YouSaid · the spoken record

Christopher Leonard

lines on the record: 70
first: 2022-01-07
most recent: 2022-01-07
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

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“Yeah, it's just fascinating. I mean, Charles Koch has this like well-known saying that the only whale that gets harpooned is the one that comes to the surface. And it's kind of a joke in the sense that with his political team, I know I've interviewed folks up and down all the levels of his political team. They operate below the surface. And this really borrows directly from the corporate playbook I just told about of strategic secrecy. And I think Charles Koch has a very detailed granular view of the machinery of government in the United States. And he's very smart about how to approach that, how to hit the pressure points, you know, where there's good opportunities to buy low, sell high to gain a foothold, to push your agenda. And by that, I mean, you know, getting out into the state government level where you can get a state seat and a state house or state.”
2022-01-07 · We Study Billionaires · TIP411: How the Federal Reserve Broke the American Economy w/ Christopher Leonard · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“When the history is written, I think that will be a key part of his legacy. And also, you know, I think within the business community, his corporation will be a case study in corporate management that'll probably be looked back upon for a long time.”
2022-01-07 · We Study Billionaires · TIP411: How the Federal Reserve Broke the American Economy w/ Christopher Leonard · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“you know the the actual legacy he left behind is going to be complicated by the one topic we've we've not talked about which is politics you know um he really does think he he understands the blueprint for how society should organize itself and he hasn't been shy at all in trying to to make that vision a reality he's been very politically engaged for decades and and that's going to be a key part of the history that's that's written about him and and the thing that really rises to the top on that this isn't going to surprise any of your guests i think is his stance around global warming and around the fossil fuels industry which is just key to coke industry's long-term profitability over the decades he's fought very very hard against any kind of government regulation to either hinder fossil fuel emissions or put a price on carbon emissions”
2022-01-07 · We Study Billionaires · TIP411: How the Federal Reserve Broke the American Economy w/ Christopher Leonard · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Okay, I mean, I feel like I can answer the latter part pretty easily. I think he wants his legacy to be, I think he wants to be seen. And not to be cheesy, but kind of a philosopher king. Again, the guy has published three books about his own personal history, his management philosophy. I think he wants to be seen as a deep thinker in terms of corporate affairs.”
2022-01-07 · We Study Billionaires · TIP411: How the Federal Reserve Broke the American Economy w/ Christopher Leonard · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Is what's going wrong, a symptom of a much deeper problem, or is this a downside in the market? Does this present us an opportunity to buy? And so I see this real kind of engineering mindset and a long-term strategy that's, I think at the core of his success.”
2022-01-07 · We Study Billionaires · TIP411: How the Federal Reserve Broke the American Economy w/ Christopher Leonard · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It's this thing of having the mind of the engineer. Charles Koch is almost dispassionate, right? He's a nice guy. He's charming. He's folksy. He makes you feel comfortable in a room, but he's not Mr. Go Out and Get Beers with the team and slap you on the back kind of guy. He's analytical. And again, focused with this strategy that's long term. And he's really not battered by the ups and downs of markets. And I think that comes from working in the energy industry for so many decades where the volatility can just be gut-wrenching. And so, you know, for his management style, he's always focused on how this is going to benefit the company over a period of one, two, five, ten years. And if you come into the office and you've had an absolutely like catastrophic quarter, there's not going to be yelling, slamming fists on the table. It's going to be more of like, okay.”
2022-01-07 · We Study Billionaires · TIP411: How the Federal Reserve Broke the American Economy w/ Christopher Leonard · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Relentless and obsessive drive to achieve. And that's one of the biggest mysteries to me of this guy. He was born quite wealthy. He became sort of almost incomprehensibly wealthy. Like you could never spend all the money he makes, but he still shows up at work before the sun is up many times. And this is a guy who has been just relentlessly focused on pushing and growing this company to make it as large and successful as possible and to be truly unwavering in that mission. I mean, I think that that's the most important thing is the internal motivation, direction, and obsession on the work. That's one of the things that hits me most. And then second, when this is a little bit more specific to Coke Industries and what they”
2022-01-07 · We Study Billionaires · TIP411: How the Federal Reserve Broke the American Economy w/ Christopher Leonard · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Fascinating to me, this dilemma that Charles Koch faces when he writes about it, because secrecy is key to this corporation. They get a lot of black eyes in the media for being this sort of opaque and secretive organization. Frankly, a lot of that's true. But it's not just because they're trying to do something nefarious. It's because the whole key to this company's success is knowing more than your competitors know about markets. So you can trade well. So you can buy and sell other companies well. And when that's your major strategy, don't show your cards. Secrecy is strategic. So when Charles Koch tries to write about market-based management, I can read it. I've read all of his books, frankly, several times and interviewed people in the company. You can see how he's got to kind of hold back. He can't really talk about what they're doing because it would give away too much of their information. And so I think that's kind of.”
