mid-journey and those things in many ways because what in other industries we would call a bug or a hallucination in the creative world, there are features. It's a goodness to come up with something that has not been done before or it's a mix and match of existing things. So creative industries are probably the sweetest spot. I love what Adobe has been doing with their products and how they've integrated Gen AI. Massive kudos to them. Then there's the opportunity in every other industry, in every other vertical. It's only that requires a little bit of understanding, correctness, understanding, data maturity, things like that. But every customer that I talk to these days, they're looking into doing something. They're all trying to figure out how to get started and how to get there. But I think it applies to alternative businesses.”

    2023-09-22 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Are Foundation Models Becoming Commoditised? Do OpenAI and Anthropic of the World Have a Sustaining Moat? Why Smaller Models May Work Better? Why Incumbents with Data Power Win the AI War with Christian Kleinerman, SVP Product @ Snowflake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  42. “I think it's comparable. I think it's on a scale of the internet. I think it's on the scale of mobile. One of those things where anything and everything will get better.”

    2023-09-22 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Are Foundation Models Becoming Commoditised? Do OpenAI and Anthropic of the World Have a Sustaining Moat? Why Smaller Models May Work Better? Why Incumbents with Data Power Win the AI War with Christian Kleinerman, SVP Product @ Snowflake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  43. “I would say that for sure there is hype. For sure there's a FOMO on what are you doing on Gen AI and people are rushing to somehow stitch some Gen AI to their products. But if you look past that, there is fundamental innovation there. There is fundamental disruption. There is the opportunity to change pretty much every single interaction between humans and computers into something that is friendlier and simpler. So yes, there's fog and there's noise around it, but it will clear up and at the end of the day it's going to be a different world.”

    2023-09-22 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Are Foundation Models Becoming Commoditised? Do OpenAI and Anthropic of the World Have a Sustaining Moat? Why Smaller Models May Work Better? Why Incumbents with Data Power Win the AI War with Christian Kleinerman, SVP Product @ Snowflake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  44. “The fundamentals of making something work is advertised make a very big difference. So simplicity is part of it, even things like latency make a big difference. So there's nothing like the magical experience of you try to use a product. And then whatever technology or a device or an appliance at home. And if it just simply works and does what it's expected, I think that is a magical thing. It's very hard to make happen in all situations, but that would be the big word of advice.”

    2023-09-22 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Are Foundation Models Becoming Commoditised? Do OpenAI and Anthropic of the World Have a Sustaining Moat? Why Smaller Models May Work Better? Why Incumbents with Data Power Win the AI War with Christian Kleinerman, SVP Product @ Snowflake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  45. “You'll say all things being equal, there are points where you will oversimplify, but I do think that make things as simple as possible and no more.”

    2023-09-22 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Are Foundation Models Becoming Commoditised? Do OpenAI and Anthropic of the World Have a Sustaining Moat? Why Smaller Models May Work Better? Why Incumbents with Data Power Win the AI War with Christian Kleinerman, SVP Product @ Snowflake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  46. “Sure, you need to have a good business model, you need to have good technology, but there are things that you can control.”

    2023-09-22 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Are Foundation Models Becoming Commoditised? Do OpenAI and Anthropic of the World Have a Sustaining Moat? Why Smaller Models May Work Better? Why Incumbents with Data Power Win the AI War with Christian Kleinerman, SVP Product @ Snowflake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  47. “Microsoft, I think I got the ease of use and value of simplicity in products. At the time, SQL Server was coming from way behind competing with market leaders that were at Oracle and IBM. And the way in was not to have every single feature and capability that those technologies had. It was just simplify things. If you turn something that is a subset of the capability, but dramatically easier to use, that gets a following. And that was a very, very clear lesson learned. And I've seen it over and over. And by the way, the Snowflake story follows a big part of that journey, which is if you simplify things to a point that it is delightful to use, people adopt. That's from the Microsoft time limiting from the YouTube time, maybe the biggest lesson learned. Consumer products have many more elements beyond just technical difficulty. There's a lot of timing. What are the trends with consumer behavior?”

    2023-09-22 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Are Foundation Models Becoming Commoditised? Do OpenAI and Anthropic of the World Have a Sustaining Moat? Why Smaller Models May Work Better? Why Incumbents with Data Power Win the AI War with Christian Kleinerman, SVP Product @ Snowflake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  48. “I would say talent being the driver of truly great outcomes. I would say don't ever compromise on talent. Don't ever say, yeah, this person doesn't have a background, but maybe has the right intention, just take a bet. No, I think that nothing substitutes talent. That's a very clear lesson learned. And the other thing that has been very clear is building a scalable business is difficult. One of those startups, we built some scheduling software for airlines. The thesis was you build it once, works, then you just resell it, and you can be the next Microsoft. It was not the case. There was a lot of customization. It would turn out into more of a services business. So scalability and building platforms was another lesson learned.”

    2023-09-22 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Are Foundation Models Becoming Commoditised? Do OpenAI and Anthropic of the World Have a Sustaining Moat? Why Smaller Models May Work Better? Why Incumbents with Data Power Win the AI War with Christian Kleinerman, SVP Product @ Snowflake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  49. “Thank you for having me here, Harry. Born and raised in Colombia and South America, I did a startup there. I learned what not to do. I did another startup in the US. I learned what else not to do. So at some point I need to learn from the guys that really know how to build software. This is 1999. I joined Microsoft, did a long stint in data all the time, SQL Server. Appliance is one appliance is worth the thing to build. And then cloud services. And from then, I went over to YouTube at Google, where I was responsible for the infrastructure, including data systems. And I think all of that set me up for understanding data, being a data junkie when the opportunity opened up for Snowflake. I'm like, I could appreciate the technology and the type of company. So I'm like, I'm ready to be there.”

    2023-09-22 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Are Foundation Models Becoming Commoditised? Do OpenAI and Anthropic of the World Have a Sustaining Moat? Why Smaller Models May Work Better? Why Incumbents with Data Power Win the AI War with Christian Kleinerman, SVP Product @ Snowflake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  50. “We've seen companies with seven employees creating models that are comparable for some use cases to what OpenAI or Anthropic do. At the end of the day, it's a data problem. And model, they're getting commoditized until the next big innovation comes and you allocate some more value to the model. If anything, model size will influence things like cost and latency. So smaller may be better.”

    2023-09-22 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: Are Foundation Models Becoming Commoditised? Do OpenAI and Anthropic of the World Have a Sustaining Moat? Why Smaller Models May Work Better? Why Incumbents with Data Power Win the AI War with Christian Kleinerman, SVP Product @ Snowflake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source