2022-01-07 · We Study Billionaires · TIP411: How the Federal Reserve Broke the American Economy w/ Christopher Leonard · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“The heart of their oil refining, their natural gas production, their nitrogen fertilizer plants, their Georgia Pacific plants, you know, a lot of those skills and mindsets don't export to like a newspaper or a clothing retailer. But also”
2022-01-07 · We Study Billionaires · TIP411: How the Federal Reserve Broke the American Economy w/ Christopher Leonard · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“That's one of the interesting things. It has not zero outside adoption as far as I've been able to determine. It's not like there's this playbook getting used in different companies. And frankly, I think that's something that kind of frustrates Charles Koch. I mean, as you mentioned, he's sort of getting into the twilight of his years. You know, he's working past 20 years past the age when many people retire. And you can see he's very focused on sort of trying to package and export this philosophy. He's written at least three books, commercially published books about market-based management. But first of all, it's very difficult to export Coke's secret sauce. I mean, this is a very specific company with very specific capabilities and skills that are difficult to export. Okay, Coke is extremely good processing raw material. Okay, that's kind of what's”
2022-01-07 · We Study Billionaires · TIP411: How the Federal Reserve Broke the American Economy w/ Christopher Leonard · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Got to have people in the natural gas unit versus people who make particle board versus people who are trading commodities all feel like they're part of a unified whole. And it seems, you know, again, like kind of a clich ⁇, but to have everyone speak in the same language and kind of having the same point of view really helps unify the team. And I think that that's one of the most powerful things of the whole philosophy.”
2022-01-07 · We Study Billionaires · TIP411: How the Federal Reserve Broke the American Economy w/ Christopher Leonard · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Research into the fundamental factors driving the market. And I'm going to develop a view of what the world is like with the very concrete goal that I'm going to go out into the markets and trade on that point of view, which should be superior to that of my competitors. In other words, I should have a sharper, clearer understanding of how the world works. So you've got all these guys walking around, men and women, I'm sorry, all these guys and gals inside Coke industries walking around using these terms like point of view and mental model. And to me, the biggest effect of this philosophy, you know, while it is effective, I think, on the ex and O's, on the tactical reality it's effective, but it's very powerful, very powerful in creating a common vocabulary and the sense that people inside Coke are rowing the boat in the same direction. And that's really important with a company like this, which is so diversified.”
2022-01-07 · We Study Billionaires · TIP411: How the Federal Reserve Broke the American Economy w/ Christopher Leonard · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Ideally, I should be gaining more and more authority, more and more responsibility, or within this structure, kind of more property. They think of themselves as like property owner with a growing role, you know, more money at my disposal to trade. And that's one example of how this is supposed to work. But it's got this sort of encoded vocabulary. And it's how these people think. Like, for example, they talk about mental models, humility and point of view. And these things kind of sound like cliches, but they have strategic and specific meaning inside Coke. Like when I talk about my point of view, I don't just mean like Chris Leonard's thoughts, feelings, and political ideology. I mean, like, this is my sharp analysis of where I think the market is today. That's my quote point of view. And I'm going to back it up with a lot of”
2022-01-07 · We Study Billionaires · TIP411: How the Federal Reserve Broke the American Economy w/ Christopher Leonard · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It begs the question of how effective is it, how real is it? Here's what it looks like. Let's say I get hired into Coke Industries as a commodities trader in Houston, Texas, okay, and I'm trading oil futures or oil supplies. Within the market-based management system, I'm seen as something like a small property owner. And I'm given a certain amount of responsibility, a certain amount of money that I can trade every day. And it's trying to synthesize a market environment. So if I do well, okay, if I'm making good trades, if I've got a”
2022-01-07 · We Study Billionaires · TIP411: How the Federal Reserve Broke the American Economy w/ Christopher Leonard · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“That dissolves old institutions and replaces them with new ones. And Charles Koch wanted to kind of codify this free market view into a management manual, right? Like the operating manual for Coke Industries. And that's this thing he calls market-based management. And he's been sort of refining this philosophy over the years. And, you know, if you got hired at Coke Industries today, you'd spend the first few days of your employment going through days-long seminars on how market-based management works. And the idea is you're encoding free market laws into corporate management.”
2022-01-07 · We Study Billionaires · TIP411: How the Federal Reserve Broke the American Economy w/ Christopher Leonard · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It's such an interesting thing. So, you know, as I said, Charles Cooks always maintained tight control over this corporation. And one of his, I mean, I'm just going to call one of his primary obsessions in life is writing a blueprint for how to manage a corporation. But it really does even go deeper than that. I mean, he feels like I think he's discovered the blueprint for how to run countries, nations, and societies. And it's all oriented around sort of free market beliefs, you know, competitive capitalism beliefs. His big role models would be Friedrich Hayek, Ludwig von Meisis, or von Mises. I always mispronounce that one. These Austrian economists who said that, you know, the best way to organize society is a capitalist market where you don't hold on to institutions, but there's this constant wheel of creative destruction.”
2022-01-07 · We Study Billionaires · TIP411: How the Federal Reserve Broke the American Economy w/ Christopher Leonard · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Unadulterated control over it and built a corporate colossus. And I think at the heart of what Charles Koch has done, what was most interesting to me is that this guy is a long-term strategic thinker. And a lot of what I talk about in the book is how he fought vehemently to keep control of the firm. He's kept it private all of these decades. He's plowed 90% or more of the profits back into the company to help it grow. And he's done all of that so he could always keep an eye on long-term strategy. You know, a horizon that's not measured in quarters or even years, but over many months, years, or even decades. Talk to us about.”
2022-01-07 · We Study Billionaires · TIP411: How the Federal Reserve Broke the American Economy w/ Christopher Leonard · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, it's a fascinating story. Charles Koch was born in Wichita, Kansas. He was one of four sons. And his dad, Fred Koch, was an entrepreneur, an engineer, and Fred Koch owned this company that was really an agglutination of a lot of different firms. He owned ranches. He owned engineering manufacturing facilities. He owned oil refineries. And to be honest, it was kind of a hodgepodge of industrial holdings. And I use the year 1967 because that was the year Fred Coke passed away. And Charles Koch was 32 years old at that time and had been made president of the family company. And he quickly reshaped it and renamed it as Coke Industries. And that's really where this modern company that we have today began. And over 50 years, Charles Koch was CEO of this company and really did have”
2022-01-07 · We Study Billionaires · TIP411: How the Federal Reserve Broke the American Economy w/ Christopher Leonard · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Trading desk that rivals anything on Wall Street. And so that's what drew me to this company in the first place is I just thought it'd be a great way to sort of do a portrait of American capitalism from 1967 to present day.”
2022-01-07 · We Study Billionaires · TIP411: How the Federal Reserve Broke the American Economy w/ Christopher Leonard · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, the books are actually tied together in interesting ways. I almost consider the Lords of Easy Money as part four of Cochland, which was a three-part book. And what drew me to Charles Coke was initially his corporation, Coke Industries, which is the second largest privately held company in America. It's just enormous. I mean, its annual sales were bigger than Goldman Sachs, U.S. steel, and Facebook combined. And it's just a huge company. But what really drew me to it was how diversified it is. And it seemed like just sort of a perfect vehicle to explore what has been going on in the American economy over the last 50 years because inside Coke industries, you've got blue-collar manufacturing, you've got raw material processing, the fossil fuels industry. You've got very high-end financial trading. Coke, it's not very well known, but they've built a financial”
2022-01-07 · We Study Billionaires · TIP411: How the Federal Reserve Broke the American Economy w/ Christopher Leonard · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT